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MD-11, What Did Happen?  
User currently offlineSterne82 From Belgium, joined May 2000, 397 posts, RR: 0
Posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1529 times:

Hi verybody,

I've just found on a "old" website, that when the MD-11 was launched, he have attracted some orders from JAT and AOM(French Airlines), is it true?

If yes, what did happen to this orders?

Also, I've found an old picture of a MD-11 flying for AA but which have been leased by "US AFRICA".Which Company was that, and do you have any info about it?

Thanks a lot

Cheers

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKLMBlue From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 267 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1450 times:

What website was it? It seems like an interesting site.

KLM


User currently offlineIFlyADesk From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 309 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1409 times:

JAT and AOM were in fact early MD-11 customers. However JAT was in turmoil, didn't have any money, and the Slavs were too busy shooting eachother to worry about airlines and aircraft purchases/leases. AOM was a shaky deal from the start, as they were in the process of absorbing Minerve, and also probably ran out of money.

USAfrica did lease two AA M11s in the 90s fying IAD-SID-JNB (and later CPT). I don't think they even lasted a year, as their load factors were horrible and they couldn't make the lease payments.


User currently offlineNotarzt From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 642 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1389 times:

McDonnell Douglas also lost orders from Aero Lloyd and Singapore Airlines (the latter being the most prestigeous MD-11 order and a big loss for the whole program, of course). A340 and B777 killed the MD-11.

Daniel


User currently offlineFDXmech From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3251 posts, RR: 34
Reply 4, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1379 times:

IMO what killed the MD11 was the very weak financial position MDD was in. Thus unable to build the best plane it could (for instance new wing design) and losing the confidence of its customer base.

If MDD's commercial division was financially strong and vibrant, it might have been a different story.



You're only as good as your last departure.
User currently offlineIFlyADesk From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 309 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1367 times:

Yes, the SQ deal was a ball-buster, especially when it happend so early in the program. However, SQ wormed-out of the deal rather easily as they had not put any money down on the order, so they walked-away with no money out of their pocket.

Strange enough that their A340 order coincided with the opening of extra landing slots at CDG. Go figure...


User currently offlineGanymed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1367 times:

Air Europe also placed an order for the new MDD-trijet but it was cancelled after AE's demise .
They eventually would have become the first RR-powered MD-11's had AE taken delivery of them.


User currently offlineConair From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 196 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1355 times:

As I remember it the SQ deal collapsed because the MD11's did not match up to the performance that MDC said they would, mostly fuel burn. American Airlines were also very unhappy with the performance of the aircraft and when they got their first deliveries refused to accept delivery of any more aircraft until the problems were sorted out.

User currently offlineIFlyADesk From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 309 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1349 times:

AA did in fact have a lot to do with the MD-11's early demise, in the beginning. Early on the MD-11 did have performance shortfalls, which could be blamed on both the airframe and the GE engines.

AA badmouthed the aircraft big time and their complaints created a lot of bad press. However, AA also did not implement the performance improvement packages offered, including drag improvements and higher takeoff weights. AA's ex-MD-11s are some of the most backward MD-11s that were ever built.

AA started it, and the Boeing "merger" ended it...


User currently offlineQantasAirways From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1277 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1328 times:

Hi,
I love the MD11 regardless of how successful it was...
I love the look of it, especially in EVA AIr's colours
QantasAirways



Spirit of Australia
User currently offlineFlashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2900 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1313 times:
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DL also had some complaints with the avionics and some of the new flight controls, up to the point where they demanded that a MD (or was it Honeywell or Rockwell or some other avionics producer) engineer ride on every flight.

User currently offlineTrintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3238 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1292 times:

MD11's story is a long sad one, posted several times before. In a nutshell it amounted to struggling MD issuing a derivative design quickly in order to snare orders from its loyal customer base (who had bought DC10s before) in anticipation of the A340 and of a Boeing competitor, which became the 777. Alas, the initial disappointments of AA proved a major blow and, even though MD improved the design and offered upgraded versions, the all new A340 and 777 quickly captured the market and killed the MD11. The final rites were performed by Boeing when initial optimism of freighter sales faded, largely because new freighter sales are generally small and, in any case, MD11s were being rapidly sold off for freighter use, especially to FedEx.

Trintocan.



Hop to it, fly for life!
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8003 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1252 times:

I think what really killed off the MD-11 was simple: ETOPS 180-minute certification.

When the 767 and 777 achieved ETOPS 180 certification, there was no longer a need to fly the MD-11, given that the 767 and 777 had lower seat-mile costs than the MD-11.

Besides the success of ETOPS-certified 767/777's, the Airbus A340 series also contributed much to the demise of the MD-11. The reason is simple: the A340 maintained much commonality with the A300/A310 series, so it sold well, particularly in Europe.


User currently offlineFDXmech From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3251 posts, RR: 34
Reply 13, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1229 times:

I fail to see how AA contributed to the MD11's demise. Being that they bought and took delivery of the aircraft and it didn't perform as promised, they had every right to put the screws to MDD. Airlines depend on an aircraft to perform as advertised. In order to run a successful business, you've got to be tough, thats why I'm not a businessman.




You're only as good as your last departure.
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