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787 First Flight Delayed To 1Q2009  
User currently offlineObserver From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 78 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 20798 times:

This item just popped up; the first flight of the 787 is now delayed until the first quarter of next year, Boeing has confirmed.
http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/2008/10/08/787-first-flight-1q09/

96 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 20621 times:



Quoting Observer (Thread starter):
This item just popped up; the first flight of the 787 is now delayed until the first quarter of next year, Boeing has confirmed.

That doesn't seem too surprising...they've been on a day-for-day slide ever since the strike began, plus I'm sure there's a lot of time wrapped up in getting the whole operation going when IAM finally comes back.

Tom.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31097 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 20590 times:
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Well they must have hard dates they need to meet, so they evidently feel they can still get it done. *shrug*

User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2558 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 20543 times:

I'm sure this surprises only a few. I'll believe what Boeing says about first flight when I am standing against the fence at PAE and see the bird in the air with my own eyes - not before.
Stitch, Clickhappy, SEPilot and other Puget Sound areea denizens - hope to see you there


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6937 posts, RR: 63
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 20403 times:

It's getting harder to see ANA receive their first 787 in August...

User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5072 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 20387 times:



Quoting PM (Reply 5):
It's getting harder to see ANA receive their first 787 in August...

If this strike ends soon, hopefully the men and women on the 787 line can get ANA this airplane sooner than later. I am beyond anxious to see the 787 begin flight testing!!!!



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 20274 times:

Cold testing? And if this is not completed in the 2008-09 northern winter, does it affect delivery?

User currently offlineMCIGuy From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1936 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 20263 times:

How long before the 787 becomes the joke of CivAv industry?


Airliners.net Moderator Team
User currently offlineScipio From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 898 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 20122 times:



Quoting PM (Reply 5):
It's getting harder to see ANA receive their first 787 in August...

Frankly, the way things are going, I think it is unlikely we will see a 2009 EIS.

So many things have gone wrong by now that one has to be very optimistic to assume that no problems will surface during the flight test program.


User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 20041 times:



Quoting Baroque (Reply 7):
Cold testing?

Even if this drags out 'till January or February, they should still be able to find good cold weather well into March.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 7):
And if this is not completed in the 2008-09 northern winter, does it affect delivery?

Not really...you could always have a temporary limit on cold weather until you complete the testing. If Boeing hasn't been able to find cold weather it means the airlines haven't either, so that shouldn't have too huge an operational impact.

Tom.


User currently offlineWingedMigrator From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2215 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 19990 times:

RETRACTED!

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...yeing-4q-for-787-first-flight.html

The 1Q09 quote apparently referred to performance flight testing, not first flight, which is still scheduled for 4Q08 per the last delay announced in April 2008.

I suppose the next delay announcement will have to wait.


User currently offlinePlaneInsomniac From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 680 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 19984 times:



Quoting Baroque (Reply 7):
Cold testing?

Seriously, what is it with cold testing? It seems this is now some kind of pet obsession with A.netters. What's the big deal? I am pretty sure it would be possible to fly the plane to somewhere in northern Canada or Alaska to conduct cold testing year-round if necessary. Airbus has been flying their planes around half the globe to perform all sorts of tests like cold testing, hot & high etc. Why should that be a problem for Boeing?

Honestly, the way things have been going for the 787 program in the past few years, cold testing schedules should be the least of their worries. If the plane is so far along early next year that only cold testing is holding it back, the champagne will be flowing in Seattle.

As somebody else has said, a 2009 EIS looks increasingly optimistic for any number of reasons from labor issues to a constantly slipping schedule and a remain unknowns during testing (IIRC, even load testing on the ground has only recently commenced).



Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9149 posts, RR: 76
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 19876 times:



Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 11):

I wonder if that was an inadvertent slip. Maybe they HAD to retract the statement as it may not have met the SEC rules. They still have time to do the first flight in 2008, but the weeks are passing by very quickly, just 83 days to go, it is Q42008 already.

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 12):
Seriously, what is it with cold testing? It seems this is now some kind of pet obsession with A.netters. What's the big deal? I am pretty sure it would be possible to fly the plane to somewhere in northern Canada or Alaska to conduct cold testing year-round if necessary

The testing needs to be done at some stage, but may not need to be done for EIS, this is what was said last time this came up.

from http://www.leeham.net/filelib/ScottsColumn110607.pdf

"Such tests are normally done in Alaska or Canada, but the revised schedule reflecting a
six month delay means it will be too warm there after the planned first flight of the new
Dreamliner. Pundits, analysts and enthusiasts worldwide wondered if there was a location
in the Southern Hemisphere that would work; the consensus seemed to be “no.” We
previously asked Boeing about this are were told that among the problems facing Boeing
for the 787, cold soak was the least of the worries. Provisional certification could be
received with a mandate to complete the cold soak testing within a specified period, we
were told."



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10105 posts, RR: 97
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 19808 times:
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Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 1):
That doesn't seem too surprising...

Indeed. It would be surprising if it didn't, given the current dislocations..

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 8):
How long before the 787 becomes the joke of CivAv industry?

A long, long time.
I think most of us appreciated on here the level of risk that was built into this programme right at the start.. (it would have been nice if Boeing had, too, of course..  Wink )

But, like the A380, I think the end product should be worth the wait.
And that, to me, is the crux of the issue for the 787.. will it be worth the wait?

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...g-deliver-the-787-within-spec.html

I think the industry will forgive Boeing just about anything, so long as this plane pretty much delivers what it set out to.  crossfingers 
A big miss on performance targets as well as the delay? That might make your prediction a bit more likely....

Rgds


User currently offlineAutoThrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1596 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 19183 times:



Quoting F9Animal (Reply 4):
Strike Update – Day 33

100m$ a day(according analysts) makes 3,3bn$ lost trough the strike. Wow, thats a third of the 787 development costs.
Anyway once this graceful bird is in mass production no one will care about this.

Maybe the union people do the right thing to strike. How often are the workers and their families forgotten while the management is busy securing their "rewards" and firing people.  Angry



“Faliure is not an option.”
User currently offlineEbbUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 18892 times:

A botch job of the highest order.

1. Continued delays. How can a spokesperson state first flight in Q4 2008 in Q4 2008 without specifying a date? Not entirely exuding confidence.
2. Strike at the factories
3. Market intelligence doubting performance specs of the plane.

When will it end for the bad Dreamliner?


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 18847 times:



Quoting Astuteman (Reply 14):
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...g-deliver-the-787-within-spec.html

Saw that article too last night. I was puzzled by this piece of text halfway.


Boeing's publicly listed performance data for the 787-8 shows a range spread of 7,650nm (14,200km) to 8,200nm. However in announcing last month that Airbus will make a higher-gross weight version of the A330-200 available in hopes of capturing new market share caused by 787 delays, Airbus investor marketing director Derek Davies claimed the range for the 787-8 would be limited to 6,720nm.

He said that Airbus has updated its analysis of the 787's performance specifications based on market intelligence and that it expects the first 20 787s to have a 2% higher fuel burn and "tonnes" of extra operating empty weight added to the baseline specification.

Asked whether initial 787 deliveries will meet Boeing's specifications, a Boeing spokesman today said: "For our customers, the ability to fly their missions is paramount and we're committed to making those airplanes meet those missions. We can't comment further on discussions that we may or may not be having with our customers."


I really hope Airbus is wrong. Not because I believe the 787 was ever bought by airlines to do very long thin routes, but because of payload implications on "normal" 4000 - 5000 nm long haul flights.


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9149 posts, RR: 76
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 18794 times:



Quoting EbbUK (Reply 16):
A botch job of the highest order.

I don't think so, it has a lot of sound engineering behind it, give it time to prove itself in service. If anything, I would rather them take more time to get it right first time.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 18719 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 18):
Quoting EbbUK (Reply 16):
A botch job of the highest order.

I don't think so, it has a lot of sound engineering behind it, give it time to prove itself in service. If anything, I would rather them take more time to get it right first time.

That seems to be the problem. NWA is one of the early customers no doubt planning to fly to Narita with a lot of freight in the belly. They know more & express concerns publicly..

When first delivery occurs, Northwest will be looking for those aircraft to meet specifications, Northwest VP international marketing and sales Fred Deschamps said this week at the Boyd aviation forecast summit in Aspen. "We need the full range and the full efficiency."

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...g-deliver-the-787-within-spec.html


A Boeing spokesman stated the airframer will have "more specific airplane performance data following flight testing. That's scheduled to happen first quarter 2009."

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-still-the-target-says-boeing.html

[Edited 2008-10-09 02:31:55]

User currently offlineDalavia From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 549 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 18681 times:



Quoting Astuteman (Reply 14):
I think the industry will forgive Boeing just about anything, so long as this plane pretty much delivers what it set out to.

And that leads me to an interesting thought.

If the 787 was (say) Embraer's or Bombardier's first foray into making a large jet, would the market be so forgiving?

And if the 787 was Tupolev's first entry into wide-bodied jets, would the market be so forgiving?

Boeing obviously - and rightly, given its history - has tremendous goodwill and prestige, and it is trading on that at this time.

I wonder whether any other company could be weathering the storm quite so well at this stage of the game, given everything that has happened and is happening.

And I wonder how quickly Boeing's goodwill is eroding, bit by bit.


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9149 posts, RR: 76
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 18514 times:



Quoting Keesje (Reply 19):
That seems to be the problem. NWA is one of the early customers no doubt planning to fly to Narita with a lot of freight in the belly. They know more & express concerns publicly..

Sorry I have little sympathy, early production slots come at a discount to match the risk, both in terms of delivery time and performance.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineSwallow From Uganda, joined Jul 2007, 555 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 18376 times:



Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 10):
first flight, which is still scheduled for 4Q08 per the last delay announced in April 2008

As per this schedule, final assembly of ZA001 was scheduled to be completed by Aug 31st. Just before the IAM strike, Flightblogger reported that this had slipped by five weeks pushing first flight further out.

Add the almost five weeks of the strike and you are already into the back end of Q1 2009.

Given the pace of final assembly we may not have all six test frames flying till Q3 09.

EIS in 2010 is looking more and more likely



The grass is greener where you water it
User currently offlineTeme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1566 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 18358 times:
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Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 7):
How long before the 787 becomes the joke of CivAv industry?

It should take a long.. long time ... How long it too for Airbus to get the A380 flying...



Flying high and low
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9149 posts, RR: 76
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 18193 times:



Quoting Teme82 (Reply 22):
How long it too for Airbus to get the A380 flying...

99 days from roll out to first flight for the A380, WingedMigrator has a useful diagram shown this in his profile.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 18064 times:



Quoting Baroque (Reply 6):
Cold testing? And if this is not completed in the 2008-09 northern winter, does it affect delivery?

I'm sure they can find an airstrip SOMEWHERE on the Southern hemisphere that is suitably chilly some Summertime. IIRC there is an airstrip on Antarctica that the NZers or Aussies use to shuttle A319s full of scientists and research equipment backwards and forwards to the South Pole research stations.

Surely they could use that - i mean, it doesn't have to have widened taxiways or dual jetbridges, right?

Quoting Zeke (Reply 17):
Quoting EbbUK (Reply 16):
A botch job of the highest order.

I don't think so, it has a lot of sound engineering behind it, give it time to prove itself in service. If anything, I would rather them take more time to get it right first time.

I agree with Zeke - Boeing are taking the time to get it right, just as Airbus did with the A380, and didnt do with the A346.

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 19):
Quoting Astuteman (Reply 14):
I think the industry will forgive Boeing just about anything, so long as this plane pretty much delivers what it set out to.

And that leads me to an interesting thought.

If the 787 was (say) Embraer's or Bombardier's first foray into making a large jet, would the market be so forgiving?

And if the 787 was Tupolev's first entry into wide-bodied jets, would the market be so forgiving?

Boeing obviously - and rightly, given its history - has tremendous goodwill and prestige, and it is trading on that at this time.

Agreed - Boeing is dining out on their goodwill at the moment.

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 19):
And I wonder how quickly Boeing's goodwill is eroding, bit by bit.

I think they have plenty in the tank just yet. Boeing's credibility will outlast all these issues - these are the people who brought us the B17, the B52, the 707. the 727, the 737, the 747, the 767 and the 777 - all revolutionary in their own way. The 787 will join these exalted ranks one day I'm sure.

Quoting Zeke (Reply 20):
Quoting Keesje (Reply 19):
That seems to be the problem. NWA is one of the early customers no doubt planning to fly to Narita with a lot of freight in the belly. They know more & express concerns publicly..

Sorry I have little sympathy, early production slots come at a discount to match the risk, both in terms of delivery time and performance.

Agreed again.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
25 Frigatebird : And they agreed to receive one of the test planes as well, do they really expect that one to have "full range and the full efficiency" too?
26 Par13del : More and more we have business fans and not just airline fans, for the airlines fans this is ok, but for the business fans, nah. Recent history VHS,
27 RedChili : But will Boeing be willing to take the risk of parking a 787 in Antarctica for a long period of time? IIRC, the cold soak testing means that the airp
28 CHRISBA777ER : I see what you are saying but they'll have a air cart or some form of ground power there - they have to! if it fails the tests (which it wont, i am c
29 WINGS : Chris, their is a huge difference between the A380 and 787 program. Airbus did not struggle to get the A380 airborne. It is during flight testing tha
30 CHRISBA777ER : Of course it wont be anything like as mature as the A380 was at EIS - thats obvious. What i'm saying is they are taking their time to get it right -
31 Post contains links and images Keesje : I think most carriers expect some child deceases / sub optimal issues with the first aircraft / prototypes. If aircraft #19 still has 2% higher fuel b
32 Post contains links Baroque : Now that, Tds, is something that should be made more widely available. As the blood thins and the arteries clog up, limits on cold weather would be j
33 Zeke : They are late, I give you that. They will have lower fuel burns than the A330, you have years of aerodynamic advancements, and new engine technology.
34 CHRISBA777ER : Indeed but then the A300-600R had the short/medium haul payload advantage over the 767, and look where that got it? I'm just looking forward to flyin
35 SparkingWave : Even if the 787 is delayed again, it won't be such a big deal. As we've seen with the Airbus A380, airlines will wait and not cancel orders to any sig
36 CHRISBA777ER : But i thought they were absolute dogs, always broken in a hangar somewhere? Weren't they also dozens of tonnes overweight with badly made wings and d
37 Frigatebird : VS has a history of deferring orders. I could be wrong, but haven't they deferred everything they ordered so far this decade? Not just the first batc
38 WINGS : Zeke, I understand your point, but fact is that the 787 was not competing against the A330, but the A350 (original) While Boeing will certainly work
39 TISTPAA727 : Yes and the company's name is Airbus. Both companies can get away with more than others because the technology they deal with is beyond the reach of
40 Stitch : This might be why Boeing stopped production of parts at the suppliers, rather then let them keep cranking out parts to build a backlog of parts for s
41 CHRISBA777ER : If they need the capacity then they need the capacity. With DL at the helm - hell will freeze over before they ever look seriously at the A350, doesn
42 DocLightning : And not only that, but if it turns out that the aircraft burns more fuel than it is supposed to and doesn't have the range that it's supposed to, the
43 Dano1977 : From what i have read in magazines and other forums, that the early A346's were hangar queens, and did have have a slightly higher than quoted fuel c
44 Keesje : Iwould not count on that. It wouldn't have been customers choice to choose between bad scenarios. That sounds maybe too dramatic, however Boeing woul
45 CHRISBA777ER : LOL Keesje - where did you find that? I hope that wasnt an official Boeing ad - they look a wee bit silly now, don't they? Idiot cheerleaders.
46 Flyglobal : Why? August 2010 should be ok or do you expect 2011? Ok this was a must, of cours I want to see the bird fly ASAP regards Flyglobal
47 Post contains images WingedMigrator : Some data for you: August 2009 is the anticipated delivery date for the first ANA aircraft. For a new type there is usually a several week delay betw
48 Art : The airlines that have planned to replace uncompetitive aircraft with the 787 in the next 2-4 years have no other option than to wait, surely? What e
49 Par13del : How many of them presently use the A-330, which is closer to the B-787 than the B-777? Those that already have the A-330 do not have much choice, inc
50 Icareflies : Keep your expectations high. We should know about all Boeing issues by Oct 22d, next earning press release. Speculation at Boeing are that questions w
51 Stitch : You know, if the 787 is as shitty a plane as some here are claiming, Boeing might as well just cancel it and sell everyone 777-200LRs, instead. That w
52 Icareflies : I cannot wait to get the source of this information. Please explain how you get to that number. Thanks
53 Khobar : Wait a minute - that has a very familiar ring to it. Oh, right....
54 Legacytravel : I personally would start to hire replacement workers. Start training them, and maybe the idiots at the IAM would start to negoiate in good faith. It
55 Astuteman : Except I'm more inclined to think that Airbus will continue to upgrade the A330 for the 250-seat market..... Funny isn't it? Who'd have thought so 3
56 DocLightning : I don't think so. I think that they have learned some lessons from Boeing. Now, had the plane had EIS this year, then by 2018 Boeing could be produci
57 Moo : People have been saying that since time immorial - yet old planes still get traded for large amounts of money....
58 MCIGuy : Yeah, that was just a stupid, emotional reaction. In reality, I just can't wait to see "Plastic Fantastic" fly, tomorrow wouldn't be soon enough.
59 Astuteman : We've all done it.... Rgds
60 EA772LR : I am keeping my fingers crossed that the 787 EIS is as smooth and impressive as the A380 was. Perhaps there are some benefits to coming to the party
61 EPA001 : Me too, but the flight test schedule is now extremely under pressure! Please remember that the A380 flight testing went pretty smooth, contrary to th
62 Stitch : Might Boeing's "pseudo-common nacelle mount" on the 787 allow GTFs to be "more easily" (and I'm using quotes for a reason as I know it's not as simpl
63 PanAm788 : I blame the unions. IAM is so out of line, and unions in general seem to be a dying breed that keep getting more and more desperate. I hope they reach
64 Tdscanuck : There seems to be some pervasive (and wrong) belief that you can't enter service without cold weather testing. I agree, it's somewhat baffling. Boein
65 Alessandro : So who´s surprised, Boeing was way too aggressive in their schedule of B787. I predict that it´ll fly next year and first delivery in 2010.
66 Art : Boeing have said that every day the strike goes on delays the 787 first flight by a day, or words to that effect. I don't expect Boeing to make an an
67 N14AZ : I would prefer next year. Imagine how many a-netters would have to check this forum during the Christmas holidays - I already saw myself secretly sne
68 Baroque : Now there is an assumption I dare to challenge. You are assuming that Christmas is not "cancelled due to circumstance apparently beyond our control"!
69 EbbUK : Well from what you have written the world's media will have less than 12 hours to get to Seattle to report on the first flight? That was not the case
70 SEPilot : I wish! Did you misread my profile, or is your map very different from mine? While I love the area I live in, I'll need awfully powerful binoculars t
71 AirNZ : Yes indeed, but to be fair though, Wings was commenting on a few shady posts and more of clarifying that Airbus had no problems getting the A380 into
72 EA772LR : I can only imagine...I'm watching a flick with a lady friend, and I say "excuse me, I need to use the restroom"....ahem...cough...check the latest ne
73 Tdscanuck : There's a *huge* difference between the schedule and the actual. Boeing will know what the scheduled first flight is considerably earlier, but that d
74 Post contains links Jambrain : Yes, don't forget that RR on the T1000 (and GE on the GEnx) are running a very comprehensive flight test program (on Rolls Royce's and GE's Boeing 74
75 BrianDromey : True, but there are guarantees associated with these airframes. If NW bought the aircraft in question on the basis that it could perform X whereas it
76 Post contains links Swallow : Very true. EA are very happy with the GP7200 saying it had a flawless EIS on the 380. The delays certainly helped RR and EA to refine the engine. EA
77 Revelation : You can read whatever you want into that quote. I didn't read nervousness, just a statement of fact, presumably in reply to a question. NWA wants the
78 Rheinbote : I really wonder whether Boeing's external communication would be different if Randy Basler was still in charge. Maybe he left the boat because he saw
79 Post contains links Scipio : No end in sight for the Boeing strike... The IAM postures that it has the resources to keep on striking for 5-6 more months. http://news.yahoo.com/s/a
80 WingedMigrator : I don't think that's likely just yet, but the A350-900 will almost certainly EIS before its most direct competitor, the future 787-10.
81 Post contains links Aviationbuff : Boeing still plans to complete 787 maiden flight this year http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...mplete-787-maiden-flight-this.html Only 2.5 months r
82 Baroque : Which parts of the work on the 787 can continue during the strike - at Boeing that is, obviously the other contributors should not be affected except
83 BrianDromey : It might happen, but I am assuming that Airbus will suffer some form of delays. In many ways the XWB is not as big a jump for A as the 787 was for B,
84 Post contains links Swallow : We have learned from Jon and Uresh (two respected A.netters) that: 1.Boeing's flight-test engineers are planning to start pre-flight tests on ZA001's
85 Baroque : Very interesting. So progress is indeed occurring. That seems a more useful line for discussion than various versions of Armageddon. Ouch!
86 Post contains links Jacobin777 : If Boeing is to be competitive in the playing field they need the best price/performance offers..the unions should have the right to bid..but just han
87 Keesje : Then airlines like UA, AA, KLM, AF, LH, CX, IB, US might look for alternatives I guess.
88 Art : Why bother to confirm the aim of Q4 first flight? If the target was reiterated after talks with the IAM broke down, I cannot see the purpose. Such st
89 STT757 : AA has been rumored to have secured delivery positions, as for UAL there's a strong possibility they will be merging with CO in the next two years. B
90 Stitch : AF and KL could use additional A330-200s via lease to tide them over until the 787-8 is available. The 787-9 is the minimum option for CX and LH. I'm
91 WINGS : Since when has Iberia became an A330 operator? But apart from that I agree that the A350XWB would be better suited to IB, CX and LH needs. Unless Boe
92 Stitch : Wiki says they have two on order. *shrug* I found a post here from a year ago saying they were coming from Garuda. I am guessing that never happened.
93 DocLightning : The problem is that these aren't cashiers and skycaps. These are aircraft technicians and engineers. Each and every one of those union workers has a
94 Frigatebird : But those 2020 delivery slots are are for buyers who express their first interest at this moment. AF/KL have made it clear a year ago that they need
95 JohnClipper : Did the B757/B767 program have any extensive delays?
96 Post contains links Keesje : http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...flightblogger-analysis-boeing.html So will Boeing again be the last to confirm what everybody knows? Is it a t
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