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DL To Start Monrovia, Liberia Service  
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15535 times:

Delta Expands Africa Presence With First-Ever Flight Between Atlanta and Monrovia, Liberia
Wednesday October 22, 12:00 pm ET


ATLANTA, Oct. 22, 2008 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Delta Air Lines (NYSE:DAL - News), the only U.S. network carrier to serve Africa, today announced it will expand its service to the African continent with the introduction of the first and only flight between Hartsfield Jackson Atlanta International Airport and Monrovia's Roberts International Airport, Liberia*. The service, which will make a stop at Amilcar Cabral International Airport on Sal Island, Cape Verde*, will start in June, 2009.

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/081022/152721.html

104 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11689 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15528 times:

Wow - quite impressive.

User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4676 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15530 times:

Wow... a DL 757 to Africa... no thanks! but go Delta.


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3979 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15483 times:
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only an hour ground time in Liberia???? talk about short!!!!


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineNWA757boy From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15485 times:

To Africa on the 757 now....wow. Well best of luck to the route. Hopefully it works for them!

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15468 times:



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 2):
a DL 757 to Africa.

very nice.... just hope that mug doesn't have to stop anywhere though:
this flight's just as long as EWR-TXL, but might find the diversion options--- um, limited  Wink



User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4676 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15433 times:

Will people be able to book to/from Sal Island? Doesnt sound like it. Im guessing DKR was just outside the reach of the 757.


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15422 times:

Excellent news by DL.

Monrovia is a growing capital and Liberia is a country which emerged from a very diffult period of 14 years of a horrendous civil war. The country is now well managed and the serious administration put the country in a path of sustainable growth. Liberia has Africa's first woman head of state and she is doing a very professional work in reconstruction of Liberia uner UN guidance.

Congratulations for DL and especially for selecting a destination which deserved the new flight in Africa. Here I mention again the importance of sustainable economic development for destinations to get more flights. There may be perhaps other destinations which could have higher yields or the benefit of oil but DL needs to serve a sustainable destination in which it does not run the risk of corruption and bribes!

DL new flight will certainly help in Liberia's development process. I am very happy with the news.

Rgs,


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3592 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15421 times:

Why stop at SAL? Are the legs of the 757 too short? I would think that Dakar would make more sense if necessary for a tech stop, given that DL already has a presence there.

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15402 times:

Here is the schedule of the weekly service:

DL214 ATL1510 - 0215+1SID0320+1 - 0705+1ROB 757
DL215 ROB0810 - 0955SID1125 - 1715ATL 757

Rgs,


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15329 times:

SID is about 400 miles shorter than DKR.

DL should have no problem making the flight to SID on a year round basis. DKR is pushing it.

Westbound flights from Africa fly very near BDA so there is indeed a place to set down if necessary, esp. in the winter when headwinds would be the biggest concern. But even CHS is an hour shorter than ATL and they would likely stop there on an unscheduled basis or SJU on a scheduled basis if they know they can't make even SID-ATL.

Part of DL's decision to stop at SID may also be so crew is not left at ROB; since the flight only operates 1 day/week, they will have to bring the crew in/out of ROB or SID since you can't expect them to accept a one week layover. I'm guessing they will add some other Africa service that will stop at SID so they can rotate the crew in/out of SID.


User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3979 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15298 times:
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why is there such a long layover on the island????


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineADRIANGALT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15280 times:

I'll give it 6 months MAX....

User currently offlineIluv747400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 372 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15264 times:

Based on the schedule, it looks to me like the crew change will take place in Sal on the return. The eastbound stop in Sal and the turn in Monrovia are both 65 minutes, but the westbound stop in Sal is 90 minutes.

Could that be just because more fuel would need be loaded prior to the transatlantic journey? Or does a crew change seem more likely?

I would also guess that the Delta crew would prefer to overnight in Sal rather than Monrovia.


User currently offlineJustplanes From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 886 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15251 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 10):
Part of DL's decision to stop at SID may also be so crew is not left at ROB; since the flight only operates 1 day/week, they will have to bring the crew in/out of ROB or SID since you can't expect them to accept a one week layover. I'm guessing they will add some other Africa service that will stop at SID so they can rotate the crew in/out of SID.

You can get to Sal from Dakar via Praia... that might be a cheaper solution than positioning a crew in from the US to Sal since DL has flights in and out of Dakar.
Or they might even be able to charter a small aircraft to do that... I remember Sabena used some small aircraft to ferry crews within Africa...


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10466 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15232 times:



Quoting Iluv747400 (Reply 13):
I would also guess that the Delta crew would prefer to overnight in Sal rather than Monrovia.

How do you overnight when it only operates weekly?



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23058 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15212 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 10):
But even CHS is an hour shorter than ATL and they would likely stop there on an unscheduled basis or SJU on a scheduled basis if they know they can't make even SID-ATL.

 checkmark But for the need to clear customs at the first point of entry, SJU might make more sense than SID for the stop. SJU-ROB is ~100 miles shorter than ATL-SID.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10466 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15123 times:



Quoting Mayor (Reply 15):
Quoting Iluv747400 (Reply 13):
I would also guess that the Delta crew would prefer to overnight in Sal rather than Monrovia.

How do you overnight when it only operates weekly?

Another thought. If it does only operate once weekly, does the return crew deadhead to ROB and the original crew deadback to ATL? Certainly the same crew couldn't operate ATL-SID-ROB-SID-ATL because of crew time issues, could they?



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineJunction From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 768 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 15095 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 7):
selecting a destination which deserved the new flight in Africa. Here I mention again the importance of sustainable economic development for destinations to get more flights.

I'm glad you gave this information, because I have been checking Monrovia on the Internet and find no enticing information about the destination. It is interesting to note the city was named after former U.S. president James Monroe however.
Is the airport terminal nice?


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4676 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 15073 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 16):
But for the need to clear customs at the first point of entry

A fuel diversion wouldnt require pax to clear customs. When JFK bound aircraft divert for fuel to SWF BDL and PVD the pax remain on board then the aircraft departs. CHS is a customs landings rights airport and does have customs staff (shared with the port) and even a customs facility in the terminal. ... not that it would need to be used for that purpose.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 15011 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 16):
But for the need to clear customs at the first point of entry, SJU might make more sense than SID for the stop. SJU-ROB is ~100 miles shorter than ATL-SID.

it is possible to do a crew change or to refuel for unscheduled landings such as diversions w/o passengers clearing customs at the diversion point. DL has had diversions all over the SE for int'l flights and only when the flight itself cancels such as for a mechanical when a replacement plane can't be brought in is there a need for passengers to clear customs. If a crew times out, they are usually placed right back on the same aircraft and deadheaded with a new crew on to ATL so there isn't a lot of incentive for the crew to complain unless they have diverted already or the flight was delayed in leaving its origin point since a new crew will have to be flown in, likely from ATL. However, if a crew member has to get off the plane, Customs is much more willing to get off without passing through CBD as passengers would be required to do. I don't know the specifics of how it is done but I know it has happened at airports that do not have an open FIS at the time of diversion. It doesn't work that way for passengers but it can for crews.

I still think the answer will be that DL will put another flight into SID to another destination such that the crews between these two flights can rotate at SID. There are a number of other destinations in Africa that could work well with a 757 stop at SID.


User currently offlineSimairlinenet From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 917 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 15012 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 10):
I'm guessing they will add some other Africa service that will stop at SID so they can rotate the crew in/out of SID.

Three more cities TBA...

[Edited 2008-10-22 10:12:12]

User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4913 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 15010 times:
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Quoting Junction (Reply 18):
I'm glad you gave this information, because I have been checking Monrovia on the Internet and find no enticing information about the destination

Here's more info about Monrovia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monrovia

ROB used to be Pan Am's pseudo-'hub' in Africa when PA had extensive services to the continent. ROB was the layover point for the crews - they would work the flight from JFK to DKR and ROB, layover in ROB, and then work tag-ons from ROB to LOS, ACC, Abidjan, Kinshasa, Douala, Contonou, or Libreville, etc during the day, and then return to ROB for the night.

Ask any ex-Pan Amer at Delta, and they will have stories about ROB!


User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3283 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 14968 times:



Quoting Junction (Reply 18):
Is the airport terminal nice?

Have a look and decide for yourself.  Smile

http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos....rovia%20Roberts%20Field%20-%20GLRB



.......
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6778 posts, RR: 32
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 14902 times:



Quoting Mayor (Reply 17):
If it does only operate once weekly, does the return crew deadhead to ROB and the original crew deadback to ATL? Certainly the same crew couldn't operate ATL-SID-ROB-SID-ATL because of crew time issues, could they?

What I would imagine happening would be for the SAL-ROB-SAL crew to deadhead both ways between ATL and SID. The crew working ATL-SID gets a bit over 9 hours' rest at SID before working the return SID-ATL trip. It sounds grueling but it's also a good way to get ~ 16 hours of pay in for working just a bit over 24 hours. If one were to work all those weekly trips, it'd be possible to pretty much work three days on and four days off and still hit close to 90 hours for a month.

Quoting Junction (Reply 18):
It is interesting to note the city was named after former U.S. president James Monroe however.

Well this is due to the fact that the nation of Liberia was founded by freed slaves who returned from the United States to Africa (thus the name "Liberia").

I do hope the service works; Liberia can sure use a helping hand in economic development after its horrific civil war.


25 Junction : Interesting. Will DL 757s be the first scheduled western jets there since PA then? I can't even find any current schedules to Europe with anyone. In
26 Yellowtail : My guess is that DL plans to do to africa with the 752 what CO did in Europe....only they will make a mini crew base in ROB. I don't see them taking u
27 HB-IWC : My money is on Freetown, Banjul and Conakry.
28 Panamair : SN currently flies from BRU to ROB with an A333.
29 PanAm747 : I remember my Pan Am guide from 1985 showing ROB as a pseudo-hub for PA...and then U.S. airlines pulled out completely. It is a great sign to see regu
30 WorldTraveler : not on a regular basis unless the fares are astronomically high;even Africa fares are not that high. Not only are you tying up a bunch of seats on th
31 Junction : Right you are. Now I can see AA even has codeshare on the SN flights. Who knew???
32 Yellowtail : So anyone figure out yet if they wil lbe able to carry pax between the Canaries and the US?
33 Post contains links and images Mayor : Now, I wonder if you could non-rev to SID? Probably not, as there probably won't be any DL agents or contract agents on the island to process any non-
34 RL757PVD : Given that JFk is closer, I wonder if we will see something like JFK-SID-XXX Perhaps NBO or maybe something of similar range like Abidjan or Sao Tome
35 PVD757 : This great news. The PVD market is home to one of the largest US-Liberian populations and the largest Cape Verdean population in the U.S. Regarding th
36 ScottB : I think you mean Cape Verde... But I don't see why not given that TACV has rights to operate to the U.S. Well I guess it all depends on how many seat
37 SAAB900 : Didn't North American Airlines try a service between America & Banjul? If I remember correctly it didn't last too long! Dave(SAAB900)
38 Panamair : SID-NBO will be a stretch at more than 3,700 nm. Most sub-Saharan destinations (not already served by Delta) however don't have enough 'connection' w
39 Rwy04LGA : Islas Canarias, just off the coast of Morocco, are 1800km to the NNE of the Cape Verde Islands.
40 HAJFlyer : My money is on Freetown, Malabo (why? oil) and - if they manage to secure landing rights - Luanda. AFAIK Malabo was the most profitable destination f
41 Airbazar : One big difference: SID-ATL is a "tropical" route and does not face the jetstream as all the Europe-US flights do.
42 RL757PVD : Wouldnt the tradewinds have the opposite effect and act like a jetstream for flights going back if they flew a more southerly route on the return?
43 MrLurker : One could even venture to say that it would be possible to mimic some aspects of NRT with SID... That sure would open up some new possibilites with DL
44 Davescj : Also Pres. Sir Leaf (sp?) has publically said that she wants the US Military AFRICOM in her country. I think DL could be the beginning of a sustained
45 RL757PVD : I was thinking that for wither DKR or SID Even if less than daily to: NBO CPT Abidjan ROB Durban ACC ( to connect from ATL, plus days not operated fro
46 CatIII : U.S. Africa Command will be headquartered at Kelley Barracks in Stuttgart, Germany, for the foreseeable future. My guess is that if they do move the
47 Simairlinenet : Five cities named, two are correct!
48 TWA902fly : Unless i missed something.... I could see a 1x/week service via SID to Luanda LAD... possibly with 763, which would work anyways becauase arent 757/76
49 Post contains links JustPlanes : Wikipedia already shows the service on its Sal Airport page... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sal_Airport Pretty impressive that more than 20 airlines s
50 FI642 : Having been there- I find it difficult to see how this will work. -no terminal -in the middle of no where -strife within the country Good Luck DL.
51 MaverickM11 : Interesting add, although I find it odd that originating in ATL plus the cost of the SID stopover is better than a nonstop from JFK on a 767. I like R
52 AznMadSci : Shouldn't this read "Delta REALLOCATES Aircraft to Africa With First-Ever Flight Between Atlanta and Monrorvia, Liberia"? WT did say in another threa
53 MrLurker : Your statement was hilarious, and in some ways very true. More announcements will be coming, which will explain my correlation to the NRT hub. I thin
54 MHTripple7 : I definitely agree with you on LAD. But the Angolan government seems to be highly restrictive in allowing foreign carriers to operate there, so it mi
55 Evan767 : Ahh it's that time of the year again.... And I love it! So what I'm expecting to see is daily service from ATL-SID continuing on to another West Afric
56 YOWza : That's assuming it even goes ahead. I would love to be a fly on the wall in a Delta planning meeting when this was green lighted. Interesting... Alth
57 Kohflot : I wouldn't be surprised if Bamako is one of the three that hasn't been mentioned. Or Abidjan..
58 MaverickM11 : Like I said, I do like ROB as a growing market, but this does smell a bit like a dart thrown at a map.
59 Evan767 : I would say Delta hits a bullseye 85% of the time they throw a dart at the map.
60 N770WD : Remember that Delta planning teams have extensive records from Air France code-shares to review. They have a very good picture of both leisure and bu
61 WorldTraveler : that is true for the 767s which have driven most of DL's international growth from 2005 to 2008. However, DL's growth from 2009 forward is largely be
62 Cws818 : Since AF doesn't fly to ROB - with or without a DL code-share, those records probably were not a big help in making this route decision.
63 ConcordeBoy : ...that, and anyone notice how much that pic looks like the island from Jurassic Park? perhaps, but they'd be much better off placing it in DKR, as i
64 MCOGVADCA : Risky...I love it. Way to take chances, DL!
65 MaverickM11 : I looked into it a little more, and the local market between ATL and ROB is about the same as ATLMAO, but the total US market is much smaller....the r
66 Dispatchguy : I think it is good that, with nearly every other US major withdrawing from markets, that there is at least one out there with the cojones to give some
67 Mayor : Not sure if this makes any difference as SID is just a tech stop, right? Probably no revenue pax rights either to or from there.
68 WorldTraveler : SID has been used as a stopover point for US-Africa flights for years. DL has used it at times as a stopover point for JNB when DKR was unavailable. Y
69 AirFranceJFK : North American operated Baltimore-Banjul-Accra & Accra-Banjul-Baltimore with a Boeing 767 for a few months. Whilst the ACC-BWI flight had some decent
70 AirFranceJFK : Bamako, Abdijan and Conakry would all be great cities. However, with the current AF coverage, I don't see why DL would want enter the market on their
71 AirFranceJFK : Some nice hotels & beaches on Sal Island. Not sure what its like during the winter months, however during the summer, they're usually packed with Eur
72 Funkywabit : Be careful you might get hit with the dart flying toward the map on the wall
73 Viscount724 : Morocco is generally considered as North Africa, not West Africa.
74 Viscount724 : But are business travellers really going to fly on a once-a-week service when they can fly daily via CDG on AF with much more flexibility and widebod
75 Mayor : If I'm not mistaken, in 2003 or 2004, we operated SLC-CUN, once a week, on Saturdays.
76 MaverickM11 : Right, but as far as carriers that are strong in West Africa it's #1 Air France and then #2 Royal Air Maroc. Within West Africa it's pretty bleak.
77 ConcordeBoy : 1) AF doesn't fly there at all, much less daily 2) the obsession with business pax isn't exactly as pressing when you're essentially the only one in
78 Frostbite : Monrovia...wow, never had this one of my short list of prospective DL African destinations. This one is so unexpected that I'm compelled to emerge fro
79 USAirALB : omg.. saratoga county airport's terminal looks better than that!
80 Fly2YYZ : Which also may contribute to the reason why a 757 was used rather than a larger aircraft as customs and immigration upon arrival into Liberia if it w
81 CALMSP : so when can we expect to see the announcement on the next new destinations??
82 MAH4546 : Monrovia already has scheduled widebody A330 service on SN to Brussels.
83 Viscount724 : I believe Pan Am operated 747s to Monrovia.
84 FlyDeltaJets : Is PAP maybe next. I know its not Africa but.....
85 MaverickM11 : I'm surprised they haven't added that already
86 Post contains links Dispatchguy : Looks like B707s, at least in late spring 1973... http://www.departedflights.com/PA042973p20.html
87 Viscount724 : I was referring to 1985 when they operated a JFK-DKR-ROB-NBO flight. I'm pretty sure that was a 747.
88 ConcordeBoy : ...why? How do you make that work without the MFW O&D?
89 Foxecho : as far as remember in the late 80s it was an A310 via the FRA hub to NBO Andrew JFK/MEM/MCI
90 Post contains images Frostbite : I'm not sure exactly when the Whales started to replace the 707s in Africa, but Pan Am did operate 747s through Monrovia in the early/mid-1980s, acco
91 MaverickM11 : Queens, NY
92 Azstar : I remember stopping in Monrovia on my way to Nairobi on Pan Am, years ago. Everyone had to deplane while they "cleaned" the plane. Women with twig br
93 N702ML : Just to shed some light on the few comments that have been made about Pan Am's operations in Morovia.... Effective April 29, 1973... Pan Am operated t
94 Viscount724 : Monrovia and Nairobi are missing from your schedule summaries and they definitely served both points during at least part of the period covered. Thei
95 Frostbite : I suspect that the sked N702ML posted only shows "nonstop" legs, without any tag-ons. As you point out NBO was served from ROB via LOS. Note that man
96 SN-MD11 : Back to the real topic: I believe DL made the right choice. SN Brussels is making tons of money out of this ROB route. And most of the traffic is US p
97 Frostbite : Various sources indicate that 3 more destinations are in the works...BJL and FNA appear likely since they are in easy striking distance of SID and ar
98 MCOGVADCA : If they can get LAD, they'll be in there in a heartbeat. The market is booming, as Angola's 'nascent' oil industry might even pass Nigeria this year a
99 DeltaL1011man : DL still has growing room with the 763ER fleet too. Could the 752 make DKR-SID? That way they can be able to move PAX to and from the JNB/CPT/JFK fli
100 Cubsrule : You've lost me... DKR-SID is less than 400 miles.
101 ConcordeBoy : I'm pretty sure he meant can it make DKR-ATL/JFK ...the former, probably not. The latter, it should be able to do without much problem.
102 Cubsrule : That makes a lot more sense.
103 Ocracoke : These are the Africian authorities DL got via the Pan Am purchase, via Pan Am Route 133, Segment One: Casablanca, Dakar, Monrovia, Abidjan, Accra, Lag
104 Frostbite : It is tough for me to imagine DL landing in Kinshasa at this time. I think it is too far away from Sal Island to allow a single crew to fly the 757 b
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