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Aerolineas Argentinas To Be Seized By Government  
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6857 times:

Argentina's government has decided to seize the country's top airline, Aerolineas Argentinas. Talks with the current owners over a price have broken down, a leading newspaper reported on Thursday. You may consider AR a nationalised airline.

http://www.reuters.com/article/marke...sNews/idINN2342485420081023?rpc=44

Rgs,

[Edited 2008-10-23 09:02:43]

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6817 times:

They also seized major companies' pension funds as well.

User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3295 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6782 times:

From the article:

"Local media have reported that Marsans values the companies at between $250 million and $450 million, while the Argentine government has said it should not have to pay a dime."

So the government seized the airline that it never intended to pay for.... Nice....


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6786 times:



Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 2):
So the government seized the airline that it never intended to pay for.... Nice....

It "nationalised" the airline in the same style other rulers did in the region in the recent past, I do not need to mention names, right? I really do not think this was the best solution for the AR.

Rgs,


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6773 times:

I'm wondering what will be the implications for their int'l routes.

Should this government begin to give AR non-market advantages/practices, other nations aren't just going to stand by.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8387 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6733 times:
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Close in down and put it out of its mysery. Then hire all the employees back after buying out a few thousand for early retirement. Start a new AR...

User currently offlineCityofAthens From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6657 times:

I think the Government only did what the Argentine people and employees of AR wanted ... from what I've seen and read in the Argentine press, there wasn't much popular support for AR's Spanish owners; I'm not sure Marsans actually did AR any good ... every time I've operated into EZE with my own airline, I've seen dozens of AR aircraft parked up on the far side of the airfield, slowly gathering dust .... I can't remember seeing this before the privatization, the new Iberia-esque liveries etc. ...so I'm not sure what good Spanish ownership has done for this airline.

User currently offlineATLTPA From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6606 times:

What's next?! A US Government bailout of Wall Street investment banks?

Seriously, keep in mind that it has been the government of Argentina which has been pumping cash into AR to keep it alive since July or so. And a re-nationalization (already approved by Argentina's Congress) was already on the way.

As many of the Argentine posters in previous threads have eloquently stated, there are many allegations that Grupo Marsans (AR's majority owner until this seizure) hasn't been dealing with their "investments" in Aerolineas or Austral in good faith. It is no surprise that the talks broke down to anyone who has followed this saga.

At least this will put the fate of AR squarely on the shoulders of Argentina's government and its unions.

Certainly an ultimate settlement between the government and Grupo Marsans will be had in Argentina's courts. That's fine, too. As a friend of mine says: "baby, that's what the courthouse was made for!"


User currently offlineSilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2112 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6554 times:



Quoting ATLTPA (Reply 7):
As a friend of mine says: "baby, that's what the courthouse was made for!"

Your friend is a lawyer isn't he?


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6448 times:



Quoting ATLTPA (Reply 7):
At least this will put the fate of AR squarely on the shoulders of Argentina's government and its unions.

I honestly dont think the Argentinian Government (or taxpayers for this sake) should be busy handling the crisis situation of AR while at this moment there are far more important issues they should be busy considering the scarce resources/finance available.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11439 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6396 times:
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Oh no! Any way, thanks for the news Hardi

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 1):
They also seized major companies' pension funds as well.

Seems that they expect the world to continue to believe on a good economic environment.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 5):
Close in down and put it out of its mysery. Then hire all the employees back after buying out a few thousand for early retirement. Start a new AR...

Would be the best (and smart) decision.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12480 posts, RR: 34
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6363 times:

I can imagine that this could put AR's Madrid route - arguably its most important under serious threat; think they can take a Spanish company's assets, worth $2-300m, and not have any consequences ... I don't think so.

Don't cry for us, Argentina ... as Marsans may soon say ...


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11439 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6331 times:
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Quoting Kaitak (Reply 11):
I can imagine that this could put AR's Madrid route - arguably its most important under serious threat; think they can take a Spanish company's assets, worth $2-300m, and not have any consequences ... I don't think so.

Well they can always ask for the right to seize assets.

In the end, IB will be very happy as many customers will be afraid of booking AR flights.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6281 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):
In the end, IB will be very happy as many customers will be afraid of booking AR flights.

Correct. I think foreign carriers, among them TAM, are the winners of this situation. As you stated many times, TAM counts on a lot of feeding traffic from/to EZE.

Rgs,


User currently offlineDCAjet From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 434 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6274 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
Argentina's government has decided to seize the country's top airline, Aerolineas Argentinas. Talks with the current owners over a price have broken down, a leading newspaper reported on Thursday. You may consider AR a nationalised airline.

Gentlemen, this is not a fact yet. Reuters may have jumped the gun here.

Until the Kirchner administration actually announces the "nationalization" of the airline, this is pure speculation.

Regards,



"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6229 times:



Quoting DCAjet (Reply 14):
Gentlemen, this is not a fact yet. Reuters may have jumped the gun here.

Until the Kirchner administration actually announces the "nationalization" of the airline, this is pure speculation.

Regards,

The above news is confirmed. I did not want to provide links in Spanish because any here dont read Spanish. But here is a link from La Nacion:

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=1062435

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?...ta_id=1062520&pid=5259026&toi=6480

According to the newspaper the nationalisation of AR well under way in the Government and "the Government already decided to nationalise AR" (I quote the last sentence).

Rgs,


User currently offlineATLTPA From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6220 times:



Quoting Silentbob (Reply 8):
Your friend is a lawyer isn't he?

No, a constuction contractor, actually!!


User currently offlineSt530 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6143 times:



Quoting CityofAthens (Reply 6):
Certainly an ultimate settlement between the government and Grupo Marsans will be had in Argentina's courts. That's fine, too. As a friend of mine says: "baby, that's what the courthouse was made for!"

Actually, if they don't agree on compensation, Marsans is likely to take the matter to the international arbitration division of the World Bank under an investment treaty between Spain and Argentina. They are unlikely to let the Argentine courts dictate how much the Argentine Government has to pay.


User currently offlineATLTPA From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6100 times:



Quoting St530 (Reply 17):
Actually, if they don't agree on compensation, Marsans is likely to take the matter to the international arbitration division of the World Bank under an investment treaty between Spain and Argentina. They are unlikely to let the Argentine courts dictate how much the Argentine Government has to pay.

OK, then: "baby, then that's what the international arbitration division of the World Bank is made for!"


User currently offlineCityofAthens From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6071 times:

st530 you misquoted me!  Wink

User currently offlineLatinPlane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2728 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6050 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 9):
I honestly dont think the Argentinian Government (or taxpayers for this sake) should be busy handling the crisis situation of AR while at this moment there are far more important issues they should be busy considering the scarce resources/finance available.

I think that's for the Argentine people to decide. Only they should understand what is best for them and their country.

Not that I don't disagree with your point of view.

 Smile LatinPlane


User currently offlineMestrugo From Chile, joined Apr 2007, 237 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5892 times:

elpais.com from Spain publishes a supposed rebuttal from the Argentinian government:
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/econo.../elpepueco/20081024elpepueco_1/Tes

According with this article, Argentina's secretary of Transports declared that "the government will buy Aerolineas and Austral by buying their stocks".

The main problem so far is that both Marsans and the Argentinian government disagree about Aerolineas' current value. Marsans says its value is between 250 and 300 million dollars, while the Argentinian government affirms they have got a negative value of 600 dollars.

They still have got until Oct. 30 to reach an agreement.


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5828 times:

Our Hermanos to the south have been having a real wild ride lately. Best of luck, but things don't look so good.  Sad


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11439 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5807 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 13):
Correct. I think foreign carriers, among them TAM, are the winners of this situation. As you stated many times, TAM counts on a lot of feeding traffic from/to EZE.

And will be upgrading one of the flights to A332... one that allows connections... to MAD !



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3295 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5770 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 3):
It "nationalised" the airline in the same style other rulers did in the region in the recent past, I do not need to mention names, right? I really do not think this was the best solution for the AR.

Since english is not your native tounge, all I can say is "huh?"


25 Summa767 : Do you mean "tongue"? English should start with a capital letter too.
26 Hardiwv : Thanks for the news, Lipe. I am sure TAM will capitalise on the situation and the A332 was long expected in EZE. I am sorry for the English. I indeed
27 AcNDTTech : If the FAA (gov't.) has the power to shut an airline down here in the U.S., isn't it a similar situation if the Argentine Gov't. takes over an airline
28 LipeGIG : One issue is to shut down an airline because of a given issue like security or financial condition, the other is take possession of assets just becau
29 JRDC930 : I really hope AR, comes of of this ok, i realy like their c/s and they had good service when i flew them... Wish they would do this in th US... , that
30 Alianza : But. they could both be right? Wasn't Marsans debt aprox. $800 million? If AR has a current value of about $200 million, subtract Marsans debt of $80
31 LipeGIG : Why not to hire PWC/KPMG to audit it and got a real and valid number ? Of course i'm selling i want more, i'm buying i want less.
32 Post contains links SKY1 : Argentina's credibility is in question with this matter. International investment should not be scared away. It's easily understandable why the Argent
33 MasseyBrown : Y un reloj despertador. Lots of governments are trying socialism these days.
34 Hardiwv : I agree. And I am sure that if the government nationalises or expropriates AR the Marsans Group will bring the case for an international arbitration
35 LVZXV : There are two sides to this: 1) All Spanish administrations since 1991 were nothing short of awful, with some real horror stories out there if you ar
36 LipeGIG : Exactly! And the chances to see their A340 / B744 and others grounded in Argentina because they will be seized overseas will just make more happy for
37 Jigarciar : Talking on July to some important Spanish CEO's, the security for investments in Argentina is a real problem (talk, specially, about BBVA and Repsol-Y
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