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Report: CSA To Start PRG-MIA In March '09  
User currently offlineFalcon flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1323 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5707 times:

Aviation Letter is mentioning it in its latest issue. Seems like the rumor has been talked about on and off for ages but nothing on the CSA website. Anyone with further info ?


My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32702 posts, RR: 72
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5691 times:

They have been in talks with MIA in the past few weeks, and talks got very serious. They also considered MCO.

Though I have not heard anything official yet.

The plan is only 1x weekly, if it launches.

It's a psuedo-charter flight, because most of the seats will be pre-sold to holiday companies, with CSA selling the excess capacity to the public. Sort of like AirTran's service to Biloxi from Fort Lauderdale and Tampa.

[Edited 2008-10-16 18:55:53]


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User currently offlineFalcon flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1323 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5662 times:

Doesn't appear to be bookable yet. At once weekly, would it be eligible to become a Skyteam route or DL codeshare ?


My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
User currently offlineKrisYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5630 times:

I was under the impression that OK is in the early stages of dismantling its long-haul ops. OK recently made its PRG-YYZ route seasonal and has leased out at least one of its A310s. A friend of mine was suppose to fly OK back to YYZ from PRG but OK had no A310 available to operate the flight as 2 were parked due to technical problems.

I hope OK will indeed start PRG-MIA, but I would think they would have to look at renewing their long-haul fleet first. OK is one of the last major airlines to operate the A310, I think some A332s would be the best solution for them.

KrisYYZ


User currently offlineCZECH380 From Czech Republic, joined Sep 2008, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5622 times:

I don't think this is a smart idea. 1/ Frequency is not going to be enough for a lot of people to give them variety and potential connections. 2/ MIA is not a Skyteam hub. 3/ Although MIA and South Florida became popular with Czech's top class (ex-prime minister bough apartments there, so did a lot of other pop culture figures and others,...), they usually choose to fly Western European airlines with better J product. Overall - I don't see this route working at all. I think they should look into flying to ORD, LAX or other destinations that are constantly showing on PRG's airports top list of connecting destinations. CSA needs to privatize immediately and invest in long-haul, they proved that they can be one of the best on short-haul...I am sure they can be one of the best in long-haul.

User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32702 posts, RR: 72
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5563 times:



Quoting CZECH380 (Reply 4):
I don't think this is a smart idea. 1/ Frequency is not going to be enough for a lot of people to give them variety and potential connections. 2/ MIA is not a Skyteam hub. 3/ Although MIA and South Florida became popular with Czech's top class (ex-prime minister bough apartments there, so did a lot of other pop culture figures and others,...), they usually choose to fly Western European airlines with better J product. Overall - I don't see this route working at all.

It's a charter flight with excess capacity sold publicly. The flight is virtually guaranteed to make money. How much? Who knows. If somebody loses money on this, it will be the holiday companies; not CSA.



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User currently offlineCZECH380 From Czech Republic, joined Sep 2008, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5393 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):

From what I have heard - not true. The charter companies will only get around 30 - 40% of the capacity.....and I just don't see how they come up with the demand on this route. It's all subjective, but let's hope they do fill it up.


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32702 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5359 times:



Quoting CZECH380 (Reply 6):
The charter companies will only get around 30 - 40% of the capacity.....and I just don't see how they come up with the demand on this route. It's all subjective, but let's hope they do fill it up.

The market is there to fill the plane. CSA will have zero problems filling this.

Yield is the question mark here, not demand. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.



a.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25125 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5078 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
Quoting CZECH380 (Reply 6):
The charter companies will only get around 30 - 40% of the capacity.....and I just don't see how they come up with the demand on this route. It's all subjective, but let's hope they do fill it up.

The market is there to fill the plane. CSA will have zero problems filling this.

Yield is the question mark here, not demand. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

OK has operated similar flights in the past and still do. I was waiting for a flight at PRG a few months ago and the flight departing from the next gate was an OK A310 to Porlamar, Venezuela (Margarita Island).


User currently offlineTheBigZ From Sweden, joined Jul 2006, 17 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5055 times:

Probably a really dumb question but an A310 PRG-MIA?!?! Or PRG-Porlamar? Tell me that we are not talking nonstop? Can an A310 really operate these routes nonstop? Surely not without heavy load restrictions? What about ETOPS?

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25125 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4996 times:



Quoting TheBigZ (Reply 9):
Probably a really dumb question but an A310 PRG-MIA?!?! Or PRG-Porlamar? Tell me that we are not talking nonstop? Can an A310 really operate these routes nonstop? Surely not without heavy load restrictions? What about ETOPS?

PRG-MIA 4407 nm
PRG-PMV (Porlamar) 4453 nm

Possibly a fuel stop or weight restriction. Airbus quotes A310-300 range as 4350 nm but you normally have to reduce those numbers by 10-15% in real-world conditions as manufacturer figures don't consider winds (or cargo, not that there would likely be much, if any, cargo on routes like those).

Canadian carrier Wardair used their A310-300s nonstop YVR-LGW with no problems (4126 nm).


User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26912 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4979 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
The market is there to fill the plane. CSA will have zero problems filling this.

Totally agree and if they can get some good connections from other parts of Europe to connect in PRG that will also fill any empty seats Ex:PRG.


User currently offlineCZECH380 From Czech Republic, joined Sep 2008, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 4869 times:



Quoting Oa260 (Reply 11):



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):

Can you provide some hard facts on which bases you "believe" this route will work? It created quite a controversy in Czech, as there don't seem to be numbers supporting this route and furthermore the one-a-week frequency is absolutely minimal for any regular/business passengers to travel on. One other major issue is that it is not SkyTeam hub, therefore the connections are going to be limited. It also eats into the DL pie of PRG-ATL, which they are not happy about. If you take out your subjective feelings - can you provide any hard facts that would support your opinions? Maybe I am missing something.....


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32702 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4846 times:



Quoting CZECH380 (Reply 12):
If you take out your subjective feelings - can you provide any hard facts that would support your opinions? Maybe I am missing something.....

If CSA Czech can't fill one weekly A310 between Prague and Miami on O&D - the second busiest destination for Europeans in the United States (11% of all Europeans that came to the U.S. in 2007 came to Miami; second to New York), then CSA Czech has major problems. It is ridiculously easy to fill a plane between Miami and Europe. The yield might not be there - that's to be discovered - but filling the plane is not the issue.

And there are limited SkyTeam connections in MIA, including intra-Florida on Continental Connection and to Mexico on AeroMexico. Not that it matters - an A310 between Miami and Pargue does not need connections on the Miami side. The connections on the Prague side combined with local traffic will suffice.

The question mark is yield - there is no business or premium traffic to speak of. There is no doubt CSA will achieve 80%+ loadfactors.

As for "hard facts" regarding the actual local market between Miami and Prague - I don't have those numbers, but others here do and might be willing to provide them. And I am willing to bet that MIA and FLL are among the two biggest feeders onto the ATL-PRG flight. MIA and FLL (along with LAX) typically are for many of Delta's ATL-Europe flights.



a.
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17063 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4829 times:

Looking forward to see how this flight will work out for CSA with only one fligh a week. I thought they would at least have a thrice weekly service.


Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26912 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4782 times:



Quoting CZECH380 (Reply 12):
Can you provide some hard facts on which bases you "believe" this route will work? It created quite a controversy in Czech,

With the entry of the Czech republic to the USA VWP it will make tourism easier rather than having to get visas. Also Royal Caribbean Cruise lines have reported a large increase in Czech bookings and have appointed Icon Cruises,Icon Plavby S.R.O,Rumunska 1,CZ - 12000 Praha 2,Prague as their preffered agent. All flights will be PRG-MIA to connect with the ''weekly'' departures of the ships. Visitor numbers to the USA including Florida are expected to rise sharply also. I guess the figures will speak for themselves once the service starts. Florida tourism will also do a targeted marketing campaign soon also.


User currently offlineCZECH380 From Czech Republic, joined Sep 2008, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4481 times:



Quoting Oa260 (Reply 15):

You are correct with the Visa Waiver Program and the cruise liners, however if I understood it correctly it was counted in that blocked off 30-40% for the charter space I read about. Either way - let's hope they succeed, strong national carrier with good long-haul network is very much needed for the Czechs. I heard something like 55% of the population took international holiday last year and the numbers are growing. It is my dream to be able to do LAX-PRG direct as opposed to having to transfer constantly. Thanks to MAH4546 for more insight... however I would still disagree with some of those points from what I saw on the Ceska Sprava Letist 's report sheets. It just does not seem like a viable new route, but let's hope otherwise.


User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4232 times:

How on earth did CSA manage to free up a A310 from scheduled service to do Porlamar? There must have been a route dropped or cancelled.

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4188 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
Yield is the question mark here, not demand

...that doesn't really make sense though: yield is a function of demand.


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32702 posts, RR: 72
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4113 times:



Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 18):

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
Yield is the question mark here, not demand

...that doesn't really make sense though: yield is a function of demand.

Yield is a "function" of demand when one assumes a perfect market curve. A market can have plenty of demand (i.e. New Orleans-Honduras; Miami-Russia). Yield can still stuck even in high demand markets.



a.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4088 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):

Yield is a "function" of demand when one assumes a perfect market curve. A market can have plenty of demand (i.e. New Orleans-Honduras; Miami-Russia). Yield can still stuck even in high demand markets.

Perhaps we're seeing it differently: I'm thinking in terms of demand for an actual nonstop, of any calibre; versus demand defined as just traffic flows that have no other realistic option other than a cnnx.

What I'm saying is, how can much of the latter realistically be labeled as, or considered, "demand" if it didn't justify suitable yields such that any such flight would have a chance?

I mean, I could understand such demand that's just a few deviations off the expected price curve necessary for a flight to break even... but still.


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32702 posts, RR: 72
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3731 times:

Anybody have updates on the status of this flight?


a.
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