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Will UAL Purchase The B 717?  
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9216 posts, RR: 15
Posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1699 times:

Hi everyone!

We had so many arguments on whether or not UAL will buy the B 737NG. Some believe that it might while some do not.

Do you guys think UAL will ever go for the B 717? It would be ideal for routes between YVR and SEA. As well as those United Express Routes.



29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAgnusBymaster From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 652 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1638 times:

Considering it has roughly the same seating capacity as the 737-500 (already in the UA fleet), I would be rather surprised.

User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9216 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1624 times:

I am sure they can be assigned to fly those United Express Routes.



User currently offlinePtica2000 From Slovenia, joined Nov 2000, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1620 times:

I think they will stay on Airbus and they will buy more A319 or 320 if they need them!

User currently offlineFlashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2903 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1602 times:
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Aren't 717s too large for Express considering the scope clause of the pilots contracts?

User currently offlineILUV767 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3141 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1584 times:

United Airline wrote:


Hi everyone!

We had so many arguments on whether or not UAL will buy the B 737NG. Some believe that it might while some do not.

Do you guys think UAL will ever go for the B 717? It would be ideal for routes between YVR and SEA. As well as those United Express Routes.



Good question. Simple Answer: FAT CHANCE!

Why?

Good question. There is no need for a plane of this size in United's fleet. They already have the 737 and the A32X. They do not need another fleet type in this market.

United Airlines has never operated any of the DC-9 varrients, so why should they start now? They have the Airbusses which can do the job...and can do it better than the 717.

I'm beginning to think that a 737NG order will not happen, but I see that happening before United orders any 717s.

Regarding the United Express routes:

United Express is not United! They are several smaller airlines that have a contract agreement, to operate as United Express feeding people into the United system from smaller markets.

Those airlines are:
-SkyWest
-Atlantic Coast Airlines
-Air Wisconsin
-Great Lakes

Those four airlines serves in every state in the United system (with the exception of Hawaii and Alaska) bringing people to SFO, LAX, DEN, ORD, and IAD.

The goal with Express operations is to move roguhly 50 people on a flight from a smaller market to a hub city. Some markets are smaller requiring a 30 seater or even the dreaded 19 seater. Operating a plane with 100 seats is not wise. If you were to do that, you may as well get a 737 and have mainline do so.

But...what about Air Wisconsin?

Good Question!

Air Wisky is owned by United. Though it is a seperate company, the real big decisions about it are made in ORD. Air Wisky is as important to United, as Comair is to Delta.

They operate 100 seater planes, becasue UA wants to opearte longer flights with mainline equipment. If United wishes, the 146 jets could be phases out and 737s or A319s could be used instead. Those 146s serve larger express markets such as Aspen.

In the future watch Air Wisky as the contract with Great Lakes will be ending soon. My feeling is that ACA and Air Wisky will be beefing up their presence in ORD with RJ's and SkyWest will expand a lot more in Denver. All of this expansion would be done on the aircraft perfict for this market...the CRJ!

Come fly the friendly skies
U N I T E D


User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1551 times:

Being that United already has Airbus A319s & A320s with IAE V2500s they will go for the A318 with P&W 6000 series engines rather than the 717.

User currently offlineAspen1 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 267 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1540 times:

Aspen can not handle a 737 let alone an airbus 320 or 319.

User currently offlineJohnFKelly From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1512 times:

I too was wondering...wouldn't 717s be in violation of scope at UA Express??

User currently offlineTupolev154B2 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1332 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1498 times:

Nope, they don't need it. Aspen can simply have more RJ flights instead of mainline ones.

User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1492 times:
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UA already has Airbus A319's which seat roughly the number of passengers as a 717 so it is quite unlikely but who knows!!


In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineILUV767 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3141 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1471 times:

Aspen1:

My point is, that a 737 or an Airbus would not be used on a flight to Aspen where the yields are high...thus making it necessary to put the 146 on that flight.

The BAe146 jet is used on flights where a mainline plane could be used, but is not, becasue the mainline planes are being used on different routes that are usually longer. Also, the Bae146 is good for high yield markets where UA can not bring in a 737/A319 or do not want to bring those in.


User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1460 times:

The simple answer is: No, UA will not order the 717.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineILUV767 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3141 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1456 times:

Ok...a few more things...

United Airline: SEA-YVR is United Express...not mainline.

Next...lets look at all of the added costs of operating the 717.

First things:

You have a lot less cargo capacity on the 717 than you do on the 737 or the A319.

24,000 flight attendants will have to be trained on this plane.

None of the exits, seating layouts, or galleys would be common on this plane to any other Boeing or Airbus products.

Pilots:

How much do you pay them? More or less to the 737? What about training them? Their routes would compete with those that are operated by the 737...the Pilots Union would not like that. taking away lines from 737s to pilots making a lot less. ALPA wont like that!


Maintence:

Part support
Engine types
Mechanic Training
Inspector Training
New system to deal with...very diffucult

All together...the costs would be too high to make this plane economical. There is no way that United would order this plane. The day that they do...I'll go to work for Delta.


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1447 times:

It is EXTREMELY unlikely that they will get the 717. ESPECIALLY for there Express fleet. They have the BAe 146-300 which seats about the same, so why would they need the 717? The 717's range isn't important for Express service either.

IF they ever get a 100 seater, it will be the A318, since they have expressed SOME interest for it.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineILUV767 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3141 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1446 times:

BA...UA currently has no interest in the A318...just getting more A319s and A320s.

User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1439 times:

Oh yes they do. They have expressed lots of interest for the A318. No orders yet, but they are indeed interested in this little plane.


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1434 times:

After Airbus launched the A318, they offered to United (and several other airlines), great deals on the A318. Although United declined there offer, they stated that they liked the A318 and ARE interested in it, and may consider there offer in the future.


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9216 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1440 times:

BA...UA currently has no interest in the A318...just geting more A319s and A320s.

Actually they do. They are looking into it as a possible replacement for the B 737-200 in five years time. But I personally think that it is not very likely as they can simply order more A 319/320.


They have expressed lots of interest for the A318

I wouldn't say 'a lot'. They just looking into it but I don't think it is on the top priority.

No orders yet so far.

 Smile


User currently offlineILUV767 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3141 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1437 times:

BA...

Prove it!

There is not a lot of need for this plane. There will still be 737s, and they will be here for a while. The 105 seat market at United has already been taken care of. THERE IS NO NEED FOR THE A318!

Also...it is a little heavy thing, and a double shorten. It would be better to operate the A319 as the capacity difference is not that large.

Also...the markets that UA sends planes with 100 seats could be replaced by CRJs with more frequency.


User currently offlineILUV767 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3141 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1431 times:

United Airline...those 732 routes will go to regionals or 737s as more A319s become avalible.

User currently offlineILUV767 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3141 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1422 times:

United Airline:

For the record...United is interested in a lot of things...I'm sure they've looked at the A318, they have also looked at the A330 and belive it or not the 737-700! I have my proof on that. Does that mean that they will order them? No!


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9216 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1419 times:

The B 737s WILL DEFINITELY be around for AT LEAST 20 years more.

ILUV767, you are right. They did look into the A 330 as well as the B 737-700. And of course, there is no way they will order the A 330. Although they ordered one for Air Canada.  Smile

B 737-700? Oh well.....

Well, for B 737NGs, I STILL wouldn't rule out the possibilities. Although this will not happen anytime soon.

 Smile


User currently offlineHawaiian717 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3216 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1415 times:

I don't consider UA a likely candidate for a 717 order. If they were to do it however, I would guess it would be used to replace 737s on United Shuttle and Metrojet (if the UA/US merger goes through) routes.

David


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1406 times:

ILUV767,
Tell United this phrase you said: "THERE IS NO NEED FOR THE A318!"

Don't tell me that, I don't decide the aircraft for United, and what they are interested in.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
25 ILUV767 : Ok...then how do you know that they are interested?
26 Early Air : UAL will never get the 717. Rgds, Early Air
27 Imkeww : ILUV767-- Air Wisconsin is not owned by United, although it once was. It is presently owned by CJT Holdings, a private organization. Re: A318s @ UA Be
28 ILUV767 : Hass... give me a call. I need to talk to you about that. -David
29 Jmc1975 : I honestly believe its safe to say that if anything of that size will be ordered, the A318 is by far a more like candidate than the 717 or 737NG. It j
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