OyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 1712 posts, RR: 3 Posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 27999 times:
According to SAS the CRJ-900NG is due to enter service with them this fall and I thought it might be a good idea to have a delivery thread so we can follow this event. According to another forum (Scanair) The first CRJ will arrive in CPH in November and EIS in December. With this thread I hope we can follow the planes from factory to Denmark and discuss the possible routes and the planes role in SAS. And maybe it's anticipated performance and layout. This is an exciting moment for SAS and hopes are high for this new plane.
Starting with the first interesting part about this thread. Have anyone been able to take pictures of the plane/planes in production yet? How far is the first plane from completion?
Have anyone seen the delivery dates for the rest of the airplanes? 7 will arrive before next summer.
I cannot wait to see this plane in SAS livery. Does anyone know how many seats SAS will put in the CRJ900, and what kind of seating arrangement they will choose? Example. how good pitch will these planes offer?
Talking about the CRJ900 I wonder if the following statements are true:The CRJ900 cost 20% more to operate than the Q400, but offers 12% more seats. The CRJ1000NG uses almost half the fuel than the MD-80.
The routes announced are AAR and AAL and these cities will be served by three airplanes. What other routes can we expect for the CRJ900NG?
SAS hopes to have the same success as LH has with theirs and really hopes it lives up to Bombardiers promises. If it does we might see more than 13 CRJ900 NextGen in SAS colors, and perhaps in Norway and Sweden as well
Lets wish for the best!
I am putting in a computer image of the plane, just to give us an idea of what we can expect.
Copyright - SASGroup.net
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
Larshjort From Denmark, joined Dec 2007, 532 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 27934 times:
As soon as it is confirmed when the first flights to AAL or AAR will be, I'm definately going to try them, they will be a different experience than the old MD80's.
Alanelrfc From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2008, 40 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 27815 times:
Hi,
Any chance of seeing them on the Manchester route?
I have heard that SAS might want to have a nightstop service sometime in the near future. Could this mean they will use the CR9?
OyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 1712 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 27693 times:
Quoting Larshjort (Reply 1): As soon as it is confirmed when the first flights to AAL or AAR will be, I'm definately going to try them, they will be a different experience than the old MD80's.
I am eager to fly them as well. But will the take-off be just as breathtaking as on the MD-80? The power to weight ratio is better on the CRJ-900
I really doubt that they will have 1+2 in C, they'll stick to having 2+2 -1 on each side in C, but it would be more economical to have 1+2, because they will be able to sell all three seats instead of only 2 in 2+2.
Race car driving is like sex... All men think they're good at it!
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 1449 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 27312 times:
Quoting LH4116 (Reply 9):
What about SAS Sweden? Aren't they also supposed to get some CRJ-900s?
No, not at this time. But if SAS DK is happy with them, maybe other parts of the SAS group will get them later. In adition to the 13 on firm order, they also have 17 options.
Doona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3289 posts, RR: 14 Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 27259 times:
Quoting LH4116 (Reply 9): I really doubt that they will have 1+2 in C, they'll stick to having 2+2 -1 on each side in C, but it would be more economical to have 1+2, because they will be able to sell all three seats instead of only 2 in 2+2.
Does anyone know how many seats in total the SK planes will have? Wikipedia says 88, which seems to rule out the 2+1 config, unless C-class is limited to a couple of rows... (poor source, I know).
Any chance that there won't even be a proper (sic) C-class onboard, and SK will go with Economy Extra instead?
Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 14381 posts, RR: 12 Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 27228 times:
The CRJ does indeed look great in SAS livery. Hope we will see some of them at ARN too.
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 1449 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks ago) and read 27105 times:
Quoting LH4116 (Reply 9): I really doubt that they will have 1+2 in C, they'll stick to having 2+2 -1 on each side in C, but it would be more economical to have 1+2, because they will be able to sell all three seats instead of only 2 in 2+2.
They will get 2+2, and remember while SAS blocks the middle seat in C, when there are no middle seat, they don't do like LH and block the aisle seat. In their MD-80, while there is a blocked middle seat in the 3 seater, there are pax on both the seats in the two-seater (A+B)
Quoting Doona (Reply 11): Does anyone know how many seats in total the SK planes will have? Wikipedia says 88, which seems to rule out the 2+1 config, unless C-class is limited to a couple of rows... (poor source, I know).
AFAIK, SAS has said they will have 88 seats
Quoting Doona (Reply 11): Any chance that there won't even be a proper (sic) C-class onboard, and SK will go with Economy Extra instead?
That depends on the route and not on the aircraft. They had 3-classes in their Q400 on several routes so why shouldt the CRJ get the same
LH4116 From Sweden, joined Aug 2007, 965 posts, RR: 5 Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 27084 times:
Quoting Someone83 (Reply 13): They will get 2+2, and remember while SAS blocks the middle seat in C, when there are no middle seat, they don't do like LH and block the aisle seat. In their MD-80, while there is a blocked middle seat in the 3 seater, there are pax on both the seats in the two-seater (A+B)
Wouldn't it be more economical for SAS to install 4 abreast on the MD-80? I believe that the C seats on the left side in the 736 is only two seats with an armrest between them, so installing two pairs of those they will be able to sell 4 C seats per row.
Race car driving is like sex... All men think they're good at it!
Tobseren From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 22 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 26896 times:
I was told from a pilot, who is gonna fly one of the CRJ's, that they will get the first in December.
Also i know that one of the CRJ's are gonna fly to Moscow/Sheremetyevo (i looked for flights to Moscow in 2009, because of the Eurovision Song Contest)
SKAirbus From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2007, 628 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 26799 times:
Quoting Tobseren (Reply 16): Also i know that one of the CRJ's are gonna fly to Moscow/Sheremetyevo (i looked for flights to Moscow in 2009, because of the Eurovision Song Contest)
No thanks.. im not sitting a CRJ for almost 3 hours.... CPH-MUC was bad enough...
I'm going with Aeroflot.. half the price of SAS and more comfortable seating with full service!
Next flights: LHR-OSL-LHR (SK), LHR-DXB-ICN-DXB-LHR (EK)
LH4116 From Sweden, joined Aug 2007, 965 posts, RR: 5 Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 26640 times:
Quoting Someone83 (Reply 10): No, not at this time. But if SAS DK is happy with them, maybe other parts of the SAS group will get them later. In adition to the 13 on firm order, they also have 17 options.
Well it would seem pretty logical if SAS SE got them since they also had Q400s, i'm pretty sure that SE will get at least one or two.
Race car driving is like sex... All men think they're good at it!
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 1449 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 26630 times:
Quoting LH4116 (Reply 14): Wouldn't it be more economical for SAS to install 4 abreast on the MD-80? I believe that the C seats on the left side in the 736 is only two seats with an armrest between them, so installing two pairs of those they will be able to sell 4 C seats per row.
They are selling 4 C seats per row on the MD-80 today, and the 2 seater on the first rows on the 737 are soon gone as the 737 fleet are getting the new slimline seats. They only have a few aircrafts left with this config.
The problem with this old config is that is reduces the flexibility as C-class on some flight are 0 rows, meaning less economy seats to be sold
Quoting LH4116 (Reply 18): Well it would seem pretty logical if SAS SE got them since they also had Q400s, i'm pretty sure that SE will get at least one or two.
ALL the then 10 CRJ-900 destined for SAS are going to SAS Denmark. SAS has specifically said so. However, what they will do with their 17 options is a open question
Quoting Tobseren (Reply 16): I was told from a pilot, who is gonna fly one of the CRJ's, that they will get the first in December.
LH4116 From Sweden, joined Aug 2007, 965 posts, RR: 5 Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 26613 times:
Quoting Someone83 (Reply 19): They are selling 4 C seats per row on the MD-80 today, and the 2 seater on the first rows on the 737 are soon gone as the 737 fleet are getting the new slimline seats. They only have a few aircrafts left with this config.
Why are they replacing the old seats with new slimlines? I find the old seats to be very comfortable, the slimlines on the other hand are hard, uncomfortable, the tray tables are loose and they look and feel very cheap.
Race car driving is like sex... All men think they're good at it!
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 1449 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 26488 times:
Quoting LH4116 (Reply 20): Why are they replacing the old seats with new slimlines? I find the old seats to be very comfortable, the slimlines on the other hand are hard, uncomfortable, the tray tables are loose and they look and feel very cheap.
It's all 'bout the money......
With the new seats they are able to cramp in another row or two (depending on the aircraft)
OyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 1712 posts, RR: 3 Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 26307 times:
Quoting Someone83 (Reply 13): Quoting Doona (Reply 11):
Does anyone know how many seats in total the SK planes will have? Wikipedia says 88, which seems to rule out the 2+1 config, unless C-class is limited to a couple of rows... (poor source, I know).
AFAIK, SAS has said they will have 88 seats
88 seats!? I thought maximum was 86 seats in the CRJ900.. Guess I was wrong
Quoting LH4116 (Reply 20): Why are they replacing the old seats with new slimlines? I find the old seats to be very comfortable, the slimlines on the other hand are hard, uncomfortable, the tray tables are loose and they look and feel very cheap.
Quoting Someone83 (Reply 21): With the new seats they are able to cramp in another row or two (depending on the aircraft)
And although I miss the added headrest, the new seats works absolutely fine. I feel it is less cramped with the new seats. Just flew the 736 with 126 seats. It did not feel cramped, and I am 188CM tall and just as wide They looked good, and are not cheap.
Does anyone know if it will be the same seat type in the CRJ?
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
CityAirline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 466 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 26282 times:
Quoting FBU 4EVER! (Reply 2): CPH-GOT will be a likely destination early on.
I hope so. The early morning flights to CPH are better of with the MD80s, but there are a number of midday rotations where those are just too big. The CR9 would do great on this route, and they would only have to use one aircraft to be able to operate multiple daily flights to GOT as it is only a 45 minutes flight.
We get some LH CR9s every day, and they're great to see. It is really a good looking aircraft, especially in SK colors.
Oby From Denmark, joined Aug 2008, 80 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 26082 times:
So the new planes will all go to SAS Denmark, ofthe mainline SAS companies. They will be flying old Q400 routes and do it faster, but at a greater cost?
CRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 1666 posts, RR: 2 Reply 25, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 26058 times:
Quoting OyKIE (Reply 22): 88 seats!? I thought maximum was 86 seats in the CRJ900.
Pluna, MyAir, Air One, AtlasJet and Air Nostrum all have 90 seats in their CRJ900s (all with 31 inch pitch). If you drop one lavatory you can have 92 seats. Now, that would make it very low-CASM, I'm sure...
OyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 1712 posts, RR: 3 Reply 26, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 26233 times:
Quoting Oby (Reply 24): So the new planes will all go to SAS Denmark, ofthe mainline SAS companies. They will be flying old Q400 routes and do it faster, but at a greater cost?
Hi Oby! All planes will initially go to SAS Denmark. If they are satisfied, Norway and Denmark might get some airplanes later on. With 88 seats the CRJ-900 has more than 25% more seats, so even if it costs 20% more to operate, they better fill those seats. But some low density routes that the Q400 flew before, might not be sustained with the CRJ-900.
Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 25): Pluna, MyAir, Air One, AtlasJet and Air Nostrum all have 90 seats in their CRJ900s (all with 31 inch pitch). If you drop one lavatory you can have 92 seats. Now, that would make it very low-CASM, I'm sure...
Wow! I was not aware of this. Do you know what the pitch will be like in with 88 seats? In the seating chart in Inside SAS, I see that they have row 13. I now SAS did not have row 13 for many years as many travellers thought it was bad luck to be seated in row 13. Is this the same for all SAS plane, or will row 13 be a first onboard the CRJ-900?
Quoting FBU 4EVER! (Reply 2): Most likely destinations apart from AAL and AAR will be Hamburg and Hannover. CPH-GOT will be a likely destination early on. Also CPH-KRS.
What do you think will happen to CPH-HAU? I was there on friday and the plane was a white F50 with no logos. and it did not appear to have a Scandinavian reg.
From the article it says that SAS has changed something from the original layout. An extra toilet and lavatory is in place. Further on the article says that the interior has been locked as the CRJ are already in production. Does that mean that from SAS ordered the plane in March untill now is to short time to change the interior in the plane?
But this might be a good thing. SAS has been having the habit of wanting to change everything with a new airplane, and that makes their planes very expensive. So this might be a good thing that they are not able to change allot. Might be a thing of the past to change everything?
6 captains went to Canada in late September for a four week practice. The next four pilots left on 13th of October, and should be in Montreal right now.
10 mechanics are with Lufthansa and are getting "on the job" training with the new equipment.
So hopefully the CRJ will start up in December without to many troubles.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 1449 posts, RR: 1 Reply 27, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 26199 times:
Quoting OyKIE (Reply 26): What do you think will happen to CPH-HAU? I was there on friday and the plane was a white F50 with no logos. and it did not appear to have a Scandinavian reg.
Widerøe will close the CPH-HAU route. The white F50 was probably one of Denim's F50 which WF currently is wet-leasing due to shortage of aircrafts
Quoting OyKIE (Reply 26): In the seating chart in Inside SAS, I see that they have row 13. I now SAS did not have row 13 for many years as many travellers thought it was bad luck to be seated in row 13. Is this the same for all SAS plane, or will row 13 be a first onboard the CRJ-900?
It might be a mistake in Inside and that row 13 will be renamed row 14 when the plane is delivered?
PlaneWasted From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 330 posts, RR: 0 Reply 29, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 26050 times:
I remember flying Q400 on ARN-Berlin. Will this route be MD-80 in the coming years or?
Why does SAS Sweden have all the old airplanes? When I was in OSL there was 737-8s everywhere.
OyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 1712 posts, RR: 3 Reply 30, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 25843 times:
Quoting Someone83 (Reply 27): It might be a mistake in Inside and that row 13 will be renamed row 14 when the plane is delivered?
Maybe... I have not seen this before
Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 28): You have a seat map for the SAS CRJ900? Me also want one
Yep. I have, but I am not able to provide a link. An error appears. If you go to sasgroup.net, then click on the tab Media center, then Read Inside SAS. You will find it on issue number 6, page 16.
Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 28): Standard CRJ900 config is two lavs. Will SAS have a third?
It seems like it has one in the front, but I do not have the article here at work...
Quoting PlaneWasted (Reply 29): I remember flying Q400 on ARN-Berlin. Will this route be MD-80 in the coming years or?
Why does SAS Sweden have all the old airplanes? When I was in OSL there was 737-8s everywhere.
SAS Norway has old planes as well. They have several 735 and 734, so they are not the only one. The reason why SAS Norway has gotten new planes this years and last years is because they are making money. Or at least used to...
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
Lamox From Norway, joined Oct 2008, 41 posts, RR: 0 Reply 33, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 25570 times:
As far as I know, the schedule for entry of CRJ900 into SAS service is as follows:
First CRJ900 will arrive in CPH 30th nov. It will go through SAS modifications; firefighting equipment etc, until 5th dec, when it will start operating line instruction flights for pilots, operating short leg roundtrips like CPH-GOT-AAL-AAR-HAM-CPH for the pilots to get the minimum amount of sectors to fly with pax...
First scheduled flight for the CRJ900 will be SK1207 CPH-AAL 17th Dec at 0945 am.
Next destinations in line will be AAR and BHX. Thereafter there will be some flights testing the CRJ900 on long routes with limited number of pax booked, among these an extra departure from CPH to Rome and Moscow, and thereafter other SAS destinations; SVG, GDN, LUX, BRU will follow as the aircraft arrives; one per month... SVG will be the first destination for the CRJ900 in Norway, and by the end of the summer, all the six daily flights from SVG to CPH will be operated by the CRJ900 instead of the Atlantic Bae146. Destinations served by Cimber CRJ200 is the last to be taken over by the 900.
Just for info; I saw the first SAS CR9 flightplan last week: CPH-BGO, with fuel used 1,8 tons, and flying time 1:02. The identical plan for the MD87 was 3,7 tons of fuel, and flying time 1:06. Quite a big saving, although the CR9 takes 37 pax less than the MD. Those last 37 pax are very rarely onboard on the route anyway.
OyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 1712 posts, RR: 3 Reply 34, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 25476 times:
First of all: Welcome to Airliners.net Lamox!
Quoting Lamox (Reply 33): First CRJ900 will arrive in CPH 30th nov. It will go through SAS modifications; firefighting equipment etc, until 5th dec, when it will start operating line instruction flights for pilots, operating short leg roundtrips like CPH-GOT-AAL-AAR-HAM-CPH for the pilots to get the minimum amount of sectors to fly with pax...
So it will be possible to fly the CRJ900 before 17th of December? Cannot wait to see it live
Quoting Lamox (Reply 33): Just for info; I saw the first SAS CR9 flightplan last week: CPH-BGO, with fuel used 1,8 tons, and flying time 1:02. The identical plan for the MD87 was 3,7 tons of fuel, and flying time 1:06. Quite a big saving, although the CR9 takes 37 pax less than the MD. Those last 37 pax are very rarely onboard on the route anyway.
Do you know what the Q400 would burn, just for comparison? Makes me wonder why SAS is not taking more CRJ900. Didn't they have 18 MD-87 once?
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
Lamox From Norway, joined Oct 2008, 41 posts, RR: 0 Reply 35, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 25433 times:
Thanks! Have been just looking for I while, but now I have paid to write as well...
The flights before 17th Dec is training flights only, with pilots, cabin attendants, and to some extent mechanics being trained by Bombardier personnel, and unfortunately no pax allowed.
It's been a while, but a "guesstimate" for the Q400 would be around 1.4 tons. Again; that is just a guess, while the numbers for CR9 and M87 are exact number form flightplans under identical conditions.
"Almost confirmed" rumours says that the first 3 of the options have now been changed to firm orders, and two more are in the pipeline. SAS DK requirement is minimum 15 CR9 (their wish is 17), so if that happens, there is 12 options left available for NO and SE. To get the full benefit of the huge discount received from Bombardier, SAS will have to take deliveries of all the options (they can of course sell them after delivery…), so I believe that all 27 CRJ900 will be delivered. The firm orders are fixed to CRJ900, but all options can be converted to CRJ1000NG with the same discount.
Doona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3289 posts, RR: 14 Reply 36, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 25303 times:
Quoting OyKIE (Reply 34): Didn't they have 18 MD-87 once?
According to Airfleets.net they now operate six of the type, with a history of 14 and one written off in an accident (Linate), bringing it to a total of 21 aircraft. Of course, I don't know if all 21 were operated at the same time...
Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
OyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 1712 posts, RR: 3 Reply 37, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 25254 times:
Quoting Lamox (Reply 35): Thanks! Have been just looking for I while, but now I have paid to write as well...
Cool! Even though I spend more time on here after paying, it is worth it
Quoting Lamox (Reply 35): The flights before 17th Dec is training flights only, with pilots, cabin attendants, and to some extent mechanics being trained by Bombardier personnel, and unfortunately no pax allowed.
To shame, but understandable We'll just have to wait. I remember when SAS got the A340 it was used on flights in Scandinavia for training purposes and accepting passenger, so I assumed that this would happen to the CRJ900 as well, but I guess as short range as it has, there is no need to do it.
Quoting Lamox (Reply 35): It's been a while, but a "guesstimate" for the Q400 would be around 1.4 tons. Again; that is just a guess, while the numbers for CR9 and M87 are exact number form flightplans under identical conditions.
So the CRJ-900 might use less fuel on some routes? That is amazing! Is it because the Q400 pushed it's economical speed in order to get there as fast?
Quoting Lamox (Reply 35): Almost confirmed" rumours says that the first 3 of the options have now been changed to firm orders, and two more are in the pipeline. SAS DK requirement is minimum 15 CR9 (their wish is 17), so if that happens, there is 12 options left available for NO and SE.
Interesting. Thank you for sharing!
Quoting Lamox (Reply 35): To get the full benefit of the huge discount received from Bombardier, SAS will have to take deliveries of all the options (they can of course sell them after delivery...), so I believe that all 27 CRJ900 will be delivered.
Lets hope so!
Quoting Lamox (Reply 35): The firm orders are fixed to CRJ900, but all options can be converted to CRJ1000NG with the same discount.
It would be kind of cool if SAS opted for the CRJ1000NG. Almost as fuel efficient. But perhaps a longer turnaround time?
Quoting Doona (Reply 36): According to Airfleets.net they now operate six of the type, with a history of 14 and one written off in an accident (Linate), bringing it to a total of 21 aircraft. Of course, I don't know if all 21 were operated at the same time...
Thank you for that research. It has been a while since i knew the whole SAS fleet, so I might be off with the number being 18.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 1449 posts, RR: 1 Reply 38, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 25229 times:
Thanks for the info Lamox.
Do you think there are any chances SAS DK eventually might start som new "longer" routes (Southern or Eastern Europe) to smaller destinations with their new CRJs?
Doona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3289 posts, RR: 14 Reply 39, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 25169 times:
Quoting OyKIE (Reply 37): Thank you for that research. It has been a while since i knew the whole SAS fleet, so I might be off with the number being 18.
You might still be right, it appears that Airfleets.net counts re-registered A/C as "history", which means that re-registered planes are noted in their lists more than once.
Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
Lamox From Norway, joined Oct 2008, 41 posts, RR: 0 Reply 40, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 25137 times:
Quoting Someone83 (Reply 38): Do you think there are any chances SAS DK eventually might start som new "longer" routes (Southern or Eastern Europe) to smaller destinations with their new CRJs?
From late summer, the routes from CPH to Kiev and Bucharest, both around 2:30 will be flown by the CRJ-900, in addition to some flights to Moscow, Rome and Nice (which will be in addition to the daily A321 flights, and not instead of...). The biggest problem is that SAS DK do not operate as many southern europe routes as NO og SE. They had a group planning new routes to these areas with all AC types, but I think it was stopped/postponed with the latest network reductions. Hopefully this will be back on track with the arrival of an AC type that limit the risk, with rather low costs as a test on new destinations in the south/east Europe.
Lufthansa have big success with their Munich-Yerevan night flights with the CRJ900, with block time of more than 4 hours. Some may think it is too small, but using larger aircraft would just not be an alternative. AC change to some local Armenian airline in Moscow, and thereby 2-3 hrs ekstra flying time is not a very good alternative...
Quoting OyKIE (Reply 37): So the CRJ-900 might use less fuel on some routes? That is amazing! Is it because the Q400 pushed it's economical speed in order to get there as fast?
I dont think that would be possible. The CRJ900 is very fuel economical compared to MD, and also compared to older CRJ200 (considering the extra pax), but as mentioned it is 4-500 ekstra kg for the CPH-BGO route compared to the Q400. I doubt there are any routes within the Q400 range (which is half av the CR9 range) where it would use less fuel.
OyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 1712 posts, RR: 3 Reply 41, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 24955 times:
Quoting Lamox (Reply 40): dont think that would be possible. The CRJ900 is very fuel economical compared to MD, and also compared to older CRJ200 (considering the extra pax), but as mentioned it is 4-500 extra kg for the CPH-BGO route compared to the Q400. I doubt there are any routes within the Q400 range (which is half av the CR9 range) where it would use less fuel
Sorry. I was in a hurry, while reading so I thought it stood 1.02 tonnes of fuel on the CRJ900... But when I re-read your reply it says 1,8 tonnes. Still pretty impressive.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
OyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 1712 posts, RR: 3 Reply 42, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 24660 times:
According to another forum the CRJ-900 is not capable of flying into LCY. Is this true? And if it is true, then why? Is it due to the length of the plane or the inability to follow the flight plan to LCY with steep approach? SAS has some frequencies here, and it would be better to fly in on their own rather than wet leasing equipment right?
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
Clydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 208 posts, RR: 0 Reply 43, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 24585 times:
Quoting OyKIE (Reply 42): According to another forum the CRJ-900 is not capable of flying into LCY. Is this true? And if it is true, then why? Is it due to the length of the plane or the inability to follow the flight plan to LCY with steep approach? SAS has some frequencies here, and it would be better to fly in on their own rather than wet leasing equipment right?
None of the CRJ series are certified for LCY. I don't think they could anyway.
The issues are Steep Approach, Very short runway , and obstacles on take off where a four enging aircraft has an advantage.
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 1449 posts, RR: 1 Reply 44, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 24583 times:
With regards to SAS and LCY; SAS has not stated what their long term plans are. Currently Atlantic Airways are flying on SAS behalf CPH-LCY, while Transwede operates ARN-LCY and OSL-LCY. Whether this solution will continue or if SAS are planning on something else has not been announced by SAS at this moment
Lamox From Norway, joined Oct 2008, 41 posts, RR: 0 Reply 45, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 24560 times:
SAS alternatives are:
- Continued wet lease of Atlantic and Transwede.
- Aquisition of A318, which is certified for LCY.
- Hope for certification of the CRJ-900 to LCY.
I know there is ongoing work to get the CRJ certified, but there is quite a few obstacles ahead, related to the steep approach, rynway and obstacles. Older CRJ did not get certification, but the CRJ-700/900 have wing slats, which can reduce speeds and thereby maybe make it easier to fulfill RW and obstacle reqs.
The Q400 also had its prolems getting certification for LCY, but was finally certified wtih the limitation of hand flying approach only, without the use of autopilot or flight director.
I am not so sure about that. The 736 is 31,2 meter long. The A318 is 31,45 meter long. The wingspan on the 736 is 34,3 meters and on the A318 is 34,10 meters. Pretty similar if you ask me.
But the 736 is not certified for steep approaches, and I believe this is why the A318 can land at LCY, while the 736 cannot. The 736 with the short-field performance from the 738 delivered to GOL and Varig should be able to go to LCY.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
CRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 1666 posts, RR: 2 Reply 49, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 24209 times:
Which version will SAS use, the -standard range, the -ER or -LR? If they are flying mostly 45-60-minute flights, it makes little sense to have a heavy aircraft, if airport fees are based on MTOW...?
Will the galley have ovens, for enhanced Biz class service?
Lamox From Norway, joined Oct 2008, 41 posts, RR: 0 Reply 50, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 24119 times:
All SAS CRJ900 will be the -LR version. According to the project group, the benefit of all CRJ900 being able to fly from CPH to all european SAS destinations far exeeds the extra cost of purchase and higher airport fees.
Regarding the number of ovens I am not that sure, but I think they finally ended at 3 ovens.
CRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 1666 posts, RR: 2 Reply 51, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 23970 times:
Quoting Lamox (Reply 50): All SAS CRJ900 will be the -LR version. According to the project group, the benefit of all CRJ900 being able to fly from CPH to all european SAS destinations far exeeds the extra cost of purchase and higher airport fees.
Smart move, now they'll have a very flexible aircraft.
Quoting Lamox (Reply 50): Regarding the number of ovens I am not that sure, but I think they finally ended at 3 ovens.
Three?! LH's -900 galley is tight with two ovens. Can't wait to see how they pull that one off
Lamox From Norway, joined Oct 2008, 41 posts, RR: 0 Reply 52, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 23913 times:
As mentioned; Not quite sure about those ovens. The problems you mention about lack of space is probably the reaseon for the discussion which have been about the number. Maybe they come in different sizes...? There are requirements that the CAs shall be able to make full hot meals for all c-class pax, in addition to the usual hot rolls, pizza for buy on board etc.. I suppose this req is fulfilled... Being two or three ovens...
Lamox From Norway, joined Oct 2008, 41 posts, RR: 0 Reply 54, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 23849 times:
There is a weight saving corresponding to xx minutes extra flying time (dont remember the number...) with fabrics, so there will be standard SAS fabric seats...
OyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 1712 posts, RR: 3 Reply 55, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 23550 times:
Quoting Lamox (Reply 50): All SAS CRJ900 will be the -LR version. According to the project group, the benefit of all CRJ900 being able to fly from CPH to all european SAS destinations far exceeds the extra cost of purchase and higher airport fees.
I believe this is a wise decision. keep the fleet as versatile as possible. Although I hope some options will be for the CRJ1000NG
Quoting Lamox (Reply 54): There is a weight saving corresponding to xx minutes extra flying time (dont remember the number...) with fabrics, so there will be standard SAS fabric seats...
Are these smaller (more narrow) than the seats in the 737NG?
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 1449 posts, RR: 1 Reply 56, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 23491 times:
Quoting OyKIE (Reply 55): Are these smaller (more narrow) than the seats in the 737NG?
Yes, but it's only the three 738 delivered this year (which was bought from Air Europa, straight from the Boeing assembly line) and which are not is SAS configuration that are having leather seats
Lamox From Norway, joined Oct 2008, 41 posts, RR: 0 Reply 58, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 23225 times:
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 57): I just looked up flights from CPH to SVO and apparently one of the flights from next year will be operated by a CRJ900...
A319 and CRJ900 on the route... weird for such a long trip..
Well, this is a thruth with some modifications... If you check more dates, usually one of the flights are operated by an A319, and the other by A321. The CRJ900 will be used for one of the 2 daily flights on days with historically lower booking figures.
How you find it weird that an 88 seat AC and a 149 seat AC operate the same route is far from my imagination! This is the way major airlines are doing it all over the world, from the US to Europe. Look at Lufthansa, Iberie, Delta, Northwest etc timetables. And especially for a company like SAS, with a limited number of people living in Scandinavia, this is the only way to assure a good route structure, with destinations that couldnt otherwise be served.
And block time of 2:30 a long route...? Well, quite far from a long route if you ask me, and if a CRJ900 in SAS should not operate routes of this stage lenght is would be much better to settle with a ATR72 og F50...
OyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 1712 posts, RR: 3 Reply 59, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 22985 times:
Quoting Lamox (Reply 58): How you find it weird that an 88 seat AC and a 149 seat AC operate the same route is far from my imagination!
Is it the same seat pitch on the A319 as on the CRJ? If that is the case I don't mind the plane being smaller. I did not have any trouble flying from CPH to Stutgart in a Q400 even when I had my suitcase under the seat in front of me. And I am 188cm tall.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
Lamox From Norway, joined Oct 2008, 41 posts, RR: 0 Reply 60, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 22803 times:
If the pitch is the same; I am not quite sure, but I think it is the same. SAS policy regarding seat picth is the same on all short haul aircraft, so if pitch is not the same, it will be very shortly. And on the CRJ (and Q400, MD80 and 737) you ARE able to put the suitcase under the seat in front of you if the overhead bin is full, which you can not do on the A319/321. That is the most negative item for me on the Airbus. But otherwise; a beautiful aircraft to travel with....
OyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 1712 posts, RR: 3 Reply 61, posted (1 year 3 months 14 hours ago) and read 22207 times:
I just recieved an e-mail from Lamox. They are in Canada and training on the CRJ-900.
Here are some news from Canada.
The five first CRJ will get the names OY-KFA, OY-KFB, OY-KFC, OY-KFD and then OY-KFE. Not far from my username Although I like Oy-KIE better being the spectacular DC-9-21.
(My personal opinion) The CRJ also looks nice.
Lamox is not sure if they are allowed to take pictures from factory for publishing on the net. But if they are allowed by the factory does anybody know a good and free of charge website that we can upload Lamox pitcures?
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
Doona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3289 posts, RR: 14 Reply 62, posted (1 year 3 months 14 hours ago) and read 22174 times:
Quoting OyKIE (Reply 61): But if they are allowed by the factory does anybody know a good and free of charge website that we can upload Lamox pitcures?
Well, Lamox could get an account on a photo-hosting site like Photobucket, and then post the pics right here in the forums...
Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
OyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 1712 posts, RR: 3 Reply 63, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 21602 times:
I have finally gotten some pictures from Lamox and the plane looks fantastic in SAS! The picture he took was taken inside the factory with permission from guide, but since allot of members got angry about this idea, Lamox choose not to publish them on here.
In my opinion that is very sad. You cannot see any "secret" factory tools in the pictures, although you get to see a brand new Delta CRJ next to the SAS CRJ. Other than that, you can see gray walls. Might a forum moderator have any say regarding this? If the pictures were taken with permission, can they be published on here? There is no secrecy in the pictures. I have seen other factory pictures from BBD showing more of the tooling than Lamox pictures show. I have however permission to send it to those of you eager to see it. In that case, just give me a hint, and an e-mail.
Since I am not able to publish pictures, I will tell you what I see. The name of the CRJ is Johan Viking. Perhaps named after the founder of behind Airliners.net?
Further on Lamox says that the plane will be delivered to SAS right after the weekend. He says the plane Is a dream to fly in simulator. The CRJ-900LR will fly nonstop from Goose Bay (Canada) to CPH. Talk about long-haul in a CRJ
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
Bravo1Six From Canada, joined Dec 2007, 283 posts, RR: 1 Reply 67, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 21267 times:
Quoting OyKIE (Reply 63): I have finally gotten some pictures from Lamox and the plane looks fantastic in SAS! The picture he took was taken inside the factory with permission from guide, but since allot of members got angry about this idea, Lamox choose not to publish them on here.
In my opinion that is very sad. You cannot see any "secret" factory tools in the pictures, although you get to see a brand new Delta CRJ next to the SAS CRJ. Other than that, you can see gray walls. Might a forum moderator have any say regarding this? If the pictures were taken with permission, can they be published on here? There is no secrecy in the pictures. I have seen other factory pictures from BBD showing more of the tooling than Lamox pictures show. I have however permission to send it to those of you eager to see it. In that case, just give me a hint, and an e-mail.
Since I am not able to publish pictures, I will tell you what I see. The name of the CRJ is Johan Viking. Perhaps named after the founder of behind Airliners.net?
Further on Lamox says that the plane will be delivered to SAS right after the weekend. He says the plane Is a dream to fly in simulator. The CRJ-900LR will fly nonstop from Goose Bay (Canada) to CPH. Talk about long-haul in a CRJ
OyKie,
You have to understand that industrial security measures are in place for a reason, even those the reasons may not apply to a specific photo. And even though you don't see anything "secret" in a particular photograph, it's not your call to determine what BBD considers "secret" on its own property and in respect of an aircraft that belongs to it.
We have had occasions in the past where photos have appeared on a.net (either directly in a thread or cross-linked to another site) and elsewhere in instances where those photos were not in any way authorized and did in fact show "secrets", and we asked that those photos be removed after advising the relevant sites of our reasons.
Now, I'm sure that whoever took the photos had permission from their guide. But you yourself said "I am not able to publish pictures", presumably because that was conveyed by the guide to the photographer. So if the photos truly show nothing that is "secret", how come the guide didn't just say "Feel free to blast them all over the Web"?
The answer to that doesn't really matter, because whether it's fair or not, BBD has the right to control who takes a picture on its property of one of its airplanes, and what that person is allowed to do with that photo.
And for the record, I was the one who raised the issue originally as a bit of advice to Lamox and in no way got "angry". I merely suggested that he/she confirm with the appropriate BBD person that taking a photo was ok with BBD.
Lamox From Norway, joined Oct 2008, 41 posts, RR: 0 Reply 68, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 21045 times:
Bravo1Six:
I took my photos as directed by our guide, and the angle is far out from what would be a security threat or anything in that direction for BBD. I have though decided that I will not post any of the pictures I took on the web, maynly due to your very negative comments. One could have a feeling of someone looking over our shoulders from less...
And actuelly: Our training is 14 hr pr day, so I will not have time to find out what is legal or not, I share the approved photos with my friends, and you can then close the ones you descide to be the ones you are controllng....
There will though be some pictures flotating around on the web, some from me and some from others, and actually I think there is not much you can do about that. And NONE should affect BBD security, as their taking were approved by our guides.
And on monday, the president of SAS (or SAS Denmark) will come over here to receive our beautiful new aircraft, and have a 2 hr meeting with us at the training center in Dorval, before we formally will receive our first CRJ900. This is a press tour, with a lot of pictures being taken, so I suppose that this discussion is overdue..
Best wishes - and hoping you find more relevant things to securitate about in the future!
You have to understand that industrial security measures are in place for a reason, even those the reasons may not apply to a specific photo. And even though you don't see anything "secret" in a particular photograph, it's not your call to determine what BBD considers "secret" on its own property and in respect of an aircraft that belongs to it.
We have had occasions in the past where photos have appeared on a.net (either directly in a thread or cross-linked to another site) and elsewhere in instances where those photos were not in any way authorized and did in fact show "secrets", and we asked that those photos be removed after advising the relevant sites of our reasons.
Now, I'm sure that whoever took the photos had permission from their guide. But you yourself said "I am not able to publish pictures", presumably because that was conveyed by the guide to the photographer. So if the photos truly show nothing that is "secret", how come the guide didn't just say "Feel free to blast them all over the Web"?
The answer to that doesn't really matter, because whether it's fair or not, BBD has the right to control who takes a picture on its property of one of its airplanes, and what that person is allowed to do with that photo.
And for the record, I was the one who raised the issue originally as a bit of advice to Lamox and in no way got "angry". I merely suggested that he/she confirm with the appropriate BBD person that taking a photo was ok with BBD.
Do you happen to work for BBD or do you just argument for the sake of arguing? The pictures were taken with permission. If it were a real security threat I doubt they would let cameras inside the building. I have visited factories were no camera was allowed. They were locked up prior to our visit. This was inside the heart of Mercedes-Benz and inside at Airbus factories. But that was just part of our tour. Once we were out the sensitive places, we were allowed cameras and publish them where ever.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
Vfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 2846 posts, RR: 6 Reply 70, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 20871 times:
Quoting OyKIE (Reply 22): 88 seats!? I thought maximum was 86 seats in the CRJ900.
I am surprised about the decision by SAS to cramp as many seats into the CR9 as possible. Didn't some of the Q400s operate with just 64 seats instead of the 78 seats most other carriers squeeze in?
Quoting OyKIE (Reply 42): According to another forum the CRJ-900 is not capable of flying into LCY. Is this true? And if it is true, then why? Is it due to the length of the plane or the inability to follow the flight plan to LCY with steep approach? SAS has some frequencies here, and it would be better to fly in on their own rather than wet leasing equipment right?
Quoting Lamox (Reply 45): I know there is ongoing work to get the CRJ certified, but there is quite a few obstacles ahead, related to the steep approach, rynway and obstacles. Older CRJ did not get certification, but the CRJ-700/900 have wing slats, which can reduce speeds and thereby maybe make it easier to fulfill RW and obstacle reqs.
Steep approach and obstacle clearance aside, a major issue is what useful load the CR9 can lift out LCY with 1.500m of runway. Even the RJ100 is useless at LCY beyond a certain perimeter, hence BA Cityflyer adding some RJ85 to its fleet because too many seats on the RJ100 had to remain empty. And the SAS destinations are not the shortest routes by LCY standards
CRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 1666 posts, RR: 2 Reply 71, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 20832 times:
Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 70): Steep approach and obstacle clearance aside, a major issue is what useful load the CR9 can lift out LCY with 1.500m of runway.
I wonder if SAS has asked BBD about the CRJ700LR. I think that aircraft can operate at LCY with full loads if BBD certifies it there.
Lamox From Norway, joined Oct 2008, 41 posts, RR: 0 Reply 72, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 20737 times:
Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 70): I am surprised about the decision by SAS to cramp as many seats into the CR9 as possible. Didn't some of the Q400s operate with just 64 seats instead of the 78 seats most other carriers squeeze in?
Well, I was onboard an CRJ900 with two more seats; 90, and after our opinion it was plenty of legroom. If you have veeery long legs, I would recomend the 4 seats by the emergency exits. You would not be able to kick the one in front of you even if you tried.
You are correct about the reduced seat number on some Q4, but that was only due to seat restrictions to Poland. The traffic rights stated that SAS could not have more seats available than LOT, and since SAS did not want to reduce the number of flights, they had to reduce the number of seats.
This was though very poor economics, and as soon as these agreements were changed, SAS put 14 more seats on those aiplanes...
Vfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 2846 posts, RR: 6 Reply 73, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 20712 times:
Quoting Lamox (Reply 72):
You are correct about the reduced seat number on some Q4, but that was only due to seat restrictions to Poland. The traffic rights stated that SAS could not have more seats available than LOT, and since SAS did not want to reduce the number of flights, they had to reduce the number of seats.
Interesting. I did not know this.
I seem to remember that the 64 seat Q400s also operated to LCY? Were those used to LCY purely to offer more comfort for the business clientele or because of the load restrictions a 78 seat Q400 would have faced anyway?
Lamox From Norway, joined Oct 2008, 41 posts, RR: 0 Reply 76, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 20706 times:
Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 73): Interesting. I did not know this.
I seem to remember that the 64 seat Q400s also operated to LCY? Were those used to LCY purely to offer more comfort for the business clientele or because of the load restrictions a 78 seat Q400 would have faced anyway?
Actually I do not think it was a lot of difference in comfort levels between the two types - one could hardly notice the difference... There were no special arrangement that the 64 seaters should fly to LCY / EGLC), United Kingdom">LCY, but I suppose that it were used more frequent on this route than on others. But agin: More due to weight than comfort.... Usually no problems westbound, the problem was takeoffs from LCY / EGLC), United Kingdom">LCY...
OyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 1712 posts, RR: 3 Reply 77, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 20625 times:
Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 70): Steep approach and obstacle clearance aside, a major issue is what useful load the CR9 can lift out LCY with 1.500m of runway.
1500m should be enough, no? Or do they have to climb very steep after take off?
Quoting Lamox (Reply 72): Well, I was onboard an CRJ900 with two more seats; 90, and after our opinion it was plenty of legroom. If you have veeery long legs, I would recomend the 4 seats by the emergency exits. You would not be able to kick the one in front of you even if you tried.
What is the seat picth on the 90 seat version, and how ocme SAS only has 88?
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 75): Canadian carrier Porter Airlines has 70 seats on their Q400s with 34 inch seat pitch.
How many seats would fit inside the CRJ900 with 34" pitch?
Quoting Lamox (Reply 76): And by the way: Nice pictures from you KIE....!
No problem Very nice pictures! Now all members are able to enjoy this beautiful bird!
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
Vfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 2846 posts, RR: 6 Reply 78, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 20527 times:
Quoting OyKIE (Reply 77): Or do they have to climb very steep after take off?
TORA and TODA are 1199m and 1319m plus obstacles particularly for westerly take-offs. Not exactly what the CR9 is designed for. Most larger aircraft - that is 50+ for LCY - face load penalties under certain circumstances.
OyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 1712 posts, RR: 3 Reply 79, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 20498 times:
Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 78): TORA and TODA are 1199m and 1319m plus obstacles particularly for westerly take-offs. Not exactly what the CR9 is designed for. Most larger aircraft - that is 50+ for LCY - face load penalties under certain circumstances.
What is TORA and TODA? I guess TO stands for Take Off and R for rotation, but I am do not know what it actually stands for If SAS and Boeing co certified the 736 for LCY, then I guess that plane would not suffer any great penalties?
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
Vfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 2846 posts, RR: 6 Reply 80, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 20418 times:
TORA = takeoff run available (TORA)
TODA = takeoff distance available (TODA)
As said above, it is a rather complex issue. To give you an idea, even the smallish ERJ135 faces difficulties when operating out of LCY, and also the four-engined, STOL-like Avro RJ100. You can of ocurse get them out of the airfield, the jumping point however is always with what load over what distance.
As for the CRJ900, I doubt that it would be very welcome at LCY because of its length of almost 37m. Apron space is a big issue at LCY. Even the Q400, which is 4m shorter than the CR9, can only be accommodated at two or three dedicated stands because otherwise it would block aircraft movements. I am not sure how the situation is on the newly extended eastern apron, but on the old apron there would be no chance to park a CR9 IMHO (leaving all other aspects aside).
Lamox From Norway, joined Oct 2008, 41 posts, RR: 0 Reply 82, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 20352 times:
Quoting OyKIE (Reply 77): What is the seat picth on the 90 seat version, and how ocme SAS only has 88?
I think the pitch was 32" - maybe down to 31" in the far back of the aircraft. The main reasen for the 2 less seats in SAS version is that SAS will have 2 galleys; the main upfront, and a smaller galley aft.
According to BBD they have never delivered any CRJ with as many "strange" galley requirements as SAS have had. Ovens with capacity to serve hot meals to all pax plus crew (CRJ-900: it was 2 not 3 onboard...), Atlas drink trolleys according to some standards ensuring enough drinks for a certain number of minutes flying time etc etc... Some of the aircrafts we were on board did not even have ovens, so the spesifications are quite different between the different airlines...
How many seats a 34" would be a matemathical question. Maybe around 80 seats...?
CRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 1666 posts, RR: 2 Reply 85, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 20289 times:
Quoting Lamox (Reply 82): According to BBD they have never delivered any CRJ with as many "strange" galley requirements as SAS have had. Ovens with capacity to serve hot meals to all pax plus crew (CRJ-900: it was 2 not 3 onboard...),
Interesting. I thought they were quite experienced now after equipping LH's CRJs.
So how did they fix this? Two extended-length ovens in Galley 1 (with loss of counter space) or did they replace a trolley position and put the ovens "down there"?
The wood floor in the lav looks nice, very Scandinavian
I like SAS' eccentric habits, like having their own galley configs and such. Makes snooping around the aircraft more interesting
DurangoMac From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 501 posts, RR: 0 Reply 86, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 20220 times:
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 17): im not sitting a CRJ for almost 3 hours....
I will tell yo that I'll take 3 hours on a CRJ700/900 anyday over a 737/320. Of course being in First/Business doesn't really count and will take it on pretty much any a/c type.
OyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 1712 posts, RR: 3 Reply 87, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 20093 times:
Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 80): TORA = takeoff run available (TORA)
TODA = takeoff distance available (TODA)
Thank you for that information.
Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 80): As said above, it is a rather complex issue. To give you an idea, even the smallish ERJ135 faces difficulties when operating out of LCY, and also the four-engined, STOL-like Avro RJ100. You can of ocurse get them out of the airfield, the jumping point however is always with what load over what distance.
So the A318 is not able to take off with a full passenger load for a two hour trip from LCY?
Quoting Mortyman (Reply 81): Thanx for the pictures OyKIE. Looks very nice and elegant
No problem! And of course a big thanks for Lamox for taking the pictures.
Quoting Lamox (Reply 82): According to BBD they have never delivered any CRJ with as many "strange" galley requirements as SAS have had. Ovens with capacity to serve hot meals to all pax plus crew (CRJ-900: it was 2 not 3 onboard...), Atlas drink trolleys according to some standards ensuring enough drinks for a certain number of minutes flying time etc etc... Some of the aircrafts we were on board did not even have ovens, so the spesifications are quite different between the different airlines...
Isn't this what Boeing said for the 737NG as well?
Quoting DurangoMac (Reply 86): I will tell yo that I'll take 3 hours on a CRJ700/900 anyday over a 737/320. Of course being in First/Business doesn't really count and will take it on pretty much any a/c type.
Sad thing that SAS does not have Business Class on most of the European network. What happened to "The business mans airline"?
On to the thread. Lamox says the SAS will officially get the new CRJ in the beginning of this week. I hope we might get some pictures from the delivery cermony.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
Vfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 2846 posts, RR: 6 Reply 88, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 20029 times:
Quoting OyKIE (Reply 87): So the A318 is not able to take off with a full passenger load for a two hour trip from LCY?
I don't know as I have not seen the data. However, the main reason why Airbus is pushing the LCY certification is because they are targeting the corporate market with the A318 Elite, not because there is a lot of demand for/interest in operating the A318 as an airliner from LCY.
Lamox From Norway, joined Oct 2008, 41 posts, RR: 0 Reply 90, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 18971 times:
The test pilots from SAS are at Mirabel, and have been test flying the aircraft together with Bombardier test pilots the last three days. Everything have been working perfect until now, and if that continues to be the case the formal acceptance will take place within the next few days, and the aircraft is planned to fly to CPH via Goose Bay on tuesday Dec 2nd.
OY-KIE: I do not think there are any plans for a big delivery ceremony here in Montreal. The CEO of SAS DK was here together with danish TV stations, TakeOff magazine, and a lot of journalists on monday. They visited us at the training center, took some films and pictures of us in the sim, and went on to the Bombardier plant. I am locked into a simulator all the time I am not sleeping right now (at least I feel that way...), so I do not think I will be able to attend anything the next few days...
CRJ900: The ovens fitted perfectly into the kitchen as far as I could see. I have sent a picture of it (taken ecpecially for you...) to KIE, so he may be able to forward it to you in a way...
CRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 1666 posts, RR: 2 Reply 91, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 18934 times:
Quoting Lamox (Reply 90): CRJ900: The ovens fitted perfectly into the kitchen as far as I could see. I have sent a picture of it (taken ecpecially for you...) to KIE, so he may be able to forward it to you in a way...
Aww, thank you so much, matey, how very nice of you
KIE can send me an email, he will find the address via my profile page here.
I hope SAS Norge will be enticed to fly the CRJ900 too if the aircraft works out well in Denmark. Would be nice for OSL-MOL and such...?
It must be great to take part in this, visiting BBD, flying these birds and all. I am green with envy
OyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 1712 posts, RR: 3 Reply 92, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 18731 times:
Quoting Lamox (Reply 90):
OY-KIE: I do not think there are any plans for a big delivery ceremony here in Montreal. The CEO of SAS DK was here together with danish TV stations, TakeOff magazine, and a lot of journalists on monday. They visited us at the training center, took some films and pictures of us in the sim, and went on to the Bombardier plant. I am locked into a simulator all the time I am not sleeping right now (at least I feel that way...), so I do not think I will be able to attend anything the next few days...
That is a shame! It is not everyday SAS gets a new airplane.
Quoting Lamox (Reply 90): CRJ900: The ovens fitted perfectly into the kitchen as far as I could see. I have sent a picture of it (taken ecpecially for you...) to KIE, so he may be able to forward it to you in a way...
Here it is:
Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 91): KIE can send me an email, he will find the address via my profile page here.
I will send them to you imidietly
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 1449 posts, RR: 1 Reply 93, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 18703 times:
Quoting OyKIE (Reply 92): That is a shame! It is not everyday SAS gets a new airplane.
Hold the party in CPH instead.....the beer is better there
Quoting Lamox (Reply 90): CRJ900: The ovens fitted perfectly into the kitchen as far as I could see. I have sent a picture of it (taken ecpecially for you...) to KIE, so he may be able to forward it to you in a way...
After this, no airline have any excuse not being able to provide a meal in a CRJ, blaming it on lack of ovens
Lamox From Norway, joined Oct 2008, 41 posts, RR: 0 Reply 94, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 18665 times:
Well, in our artificial world, the result of our CEO, a brand new airplane and a lot of journalists will probably result in a cerenomy look-alike report on TV, newspapers and on the web. The ceremony is the same, but according to the new regulations there will be almost no human beings attending.....
We struggled for 2 weeks just to get close to the aircraft, and all of our photographing and movements were closely followed, even though some of us are going to fly it back to CPH next tuesday. That is the new non-romantic world...
Anyway: OY-KFA will be re-positioned to Goose Bay, just up the coast from Montreal, and then fly non-stop from Goose Bay to CPH, with planned arrival CPH on Dec 2nd at 2245 local time. So you spotters with night cameras are hereby informed... Hoping for north easterly winds...
I will fly oy-kfa for my training flights out of CPH within two weeks, so I can take some more pictures and send to my publishing friend then... Hopefully he can then forward them to all of you on this site....
OyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 1712 posts, RR: 3 Reply 95, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 18476 times:
Quoting Lamox (Reply 33): Just for info; I saw the first SAS CR9 flightplan last week: CPH-BGO, with fuel used 1,8 tons, and flying time 1:02. The identical plan for the MD87 was 3,7 tons of fuel, and flying time 1:06. Quite a big saving, although the CR9 takes 37 pax less than the MD. Those last 37 pax are very rarely onboard on the route anyway.
Just for comparison. Does anybody know how much a 736 would use on the same trip?
Quoting Someone83 (Reply 93): Hold the party in CPH instead.....the beer is better there
Indeed
Quoting Lamox (Reply 94): I will fly oy-kfa for my training flights out of CPH within two weeks, so I can take some more pictures and send to my publishing friend then... Hopefully he can then forward them to all of you on this site....
Indieed, you publishing friend willl be ready.
Lamox, Thank you so much for taking the time to give us the possibility to follow this event so closely! I know you are very busy learning too fly the new bird. But your inside information and pictures has made this event unforgetable
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
Delivery flight YMX-YYR-CPH I understand.
Believed to be OY-KFA with an ETA at CPH of midnight (Tue 2 Dec).
Not much prospect of an arrival ceremony at that time of night!
OyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 1712 posts, RR: 3 Reply 97, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 17900 times:
Lamox has sent me some more pictures for us all too ensjoy. The first three is prior to leaving Canada, and the fourth picture is inside a hangar in CPH. You can see a MD-80 behind the CRJ.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 1449 posts, RR: 1 Reply 99, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 17663 times:
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 98): Hmmm why is the SAS logo on the tail different sizes on each side??
All (or most) SAS aircraft has this feature. And it's because the font they use and the shape of the tail enables them to use a bigger logo on one of the sides
OyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 1712 posts, RR: 3 Reply 101, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 17265 times:
Quoting Someone83 (Reply 100): Here is it on its first training flight at CPH
Thank you for the pictures. The CRJ-900 really looks nice in the SAS colors. Are we allowed to show the pictures in this thread linking to this picture?
Lamox From Norway, joined Oct 2008, 41 posts, RR: 0 Reply 102, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 17178 times:
Someone83: When I try to open the link, it just says "There is no image with this ID number."...
The KIE connection thoug showed a beautiflul AC parked at the remote stands in CPH. Looking forward to meeting the lady next week...! Skill test passed last night, so now it is back to Norway for a few days off, and flying it on wednesday...!
OyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 1712 posts, RR: 3 Reply 103, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 17130 times:
Quoting Lamox (Reply 102): The KIE connection though showed a beautiful AC parked at the remote stands in CPH. Looking forward to meeting the lady next week...! Skill test passed last night, so now it is back to Norway for a few days off, and flying it on Wednesday...!
I hope you are able to get some pictures
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
Lamox From Norway, joined Oct 2008, 41 posts, RR: 0 Reply 105, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 16298 times:
She flies like a dream, and after appr 150 legs of training flights in SAS there have been absolutely no technical problems with the aircraft! Both pilots, cabin and technicians are extremely satisfied about the performance! First revenue flight for SAS will be tomorrow as SK1207 CPH-AAL, at 0915 am, with some festivitas in CPH ahead of the departure.
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