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Pinnacle To Exercise 15 Q400 Options  
User currently offlineKingAir200 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1605 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3528 times:

I thought this was interesting. ATW says that Pinnacle plans to exercise 15 Q400 options and shop them around to their other mainline partners. I wonder if US, NW, and DL will be interested.

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=14287

[Edited 2008-10-08 06:42:35]


Hey Swifty
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2356 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3513 times:

I think it still is quite likely these airplanes will be for Colgan and go to Continental Connection. The response out of EWR to the airplane has been generally good, and I believe they ultimately want to expand the Q400 operation to IAH.

User currently offlineSean-SAN- From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 764 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3293 times:

I have doubts these will ever end up in the DL/NW opperation, the wingspan of the Q400 is too wide to fit in most of the old CRJ/Saab gates in MSP/DTW/MEM/ATL...

User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3281 times:

DL is parking regional aircraft at mainline gates in ATL and CVG. There is no shortage of room for these aircraft. DL has considered the Q400 in the past; whether they can make a deal with Pinnacle now remains to be seen.

User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3273 times:

Wow, buying airplanes without a customer for them lined up? That has to be one of the dumbest things I've heard in a long time, especially considering the market now where airlines are trying to reduce fleets, not increase them.

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22306 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3273 times:



Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 4):
That has to be one of the dumbest things I've heard in a long time, especially considering the market now where airlines are trying to reduce fleets, not increase them.

The Q400 might be one exception. DL has shown interest. UA has shown interest. CO already has them. AA may want more ~70 seat props.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineTys777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 404 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3266 times:



Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 4):
Wow, buying airplanes without a customer for them lined up? That has to be one of the dumbest things I've heard in a long time, especially considering the market now where airlines are trying to reduce fleets, not increase them.

It'll be fine...Alot of airlines would love to dump some ERJ/CRJ and pick up a more efficiant prop and thus helping them to turn a profit.



Is it bad that I get excited to see even a CRJ overfly? Man, what this place does to you
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3253 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD DATABASE EDITOR



Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 4):
Wow, buying airplanes without a customer for them lined up? That has to be one of the dumbest things I've heard in a long time

I suspect it won't be difficult to A) find buyers for the Q400s, and B) sell/lease them for a tidy profit.

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 4):
especially considering the market now where airlines are trying to reduce fleets, not increase them.

Airlines may be trying to reduce fleet size, but they're also trying to shift to more fuel-efficient aircraft. Which puts the Q400 in much higher demand than we saw prior to high fuel prices.

2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5229 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3253 times:

This might work in nicely with the announcement (on another thread) that QX is apparently attempting to defer 11 Q400 deliveries...

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4171021/

bb


User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3247 times:

As much as the Q400 may be a desirable aircraft, it is still flat out dumb to buy hundreds of million dollar airplanes (especially for a smaller airline like Pinnacle/Colgan) with nowhere guaranteed to put them. If things don't work out in their favor, they're going to end up with a ramp full of all-white Q400s destroying their balance sheet.

Something like this shouldn't be done unless you have all your ducks in a row for the whole plan from A to Z.


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9965 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3226 times:



Quoting Tys777 (Reply 6):
Alot of airlines would love to dump some ERJ/CRJ and pick up a more efficiant prop and thus helping them to turn a profit.

I think Skywest could use them to replace some of the RJ's and Brasilias.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3905 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3212 times:



Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 9):
As much as the Q400 may be a desirable aircraft, it is still flat out dumb to buy hundreds of million dollar airplanes (especially for a smaller airline like Pinnacle/Colgan) with nowhere guaranteed to put them. If things don't work out in their favor, they're going to end up with a ramp full of all-white Q400s destroying their balance sheet.

Something like this shouldn't be done unless you have all your ducks in a row for the whole plan from A to Z.

Hmmm, with that rationale all airlines would still be operating with a similar fleet size as in the 1950s and we would not have seen any start-ups in the past 50 years. No gain without taking any risks, me thinks. The Q400 is probably the safest bet for an US airline at this point as at a time when Fanny Mae, Lehman Bros. collapse, collapsing the regional jet mantra is no big deal any more.


User currently offlineERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3197 times:

I think US or UA should us them. Great aircraft for UA into ski markets from Denver.

Desmond in ILM,



Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently offlineCrjfixer From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3061 times:

These will operate under Colgan and from what i hear the will join the rest at CO connection

User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5639 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2985 times:



Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 4):
Wow, buying airplanes without a customer for them lined up? That has to be one of the dumbest things I've heard in a long time



Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 9):
it is still flat out dumb to buy hundreds of million dollar airplanes

You'd better fire off a quick email to the Pinnacle Board. They clearly aren't as intelligent as yourself.

P.S. I think you overestimate the expense of the Q400.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2953 times:



Quoting Crjfixer (Reply 13):
These will operate under Colgan and from what i hear the will join the rest at CO connection

That's the most likely destination, here's a quote from back in February;

Quote:
Colgan Airways has received the first two of 15 Q400s it has ordered for Continental Connection operations from Newark, and the airline has optioned another 15 from Bombardier to expand its fleet if the Newark operations grow as planned.

http://www.aviation.com/travel/08020...ental-connection-q400s-colgan.html

Another 15 Q-400s would bring the EWR operation up to 108-110 daily flights, this would be enough to replace every COEX regional jet flight from EWR under 550 miles with the larger more efficient Q-400. The Q-400 is competitive time wise and superior cost wise on routes up to 600 miles when compared with Regional Jets.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDeltaAVL From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1893 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2865 times:

Think ASA could use these to fill the ATR's gap?


"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9081 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2823 times:



Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 16):

Think ASA could use these to fill the ATR's gap?

Thats what I'm thinking.......12 ATRs leave 15 Q400s replace them......not a bad idea if you ask me. Though it would be DCI not EV.



yep.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22306 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2791 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 15):
The Q-400 is competitive time wise and superior cost wise on routes up to 600 miles when compared with Regional Jets.

Is that true with loads of 40 or 45 pax too?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2768 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 18):
Is that true with loads of 40 or 45 pax too?

The break even is thirty something.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22306 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2689 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 19):
The break even is thirty something.

Assuming what fare/yield?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3905 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2496 times:

Well, just ask Flybe. They have been replacing their inherited Embraer 145s with larger, but much more cost-effective Q400s as quickly as they could. Flybe keeps praising the Q400 whenever they can, and they use them on quite a few international routes on which they have jet competition from flag carriers.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2428 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 20):
Assuming what fare/yield?

This website offers some insightful content regarding the Q-400.

http://www.q400.com/q400/en/turbo.jsp



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22306 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2369 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 22):
This website offers some insightful content regarding the Q-400.

Thanks; that site is interesting but unfortunately completely useless for the question we're trying to answer (comparing them to 50-seaters at low loads).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineBI601BN From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2274 times:



Quote:
Flyf15 said:

As much as the Q400 may be a desirable aircraft, it is still flat out dumb to buy hundreds of million dollar airplanes (especially for a smaller airline like Pinnacle/Colgan) with nowhere guaranteed to put them. If things don't work out in their favor, they're going to end up with a ramp full of all-white Q400s destroying their balance sheet.

Something like this shouldn't be done unless you have all your ducks in a row for the whole plan from A to Z.

That's a rather bold judgement on a rather incomplete set of facts. It's always rather fun to point the negative finger at a company based on a soundbite rather than being mature enough to look deeper into the issue, isn't it?

If you had read the ATW story, you would have noticed the last line where it was stated that a definitive announcement would not be made until the customer (i.e. the Pinnacle customer or customers) says they'll take the aircraft. Words spoken by the President of Pinnacle. Sounds like he is saying they intend to have their "ducks in a row" before the act.

BI601BN
http://flyingcolors.onewavemedia.com/blog/


25 Bravo1six : 50 seaters at low loads is a good way to lose a lot of money real quick. I've seen figures which suggest that breakeven on a given segment for a 50 s
26 Cubsrule : ...which is exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks.
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