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UA Pilot Arrested At LHR: Drinking And Flying  
User currently offlineBrenintw From Taiwan, joined Jul 2006, 1634 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 19307 times:

The BBC is reporting that a UA pilot was arrested at LHR after testing over the limit for alcohol. He has been "removed from duty" by UA and bailed by the police.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/7679165.stm


I'm tired of the A vs. B sniping. Neither make planes that shed wings randomly!
89 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2071 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 19297 times:

He arrived into SFO on UA 931 from LHR this afternoon. UA must have been embarrased. They asked Customs permission to bring him through a side exit due to the fear of having the press outside in the arrivals hall.


John@SFO
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8873 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 19284 times:

If true, not very smart of him. Time will tell. I guess the pull of alcohol overrules common sense once again. It could be a very expensive night, or day of drinking.


It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3944 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 19182 times:
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how would the press even know who he is??? i doubt UA would let him fly back. rather, get a reserve to fly the route and have him as a pax in teh back.


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2071 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 19002 times:



Quoting CALMSP (Reply 3):
how would the press even know who he is??? i doubt UA would let him fly back. rather, get a reserve to fly the route and have him as a pax in teh back.

He was a non rev on the flight. Came off in his civies.



John@SFO
User currently offlineStratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1651 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 18908 times:

I have never understood after the NWA in Fargo then the AWA incident and several others that a pilot would subject himself/herself to drinking before a flight. The TSA and others are always on the lookout for the smell of alcohol on a flight crews breath. I like to drink but I NEVER drive after more than 2 beers max and I never drink less than 12 hrs before I have to work. That is common sense. I am not even a pilot. I can't understand how a flight crew member would take a chance on losing a career over something so stupid. Especially after there has been documented cases of pilots going to jail over this very thing.


NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 18904 times:



Quoting CALMSP (Reply 3):
how would the press even know who he is???

All it would take is someone from within the company (or an possibly airport employee) to talk "on the condition of anonymity."


User currently offlineSSTsomeday From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 1276 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 18754 times:



Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 5):
I have never understood after the NWA in Fargo then the AWA incident and several others that a pilot would subject himself/herself to drinking before a flight.

It's an addiction. Not rational.

Quoting Legacyins (Reply 1):
I guess the pull of alcohol overrules common sense once again.

Yup. He is unfit to fly.



I come in peace
User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 18665 times:



Quoting Legacyins (Reply 4):
He was a non rev on the flight.

Almost certainly for the last time.



Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 18649 times:

...I'm curious how many of these such (confirmed) cases it's going to take before the airlines/government decide to implement an SOP of breathalizer testing before each departure?

I'm sure unions/ACLU/etc will balk, but I'm also more than willing to bet that the carriers (and perhaps even government) will go with it, particularly if it lowers insurance premiums and the like.


User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 18597 times:



Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 9):
...I'm curious how many of these such (confirmed) cases it's going to take before the airlines/government decide to implement an SOP of breathalizer testing before each departure?

Not going to happen. But I do agree that alcohol is a much larger problem in the pilot population than the illegal drugs that are routinely checked for.



Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2755 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 18575 times:



Quoting Jhooper (Reply 10):
Not going to happen. But I do agree that alcohol is a much larger problem in the pilot population than the illegal drugs that are routinely checked for.

Pilots are subjected to random testing for both alcohol and illegal drugs.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 18526 times:



Quoting Jhooper (Reply 10):
Not going to happen

...give it enough time/incidents. If it can happen in cargo transport, it can happen in commercial air service.

Quoting Jhooper (Reply 10):
alcohol is a much larger problem in the pilot population than the illegal drugs

...which is pretty much the case in all aspects of society.


User currently offlineKimberlyrj From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 18476 times:



Quoting CALMSP (Reply 3):
how would the press even know who he is???

As in the USA the British press has the right to freedom of speech.

As the pilot was arrest and charged for the offence the Police are able to release information about the incident including the companies’ name. The Police in this case have respected the person involved and not released the pilots name – however they are with in their rights to release the name of the company he worked for.

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 7):
It's an addiction. Not rational.

That’s totally correct. It’s a serious illness which will never go away, only controlled.

Quoting Jhooper (Reply 10):
Not going to happen. But I do agree that alcohol is a much larger problem in the pilot population than the illegal drugs that are routinely checked for.

I am not sure on this one. Once again it comes down to money. If the tests are cheep and can be conducted in a cost and time effective manor then I think it would be introduced by many airlines.

In London (UK) we have the best underground tube/subway system in the world (also the oldest). Our tube drivers have stricter drinking policies and must stricter testing policies then airline pilots in the UK which make no sense. Both train/tube drivers and pilots are responsible for hundreds of lives so at least they should comply to the same testing standard.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 12):
...which is pretty much the case in all aspects of society.

It can be hard for the person to admit they have a problem with alcohol let alone an airline admitting there is a industry wide problem.

I work on long haul and I will admit it’s a lonely place! Sometimes when you have a few days in a dull city (or a city were your not allowed out of the hotel for security reasons) the only thing to do is drink and chat with the crew – its not good but does happen a lot.

Does anyone remember the Virgin Atlantic incident in Washington DC a few years back with an American pilot (Captain I think) who was arrested for drinking? The Captain claimed it was cough over the counter medicine that was making him act drunk – not sure what happened to that case?

Kimberly.


User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 18469 times:



Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 11):
Pilots are subjected to random testing for both alcohol and illegal drugs.

Yes, but typically after the flight, right? Even if a pilot shows up a little tipsy for a flight, what's the likelihood they'd get caught with alcohol in their system after an 8 hour flight across the pond? Maybe it's done before flight's too; I dunno. But in one year of Part 121 freight flying, I've never been pulled for a random test, and I've only seen it done once to another guy.



Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 18413 times:



Quoting Kimberlyrj (Reply 13):
I am not sure on this one. Once again it comes down to money. If the tests are cheep and can be conducted in a cost and time effective manor then I think it would be introduced by many airlines.

No doubt the tests are relatively inexpensive. But I just don't see a 100% alcohol test flying by the unions and civil rights organizations, at least not in the states. Plus I don't think the airlines want to put the image out there that they don't trust their pilots. Anything like that which puts the spotlight on the professionalism of pilots affects the traveling public in certain ways, and it's not good for business.



Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 18411 times:



Quoting Kimberlyrj (Reply 13):
let alone an airline admitting there is a industry wide problem.

Tombstone Mentality yet again... and while I do so hope it doesn't require that to get something done, history has overwhelmingly shown that that's likely to be the case  Sad

Quoting Kimberlyrj (Reply 13):
Does anyone remember the Virgin Atlantic incident in Washington DC a few years back with an American pilot (Captain I think) who was arrested for drinking? The Captain claimed it was cough over the counter medicine that was making him act drunk – not sure what happened to that case?

...dunno, though I'm sure people here remember the America West flight where BOTH pilots showed up pissy-drunk.


User currently offlineAviators99 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 18401 times:



Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 5):
The TSA and others are always on the lookout for the smell of alcohol on a flight crews breath.

Are you sure that the TSA is charged with being on the lookout for this? I have never heard that before. Do you have a source? Seems out of their jurisdiction by a long way.


User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 18371 times:



Quoting Aviators99 (Reply 17):
Are you sure that the TSA is charged with being on the lookout for this? I have never heard that before. Do you have a source? Seems out of their jurisdiction by a long way.

Since when does the TSA stick to their jurisdiction? The TSA is up to a lot of things that don't necessarily fit their cookie-cutter job description. Remember a few months back when they damaged a number of aircraft in Chicago after "testing" security procedures? How many news stories have you read that say "airport screener detects alcohol on pilot's breath"? I've read a number of them.



Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineDingDong From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 18249 times:



Quoting Kimberlyrj (Reply 13):
The Captain claimed it was cough over the counter medicine that was making him act drunk

Wow, that's gotta be one heck of a cough. Big grin



DingDong, honey, please answer the doorbell!
User currently offlineFn1001 From Moldova, joined Sep 2008, 234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 17764 times:

Does anyone know how much alcohol he had in his breath?
Sure it was more than 9 micrograms of alcohol in 100 millilitres of breath.

Is it confirmed that it was alcohol and not "bad smelling breath" like it happened a few months ago?



Mai bine să-ţi fie rău decît să-ţi pară rău.
User currently offlineAirPortugal310 From Palau, joined Apr 2004, 3626 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 17151 times:



Quoting Kimberlyrj (Reply 13):
The Captain claimed it was cough over the counter medicine that was making him act drunk – not sure what happened to that case?

Even if it was the Robitussin making him woozy, that still would make him unfit to fly in that case.



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlineCrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1862 posts, RR: 42
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 16941 times:
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So I'm reading all these news reports, one thing they don't mention if he was on duty or not.

Was he the PF or just off-duty getting back home? Either way I think alcohol and planes don't go together.



Nothing's worse then flying the same registration twice, except flying it 4 times..
User currently offlineAlexA340B777 From Indonesia, joined Oct 2008, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 16198 times:

What is the time that pilots are not allowed to drink alcohol before they are flying? I have heard that would be 24 hours, can anybody confirm this?


So far travelled to 65 countries on 5 continents on 410 flights
User currently offlineMcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1460 posts, RR: 17
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 15942 times:



Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 22):
Was he the PF or just off-duty getting back home? Either way I think alcohol and planes don't go together.

He was the relief pilot on the flight. Occupying the jumpseat for takeoff and landing. Not condoning or trying to deflect as I am truly embarrassed by his actions. Alcoholism may be a disease but no one forced the person to start drinking. If I started taking drugs and became addicted wouldn't it be my own fault? When you do a job that has to rely on your actions in ensuring a safe operation you need to act responsibly.

Best of luck to this gentlemen but IF this is true I would have a very different view of the allowances to be given for such action.


25 Burnsie28 : Nope, sometimes NW has shown up right before they are about to push back and then they give them the random test.
26 AirNZ : Yes, and which very many OTC products do....which is why the 'offence' is classified as alcohol and drugs related. However, it must certainly be note
27 AAORY : Politically correct BS. It's a choice, not an illness or addiction. Labeling it as an illness just takes away having to take responsibility for one's
28 AirNZ : You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, do you? Your ignorance, is absoluting appaling.. You really need to check indisputable medica
29 Post contains links SFORunner : A VS pilot was on a low-carb diet which produced a false-positive breath test. There was another incident involving another VS pilot later that year
30 ConcordeBoy : well, both psychologically and medically it is indeed defined as a disease. That said, with the exception of newborns suffering FAS, most people CHOO
31 CatIII : Which brings up a point: is it the TSA's job to even do this? Quite right. Alcoholism is a long-term (chronic) disease. It's not a weakness or a lack
32 AAORY : I couldn't care less if you think I'm ignorant. I think anyone like you who buys into the fact that this pilot doesn't have the capacity to choose an
33 AAORY : You're also making the assumption that he is an alcoholic and not just an idiot for getting drunk and going to work.
34 777DAD : The cough medicine theory is plausable. When I was in therapy for my "sickness" we were tested three times a day. A friend of mine blew positive and t
35 KU747 : Why all passengers at airports are going through security check? the answer is: for the safety of the other passengers and other issues such as hijack
36 Readytotaxi : Before we all do the blame game thing, remember the Virgin Atlantic pilot at LHR in December 2006 who had the same thing happen to him. He was found t
37 ConcordeBoy : ...because that's exactly what this industry always has, and apparently always will, do
38 SpeedBirdA380 : Well none of us know the personal circumstances of this pilot and whether he is someone suffering from alcoholism or if he just got carried away and h
39 ConcordeBoy : Why would you have "sympathy" for him for any reason? .....and?
40 Luv2cattlecall : Out of curiosity, are there 1 or 2 people up front on the trains? That's what I'm wondering too...the title is somewhat misleading, it makes it appea
41 SpeedBirdA380 : Ok I would have no sympathy for him. and that to describe all people who suffer from alchoholism/drug addiction as "people without a brain" is just p
42 YYZYYT : Many of these medicines are made with an alcohol base... even some brands of gripe water for kids (that kind works best). Canadians may remember a fo
43 Norcal773 : The guy is not guilty until proven so thus no point to crucify him yet. Remember a VS pilot that got lynched here on A.net after he was arrested for '
44 PIA777 : I think all Planes should have that device in the cockpit in which they have to blow into it and if they are drunk, then the Engines cant start. Kiddi
45 AAORY : I do love the good intellectual arguments like yours. Glad to be on the straight and narrow now. Please try to not be one of the sheople who blindly
46 SpeedBirdA380 : No. Alcohol effects people differently. Some people can drink a lot without it affecting them all that much. And again no. Some aftershave and breath
47 300CAP : If true, it is a shame that the crewmwmber would let this happen while on duty. Keep the drink at home even though G. Tilton's management tacitcs, at
48 Vikkyvik : Or he could have just made a bad decision. It happens. Not everyone who drinks and drives is an alcoholic. Go get yourself an addiction. Let it ruin
49 FrmrCAPCADET : The "medical" school of alcohol and drug addiction does not deny responsibility. Check out a discussion of 'alcoholic intervention', when a person is
50 Malaysia : Listerine can also cause you to fail a breath test.
51 AirNZ : First of all, you need to get your facts right (again!)......I made no assumption whatever regarding anything of the sort, so please enlighten me as
52 Vikkyvik : Not surprising, considering the fact that Listerine is something like 21% ethanol.
53 Wdleiser : Do we know if this was from the night before? Its 8 Hours bottle to throttle and under a .04 % bac. Maybe he slammed a few down 9 hours before flight
54 Vikkyvik : Doesn't make a difference. If you have alcohol in your system, then your judgement can be impaired, whether you (or anyone else) realizes it or not.
55 Joemugg : This is indicative of the times and is no doubt occurring in all professions, sensitive or otherwise. Still, the fact that it reflects upon UAL carrie
56 Post contains links FrmrCAPCADET : Generally for a man a drink will raise his blood levels .02, it takes a lot of drinks to get up to .08. And a healthy person can burn about one drink
57 Slider : Wow, that’s cold. I pray you never have to confront the demons of alcoholism or addiction, whether it’s you or a loved one. You’d change your t
58 SpeedBirdA380 : Indeed. Pardon my ignorance but what is the punishment for an airline pilot who gets caught under the influence? I would imagine if the accusations a
59 AAORY : You're correct. I quoted the wrong statement. A copy/paste error. Forgive me. I meant to quote Reply 7. I would just point out my previous statement
60 Stratosphere : If he actually gets behind the controls he more than likely will face jail time as well as the loss of FAA licence and career...The America West guys
61 ConcordeBoy : so do deadly consequences as a result thereof Says who? ...my father's side of the family is nothing BUT worthless alcoholics, and I'm sure as hell n
62 SpeedBirdA380 : I dont really see the difference to trying board a plane drunk or sat in the cockpit drunk. That is surprising. I would have thought if you were a pi
63 SpeedBirdA380 : Well ok you dont agree. As I mentioned earlier I once met a man who was a success in his life and married with two children. Tragically his wife and
64 Vikkyvik : Yes. Bad decisions typically have bad consequences. No, not everyone can or will agree to that. People have different opinions on things. Sometimes i
65 Stratosphere : Agreed..However the America West guys tried to say since they actually did not FLY that they could not be convicted. That defense did not work appara
66 ConcordeBoy : ....and that amounts to ____ in the great scheme of things? (no offense, BTW, just putting it into actual perspective here)
67 AlexA340B777 : If it´s right what I´ve heard, isn´t both prohibited for airline pilots then?
68 FXramper : It's called alcoholism. Will never happen; period. There is no procedure in place to test at my airline. I've heard of countless times where a flight
69 WildcatYXU : It will never happen. The occurrence of FUI is too low to justify the costs. The breathalyzer costs something, then it would have to be regularly mai
70 Dantiger : I would like to add that with the many airlines going belly up and the flights being cut due to fuel prices and the economy there must be additional s
71 SpeedBirdA380 : Whatever the person reading it wants it to amount to. And to put things in perspective I would guess opinions make up about 95% of the posts here on
72 MillwallSean : I know at least one airline in Europe that always breathtests its flying personnel (malev) At least they used to do it when i was doing a job for them
73 Aviateur : It varies airline to airline, but 12 hours is pretty standard. That is, above and beyond the legal FAA stipulations.
74 AlexA340B777 : Thanks a lot for the info! I think the 24 hours which I have heard of were standard for LH IIRC. Cheers! Alex
75 AAH732UAL : United's limit is 12 hours for all crew (FO and SW). No if, and, or buts about it. The FAA is 8 hours and .04. I would guess UA is .04 as well.
76 Stratosphere : FDX operates under the same deal as the airlines..You get the random via ACARS usually for flight crews and in my case a letter to report usually at
77 BAW716 : There are two very different (and conflicting) viewpoints I have. First, as someone who has experienced detox (for a medical reason -- not as a resul
78 Alias1024 : Many airlines have programs which allow crewmembers the opportunity to admit to their substance abuse problem, without fear of losing their job. My a
79 777DAD : Not trying to,andI'm not blind to it, I'm living it. Been clean about 2yrs. now.I take it you're one of the lucky ones that have never been confronte
80 VTMAA : I am not into labor relations etc. but what I don't understand is why should the union's and ACLU be offended by a mandatory breath test before every
81 ConcordeBoy : Because they see it as a violation of "privacy", and worry about contingencies such as false positives, poorly conducted testing methods, etc-- and h
82 VTMAA : But couldn't one argue the same against passenger security checks?
83 Jhooper : I can't really speak for the ACLU, I'm not a lawyer, and I definitely can't speak for the laws of nations outside the USA, but at the risk of going b
84 DocLightning : I don't think it applies. The litmus test that has historically been applied is the question of whether the test is truly mandatory. So first of all,
85 BAW716 : I agree. Had he gone to the airline and admitted his problem before he got caught, then I would be the at the head of the line to argue the case for
86 Jhooper : I agree that airlines could (legally) implement this practice (still wouldn't fly by the unions, imo), but that the government crosses the line if th
87 Luv2cattlecall : What's a SW? Sky Waitress?
88 AAH732UAL : "Stewardess" and they just kept it, sorta similar to the DCA base designation when IAD was not around. FO-Flight Operations SW-Stewardess * These are
89 AirNZ : You've never been able to put up any intellectual 'argument' on the subject yet. Indeed, you should then apply the same parameters you state by not b
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