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Are Most Airlines Using Rfid For Bagagge Handling?  
User currently offlineQwame From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 129 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4132 times:

Are most airlines using RFID for their baggage handling and cargo or are most of them still using Barcode systems?

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10373 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4110 times:

I think DL is still using barcodes but I know that they have talked about RFID in the past.


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4084 times:

10 digit IATA barcode is still the standard...RFID has not entered the market as fast as was anticipated possibly due to the initial cost of installing printers/readers as well as the cost per tag....major carriers can print up to 1 million tags every 3-4 days. Adding to the problem is that more and more carriers are moving to common use counters and gates with common use IT hardware mandated by the airport to improve multicarrier counter and gate utilization. That is a whole other segment that would have to be brought over to RFID as well. While RFID has the potential to be far superior to barcode for sortation, tracking, and security the costs do not appear to be convincing the industry at this time.

Great idea....no money.


User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3661 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4056 times:

I thought this was more of an airport thing, at least at HKG, where they affix an HKIA RFID sticker to ones suitcase as it goes in its maze around the airport to ones plane. Always interesting, especially coming off US domestic flights to see which bags have been through HKG just because many don't remove that sticker. I know I don't.


The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4009 times:



Quoting AznMadSci (Reply 3):
I thought this was more of an airport thing, at least at HKG, where they affix an HKIA RFID sticker to ones suitcase as it goes in its maze around the airport to ones plane. Always interesting, especially coming off US domestic flights to see which bags have been through HKG just because many don't remove that sticker. I know I don't.

The RFID circuit and chip is now embedded in the luggage tag. No longer a separate sticker.

As far as I know, luggage tags are now supplied by the HKIA and cost about HK$1 (13 US cents) each to the airlines.



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User currently onlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3453 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3956 times:
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Excuse my ignorance but what is RFID?


I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3956 times:



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 5):
what is RFID

Radio Frequency Identification.

http://www.rfidjournal.com/


User currently onlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3453 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3936 times:
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Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 6):
Radio Frequency Identification.

Thank you ShyFlyer.



I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3872 times:



Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 4):
As far as I know, luggage tags are now supplied by the HKIA and cost about HK$1 (13 US cents) each to the airlines

Last price I heard for tags with both RFID and Barcode was USD 0.25 while Barcode only was USD 0.03. That 13 cents is a good improvement....if it get's under USD 0.10 it may start to become viable I would think.....especially if airport and security infrastructure could be tapped to help blunt the costs to the carriers....airport baggage systems would be more efficient with RFID compared to laser/barcode and security could locate the bag easily when needed which TSA, for one, would be in agreement with. Eventually simple RFID receivers could be mounted in the cargo holds of the aircraft to refine the location of baggage even onboard the bird....even being able to be interrogated from the ground when in flight.


User currently onlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3453 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3810 times:
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Could not find any pictures even at http://www.rfidjournal.com/


I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlineQwame From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 129 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3755 times:



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 9):
RFID

http://images.google.com/images?sour...l&q=RFID&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi


User currently offlineLuv2cattlecall From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3693 times:
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Las Vegas already RFID's all outbound bags...TSA takes advantage of this somehow

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 8):
Last price I heard for tags with both RFID and Barcode was USD 0.25 while Barcode only was USD 0.03. That 13 cents is a good improvement....if it get's under USD 0.10 it may start to become viable I would think.....especially if airport and security infrastructure could be tapped to help blunt the costs to the carriers....airport baggage systems would be more efficient with RFID compared to laser/barcode and security could locate the bag easily when needed which TSA, for one, would be in agreement with. Eventually simple RFID receivers could be mounted in the cargo holds of the aircraft to refine the location of baggage even onboard the bird....even being able to be interrogated from the ground when in flight.

True...especially since, for example, US airways found the change for a bag of pretzels going from 1 cent to 1.4 cents to be too much!

Last year, BA, for example, misplaced 26 out of 1000 bags. For 1000 bags, it would currently cost $130 for RFIDs, so even if RFIDs could help prevent 8% of bag misplacements from occurring, they more or less pay for themselves. When B6 misplaced my bag recently, I was amazed to learn that they have no clue where in the system it is...I figured that bags were scanned at each point of contact, but I suppose that would be time consuming. With RFID, they could put readers in the bag carts, in the cargo hold door like you said, etc...

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 9):
Could not find any pictures even at http://www.rfidjournal.com/

RFID is the same tech used in prox cards, which many employers incorporate into badges for access...those are the things you tap to the black square readers. They're also used in the pellets injected into the neck of dogs/cats that can be scanned if the animal is lost.

Here's an AA bag tag with an RFID built into it...




The tiny dot in the middle is the chip that contains a unique identifier code - not unlike a bar code (the only real advantage of RFIDs over bar codes is the time savings and accuracy of reading each bag's assigned number/ID) and the metallic wire is the coil which acts as both an antenna and as an energy "grabber" - this allows the RFID chips to work without needing an integrated battery. These are known as passive RFIDs, and is what is feasible for airline use. The other type is active RFIDs, which have their own batteries, and much greater range - this is what's used in toll-transponders and such. Hpe that helps!



When you have to breaststroke to your connecting flight...it's a crash!
User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3661 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3642 times:



Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 4):
The RFID circuit and chip is now embedded in the luggage tag. No longer a separate sticker.

Just out of curiosity how recent is this? I was there in March and have the stickers on my suitcases, and will possibly be heading back in November. Would one now get the embedded RFID luggage tag even if they checked in at Airport Express stations?



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3619 times:



Quoting AznMadSci (Reply 12):
Just out of curiosity how recent is this? I was there in March and have the stickers on my suitcases, and will possibly be heading back in November. Would one now get the embedded RFID luggage tag even if they checked in at Airport Express stations?

I don't have an exact date but I first saw it in use back in April on a Dragon flight. It may also depend on the airline as Cathay and Dragon were the first airlines to change over.

Printing and attaching the luggage tag itself is no different before and after the change over so there is no reason the Airport Express checkins would use the old tag.



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User currently onlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3453 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3563 times:
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Quoting Luv2cattlecall (Reply 11):
Hpe that helps!

That was a great help.Thank you very much.  thumbsup 



I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently onlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3453 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3546 times:
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The only way i could see this working is by placing the RFID inside the luggage.Otherwise why it will not subject to falling or tearing like the old tags?


I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlineNQYGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3533 times:

Are all 'big' airports equipped? Just you mention Cathay Pacific has it, but what would happen if you say..went from HKG to LHR, and then transferred onto BA or something? Is LHR equipped, or is there still a barcode backup there too?

User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3379 times:



Quoting NQYGuy (Reply 16):
Are all 'big' airports equipped? Just you mention Cathay Pacific has it, but what would happen if you say..went from HKG to LHR, and then transferred onto BA or something? Is LHR equipped, or is there still a barcode backup there too?

The barcode is still printed on each tag for those airports not equipped with RFID readers.



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineGoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3252 times:

I know AF was testing RFID on CDG-AMS route. I don't know the status of this now but I don't think it's been used on their entire network yet.

User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3034 times:

First off the infrastructure in a baggage sortation system is quite simpler with RFID....bardcode laser scanners invariably need to be positioned so that they cover 360 degrees plus leading and trailing and that is to achieve a 90% read rate at best...using standard laser heads that could mean an eight head array....and the more times a tag is handled the less it reads as it becomes wrinkled. Not to mention the idiots that put yarn and other stuff on the handles so they can spot their bags in the claim area not understanding that those items can and do block the laser from scanning the tag.

RFID requires a single receiver for the same application with a plus 95% success rate with no issues with beatup tags and blocking items on the same handle. Therefore when airport authorities look to building newer facilities the use of RFID becomes attractive as an actual initial cost saving.

However...the cost of the individual tag is still multiple times higher than a barcode tag...requires all new hardware to produce those tags....hardware that must produce both barcode and RFID is more expensive...the tag stock is more expensive.

Where to place the chip has been a debate point....inside the bag tag is one way...embed a chip into the luggage permanently has been discussed....give your frequent travelers a name tag with a chip inside....but then would any type of permanent chip require an updating on checkin...or just the data attached to it? What would you need to do for your infrequent travelers? And you still have to produce a human readable tag with barcodes for systems not RFID.


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2908 times:



Quoting Luv2cattlecall (Reply 11):
I figured that bags were scanned at each point of contact, but I suppose that would be time consuming.

This depends on the airline. Last time I flew UA they did (and I was amazed on an interline itenerary that the gate agent could tell me, just because I was a little nervous (first time interlining) where my bag was several times, including the time it was loaded on the aircraft )

NW on the other hand didn't/doesn't.

I think CO does, at least at the hubs; sit on the starbord side and you can watch the rampers scanning bags as they move them from the carts to the belt-- doesn't really seem to add any time, agent has scanner in one hand grabs bag with other scans, throws it on the belt, more or less in one fluid action.



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineKingAir200 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1611 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2764 times:



Quoting Lincoln (Reply 20):
NW on the other hand didn't/doesn't.

NWA does in fact scan bags planeside.



Hey Swifty
User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2707 times:



Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 21):
NWA does in fact scan bags planeside.

I stand corrected. Any idea when that started? A few years ago (after the UA story above) I did DL->NW and I got a funky vibe about the way the bag was accepted in SAN so at DTW, I asked the NW (Airlink) agent if she could confirm that the bag had been received from DL.

She "guaranteed" that my bag was "on the plane" and I didn't need to worry [It was the last flight to PLN of the evening and I wanted to make sure I would have clothes in the morning]

Get to PLN...wait for bags... no bag. Turns out it was vacactioning in ATL overnight and I got it the next afternoon killing most of a day of vaction. So the agent flat out lied to me-- NW had never even seen the bag on that day.

Flag down supervisor on the way back through DTW and supervisor just tells me "I don't know why anyone would have told you that; we have no way of knowing when a bag has been loaded on an aircraft...."



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineJanmnastami From Italy, joined Apr 2008, 828 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2703 times:

On September 2007 the company which runs MXP's airport announced the introduction of RFID system (with UHF frequencies) for all the carriers; the use of RFID started in terminal 2 but I don't know if it has been extended to terminal 1.

In the press release, it was written that the first airports to use RFID were Hong-Kong and Las Vegas and that MXP was the first to introduce it in Europe (exluding experiments).


Aug. 3, 2007—Next month, Milan's Malpensa Airport will begin installing an RFID system to track baggage, as part of an effort to reduce the cost of baggage handling at one of Italy's largest airports. Malpensa signed a contract with Denmark's Lyngsoe Systems to install and integrate a system in Milan that is nearly identical to one used at Hong Kong International Airport (see Airport Says Payback Is in the Bag).
Jan Poulsen, a sales manager for airport solutions at Lyngsoe, who is working with the Milan airport, says, "This is the first RFID baggage-handling system for commercial use to be installed in Europe. Up until now, there have only been pilots."

(From The RFID Journal.com)
http://www.rfidjournal.com/article/articleview/3534/

[Edited 2008-10-12 09:03:26]

[Edited 2008-10-12 09:06:56]

User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2648 times:

At UA the policy is that the bag is scanned when it is touched....at smaller stations when it goes in or comes out of an aircraft....at larger stations scans include going thru baggage systems as well as into containers and on gate to gate transfers.

25 KingAir200 : I can't say for sure, but I think it's been in the neighborhood of 5 years.
26 FlyDeltaJets : DL does planeside bag scanning no RFID technology. The planeside scanning is not system wide yet.
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