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ANC Crew Layover Or Not For Cargo Carrier?  
User currently offlineAznCSA4QF744ER From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 692 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4763 times:

Is ANC a hub for FX and other Intl carriers that use that airport as a connection point between Asia and the US, and beyond? I have never been to ANC but always amazed about how many cargo carriers fly into ANC. Do airlines put crew on layover in ANC or just have them fuel up and continues to wherever they are heading?

[Edited 2008-10-18 22:42:00]

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1653 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4751 times:

ANC is a pilot crew base for NWA and FX ..I also believe that UPS also has a pilot base there. The NWA pilot base is for the freighter guys although I don't know if the freighter operation for them will go on much longer.


NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25381 posts, RR: 49
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4740 times:

Cargo carriers definately do rest crews in ANC. Many of the downtown hotels such as the Marriott, Captain Cook and Sheraton are stuffed with pilots.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5822 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4641 times:

Hi, I live in Anchorage, and up until recently, I worked for a ground handling company that had (at one time) most of the contracts with the freight airlines.

Yes, crews overnight here. From Tokyo to here is about 6 hours- can be less, can be more. We're about halfway from anywhere to anywhere, so we're in an ideal spot to stop.
Also, fuel has, for many many years, been VERY CHEAP here. That's not as true as it used to be, but is still a factor.

Quoting AznCSA4QF744ER (Thread starter):
but always amazed about how many cargo carriers fly into ANC

Yep, no other airport in North America has as many 747 flights per week than we do!! Bragging rights!!

Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 1):
I also believe that UPS also has a pilot base there.

Indeed they do. Have a friend who's based here... yet for some odd reason, he commutes from Florida. What's the deal???

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Many of the downtown hotels such as the Marriott, Captain Cook and Sheraton are stuffed with pilots

The airline I got assigned to here put up their crews in the Captain Cook- even the flight attendants when they had a passenger charter come in. Lucky!


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8153 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4579 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):
Indeed they do. Have a friend who's based here... yet for some odd reason, he commutes from Florida. What's the deal???

He doesn't like mountains or evergreens. Just a couple of wild stabs in the dark  Wink



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5822 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days ago) and read 4531 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 4):
He doesn't like mountains or evergreens. Just a couple of wild stabs in the dark

Haha, keep stabbing. I think it's more along the lines of not liking a 45-minute commute on a winter morning... just to go 7 miles. And it's NOT because of traffic.
Of course, if you end up in the ditch (which happens here a lot more often than I expected), you've now got a 4 HOUR commute. In the -20F / -29C cold. With the wind blowing at 45 mph.
Yep, that's Anchorage. Suuuure am glad I moved here!


User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4440 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5):
In the -20F / -29C cold. With the wind blowing at 45 mph.
Yep, that's Anchorage. Suuuure am glad I moved here!

Come on...dont make things appear worst than they are. The high in Anchorage in January is usually in the 20s and low is around 10. It rarely gets to -20.


User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4362 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 4):
He doesn't like mountains or evergreens

Or Palins .....

Sorry i couldn't resist that one!!  Wow!  devil 


User currently offlineGRRTVC From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 275 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4235 times:

I've always liked to refer to ANC as the 7-Eleven or truck stop of aviation cargo. Stop, get fuel, bathroom break, get a doughnut or two, and keep on trucking...or flying.

UPS announced about a year or so ago they were opening a pilot base here. They have installed two simulators; B744 and MD-11. If I recall I think it was planned to have 150+ pilots. I could see about 25% relocating to ANC.

Cargo traffic is down about 15% to 20% the last couple of months generally due to fuel costs. But ANC still has a great deal of daily freighters. Usually about September through November traffic picks up a bit and once and awhile you see a rare bird filling in for demand as the holiday season approaches.

Unfortunately, and I would hate for this to happen, but I think cargo in ANC will slowly go the way international passenger traffic did back in the 90's. May be not on the same scale but with newer and longer range a/c I could see ANC being overflown. Certainly FedEx and UPS wouldn't pack up and leave but I could certainly see some of the other cargo carriers overflying ANC. There will always be a need for ANC but I'm just guessing cargo traffic will start to slowly decrease in the coming years.

GRRTVC


User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4205 times:



Quoting GRRTVC (Reply 8):
There will always be a need for ANC but I'm just guessing cargo traffic will start to slowly decrease in the coming years.

I don't think so. If you look at the westbound freight, ANC provides a great place to stop and have the ability to lift a full load all the way to HKG. However, due to the cyclical nature of the freight market, freight from the US to Asia is pretty much unidirectional, that is, from West to East.

If you look at the freight market, unless you want to stop in Russia, ANC is really hte only place to run from HKG, NRT, ICN to the US. If you try to go non-stop, then the payload takes a hit. In reality, the cargo doesn't care if it has to stop enroute. FAI could be an alternative, but FAI has not tried to compete with ANC in any meaningful way.

The introduction of the 748F will still keep ANC as a tech stop for the freight world.


User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3352 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4193 times:



Quoting GRRTVC (Reply 8):
Unfortunately, and I would hate for this to happen, but I think cargo in ANC will slowly go the way international passenger traffic did back in the 90's. May be not on the same scale but with newer and longer range a/c I could see ANC being overflown. Certainly FedEx and UPS wouldn't pack up and leave but I could certainly see some of the other cargo carriers overflying ANC. There will always be a need for ANC but I'm just guessing cargo traffic will start to slowly decrease in the coming years.

well ANC also allows them to carry heavy loads. the newer longer range aircraft still dont master higher payload weight. usually a lot less.

We still need to carry heavy freight loads and ANC makes it much easier to allow a 747 to carry a full load to Asia pretty much.



There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlineChugach From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1041 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4128 times:



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 9):
FAI could be an alternative, but FAI has not tried to compete with ANC in any meaningful way.

ANC and FAI share revenues, so there's no real need to "compete" with each other. ANC gets most of the traffic due to being a bigger city/airport with better facilities. FAI has evolved into a reliever airport of sorts for ANC cargo traffic. When high winds shut down ANC (which happened a couple weeks ago), FAI is the main diversion point.

Quoting OOer (Reply 6):
Come on...dont make things appear worst than they are. The high in Anchorage in January is usually in the 20s and low is around 10. It rarely gets to -20.

That's at the airport, which is the warmest part of the Anchorage area in the winter. East side over by the mountains is routinely subzero in December/January.



GO ROCKETS
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5822 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4106 times:



Quoting OOer (Reply 6):
Come on...dont make things appear worst than they are. The high in Anchorage in January is usually in the 20s and low is around 10. It rarely gets to -20.

My guess is that you don't live here, do you? And that you Googled that in an almanac or something?
Don't dare tell me, when I'm working outside in the blowing wind at 45 mph and in -20 temps, that I'm making things worse than they are.
I'm sure you're sitting in a nice warm armchair.

Quoting GRRTVC (Reply 8):
May be not on the same scale but with newer and longer range a/c I could see ANC being overflown.

It's already starting to happen. ANA and NCA, for example, fly here less and less. When NCA dropped the 747-200s in favor of their shiny new -400s, we began to see a LOT less of them.

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 9):
The introduction of the 748F will still keep ANC as a tech stop for the freight world.

Indeed- last year, the airport closed ramp parking spots R-7, 8, 9, 10, and 11 and tore up the concrete. They put in new, thicker concrete with dimensions appropriate for the increased distance of the 748 main wheels to nose wheel span. I didn't word that very well, but I think you know what I mean. So we've now got FIVE 747-800F ready spots... if only Boeing will hurry up and build the bird!

But yeah, ANC will continue to be a good place to stop for some time to come.

It's worth mentioning that we've also got three dedicated A380F parking spots. Built by the airport. For FedEx and UPS. Oops.


User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4048 times:



Quoting Chugach (Reply 11):
ANC and FAI share revenues, so there's no real need to "compete" with each other.

A couple of years ago, my airline was seriously looking at moving up to FAI. Sharing revenue is not the point, the ramp charges are cheaper up there than ANC, so from a users perspective revenue sharing doesn't matter. The biggest problem was the hotel situation. It was fine in the winter and the hotels were more than willing to do just about anything, but when the summer months were there they were not willing to take care of the crews the way the hotels in ANC do.

We're in the Hilton, and for the most part it's ok. In the summer you don't have to wait for rooms but it's very noisy!


User currently offlineGRRTVC From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 275 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3970 times:

Don't get me wrong ANC will always have cargo traffic. But like I mentioned and one of the other posters pointed out cargo traffic is down and some airlines are either flying west out of Asia or are already overflying ANC. Not suggesting that ANC will someday have zero cargo traffic but I'm guessing and its only my personal opinion that cargo activity when compared with historical will slowly decline.

As for the Alaska International Airport System (AIAS) whichs consists of ANC and FAI...call me an optimist but I think you will see more of an effort on behalf of the State to 'balance' the airports' activity. It was unfortunate LH, AF, Cargolux left FAI but for them it was more economical to stop in Russia.

Some may recall the debacle that occurred this last May when ANC unveiled their plan for a new runway and the airlines responded with they were not in support of it. Someday yes a runway may be needed but the users were saying not now.


User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1597 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3942 times:

The only hotel I stayed at in ANC is the Millennium Hotel, that's where they put us up at whenever we make it up that way. I've seen some other crews there too but mostly corporate type guys but some freighter guys too. Last time I was there I had an awesome view of the Lake Hood strip that was frozen over.


Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineANCsupercub From United States of America, joined May 2007, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3908 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 12):
My guess is that you don't live here, do you? And that you Googled that in an almanac or something?
Don't dare tell me, when I'm working outside in the blowing wind at 45 mph and in -20 temps, that I'm making things worse than they are.
I'm sure you're sitting in a nice warm armchair.

Hate to get off topic, but I have lived in Anchorage for over 20 years and it isn't that bad at all. If the temperature was -20 and the wind was at 45 mph it would give a windchill of -60 and that just doesn't happen (usually). There is usually a week of bitterly cold temps a winter. It is when the wind kicks up and the temperatures are in the 20's that make it feel so cold the majority of the time. The biggest problem with winter in Anchorage is not the "low temps" it is the length of the winter season.


User currently offlineNwarooster From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1090 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3671 times:
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Quoting ANCsupercub (Reply 16):
The biggest problem with winter in Anchorage is not the "low temps" it is the length of the winter season.

The biggest problem with Anchorage in the winter is NOT the temperature.
It is the short amount of daylight.  old 


User currently offlineChugach From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1041 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3021 times:



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 13):
The biggest problem was the hotel situation.

I think you touched on an important underlying factor: Anchorage has better accommodations than Fairbanks. And come summertime, they are packed to the gills with tourists. The facility at FAI is more geared to gas-n-go ops as opposed to a crew rest stop and/or base. Although I do know that quite a few ANC-based pilots live in the Fairbanks area and commute to Anchorage.

Quoting GRRTVC (Reply 14):
As for the Alaska International Airport System (AIAS) whichs consists of ANC and FAI...call me an optimist but I think you will see more of an effort on behalf of the State to 'balance' the airports' activity. It was unfortunate LH, AF, Cargolux left FAI but for them it was more economical to stop in Russia.

Some may recall the debacle that occurred this last May when ANC unveiled their plan for a new runway and the airlines responded with they were not in support of it. Someday yes a runway may be needed but the users were saying not now.

As I recall, part of the uproar was the fact that the airport system has an extremely under-utilized facility in FAI and does relatively little to market it. FAI in many respects would make an ideal re-fueling spot for many carriers: long runway, good wintertime lift, not affected by weather (lived there five years and the only time the airport closed was for 9/11), not crowded, etc. And I believe FAI is slightly closer to the great circle route than ANC is. Now, if FAI could get DL/NW to stick around through the winter again...but that's for a different conversation.



GO ROCKETS
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5822 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3007 times:



Quoting ANCsupercub (Reply 16):
Hate to get off topic, but I have lived in Anchorage for over 20 years and it isn't that bad at all.

I haven't lived here anywhere NEAR that long, but weather at Uncle Ted Int'l can be quite different from that in the Anchorage Bowl. That's why, sometimes, Korean and Eva can't land at Anchorage, and divert to Elmendorf AFB.
But yeah, it gets very cold out there sometimes. This past winter wasn't bad, but 2006 was killer. We had, as I'm sure you'll remember, our first February in November... then, naturally, it hit again when ACTUAL February came around! Whew, that was tough.

But yes, ANC Int'l was closed one day this week for winds exceeding 60mph. The forecast had been 80mph, so I guess we got lucky.
Delayed all of Alaska's flights for hours, though. Not a fun day for anyone.


User currently offlineAznCSA4QF744ER From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2966 times:

Thank you veryone for your information.

User currently offlineAznCSA4QF744ER From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2747 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Marriott, Captain Cook and Sheraton are stuffed with pilots.

Are these the only three where airlines would pay for crew hotels? From what I see all these hotels are very expensive, I'm sure they can find better hotels not close by the airport and cheaper too...


User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2734 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 12):
My guess is that you don't live here, do you? And that you Googled that in an almanac or something?
Don't dare tell me, when I'm working outside in the blowing wind at 45 mph and in -20 temps, that I'm making things worse than they are.
I'm sure you're sitting in a nice warm armchair.

Actually you can just pull up the avg temps on weather.com and thats what I did, no I dont live there but I have been there in the winter. Also, I used to work in a city that was one of the windiest in the country, at over 5000ft where at times we have had a windchill of 40 below 0. Alse our lowest recorded temperature was 4 degrees colder than ANC. No i'm not sitting in a warm armchair, right now I just arrived at my layover in Nice, France and I am actually laying in bed!


User currently offlineANCsupercub From United States of America, joined May 2007, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2729 times:



Quoting AznCSA4QF744ER (Reply 21):
Are these the only three where airlines would pay for crew hotels? From what I see all these hotels are very expensive, I'm sure they can find better hotels not close by the airport and cheaper too...

Your not going to find better hotels then those in Anchorage (besides the hilton which is up there with them). I'm not sure where they stay, but there are a lot of hotels in midtown that are cheep and close to the airport. I often see pilots in the starbucks on C street and i assume they are staying in the hotels right there.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 19):
But yes, ANC Int'l was closed one day this week for winds exceeding 60mph. The forecast had been 80mph, so I guess we got lucky.

ANC does not close that often due to winds, but yes we do occasionally have extreme weather. I bet that was a hectic day.


User currently offlineANCsupercub From United States of America, joined May 2007, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2724 times:



Quoting OOer (Reply 22):
Also, I used to work in a city that was one of the windiest in the country, at over 5000ft where at times we have had a windchill of 40 below 0.

It gets that cold in Anchorage when your talking windchill..... again every year we tend to go through a couple weeks of bitterly cold weather. If the wind kicks up it can be especially miserable. Of coarse this varies year to year. It could be a lot worse though, you could live in Fairbanks. That is where it gets cold!


25 PhilSquares : At most of the airlines I have been with, the standards for hotels are pretty much what dictates the choices. For instance, it has to have 24 hour ro
26 AA737-823 : Luuucky! Haha, it was..... from what I hear!! I got to work AFTER it was all over!! Score!
27 CosmicCruiser : Us too and depending on your room you get to hear the bars on "E" dumping all the glass bottles in the trash bins around 3am! In the summer they too
28 RFields5421 : Russia may someday compete with Anchorage. But the really BIG advantage of Anchorage which will help it stay busy is the special trade zone / customs
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