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Australia Nonstop From Europe  
User currently offlineAlexA340B777 From Indonesia, joined Oct 2008, 135 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 15798 times:

Hi all,

so here goes my first thread on airliners.net after being member only for a couple of days!  Smile

I found another thread on this topic here on the forum (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/253086/), but that one is already 8 years old so things might have changed meanwhile.

I was just wondering if there have been / are / will ever be nonstop flights that operate between European cities and Australia.

A while ago I have read that those flights so far would be possible only eastwards due to the wind being westerly-headed mostly. So I guess that so far those flights didn't and don´t exist.

Are there any plans of offering Europe-Australia nonstop connections in the future? Maybe once the new 787 and A350 will become available?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Cheers!

Alex


So far travelled to 64 countries on 5 continents on 398 flights
78 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7409 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 15663 times:



Quoting AlexA340B777 (Thread starter):
I was just wondering if there have been / are / will ever be nonstop flights that operate between European cities and Australia.

There's never been any regular long haul commercial flight between Europe and Australia.
No aircraft available on the market today can cover the distance fully loaded with Passengers, luggages and fuel.


User currently offlineSwiftski From Australia, joined Dec 2006, 2701 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 15621 times:



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 1):
There's never been any regular long haul commercial flight between Europe and Australia.
No aircraft available on the market today can cover the distance fully loaded with Passengers, luggages and fuel.

Virgin Atlantic have stated that in the future they will operate LON-PER with 787's


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 15567 times:

The shortest route Australia to Europe would probably be Perth to Athens, and that is 6624 nm. That's right at the edge of "do-able" for most aircraft, although SIN-EWR is 8285 nm.

SYD-LHR is 9188 nm, with MEL-LHR at 9127, both currently impossible with any passenger aircraft.

I had a thread a long time ago about the feasibility of using Perth as a stopping point, making trans-Australian connections easier, but the simplicity of current operations as well as the directness of going via SIN, BKK, or HKG - not to mention these facilities are well set-up for the Kangaroo route - make this simply unfeasible.

When non-stops to/from Europe/Australia do finally become available, expect to pay a large premium - there are MANY carriers that fly this route with one-stop (and a connection), but a non-stop will command the higher fares.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineMIgAiR54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1694 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 15462 times:

Here is my question

Could a A345 or B772LR in full business configuration sucess in this route?? SYD-LON, MEL-LON,

IMO, it could be a sucess, but with all the routes offered and different timetables and with such a wide possibilities and airlines.


User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 15412 times:



Quoting MIgAiR54 (Reply 4):
Here is my question

Could a A345 or B772LR in full business configuration sucess in this route?? SYD-LON, MEL-LON,

IMO, it could be a sucess, but with all the routes offered and different timetables and with such a wide possibilities and airlines.

Put simply, if it was QF would be flying it. They've certainly looked at it.


User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2177 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 15324 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 3):
The shortest route Australia to Europe would probably be Perth to Athens, and that is 6624 nm. That's right at the edge of "do-able" for most aircraft,

Totally doable with a 77L actually, and IST-PER is slightly closer (about same distance as DXB-SYD), but let's not become neat-picky on distances here... Even a 77W or 744, or even maybe a 772ER under certain conditions can do IST-PER.
The main problem is that neither PER nor IST/ATH can sustain a non-stop route because there simply is not enough demand between these cities. Sure, OA or TK could offer connections to the rest of Europe, but again what's the point when one gets in competition with highly aggressive and competitive EK, QF, SQ, et al. via Arabia/S Asia ?

Same as saying that an A319 can fly TATL (St John's-LHR) but that no one does it anymore because there simply is not enough demand.

Non-stop flights to Oz from Europe will become reality once LHR-SYD flights are doable. Which i believe, would be the last stage of the race to ultra-long-range for airliners. If, of course, the price of oil makes it worthwhile (at this point, aircraft need to carry so much fuel that it simply becomes uneconomical due to added fuel necessary to carry the weight of the extra fuel for the end of the flight...)



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 15164 times:

Agreed that IST-Australia and ATH-Australia are not feasible. I was showing the closest airports between the two continents.

The only real market for a non-stop between Europe and Australia is LHR to SYD/MEL. Otherwise I doubt one could fill a plane with enough premium passengers to sustain the flight and effectively compete against EK and other airlines specializing in trans-Eastern-Hemisphere flights.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7460 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 15158 times:

In March 2006 a BA 772 (G-YMMO) flew the then British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, and 60 other passengers from an EU summit meeting in Brussels to the closing ceremony of the Commonwealth Games in Melbourne non-stop.

I believe that the BRU-MEL flight of 8,953nm with an elapsed time of 18 hrs 45 mins is the world's longest fully commercial flight. However it could not have been possible if the aircraft had been anywhere near fully laden.


User currently offlineCastropRauxel From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 15021 times:

Well, QF will soon have a bunch of A380 on their hands. with a range of 8200nm, in theory one of those can be deployed on FRA-PER for example.

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19495 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 14961 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 3):
SYD-LHR is 9188 nm, with MEL-LHR at 9127, both currently impossible with any passenger aircraft.

Boeing states that the 777-200ER can fly a mission of 9,300 NM. In reality, it might need to stop for fuel on some portion of trips. But it can do it.

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 3):
The shortest route Australia to Europe would probably be Perth to Athens, and that is 6624 nm. That's right at the edge of "do-able" for most aircraft, although SIN-EWR is 8285 nm.

A 744 can easily do 6624 NM.

The question is this: would you want to? OK, if you're in Y class, such a trip approaches 20 hours in duration. That's just not pleasant. In fact, it's downright brutal. The 14h SFO-SYD leg is awful enough. I'd far rather stop somewhere for a couple of hours, strech my legs, take a shower if possible, and then get back to the dirty business of Y class.

So these flights would have very little Y-class demand and would be mostly J and F class services, like SQ does on EWR-SIN. A number of all-J/F services have gone tits-up, so don't count on it happening any time soon.

Now, if an SST were to become available that could fly over land, then that sort of range would become very interesting.


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3607 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 14918 times:

Didn't QF fly their first 744 LHR-SYD nonstop as the delivery flight? Obviously it's not feasible for normal ops but interesting nonetheless.


PHX based
User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1644 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 14816 times:

One observation that I'd make on this is that the economics of ULH flights are very much in question now that fuel prices have gone up as significantly as they have over the last 12 months or so. On other threads it has been postulated that (for example) a flight from AKL-JFK might well be possible but that the economics of it would be seriously impaired by the need burn fuel early in the flight to carry the fuel for the latter part of the flight - even if the demand for the flights was there. There is actually a significant fuel saving to be made by flying the route in two stages (such as AKL-LAX-JFK) with a considerably lighter aircraft.

I believe that this is also one of the reasons why the New York nonstop flights by airlines like TG and SQ have been very marginal, and in some cases I believe have actually been dropped. I think that the "mantra" would have to be that "ULH fligths will only succeed on ultra-high yield routes".



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlineAndaman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 14728 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 7):
Agreed that IST-Australia and ATH-Australia are not feasible. I was showing the closest airports between the two continents.

Against all odds, the closest EU hub to SYD is actually HEL 8202nm, in Europe only IST 8076nm comes closer, while ATH takes 8264nm.

Right now the HEL-HKG-SYD route on AY67/CX139 is the fastest route from Europe to Sydney? Total travelling time 19h40min. Atleast if you live in HEL  Wink
And the prices perhaps the lowest in Europe at the moment, checked the prices for next spring, HEL-HKG-SYD starting from 1070e return.


User currently offlineF27friend From Australia, joined Feb 2008, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 14639 times:

For the record, QF did fly nonstop LHR-SYD with their first 747-438 on the delivery flight and hold that record for the longest flight (in 1997-8 I think). It only had a handful of passengers, maximum fuel, was towed to the LHR keyboard where the engines were started and had special ATC clearances all the way to SYD and maintained miniumum fuel on arrival. This was a once off as the name of the 747-438 aircraft is "Longreach" sustaining the "long reach" from England to Australia in recognition of the outback Queensland town where the airline had offices.


F27 & F28 Fan
User currently offlineVHSMM From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 14599 times:



Quoting 777STL (Reply 11):
The question is this: would you want to? OK, if you're in Y class, such a trip approaches 20 hours in duration. That's just not pleasant. In fact, it's downright brutal. The 14h SFO-SYD leg is awful enough. I'd far rather stop somewhere for a couple of hours, stretch my legs, take a shower if possible, and then get back to the dirty business of Y class.

I agree with you, 20 hours down the back of the plane would be terrible. While Business and First class would be better, even they would be a bit wearing after such a long period. Perhaps I am not a good flyer but after flying SIN-LHR in J class, I feel terrible.

If Europe to Australia was to ever become non-stop, I would hope it was accompanied with a increase in cruising speed as well.

Onward and Upward.



Flown: 727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,A300,A319,20,21,A330,A340,A380,CRJ-200,BAe146,AVRO100,Saab340B,MD82,F100,Dash8
User currently offline1821 From Greece, joined Jul 2007, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 14421 times:



Quoting F27friend (Reply 14):

The LHR to SYD non-stop flight actually flew into SYD with 5 minutes of fuel remaining. I remember hearing that on some news channel  Wink



734 , 737 , 738 , 742 , 744 , 757 , 767 , A320 , AVRO RJ 100 , ATR 72 . ATH , ZTH , RHO , EFL , LHR , MAN , DUB , AMS ,
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3051 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 14307 times:

You'd see Aust.-JFK first


E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7460 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 13856 times:



Quoting Andaman (Reply 13):
And the prices perhaps the lowest in Europe at the moment, checked the prices for next spring, HEL-HKG-SYD starting from 1070e return.

Checked BA selecting at random out on 4 February and back on 11 February. Economy the cost was 874 Pounds Sterling which converts to 1,104.75 Euros at 1.26402 Euros to the Pound, today's exchange rate.

This is just 3.2 per cent more than the HEL-SYD price. But the similarity in pricing might reflect that the airlines are both oneworld partners.


User currently offlineAndaman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 13748 times:



Quoting VV701 (Reply 18):
This is just 3.2 per cent more than the HEL-SYD price. But the similarity in pricing might reflect that the airlines are both oneworld partners.

This winter season the prices from HEL to Australia have come down quite a bit, with the new faster connections through HKG and BKK.
Generally speaking, is competition getting harder between Europe and Australia? EK and EY pushing the others?


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5627 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 13514 times:



Quoting USAirALB (Reply 17):
You'd see Aust.-JFK first

Seriously doubt it! SYD/MEL-LHR can command yeilds NO other routes from Oz can come anywhere near, not to mention total traffic.

While the economics of ULH flight is currently marginal, you can bet that QF will jump in with both feet when they get a plane that meets their requirements, ie range v payload. The jump it will give them on the other 1001 airlines on the Kangaroo route is just too massive to pass up.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3151 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 13487 times:

Looks like London-Perth will be the first scheduled AUS-Europe nonstop service (service intent already announced).

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...ctors/transport/article1701266.ece

Most automatically suggest MEL or SYD for initial service, and therefore rule out the possibility of nonstop Europe - Australia service. However, I believe PER would be able to sustain London service in a few years. Traffic at PER has grown 50% in 3 years (now over 9 million per year), and based on this rate should be able to maintain its own service to London at that time. Current aircraft could fly the route, but are too big; I think the 787 is just right.

Also, until an aircraft is available to make London-SYD/MEL possible, a PER-LHR route might be the only way QF can take some passengers away from EK, after years of the opposite being true. Especially if QF can offer convenient connections from London to British regional destinations via BA. But looks like Virgin will be first.



FLYi
User currently offlineTravelhound From Australia, joined May 2008, 919 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 13381 times:



Quoting VHSMM (Reply 15):
I agree with you, 20 hours down the back of the plane would be terrible. While Business and First class would be better, even they would be a bit wearing after such a long period. Perhaps I am not a good flyer but after flying SIN-LHR in J class, I feel terrible.

I feel terrible flying BRS-SYD in J class. BRS-CHC last month was like hell.

Personally, I would seriously consider another airline if I couldn't have a stop over on a 20 hour flight. Nothing better than having a shower and a couple of hours to walk around to get the blood circulating again.

Maybe it would work on a All business / First class aircraft?  crazy 


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5627 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 13254 times:



Quoting PITrules (Reply 21):
But looks like Virgin will be first.

Wouldn't bet too much money on this. After around 80 years on the route I don't think QF group will allow SRB to upstage them on this one. QF/JQ will have B787 before VS, so i supect if it looks like it will actually happen, QF/JQ will slide one in first.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineAntskip From Australia, joined Jan 2006, 927 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 13196 times:



Quoting PITrules (Reply 21):
until an aircraft is available to make London-SYD/MEL possible, a PER-LHR route might be the only way QF can take some passengers away from EK, after years of the opposite being true. Especially if QF can offer convenient connections from London to British regional destinations via BA.

Whatever the aircraft available, it won't change the poor economics of carrying so much extra fuel that much further before being used.
EK uses DXB brilliantly as a distributor/hub for its so many UK and European destinations. EK's use of its DXB hub does two things: it reduces time in the air, so avoiding extreme fuel-carrying legs on its planes and on its passengers (MEL-DXB is 14 hrs - even that is tough, IMHO); and it acts as a point-to-point distributor for the whole of the UK and Europe. The idea of using of LHR as a distributor/hub for Australian flights involves flying over the length of Europe first, and then asks passengers to change to domestic flights for the UK (or back to Europe on international). EK, by using DXB as its distributor, uses its own (international) network to get passengers, not only across Europe, but across the UK as well. It is the absence of a suitable distributor/hub to UK and Europe that is QF's Achilles Heel in comparison to EK. Possible direct point-to-point ultra-long-distance flights from Australian ports to LHR by QF will not alter its weakness- it merely underlines it. But then I don't believe the likes of QF and NZ should even try and match EK's network - they are doing fine on their own well-trodden paths; more limited however they may be! Let EK become the world's airline equivalent of Woolworths, the C21st Pan Am...


25 PITrules : Your comments are accurate in the sense of comparing connecting hubs. But when compared to a nonstop service filled with O&D passengers, you are inco
26 Pylon101 : It doesn't make any sense to build an aicraft version designed specifically for 2 (two) non-stop flights: SYD-LHR and SYD-JFK. I very much doubt that
27 AlexA340B777 : Really interesting to read all your posts guys, didn´t expect such a great response actually! Good point that being on economy on a nonstop Europe-Au
28 DocLightning : Why do people keep on saying this? The 772LR can do it, at least if Boeing's figures are to be believed it can do it and it can keep going an additio
29 Ben175 : Random thought: Why did QF drop their services from PER-LHR/CDG/FCO via Singapore? I remember QF served all three of those destinations from Perth and
30 747megatop : On a different note, can DEL become a hub for the AUS-Europe route (on either 9W or IT) given the fact that DEL will be opening up a brand new termina
31 Gemuser : You got a source for that While I don't have the numbers to hand I belive over 50 % of the Oz population has travelled overseas from Oz (that way it
32 PITrules : Boeing lists the range at 9420nm, and the distance between London and Sydney is 9174nm. That's straight line. What about airways, departure and arriv
33 Smi0006 : I was just thinking that I do remember reading somewhere that us Aussies travel more per capita than anyone (may have only been second to the Germans
34 CV990Coronado : I think it is important to look at the market first if you take QF as an example they only fly to LON and FRA this says a lot. I think the only realis
35 Av8rDAL : I believe JNB-ATL used to be the longest scheduled commercial flight recently when it was offered by South African and their 744 and A346. But it als
36 Speedbird555 : Welcome to Airliners.net Alex....enjoy the ride!
37 SSTsomeday : I have a feeling it would be a combination of: 1) the further tweaking of A/C structures to lighter overall weight, which is the direction that the 7
38 DocLightning : Which goes back to my previous point of "you'd have to be crazy and stupid to want to do that trip in Y class anyway." Think of the market. Most of t
39 AlexA340B777 : Cheers mate!
40 Indio66 : Yeah right, no matter where I have traveled I have run into Aussies. There are probably a bunch of them wandering around Bagdad right now with backba
41 AlexEU : What about TLV-Australia flights? This could work well for connections, but the problem is that flights to Israel can not overfly most Arabic countrie
42 RJ111 : This is the one thing i never really understood about the flight. It must save you at most 2 hours. When the flight is pretty much 24 hours i don't g
43 DocLightning : Someone once told me that at a certain range it actually becomes more economical to stop and re-fuel than to haul all that fuel into the air for a si
44 RJ111 : Takeoff is inheritantly fuel expensive so the longer you cruise the more that one expensive event is diluted. On a per mile basis you would be burning
45 TristarSteve : As well as being towed out to the runway, that flight was supplied with special high density fuel as a one off. The fuel was cooled down before being
46 Koruman : At the moment three airlines fly Australia-Europe non-stop. Air Calin fly Brisbane-Noumea and Sydney-Noumea. Air Tahiti Nui fly Sydney-Papeete. Qanta
47 Viscount724 : Politically, yes, but not geographically. Cyprus is also an EU member but certainly isn't located in Europe geographically.
48 Viscount724 : There's no direct service TLV-SIN. LY operates TLV-BKK nonstop. I think those flights fly down the Red Sea and then turn left over the Indian Ocean.
49 AirNZ : Sorry, but this is the often repeated comment which, in my opinion, is simply absolute nonsense. How much time honestly is a non-stop flight from LHR
50 VV701 : Yes. No. There are two types of maps, political and physical. If you are looking ar a political map then perhaps the answer is not 'No' but 'Maybe'.
51 VV701 : Sorry. The above reply is a bit too succinct. If you take BA015 LHR-SIN-SYD as an example, the flight is scheduled to arrive at SIN at 17:35 hrs and
52 Viscount724 : You should have referred to the European Union, not Europe. All countries in Europe that aren't EU members are certainly part of Europe, but not poli
53 SSTsomeday : Interesting - so you have one less take off and climb to altitude in the non-stop flight, yet you carry more fuel. I wonder how one factor ameliorate
54 VV701 : I do not necessarily agree. In what way is Switzerland, a country that jealously guards its neutrality, politically part of anything let alone "Europ
55 Viscount724 : That brings up an interesting point re English usage. You will very rarely hear someone from the U.S. or Canada say that they are going to "America"
56 VV701 : My wife's sister-in-law, born and bred in the USA and a California resident always or nearly always refers to "America". But there you go. As you int
57 DavidByrne : Don't understand the significance of this. Surely, the longest commercial flights are QF/BA/VS from East Coast Australia to the UK, and NZ from Auckl
58 VV701 : Yes. The AKL-LHR route is almost as long as you can get. The earth has a circumference of 24,900 miles. So the longest possible great circle route is
59 Viscount724 : Unfortunately that's not correct. If not mistaken the longest current commercial flight (not nonstop) is KE's recently-introduced ICN-LAX-GRU service
60 DavidByrne : Happy to stand corrected. I wondered also about MH's flight from KUL-JNB-CPT-EZE, but that's "only" 9,005 nm.
61 Viscount724 : Another long one I overlooked is JL's NRT-JFK-GRU service at 9,984 nm. That's probably the 4th longest after KE ICN-GRU and the two NZ routes AKL-LHR
62 QF744FAN : Minimal fuel left after being towed to the end of the runway at LHR, using a high density fuel, and flying at FL450 from northern Western Australia.
63 SSTsomeday : Actually, yes, I think the correct description of an American citizen is "American," and that he/she was born in USA or "America." I imagine the word
64 AlexEU : French Polynesia, New Caledonia and Wallis/Futuna belong to France, but they are not part of France, and they are not part of EU. However Reunion is
65 VV701 : Both BA and QF fly LHR-SYD via BKK. The BA009 has a stopover of 2hrs 10mins. The QF metal BA code share flight (BA7312) flight stays a little longer
66 Tayser : ^ How long was the previous BA LHR-SIN-MEL stopover in SIN - it used to be the same as the current Sydney flights via SIN & BKK (both arrived/departed
67 VV701 : Back in winter 1991-92 BA009 LHR-MEL operated through BKK. In those dim and distant days its arrival at BKK was scheduled at 15:40 with the departure
68 Viscount724 : I think KUL is only one of the many possible connecting points between Europe and Australia. I'm not aware that any carrier operates direct service v
69 TransIsland : Moscow's still in Europe: DME-SYD 7812nm Not that I know anything about QF delivery flights, but wouldn't SEA-LHR-SYD @ over 13,300nm be an odd routi
70 OlympicATH : I don't know about IST but ATH-Australia could be feasible taking into account the strong Greece-Australia market (does EK launching a second daily t
71 GFFgold : I fly CGK to the UK fairly regularly and for a while now I have been using Mid East carriers such as EY and QR simply because of the break half way t
72 Viscount724 : See Replies 14 and 45. Since LHR-SYD is such a high visibility market for QF they operated this special flight for the PR value. A few of the early Q
73 OzGlobal : Couldn't be more wrong on that. Australians and I believe Germans are the worlds no 1 long haul travellers. Almost everyone I know has been to EU or
74 Post contains links Lambert747 : FCO-ATH-MEL-SYD.. Could be named the VFR Express .. Greek-Australians 365,000 Greek-Australians in Australia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Austr
75 CastropRauxel : The question would be, connections for whom? Israelis and australians, maybe also new-zealanders, but that's just about it. TLV, by nature, is an O&D
76 Tayser : London is going to be the only European port worth having a non-stop flight to either MEL or SYD. 60-70% of the Australian population ethnically anglo
77 Jacobin777 : With a B772LR, QF with around a 185-215 pax J/Y+ seating configuration, would be able to fly LHR-SYD year round and SYD-LHR with an occasional winter
78 Tayser : the other problem for QF is getting more LHR slots. $$$
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