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WN At MSP: New Routes?  
User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2688 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5438 times:

Everyone agrees that there will be more to come than just MDW-MSP service. Whenever WN serves a new city it starts a couple routes or many routes. WN will be using three gates at MSP, more than enough for just one route. So what routes do you think WN will start at MSP?

My guesses:
BNA
IAD or BWI
FLL
STL
MCI
LAS
PHX
DEN


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23021 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5418 times:

For what it's worth...

BNA and BWI are probably givens.

I think we'll see at least one of MCI and STL sooner rather than later, as that will permit through service to DAL. They may also do some one-stop flights to HOU.

I'd lump DEN, LAS, PHX, and perhaps MCO and TPA together in the next round of possibilities.

That makes about 6-8 cities, which is about where most smaller WN stations in the middle of the country are.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1036 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5379 times:

Eventually, they will probably add DTW, ISP, PVD, IAD, OMA, OAK, and SEA as well. Why? They're all outstanding performers for the routes' current operators, Northwest. (Not sure NW does MSP-ISP or MSP-PVD, but considering the two airports as outlying or alternate airports for NYC and BOS respectively, NW serves the markets quite extensively.)

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23021 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5356 times:



Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 2):
OMA

 checkmark OMA should be another easy choice (I neglected to mention it before); it's one of a few short routes to existing WN stations.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineNwarooster From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1091 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5358 times:
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Denver is the most logical chose as next the destination.  old 

User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8902 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5358 times:



Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 2):
Eventually, they will probably add DTW, ISP, PVD, IAD, OMA, OAK, and SEA as well

I have my doubts on all 7 of those routes.

MDW has been announced. BWI will most likely happen in the next year. A couple of Florida flights will most likely occur. PHX/LAS as well. I'd look for DEN too. But to expect a huge WN operation at MSP won't happen for quite some time to smaller cities such as DTW, ISP, PVD, etc. aren't going to happen for at least 5 years.


User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1036 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5349 times:



Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 5):
I have my doubts on all 7 of those routes.

MDW has been announced. BWI will most likely happen in the next year. A couple of Florida flights will most likely occur. PHX/LAS as well. I'd look for DEN too. But to expect a huge WN operation at MSP won't happen for quite some time to smaller cities such as DTW, ISP, PVD, etc. aren't going to happen for at least 5 years.

Why?


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12251 posts, RR: 35
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5055 times:
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Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 2):
(Not sure NW does MSP-ISP or MSP-PVD, but considering the two airports as outlying or alternate airports for NYC and BOS respectively, NW serves the markets quite extensively.)

No MSP-ISP, but MSP-HPN has been done. Also, we currently fly MSP-PVD on the CR9.



911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4962 times:

Before we go counting all our eggs-in-one-basket, I should point out that gate space at MSP is pretty tight, and the HHH terminal is no exception.

http://www.mspairport.com/msp/docs/E...on/2020/2020_Vision_Facilities.pdf

Look on page of the document to see a map of the planned new facilities.

There are plans for a massive expansion of the HHH terminal, and assuming the new DL/NW combo keeps its word and makes the Lindbergh terminal exclusively SkyTeam, then all remaining airlines will be moved to HHH.

Assigning gate space, especially with Sun Country, will still be a matter of trying to make everybody happy.

I think this is going to be a tremendous limiting factor in Southwest's expansion into MSP. Currently, they're starting small, but expansion can't just happen.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8543 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4948 times:

ISP... probably a very minimal market but who knows. I don't think after decades of MSP hub service the locals there would suddenly want sub-prime airports like MHT, PVD etc although it's possible.

Better choices might be OAK certainly, SEA certainly, maybe LAX, FLL... things that are not competed on. DEN, PHX, LAS already have quite a lot of competition. OMA, BNA, STL have far less, so that is something to consider. BWI should work.

I could see WN getting pretty large up at MSP... larger than Denver.


User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2688 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4859 times:

NW would probably react to WN starting MSP-DTW. I don't think WN could survive on this route.

AS is starting SEA-MSP so WN probably wouldn't start this route.



It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4816 times:

I certainly think a BNA-MSP route will happen along with a possible MSP-IND, MSP-OMA, and possibly a PHL-MSP and the DEN flights. Those would be a nice assortment to start off with. All with decent O&D I would assume.


Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2458 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4762 times:

Well ,I figure upper mgt folks will keep tabs on what destinations have the highest connections/thrus out of MDW and appropriately add some n/s service to there. I'd assume TPA and MCO for Fall '09, DEN, LAS, PHX sometime as well. MCI perhaps as well. BWI would be a good one as well, that'd cover any need for BDL/ISP/MHT/ALB pax. IND, not really necessary with multiple connecting opps via MDW. BNA, really a big demand for that? I can't imagine that being the case, but people at either locale would know about that better. But that's my 2 cents worth.


"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19230 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4751 times:



Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 12):
BNA, really a big demand for that?

Isn't BNA more of a connecting point for WN?



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineJetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2788 posts, RR: 32
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4739 times:

There's a chance we could see maybe....maybe OKC, only for a continuing flight to DAL.

They already do it with DEN, MCI, STL, etc.

DEN-OKC-DAL
MCI-OKC-DAL
STL-OKC-DAL

Why not MSP-OKC-DAL?

As my history shows, I am a cheerleader for OKC Big grin Might be a little bias going on  Wink



No info
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23021 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4739 times:



Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 13):
Isn't BNA more of a connecting point for WN?

There's a decent local market, but connecting to the southeast and Florida (and maybe even to Texas) would also help a lot... especially when it's 1200 miles from MSP to MCO.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4649 times:

After MDW, I am pretty sure that the next TWO destinations to/from MSP would defiantely be DEN and PHX. I have no guess at what the fourth destination would be.

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 10):
AS is starting SEA-MSP so WN probably wouldn't start this route.

I agree to this, but anything can happen.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4611 times:



Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 2):
Eventually, they will probably add DTW, ISP, PVD, IAD, OMA, OAK, and SEA as well. Why? They're all outstanding performers for the routes' current operators, Northwest. (Not sure NW does MSP-ISP or MSP-PVD, but considering the two airports as outlying or alternate airports for NYC and BOS respectively, NW serves the markets quite extensively.)

Ill say none of those will be on WN's nonstop list.

Ill say

MDW, you can serve 6/7 of the above via MDW
DEN
PHX
LAS
MCI thru to DAL/HOU
BWI
MCO


Long shot SEA but it can be done via DEN/SLC. I dont think youll see too many transcons stopping in MSP as it is costly versus STL/MCI/BNA

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 10):
NW would probably react to WN starting MSP-DTW

Biggest problem with MSP-DTW is that it would be a total OD route, with nothing beyond DTW and other than a MSP-SEA nonstop nothing beyond MSP


User currently offlineKstateinALB From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4611 times:



Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 10):
NW would probably react to WN starting MSP-DTW. I don't think WN could survive on this route.

That was what they said when they entered the PHL-PIT route, I'm pretty sure they are doing decent on that one so, who knows.

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 14):
They already do it with DEN, MCI, STL, etc.

DEN-OKC-DAL
MCI-OKC-DAL
STL-OKC-DAL

At least from MCI/STL, they can and do fly to DAL. The flights to OKC are not to get through to DAL, since the Wright Amendment allows them to fly nonstop through.



ALB, DTW, ORD, MDW, MCI, JFK, LGA, LHR, MAD, MSP, IAD, DCA, MCO, ATL, CVG, TUL, MHK, PHL, PIT, DFW, DAL, CLT, IND, AUS,
User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4608 times:



Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 13):
Isn't BNA more of a connecting point for WN?

Yes, and NW does quite well on the MSP-BNA flights. WN could tap that O&D market.



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23021 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4575 times:



Quoting Lexy (Reply 19):
Yes, and NW does quite well on the MSP-BNA flights.

 checkmark  Looks like they enjoyed a $0.25 stage-adjusted RASM last quarter, the sixth-highest in the NW domestic system. The 88% load factor isn't anything to sneeze at, either.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4403 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4512 times:
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Quoting Af773atmsp (Thread starter):
My guesses:
BNA
IAD or BWI
FLL
STL
MCI
LAS
PHX
DEN

That list looks pretty good to me. BWI for sure over IAD, and maybe a MCO or TPA flight eventually. FLL is poorly served from MSP IMO, so that would be a great O&D flight.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):
Eventually, they will probably add DTW, ISP, PVD, IAD, OMA, OAK, and SEA as well.

All long shots except OMA and maybe OAK.

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 8):
Assigning gate space, especially with Sun Country, will still be a matter of trying to make everybody happy.

Not to sound negative, but the future of SY at this point sounds shaky, and if so a few gates would open for WN.

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 14):
There's a chance we could see maybe....maybe OKC, only for a continuing flight to DAL.

Unlikely. The DAL flights will likely go MSP-MCI/STL-DAL, which is a much larger market.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD.
User currently offline4everRC From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 325 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4485 times:



Quoting KstateinALB (Reply 18):
That was what they said when they entered the PHL-PIT route, I'm pretty sure they are doing decent on that one so, who knows.

True, but US doesn't react to a turf war the same was NW does (don't poke Big Red with a sharp stick...)

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 8):
Assigning gate space, especially with Sun Country, will still be a matter of trying to make everybody happy.

I thought that the HHH terminal, when the expansion is complete, would be all common use gates. Did I read that, or dream that up?



Nobody served our republic like Republic!
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4424 times:



Quoting Nwarooster (Reply 4):
Denver is the most logical chose as next the destination. old

I really don't know about DEN for a couple of reasons.

1) There is not that much O/D traffic between the two cities (enough, but not TONS, it's not like Chicago and Minneapolis).

2) Lots of competition, WN would be the forth airline on this, after NW, UA, and F9.

3) It is a legacy hub on either side - that's two airlines that will fight tooth and nail with them.

4) WN's costs are no longer all that different than anyone else's anymore. They have no real advantage. Hell, like every other airline, they are now losing money.

5) Loyalty, UA and F9 have good loyalty in DEN (though WN is gaining ground) and NW is strong in MSP, they'd have to spend big on marketing for the route.

Quoting 4everRC (Reply 22):

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 8):
Assigning gate space, especially with Sun Country, will still be a matter of trying to make everybody happy.

I thought that the HHH terminal, when the expansion is complete, would be all common use gates. Did I read that, or dream that up?

The whole plan to move all non-skyteam airlines to HHH seems to be quite quiet and without steam - I think the metropolitan airports commission wants to see what the DL/NW merger means for traffic, if Sun Country will survive, and other things before they plow the money into massive expansion and moving traffic all over. AA is trying to grow, maybe they'll move over to HHH, leaving E concourse to the Star Airlines (assuming Frontier moves to HHH).

I've heard nothing about HHH Terminal going to all common use, and frankly, it would seriously surprise me - I would imagine the current Concourse E carriers would be less than enthusiastic about it.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4412 times:



Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 23):
I really don't know about DEN for a couple of reasons.

Ok, explain why WN flies DEN-SLC then.


25 PanAm747 : I agree that it's a wait and see with the HHH terminal - DL's plans for MSP, Sun Country's survival, and the hopeful rebound in the economy. Frontier
26 BOStonsox : MSP is one of the largest (if not the largest) markets with only one airline on the route from the Boston area, so I think MSP-PVD/MHT is possible, bu
27 Stratosphere : I wish WN would come to MEM or atleast to the Tunica MS airport..I would like to see WN kick the sticks out from under the evil empire.
28 SANFan : When many say, "there are hardly any gates at MSP for WN", let's remember DEN and how there were no gates there either. Now they're at what, 9 or 10 w
29 B752OS : I don't see WN starting PVD/MHT-MSP any time soon. NW already runs MSP-PVD and there are other markets WN would connect out of MSP first.
30 PVD757 : I like this list as well. MCI would be one that I might doubt (you can get to HOU via MDW). It all depends on how much WN wants 1-stop connections to
31 WA707atMSP : But once CO joins Star Alliance, they may move to HHH, and if CO moves, Frontier would move with them. AA seems to be in steady state mode, now that
32 Cubsrule : I don't know. If you look south to STL, WN has ceded the direct west coast market to AA, WN has nearly 80 flights at STL, and the AA hub isn't nearly
33 Joeljack : I really think you can safely add OMA and MCI with 3 flts/day each to that list too. I bet BWI would only get 2 flights per day and not 4 because of
34 PanAm747 : Honestly and truly, I'm not trying to be argumentative...but if WN has three gates at MSP, why is it only starting with just flights to MDW? Why have
35 AirframeAS : It will be much more than that. Mark my words.
36 TxAgKuwait : First of all, here are the O&D numbers for Q1 2008 for MSP: So, we know for sure about Chicago. I think we can safely assume that WN will, at some tim
37 Lexy : The proof's in the pudding here and you just made my point. Thanks for the numbers!
38 Burnsie28 : WN even said they are very hesitant to add more than just MDW right now, plus they cut even more down on expansion for next year. According to MAC ch
39 Burnsie28 : Forgot to add, so a combined DL/NW would have 33.4% market share. Also WN's passengers are down in IND 14.8%
40 TxAgKuwait : Burnsie, unless you can find a source.....I am going to suggest that the above captioned information (as you posted) is incorrect. I know if you corr
41 Cubsrule : ...as did DEN-STL. How did that work out?
42 TN757Flyer : I'm not so sure about this one. Other than JAX, there's no destination I can think of a passenger from MSP could connect in BNA that they cannot do t
43 Cubsrule : The advantage for BNA is that it isn't MDW. Just because of geography, WN is going to have to connect folks to BDL and PDX over MDW. BNA is an attrac
44 Sunking737 : Is it just me or is this topic going round and round and round............I'm so dizzy my head is spinning, round and round.............
45 SANFan : True. And as I mentioned in my earlier post, I don't think it's by accident that WN has so many connecting points. Generally, due to the high frequen
46 TN757Flyer : I guess a lot will depend on just how much WN plans to grow in MSP. I think they surprised a lot of people by going in there. We all know they are ra
47 Af773atmsp : I've heard KEF-MSP service is a pretty profitable route for FI but if FI did decide to close this route would BA, LH, or any other European carrier wa
48 Af773atmsp : Oops wrong thread. Got confused with the Minnesota aviaiton thread. Mods can delete.
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