Report: CSA To Start PRG-MIA In March '09 — Civil Aviation Forum

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Report: CSA To Start PRG-MIA In March '09

Falcon flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1292 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 7 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4541 times:

Aviation Letter is mentioning it in its latest issue. Seems like the rumor has been talked about on and off for ages but nothing on the CSA website. Anyone with further info ?

My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.

21 replies: All unread, jump to last

MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31107 posts, RR: 74
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4525 times:

They have been in talks with MIA in the past few weeks, and talks got very serious. They also considered MCO.

Though I have not heard anything official yet.

The plan is only 1x weekly, if it launches.

It's a psuedo-charter flight, because most of the seats will be pre-sold to holiday companies, with CSA selling the excess capacity to the public. Sort of like AirTran's service to Biloxi from Fort Lauderdale and Tampa.

[Edited 2008-10-16 18:55:53]

Falcon flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4496 times:

Doesn't appear to be bookable yet. At once weekly, would it be eligible to become a Skyteam route or DL codeshare ?

My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.

KrisYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1575 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4464 times:

I was under the impression that OK is in the early stages of dismantling its long-haul ops. OK recently made its PRG-YYZ route seasonal and has leased out at least one of its A310s. A friend of mine was suppose to fly OK back to YYZ from PRG but OK had no A310 available to operate the flight as 2 were parked due to technical problems.

I hope OK will indeed start PRG-MIA, but I would think they would have to look at renewing their long-haul fleet first. OK is one of the last major airlines to operate the A310, I think some A332s would be the best solution for them.

KrisYYZ

Malev forever!

CZECH380 From Czech Republic, joined Sep 2008, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4456 times:

I don't think this is a smart idea. 1/ Frequency is not going to be enough for a lot of people to give them variety and potential connections. 2/ MIA is not a Skyteam hub. 3/ Although MIA and South Florida became popular with Czech's top class (ex-prime minister bough apartments there, so did a lot of other pop culture figures and others,...), they usually choose to fly Western European airlines with better J product. Overall - I don't see this route working at all. I think they should look into flying to ORD, LAX or other destinations that are constantly showing on PRG's airports top list of connecting destinations. CSA needs to privatize immediately and invest in long-haul, they proved that they can be one of the best on short-haul...I am sure they can be one of the best in long-haul.

MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31107 posts, RR: 74
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4397 times:

Quoting CZECH380 (Reply 4):
I don't think this is a smart idea. 1/ Frequency is not going to be enough for a lot of people to give them variety and potential connections. 2/ MIA is not a Skyteam hub. 3/ Although MIA and South Florida became popular with Czech's top class (ex-prime minister bough apartments there, so did a lot of other pop culture figures and others,...), they usually choose to fly Western European airlines with better J product. Overall - I don't see this route working at all.

It's a charter flight with excess capacity sold publicly. The flight is virtually guaranteed to make money. How much? Who knows. If somebody loses money on this, it will be the holiday companies; not CSA.

CZECH380 From Czech Republic, joined Sep 2008, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4227 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):

From what I have heard - not true. The charter companies will only get around 30 - 40% of the capacity.....and I just don't see how they come up with the demand on this route. It's all subjective, but let's hope they do fill it up.

MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31107 posts, RR: 74
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4193 times:

Quoting CZECH380 (Reply 6):
The charter companies will only get around 30 - 40% of the capacity.....and I just don't see how they come up with the demand on this route. It's all subjective, but let's hope they do fill it up.

The market is there to fill the plane. CSA will have zero problems filling this.

Yield is the question mark here, not demand. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21460 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 5 days ago) and read 3912 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
Quoting CZECH380 (Reply 6):
The charter companies will only get around 30 - 40% of the capacity.....and I just don't see how they come up with the demand on this route. It's all subjective, but let's hope they do fill it up.

The market is there to fill the plane. CSA will have zero problems filling this.

Yield is the question mark here, not demand. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

OK has operated similar flights in the past and still do. I was waiting for a flight at PRG a few months ago and the flight departing from the next gate was an OK A310 to Porlamar, Venezuela (Margarita Island).

TheBigZ From Sweden, joined Jul 2006, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 5 days ago) and read 3889 times:

Probably a really dumb question but an A310 PRG-MIA?!?! Or PRG-Porlamar? Tell me that we are not talking nonstop? Can an A310 really operate these routes nonstop? Surely not without heavy load restrictions? What about ETOPS?

Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21460 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3830 times:

Quoting TheBigZ (Reply 9):
Probably a really dumb question but an A310 PRG-MIA?!?! Or PRG-Porlamar? Tell me that we are not talking nonstop? Can an A310 really operate these routes nonstop? Surely not without heavy load restrictions? What about ETOPS?

PRG-MIA 4407 nm
PRG-PMV (Porlamar) 4453 nm

Possibly a fuel stop or weight restriction. Airbus quotes A310-300 range as 4350 nm but you normally have to reduce those numbers by 10-15% in real-world conditions as manufacturer figures don't consider winds (or cargo, not that there would likely be much, if any, cargo on routes like those).

Canadian carrier Wardair used their A310-300s nonstop YVR-LGW with no problems (4126 nm).

Oa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 24881 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3813 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
The market is there to fill the plane. CSA will have zero problems filling this.

Totally agree and if they can get some good connections from other parts of Europe to connect in PRG that will also fill any empty seats Ex:PRG.

OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ "Η ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΨΗΛΑ" "GREECE FLYING HIGH"

CZECH380 From Czech Republic, joined Sep 2008, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3703 times:

Quoting Oa260 (Reply 11):

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):

Can you provide some hard facts on which bases you "believe" this route will work? It created quite a controversy in Czech, as there don't seem to be numbers supporting this route and furthermore the one-a-week frequency is absolutely minimal for any regular/business passengers to travel on. One other major issue is that it is not SkyTeam hub, therefore the connections are going to be limited. It also eats into the DL pie of PRG-ATL, which they are not happy about. If you take out your subjective feelings - can you provide any hard facts that would support your opinions? Maybe I am missing something.....

MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31107 posts, RR: 74
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3680 times:

Quoting CZECH380 (Reply 12):
If you take out your subjective feelings - can you provide any hard facts that would support your opinions? Maybe I am missing something.....

If CSA Czech can't fill one weekly A310 between Prague and Miami on O&D - the second busiest destination for Europeans in the United States (11% of all Europeans that came to the U.S. in 2007 came to Miami; second to New York), then CSA Czech has major problems. It is ridiculously easy to fill a plane between Miami and Europe. The yield might not be there - that's to be discovered - but filling the plane is not the issue.

And there are limited SkyTeam connections in MIA, including intra-Florida on Continental Connection and to Mexico on AeroMexico. Not that it matters - an A310 between Miami and Pargue does not need connections on the Miami side. The connections on the Prague side combined with local traffic will suffice.

The question mark is yield - there is no business or premium traffic to speak of. There is no doubt CSA will achieve 80%+ loadfactors.

As for "hard facts" regarding the actual local market between Miami and Prague - I don't have those numbers, but others here do and might be willing to provide them. And I am willing to bet that MIA and FLL are among the two biggest feeders onto the ATL-PRG flight. MIA and FLL (along with LAX) typically are for many of Delta's ATL-Europe flights.

B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16574 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3663 times:

Looking forward to see how this flight will work out for CSA with only one fligh a week. I thought they would at least have a thrice weekly service.

Work Hard, Fly Right

Oa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 24881 posts, RR: 60
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3616 times:

Quoting CZECH380 (Reply 12):
Can you provide some hard facts on which bases you "believe" this route will work? It created quite a controversy in Czech,

With the entry of the Czech republic to the USA VWP it will make tourism easier rather than having to get visas. Also Royal Caribbean Cruise lines have reported a large increase in Czech bookings and have appointed Icon Cruises,Icon Plavby S.R.O,Rumunska 1,CZ - 12000 Praha 2,Prague as their preffered agent. All flights will be PRG-MIA to connect with the ''weekly'' departures of the ships. Visitor numbers to the USA including Florida are expected to rise sharply also. I guess the figures will speak for themselves once the service starts. Florida tourism will also do a targeted marketing campaign soon also.

OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ "Η ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΨΗΛΑ" "GREECE FLYING HIGH"

CZECH380 From Czech Republic, joined Sep 2008, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3315 times:

Quoting Oa260 (Reply 15):

You are correct with the Visa Waiver Program and the cruise liners, however if I understood it correctly it was counted in that blocked off 30-40% for the charter space I read about. Either way - let's hope they succeed, strong national carrier with good long-haul network is very much needed for the Czechs. I heard something like 55% of the population took international holiday last year and the numbers are growing. It is my dream to be able to do LAX-PRG direct as opposed to having to transfer constantly. Thanks to MAH4546 for more insight... however I would still disagree with some of those points from what I saw on the Ceska Sprava Letist 's report sheets. It just does not seem like a viable new route, but let's hope otherwise.

Babybus From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3512 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3066 times:

How on earth did CSA manage to free up a A310 from scheduled service to do Porlamar? There must have been a route dropped or cancelled.

and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.

ConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3022 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
Yield is the question mark here, not demand

...that doesn't really make sense though: yield is a function of demand.

MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31107 posts, RR: 74
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2947 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 18):

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
Yield is the question mark here, not demand

...that doesn't really make sense though: yield is a function of demand.

Yield is a "function" of demand when one assumes a perfect market curve. A market can have plenty of demand (i.e. New Orleans-Honduras; Miami-Russia). Yield can still stuck even in high demand markets.

ConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2922 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):

Yield is a "function" of demand when one assumes a perfect market curve. A market can have plenty of demand (i.e. New Orleans-Honduras; Miami-Russia). Yield can still stuck even in high demand markets.

Perhaps we're seeing it differently: I'm thinking in terms of demand for an actual nonstop, of any calibre; versus demand defined as just traffic flows that have no other realistic option other than a cnnx.

What I'm saying is, how can much of the latter realistically be labeled as, or considered, "demand" if it didn't justify suitable yields such that any such flight would have a chance?

I mean, I could understand such demand that's just a few deviations off the expected price curve necessary for a flight to break even... but still.

MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31107 posts, RR: 74
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2565 times:

Anybody have updates on the status of this flight?

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