GSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3310 posts, RR: 2 Posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 14289 times:
My partner was on a DL flight MSY-ATL arriving ATL this evening (not sure the flight number) on a 757, and had a terrifying experience.
He said they were seconds from touching down - were actually over the runway, when the pilot gunned it so hard, that the plane shuddered violently. Before they knew it, the plane turned right so hard, that he seriously thought they were going upside down (he's a very frequent flyer, so he doesn't tend to embellish). He said as they turned, he was on the "ground" side, and he saw an Airtran tail terrifyingly close.
He said bins opened & spilled their contents, and he heard awful sounds that must have been cargo shifting violently below. The pilot came on the PA and said they'd been cleared to land, but an a/c that was supposed to hold inexplicably pulled onto the runway as they were about to touch down
Anyway, they landed later safely, and were cleared directly to a gate, where medics boarded to tend to (he assumed) people injured by the violent motions. Then, there was an army of uniformed DL personnel (all smiles) to meet the flight and assist pax.
He's been thru severe turbulence, and had an RJ nosedive once, which required a return to the airport, but he said this was the only flight he's ever been on where people actually screamed, and the first time he actually prayed during a flight.
I know there are frequently missed approaches, and I've experienced those myself, but this sounds like it's on an entirely different level. Would something like this make the news? Or, does ATL and/or the airlines keep a lid on these things when they happen? Seems you don't hear much about these sorts of things, even though ATL is the world's busiest airport.
Anyway, just thought I'd pass this along. Safe travels everyone!
Tu154m From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 687 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 14228 times:
Sounds like a runway incursion and a great job to the crew on the 757 for avoiding the other a/c!!!! At least he was able to tell you about this rather than have you read about it in the news. I am sure this will make local news.
DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 10401 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 14228 times:
Quoting GSPSPOT (Thread starter): I know there are frequently missed approaches, and I've experienced those myself, but this sounds like it's on an entirely different level. Would something like this make the news? Or, does ATL and/or the airlines keep a lid on these things when they happen? Seems you don't hear much about these sorts of things, even though ATL is the world's busiest airport.
Just depends on what happend in Atlanta. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.
I hope your partner along with everyone eles on the flight was ok.
BigSaabowski From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 14049 times:
You'll hear about it soon enough. It was flight 1772.
When landing 8L, it is not uncommon to see Airtran and ASA airplanes being tugged across the runway on the way to or from their respective hangars. This is obviously done by non pilots and sometimes there are communication issues with them. It doesn't appear to be the case this time as the 757 was landing on one of the southern runways.
IAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 13291 times:
Quoting BigSaabowski (Reply 5): This is obviously done by non pilots and sometimes there are communication issues with them
Even the non-pilot should be required to attend appropriate training so they know how to communicate effectively with Ground Control, especially if they have to cross runways. IMHO, the airport ops folks should take a more aggressive role in this area and provide a vehicle to escort the tugs across runways/taxiways if there has been a problem. It's been worked out at other locations when there have been comm issues with non-pilots operating on the airport.
This hazard should be eliminated, we already have enough issues with runway incursions without adding another element to situation.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
NEMA From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 787 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 13000 times:
In addition to the comments above....isnt it simply both natural behaviour and a professional action to keep a visual for other traffic when entering or joining a runway, this as well as to whatever ground might be saying?
There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
CVG2LGA From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 652 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12901 times:
SIDA training at my airport states that anyone operating onto the movement areas, runways, taxiways, must have FAA tower clearance.
I'm thinking that anyone who has business to be doing this knows how to communicate properly. We all can agree that knowing and doing are two different things.
But from the OP I get the sense that the aircraft taxied onto the runway instead of holding rather than being towed across. That's just what I read out of it, I'm not saying it was one way or the other because I don't know.
They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.
TAN FLYR From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1966 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12875 times:
One other quick thought...Thank goodness it was a 757..which seems to have the best response (Thrust to weight ratio) time in such circumstances. I had very good friend experience the same thing at DTW a few years back..also on a 757.
Maybe some other A.netters have hard data about other aircraft's performance potential in such situations. But FWIW, the 757 is probably at the top of the list.
DTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 12223 times:
Good job to the DL crew for taking this aircraft back up and landing it safely. I know they must be cleaning their shorts right now. As for the AirTran crew (ground) or other wise they should be subject to some kind of punishment. They could have cause one bad accident.
Soon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 12064 times:
For the last ten tears the FAA has embarkrd on a "Runway Incursion Campaign. They constantly send out fliers and posters reminding all pilots, that this problem is all to common and methods must be designed to help curb the number of occurences. As pax we are luckily unaware, most of the time that our aircraft was just involved in a runway incursion, however, some circumstances are too close for comfort and the crew must sometimes ignore tower commands and act on their own....this sounds like one of those cases. No doubt that the PAX were treated with golden gloves and that Corporate politically will find a rug in which to sweep this under, but that does not mean that corporate won't have a vested interest in the circumstances and timeline of the event.(incident).
787EWR From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11936 times:
I came into LGA a few years back on a DL 757. As we came over the lights on RWY 22, the nose suddenly went up. It felt like were were going vertical for a few seconds and then the nose eased back down. To be honest, while a bit unnerved, I was amazed at how hard the engines were running and how fast the plane got back to 3,000(or whatever it was). In our case, the plane that had just landed failed to clear the runway in time.
There was no major deviation in course like your partner mentioned.
As for the MSY-ATL flight, I don't know what the missed approach procedures are at ATL, but I know that due the dual runways on each side, most landing flights use the outer runway for touchdown. I can assume(remember I am just speculating) that there may have been another flight taking off on the inner runway and your pilot was doing all he could to make sure that he did not violate the airspace restrictions between the two. This would apply especially if the outbound flight was to turn in the direction of the outer runway.
Pilots practice these procedures all the time. Thankfully, they don't have to do it that often, but when they do, you know you are going to still make it.
Probably. It sees that when people who actually went through the experience, or in your case, you know of someone who went through it and post it on here the same day it happend or maybe a day or 2 later, that it will eventually make the news within 2-3 weeks or so. At least that's what I have noticed in the past. I remember reading on here a few years back about the Asiana 747 near miss at LAX with the WN 737, and within a month it was on the news. And I think there was a JFK near miss not too long ago that I read about on here and within 2 weeks it finally made the news.
AirTran717 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 746 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11272 times:
Runway incursions/ missed approaches happen daily. I was working a flight into BWI one night and it was snowing buckets. It was snowing so hard they couldn't clear the runway fast enough and we were about 50 ft off the ground and the capt. gunned the 717's engines to full power and we darted nearly straight up. I was in the jumpseat next to the L1 door, facing the cabin. Nothing like that feeling, having to brace against the lav wall. But it is unnerving to most passengers. Pilots are trained to fly the plane first and then deal with passengers. So most times we don't get updates from the flight deck until we are back in the approach pattern. But everyone is highly trained. As far as moving a/c around the AOA, I believe AirTran used our own mechanics and they are also highly trained.
They no doubt took an aggressive departure angle and degree of bank to avoid other air traffic. More than likely the plane on the ground just didn't clear the end of the runway in time. It's a common occurrence. Aside from the impressive flight characteristics of the 757, nothing else sounds out of the ordinary in this scenario. You'd be surprised at just exactly a commercial airliner is capable of when needed to do so. The 717 is capable of MTOW with only one engine, so it's more than able to perform.
Hats off to all involved... the flight crew and ATC.
Lexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2517 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10827 times:
Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 16): Could the hard turn be to avoid traffic taking off from one of the other rwys at ATL?
Not likely. There is a pretty good distance between the runways on both sides of the field. Taxiways are inbetween them as a matter of fact. Aircraft at ATL can takeoff while others are landing. Otherwise, it would cause one heck of a backup in the skies over north and south Georgia.
YYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10784 times:
Yes, but once airborne they need 3 miles separation, so perhaps if one was taking off they sent the aircraft in question on a different heading immediately so there would be no risk of loss of separation once back in TRACON airspace.
NW747-400 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 506 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10042 times:
Sounds like a normal low energy go-around procedure for Atlanta. If a runway incursion occurs just prior to touchdown, the landing aircraft will set go-around thrust (very intense on a light 757) and execute the go around. In Atlanta, the go-around procedures require pilots to execute a 90 degree turn at only 500' above the runway to avoid traffic departing from the inboard runways.
It can be quite spooky to passengers, but its a normal procedure.
: This is pure speculation here. Given the Flightaware track, it seems that DAL1772 may have been issued a landing clearance for RWY 9R. Another aircraf
: If ever you have to do a go around the 757 is THE airplane to be in with an excellent thrust to weight ratio. There is a video of one losing an engine
: Also, recall the runway incursion at FLL in 2007 where a UA A320 crossed in front of a Delta 757 as he was touching down, and he had to reject the la
: Sometimes there's also a dedicated ground control frequency used for rwy 28 (121.65) which makes it 5 frequency changes. I've seen plans for an end-a
: There is a JFK ground control tape on Youtube. After you listen to that you will see ground control with different eyes. Or they was this incident whe
: This is true at high alt but in the tracon/app phases planes are often less than 3 miles can you imagine alt and ord running apps with a/c more than
: Thank God everything worked out fine. That happened to me a little over a year ago flying into MSP on NW
: Happened to my daughter on an IND-ATL flight the Friday nite before the Superbowl. She is a very frequent flier......has experienced a lot of differen
: Especially a 757 that's light on fuel at this point.
: True. The minimums at ATL are not 3 miles. That would cause enough chaos just by itself that delays would be the least of your worries. There are man
: Methods and equipment are already in place. ATL has a ground position monitoring system for aircraft. I'm sure as soon as the AirTran aircraft crosse
: What? All's well that ends well, never mind eh, probably never happen again so let's not bother paying any attention to what seems like a very close
: The 757, as we all know, is an impressive powerhouse of an airplane. But any airliner at light weight can perform impressive avoidance maneuvers when
: Personally, I've never had flight doa go around coming into ATL, but working there for 8 yeas, I saw a bunch. The most... i guess impressive is a good
: Interesting, and very plausible. I don't know the technicalities of such things, but I know this was no normal "go around".
: Attempted to quote RussianJEt: Yes, actually, it was a weak attempt at sarcasm...[Edited 2008-10-10 16:38:04]
: How does this happen? Are the latches not fail safe...seems like this was more like a front loading washing machine door (locked when in use unless y