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LAS-25L Closure Nov1-May1  
User currently offlineFastEddie07 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 243 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 7007 times:

Couldn't find this anywhere, as some of you already know they will be closing 25 L at mccarran for awhile. Looks like they will still be using 25R for departures on normal days so the viewing area will be usuable. Heres a link:

http://web.nbaa.org/public/ops/airsp...ces/zla/20080904lasrnwycnstrcn.php


Eddie

99 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN747PE From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 100 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6983 times:

Fedex and the Airport authority have told us West Air, Fedex feeder, to expect 1 to 3 hr delays. It will be interesting. I will try to keep everyone updated.

User currently offlineFastEddie07 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6972 times:

Wow, thanks. I heard they expect up to 1 hr delays for normal ops.

User currently offlineChrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1999 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6945 times:

Oh just fantastic. I have a few trips thru LAS in the next few weeks.

User currently offlineFastEddie07 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6941 times:

They've done it before with bad weather landing on 19 and leaving 25R, hope for the best for ya.

User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4630 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6865 times:

We did a full reconstruction of ATL's 8R-26L in 60 days, 6 months seems like an awefully long time.


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6660 times:

With 07R/25L closed, they expect the normal runway configuration to be arrivals on 01L/01R and departures off 07L and will do this with up to 10 knots of tailwind. If winds don't permit this, they'll use 19L/19R for arrivals and shoot 25R departures out in-between arrivals. The western 1,200 feet or so of 25R won't be usuable, but with the cooler temps this time of year should negate any takeoff weight issues.

ATC delays will be more likely during peak periods, and should any kind of weather (cloud decks or precip) come in that takes out the ability to conduct visual approaches, the delays will spike upward..


User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4123 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6647 times:

This will be very interesting. I am going out to LAS next week, and it will likely be the first
time I have ever taken off anything but 25R. Landing on the 1's will be interesting too.


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6623 times:



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 5):
We did a full reconstruction of ATL's 8R-26L in 60 days, 6 months seems like an awefully long time.

Not as many people to bribe here in Atlanta...  duck 

Actually, it's hard to properly compare the projects because the runway in question @ LAS is asphalt, while all of the runways @ ATL are concrete. With both of the runway renewal projects at ATL (this recent one and the one back in 1999), they were cutting the runway into pieces and trucking those pieces to another part of the property. Right behind the removal crew was the crew laying rebar and behind them, the crews pouring the concrete. For the renewal project @ LAS, tearing up asphalt is not as simple as with concrete. In addition, you have to do asphalt in layers, so it takes a bit longer. We're talking about a nearly two mile long runway that is 150 wide (The equivalent of a 12 lane interstate highway) that is will be thicker than the amount of asphalt laid for an interstate highway.


User currently offlineSirOmega From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6596 times:

Is the replacement runway going to be concrete or asphalt?

User currently offlineCrownvic From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1793 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6526 times:

SirOmega..When 1/19 L & R were replaced, they went with concrete. They have been erecting a lot of processing rigs all along 25L for the past few weeks, so my guess is they are going with concrete.

User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12321 posts, RR: 35
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6470 times:

Interesting info from the FAA ... just wondering why there isn't a configuration 5, but there is a Configuration 6!

Incidentally,where exactly is the viewing area at LAS?


User currently offlineSirOmega From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6465 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 11):

Incidentally,where exactly is the viewing area at LAS?

Just south of the runway they're closing, on Sunset Road.


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6432 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 11):
Interesting info from the FAA ... just wondering why there isn't a configuration 5, but there is a Configuration 6!

Perhaps whoever wrote up the document is a Monty Python fan, as it reminded me of the "Bruces" sketch when the rules are being read. "Rule 6. There is NO Rule 6."

Quoting Crownvic (Reply 10):
SirOmega..When 1/19 L & R were replaced, they went with concrete. They have been erecting a lot of processing rigs all along 25L for the past few weeks, so my guess is they are going with concrete.

That's a helluva lot of concrete. Good thing several of the casino projects are on hold or else there could be a shortage....

Switching to concrete is a good idea, especially somewhere like LAS. Places like that give a whole new meaning to the term "hotter than Georgia asphalt". But if they are switching, it still makes the long time frame seem odd. But I guess since they've got to completely strip the runway to dirt it will take longer.


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6300 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 11):
Interesting info from the FAA ... just wondering why there isn't a configuration 5, but there is a Configuration 6!

I wondered about that myself... Maybe Config-5 is for all the stealth traffic out of Area 51...  Wink

Anything other than Config-2 (01L/R arrivals, 07L depts.) will be a 32 AAR with GDPs averaging 80 minute delays. Exception is arv/dept on 07L which is a 28 AAR, so delays worsen..


User currently offlineSirOmega From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6285 times:



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 14):
Anything other than Config-2 (01L/R arrivals, 07L depts.) will be a 32 AAR with GDPs averaging 80 minute delays. Exception is arv/dept on 07L which is a 28 AAR, so delays worsen..

What is LAS under normal circumstances?

I suppose one of the benefits to US dehubbing LAS is that we have less flights right now while this is going on.


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6269 times:



Quoting SirOmega (Reply 15):
What is LAS under normal circumstances?

LAS is normally a 60 AAR landing on 25L/19R and departing 25R or 19L...

http://www.fly.faa.gov/Information/west/zla/las/las_aar.htm


User currently offlineLASOctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6224 times:

Speaking of viewing parks, are they making another one? I really hope so.. And would someone explain to me where weight and heat go into play for takeoff? And what do you guys mean by "Configuration 6" and whatnot? Thanks..


[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
User currently onlineKLASM83 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 617 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6212 times:



Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 17):
weight and heat go into play for takeoff?

To sum it up: more weight more stuff to move thus more thrust, speed etc needed to accelerate the mass to the appropriate speed for liftoff. More heat, the less dense the air is, so the plane thinks its higher. A plane that is heavy in the hot needs either more thrust (note likey) or more space to take off. Thus KLAS, KDEN, etc's long runways. I do hope I in some way answered the question, and to everyone else, hope I got at least somewhere in the vicinity of explaining lift. If only I had my "Aerodynamics of Naval Aviators" book handy....  mischievous 

Have A Nice Day



Don't you want to hang out and waste your life with us?
User currently offlineSirOmega From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6185 times:



Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 17):
And what do you guys mean by "Configuration 6" and whatnot?

The configurations mentioned are in reference to the link in the first post in the thread. Configuration 2 being the preferred one since it allows for the highest rate of arrivals and departures.


User currently offlineLASOctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6150 times:



Quoting SirOmega (Reply 19):
The configurations mentioned are in reference to the link in the first post in the thread. Configuration 2 being the preferred one since it allows for the highest rate of arrivals and departures.

Oh. I knew what that was, I was just calling it by a different name.. Yes, I'm a little slow..  Wink
Thank you..!

Quoting KLASM83 (Reply 18):

And, thank you! Now, I have to go understand that more so I know. I just have to beat it into my brain so it'll make more sense..



[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4123 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5975 times:

Ok, today is the first day of the Closure. I was playing Disc Golf at Sunset Park this morning and you could see all the planes taking off from runway 7L. Definitely something different. It is also weird seeing Runway 1L and R arrivals.

On a side note, based on the type of equipment I have seen next to Runway 25L, it does look like they are going with Concrete. Now if only BOS would learn from this.


User currently offlinePilotfox From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 548 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5950 times:

I flew out of there last night and noticed a huge area of concrete just east of the air cargo area. It was well lit and fenced off along Twy C. It looks as if it was for aircraft as Twy R leads into it, but its blocked by fence.

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5943 times:



Quoting Apodino (Reply 21):
Ok, today is the first day of the Closure.

Not bad for a first day--good weather and a lower demand being a Saturday...

Sunday and Monday will probably be worse, depending on how much wind/ceilings/precip the next weather system approaching will bring with it.


User currently offlineSurferX From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5865 times:
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Considering there's supposed to be wind and rain tomorrow, it should be pretty interesting...

25 Apodino : And I am supposed to fly out tommorrow. I think I will stick to my plan of Redeyeing somewhere tommorrow night, then double connect to Appleton. Side
26 LASOctoberB6 : What's your weather source? Because of this configuration, I was able to see Obama's plane fly over the rally at the high school. Well, at a better v
27 SirOmega : The preferred one with departures on 7L, arrivals 1s. Hopefully my flight on WN to PDX on the 21st doesn't have problems. It did sprinkle a little at
28 Crownvic : Folks, this pattern is not that unusual. In fact, during the Winter months when northerly winds are common, operations on 1L/1R with departures on 7L
29 OPNLguy : I'll be sure to keep that in mind when they're at a 28 rate and in a GDP with 60+ minute EDCTs...
30 LASOctoberB6 : Yea, I saw those dark and heavy lookin' clouds up in the northwest/west.. We didn't get squat.. Cloud insurance, anyone? Okay, now that, I did not un
31 SirOmega : GDP = Ground delay program (your aircraft is held on the ground at the originating airport) EDCT = Expect Departure Clearance Time (how long until yo
32 LASOctoberB6 : Thank you!
33 OPNLguy : 32 rate GDP, max delays 124 minutes (2 hrs 4 mins), average delays 78 mins (1 hour 18 mins). ATCSCC Advisory ATCSCC ADVZY 019 LAS/ZLA 11/02/2008 CDM
34 Goldenshield : And both LAS and PHX folk wonder why people make fun of them with the "1 cloud + 2 airplanes = 3 hour delay" joke.
35 Srbmod : Looking at those numbers make me want to shift my booking to LAS in a couple of weeks to an earlier flight. But it's not really worth the $100, as I
36 Goldenshield : No unusual departure delays are noted.
37 OPNLguy : While it certainly seems that way at times, the normally high AAR at these two airports is especially dependent on the ability to shoot visual approa
38 Goldenshield : I know, I know. I just figured it was a good time to throw out some sarcastic joke.
39 OPNLguy : There will probably be some relatively minor ones intermittently during the most of the day, but will increase during spikes in the arrival traffic s
40 OPNLguy : I know that you know--I just wanted to make sure any non-dispatcher reading your comment didn't take your joke as reality...
41 Silver1SWA : Ugh, this is going to be a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG winter.
42 OPNLguy : You're telling me... Now up to a 36 rate for 4 hours and then a 45 rate; max delays 396 mins (6 hrs 36 mins) and average delays 88 mins (1 hr 28 mins
43 William : I am flying to LAS tomorrow should I expect delays? I heard todays delays were made worse by a strong crosswind
44 OPNLguy : Depends upon what combinations of runways they're using. Once airborne you should be OK, but there may be a delay getting off the ground...
45 Typhaerion : I want to thank everyone for ther information... I am currently sitting on the ground in LAS waiting for my 18:55L to TUL on SWA1065 to depart at 20:2
46 Post contains images OPNLguy : If I could wave my magic wand to up the rate there and eliminate the delays I'd certainly do so...   They are up to a 44 rate, but the max/average d
47 Typhaerion : Your losing "wide-eyed-magical-skills admiration points" then. Our estimates are still holding strong, and the number of people coming in is lessening
48 OPNLguy : Well, there's only so much I can do from the house... Hang in there....and thanks for flying us....
49 FastEddie07 : Did some spotting today at LAS, Not the same feel with 25L being closed. Got some shots from a lot off tropicana but it was almost right under the pat
50 Apodino : I was playing disc golf over at sunset park today right across from 25L, and the wind was blowing so hard the course was almost unplayable. It wasn't
51 DeltAirlines : Hopefully I won't run into any problems in a few weeks (I think LAS is three trips out for me, but I can't really keep track this month, too much trav
52 JayDub : What gets me is the fact that they've chosen to go with a full GDP rather than a GAAP. Screw the airlines, let's get the truly important people taken
53 Chrisair : Sorry to take this off topic slightly, but what the heck is disc golf?
54 Post contains links Goldenshield : It's the new sports craze. Disc golf (also called Frisbee Golf) is a disc game in which individual players throw a flying disc into a basket or at a
55 Typhaerion : Awww heck OPNL... I fly you guys cause it is the best airborne coach experience domestically in the states. Coupled with your fares, which are usuall
56 OPNLguy : Actually, you can write directly to the Executive Office because they handle commendations--Southwest Airlines Executive Office, PO Box 36611, Dallas
57 Apodino : I will say this much. Taking of from 7L last night just didn't feel right.
58 Typhaerion : What a great idea. Though, the flip side of this is that it will also encourage more hate mail. Sigh. Yeah, I meant this globally in terms of booking
59 Apodino : That is the understatement of the year. I have never seen an airport terminal as packed as the C concourse in LAS was yesterday and last night. I eve
60 OPNLguy : The seem to be doing better today. They came off config-2 a couple of hours ago and have been able to avoid a GDP so far..
61 LASOctoberB6 : Could you list all the configurations and their details? I should really consider studying my FAR/AIM book...
62 Apodino : The link provided by the OP has all the current configs, with their arrival rates.
63 LASOctoberB6 : Oh my.. I really didn't see that.. Thanks for pointing that out..
64 DeltAirlines : I've gotten used to using 7L for departures - I've used it 3-4 times this year so far. Was weird the first time, but I got used to it. Concourse D is
65 Apodino : Concourse A and B are less spacious than D, but more spacious than C.
66 SirOmega : Plus I dont think C was ever designed to be a hub like WN uses it for. Back in the day before D, I can remember that was where all the "high end" air
67 Typhaerion : No offense to the WN crowd, but there arent many terminals in the US deisgned to be cattle corrals that WN uses them for. The terminal is just not se
68 Silver1SWA : WN's gate utilization and flight frequency no doubt causes some back ups in the gate area when things aren't running smoothly. When things go bad and
69 Typhaerion : As fun as that may be, I think I might pass. It is even bad in normal ops at some placed like IND (the old terminal) where you could have 2 CO flight
70 Apodino : Before D opened, AA and UA were in the far end of C, closest to 25R. DL, NW, US, AS, and TW in the day were in A, and of course HP had B to themselve
71 OPNLguy : Since this process started on Nov 1st, it appears the worst days are on Fridays and Sundays, since the traffic demand is a little harder to predict du
72 Hiflyer : ATCSCC ADVZY 056 LAS/ZLA 11/07/2008 CDM GROUND DELAY PROGRAM CTL ELEMENT: LAS ELEMENT TYPE: APT ADL TIME: 2342Z DELAY ASSIGNMENT MODE: DAS ARRIVALS ES
73 Texasdoc : Thanks for the information. This must be making you guys at Southwest break a sweat!
74 Apodino : 90 Minute delays on Config 2. Wow. Thank God LAS wasn't on any other config today. Could have easily become three hours. Imagine if US hadn't downsize
75 OPNLguy : Not as bad as you might think. The ground delay program (where the XYZ-LAS flights are held on the ground at XYZ, wherever that happens to be) serves
76 LASOctoberB6 : Do you know the "normal" configurations McCarran uses, if any? Is there a list like the one in the link in the thread starter?
77 Apodino : Its pretty much the same as the link in the Thread Starter. Config 1 is normally Land 25L and 19R and depart 19L and 25R. Otherwise, not really much
78 Post contains links OPNLguy : Like this one? http://www.fly.faa.gov/Information/west/zla/las/las_aar.htm
79 LASOctoberB6 : Thank you! I just need to decipher all those acronyms I've never seen/heard of before..
80 OPNLguy : AAR- airport acceptance rate VMC- (2000/3) Visual met. conditions, in this case, a 2,000' cloud ceiling and 3 miles (or better LOW VMC- conditions not
81 OPNLguy : Today, 11/8, delays should be minimal due to the low demand of Saturday schedules...
82 SirOmega : I meant to ask you OPNLguy, as a general rule, when a flight is in a GDP, do they have to put the people on the plane and push back or can they keep p
83 LASOctoberB6 : I was out there pretty much all day, and it went swell. I was sitting at the west end of the Sports Park and boy, there were some low ones.. Especial
84 William : The "grandpa" approach from the north along the strip at night is an awesome sight.
85 OPNLguy : Folks usually don't like sitting on the aircraft and usually boarding is delayed until (as you say) about 30-45 minutes before the given EDCT ("wheel
86 NIKV69 : IFP totally redid their runway in about 2 months. Sounds like a milk job. I doubt it. Hmm I can imagine, I am almost there! Not happy about the delay
87 Post contains links DingDong : Incidentally, for those here unfamiliar with ARTCC names, the list is: http://www.fly.faa.gov/Products/Glos...ry_of_Terms/glossary_of_terms.html ZAB
88 OPNLguy : Sunday 11/9 looks to be setting up for another day of delays. Winds should start off strongly out of the SW (which wipes out the optimum config-2 land
89 LASOctoberB6 : I nearly messed up in my video because it was so low and loud! I'm not used to the SXM type landing views.. Knowing Las Vegas, the clouds will probab
90 Goldenshield : Here's the plan for today: EFFECTIVE: 090400 UNTIL 100359 WEATHER FORECAST: KLAS 082330Z 0900/0924 VRB05KT P6SM BKN250 FM090800 22012KT P6SM SCT150 BK
91 OPNLguy : It just got worse... Average delays 139 minutes (2:19), max delays 242 minutes (4:02)... ATCSCC ADVZY 026 LAS/ZLA 11/09/2008 CDM GROUND DELAY PROGRAM
92 NIKV69 : Looking forward to that!
93 SirOmega : Yea a friend of mine txted me from the RNO tarmac, they're stuck there for a while. At least he has his laptop.
94 OPNLguy : Winds now favoring Config-2 and the optimum 44 rate, so delays should decrease. If the winds swing back to the SW later, the rate will go back down to
95 Post contains links SirOmega : CC DOA had a press conference about the shutdown today, KLAS has an article and video - http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=9351534&nav=menu
96 OPNLguy : They added a new configuration on Nov. 14th, and it boosts the optimum arrival rate from 44 to 54, so it's helping to minimize the delays off close-in
97 Srbmod : And it only took them this long to finally put a mention of it on the LAS website. I guess hyping an award the airport received several years ago was
98 SirOmega : That must be where they're getting the 10% AAR decrease from in the article. 01R takeoff? Seems weird, I don't think I've ever done that before. That
99 OPNLguy : I had LAS long-hauls to the foggy east coast this evening and the only weight problem I had was based on landing weight at the destination. Takeoff o
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