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Attn LHR Spotters - CO 757's At LHR!  
User currently offlineLHR777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8801 times:

Continental Airlines started their winter schedule today -

CO are operating 2 x daily 757's to EWR from LHR. The first of these arrived this evening, as CO18, operated by N14106, named 'Sam E. Ashmore'.

Tomorrows arrivals are :-
CO110, operated by N12109, STA 0925, ETA 1000
CO18, operated by N14115, STA 2120

Tomorrows Departures:-
CO111, operated by N12109, STD 1135
CO19, operated by N14106, STD 1440

Yes, they're only 757's, but they are a new type for CO at LHR, and winglet-equipped too!

67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8561 posts, RR: 54
Reply 1, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8800 times:
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Whilst nice to see, it does suggest CO's loads are pretty poor if they are introducing the 757 on this 'premium' route.


111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineDualQual From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 776 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8762 times:



Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 1):

Winner. How much did we pay for those slots? Shutting down LGW is proving to be a brilliant move.


User currently offlineCM767 From Panama, joined Dec 2004, 655 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8746 times:



Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 1):
Whilst nice to see, it does suggest CO's loads are pretty poor if they are introducing the 757 on this 'premium' route.

I guess that this is how the fututre will be on international travel, and not only for CO.

Airlines should brace for one long year, if predictions on the economic dowturn become true. We also should not forget that travel been done now was book probably one or two months ago, I will expect that the drop on travel will be really evident on a couple of months.



But The Best Thing God Has Created Is A New Day
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3988 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8755 times:
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Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 1):

actually, by getting this third flight and introducing our schedule to a two 757 / one 777 we increase our premium cabin by 7 seats........and increase our economy cabin by 144.



okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineLHR777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8749 times:



Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 1):
Whilst nice to see, it does suggest CO's loads are pretty poor if they are introducing the 757 on this 'premium' route.

Does it? CO has 110% load factors this weekend, and around 103% for the rest of the week. The loads are good, and they have introduced a third flight to EWR - obviously the loads are not that bad. Also, IAH has been increased from 1x762 and 1x777 to 2x777 daily. All increases in seats, not reductions. Previously, a maximum of 918 seats operated ex-LHR, from tomorrow, it's 1205.

The problem CO has right now is the lack of spare widebodies. TXL needs a 762 for the winter to avoid fuel stops, so it had to come from somewhere.


User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8561 posts, RR: 54
Reply 6, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8732 times:
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Quoting CALMSP (Reply 4):
actually, by getting this third flight and introducing our schedule to a two 757 / one 777 we increase our premium cabin by 7 seats........and increase our economy cabin by 144.

- Sorry, did not realise a 777 was still flying the route in addition to 2 757 services.

Quoting LHR777 (Reply 5):
The problem CO has right now is the lack of spare widebodies. TXL needs a 762 for the winter to avoid fuel stops, so it had to come from somewhere.

- Whilst good for TXL pax, not good for LHR pax, given a choice most in the know will avoid a 757 on this route and book a widebody service with DL,AA,VS or BA - not a good marketing move IMHO.



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineLHR777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8712 times:



Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 6):
- Whilst good for TXL pax, not good for LHR pax, given a choice most in the know will avoid a 757 on this route and book a widebody service with DL,AA,VS or BA - not a good marketing move IMHO.

...whilst most Y class customers purchase travel based on price, not aircraft type, so they'll still fly CO 757's, and corporate customers, locked-in to negotiated rates with CO will still fly on the 757 services, regardless. The BusinessFirst service is identical to that on the 767 or 777, just the seat is different.

As CO don't currently offer flat beds, it's not such an issue. Also, CO 777's, 767-400's and 757-200's will all have proper 180-degree flat beds from next year.

The 762 does come back to LHR at the end of March, when the summer schedule kicks-in. 2x757's makes economic sense over the quieter winter months.


User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 8, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8694 times:



Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 6):
Whilst good for TXL pax, not good for LHR pax, given a choice most in the know will avoid a 757 on this route and book a widebody service with DL,AA,VS or BA - not a good marketing move IMHO.

Tell BA they must have OpenSkies wrong too then; who in their right mind would start up a transatlantic carrier from various European cities with :::deep breath::: narrowbodies on that basis...? The LHR customer is no more discerning or deserving than any other in Europe.  Yeah sure



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4124 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8648 times:



Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 8):
The LHR customer is no more discerning or deserving than any other in Europe.

Maybe not, but the LHR customer has a lot more choice to New York than anybody else. BA
744 or CO 752? Hardly a tough choice, for me at least.

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 4):
actually, by getting this third flight and introducing our schedule to a two 757 / one 777 we increase our premium cabin by 7 seats........and increase our economy cabin by 144.

To Heathrow, maybe, but to London as a whole it's a decrease.


User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8492 times:

CO has always been extremely wise when it comes to operating the "right size" aircraft for their route structure. On a route like EWR-LHR there are several options of carriers though. If the prices are all in the same ballpark, I'm taking a BA 747/777 over a CO 757 any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I don't know of AA/UA/DL operating narrowbodies into LHR so, it will be interesting to see how CO's 757s fair.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2436 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8314 times:



Quoting CX747 (Reply 12):
CO has always been extremely wise when it comes to operating the "right size" aircraft for their route structure. On a route like EWR-LHR there are several options of carriers though. If the prices are all in the same ballpark, I'm taking a BA 747/777 over a CO 757 any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I don't know of AA/UA/DL operating narrowbodies into LHR so, it will be interesting to see how CO's 757s fair.

Odds are they'll do better than most of us assume they would, given the fact that CO has been using the 757s to good effect in key markets such as LGW/CDG/AMS/MAN/DUB/SNN for quite some time, often with direct widebody competition on the same city pair.

The 2nd evening departure from EWR and its corresponding return from LHR will get a 767 for Summer 2009, leaving the AM EWR-LHR and late PM LHR-EWR return for the 757, which are generally the weakest-demand routes from Heathrow for any carrier, but essential for a complete portfolio of frequencies.

The 757 isn't optimal, but it's the best CO can do at the moment given the fact that the 787s are interminably delayed and the absence of any additional widebody capacity increases for the upcoming months. In light of this, as a business traveler, I'd prefer to have the choice of three EWR-LHR frequencies with one flight on a suboptimal a/c type than have my selection limited to one or two daily departures.

Any of us who have flown the 757 in BF on CO know that the product is more than adequate for the relatively short LHR segments, and the service is usually very good. It's not an unpleasant option by any stretch of the imagination, however segments longer in distance than to the British Isles have historically encountered endurance issues at certain times (no small matter).


User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8104 times:



Quoting LHR777 (Reply 7):
, just the seat is different.

And therein IMHO opinion is the main problem. The astute business traveller will want the same seat as on the widebody...wont he?


User currently offlineLHR777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8105 times:



Quoting CODC10 (Reply 14):
Any of us who have flown the 757 in BF on CO know that the product is more than adequate for the relatively short LHR segments, and the service is usually very good. It's not an unpleasant option by any stretch of the imagination, however segments longer in distance than to the British Isles have historically encountered endurance issues at certain times (no small matter).

...also not forgetting that the majority of CO 757's also have the outstanding widescreen seat-back AVOD, which currently does not feature on the 767 fleet.


User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 7523 times:

They spend all that money on LHR slots and they send a bloody 757 there.

No wonder airlines from the US are up the creek.


User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3988 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7372 times:
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Quoting RJ111 (Reply 18):

whats wrong iwth sending a 757 there??? It makes us money........isn't that the whole concept of a business???



okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7063 times:

What it highlights is the rather extreme strategy of throwing frequencies at everything, which is inherant throughout airlines in American. Which i guess if spawned through excessive competition. Perhaps they should bring back regulation.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days ago) and read 6996 times:



Quoting RJ111 (Reply 20):
What it highlights is the rather extreme strategy of throwing frequencies at everything, which is inherant throughout airlines in American. Which i guess if spawned through excessive competition. Perhaps they should bring back regulation.

What exactly is BA doing in the London-New York market other than throwing frequency at it?

And international flights were not regulated in that way. They were/are governed by agreements between two countries, who determine frequency and routes by treaty.

New York-London is barely longer than New York-West Coast, and the 757s are used all the time on those routes. With AVOD throughout the plane (in the whole 757 fleet within weeks) and a comfortable (if not flat) J seat, the 757 CO uses works for them. And they are going to begin installing a new J product on these planes.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineFreckles From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2007, 386 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days ago) and read 6880 times:

Saw a CO 757 with winglets landing last night just after we landed on TF-FIX at about 9PM last night.

Looked nice!!


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6161 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days ago) and read 6840 times:

If CO has taught us anything, it's that the know how to use the 757 across the pond. Also, its so quickly forgotten this is a seasonal change in a very slow world economy. It may be more financially responsible to do this, whether its LHR or not.

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 10):

For the record I'd take a CO 757 any day over a BA 747

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days ago) and read 6821 times:

BA have a lot of frequency, but they also operate some pretty big aircraft on the route. I believe the smallest is a daily 763 to EWR. Last time i checked they had 4-5 daily 747s to JFK and 2-3 777s. Aircraft which offer much better CASM than a 757.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 21):
And international flights were not regulated in that way. They were/are governed by agreements between two countries, who determine frequency and routes by treaty.

I did necessarily not insinuate that this LON-NYC should be regulated, but domestic routes where the same phenomena arises.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 21):
New York-London is barely longer than New York-West Coast, and the 757s are used all the time on those routes.

Why of course, i am arguing this is a US trend, and that supports it.


User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2209 posts, RR: 35
Reply 21, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days ago) and read 6691 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 21):
New York-London is barely longer than New York-West Coast, and the 757s are used all the time on those routes

Barely?

EWR-LHR is 3465 miles.
EWR-SFO is 2565 miles.
EWR-LAX is 2454 miles.

900-1011 miles is not barely longer by any means. If you want to compare similar lengths take SNN-BOS and BOS-SFO which are within 200 miles of each other.


User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3988 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (5 years 12 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6617 times:
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you gotta look at the flight times..............flight 110........EWR-LHR is listed as 7 hours.....flight 1881, EWR-SEA is listed as 6:19.........so you are looking at 40 minutes..pretty comparable to me. And generally, you always arrive into london way early.


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineBrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4302 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (5 years 12 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6546 times:



Quoting LHR777 (Reply 5):
Does it? CO has 110% load factors this weekend, and around 103% for the rest of the week. The loads are good, and they have introduced a third flight to EWR - obviously the loads are not that bad. Also, IAH has been increased from 1x762 and 1x777 to 2x777 daily

How does this work? 110% load factor. 103% loads. What?! I know that my math skills are not up to snuff but I still think that you can only have 100% as full capacity. This is not making sense.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (5 years 12 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6497 times:

I still fail to see what all this excitement is about. CO 757s in LHR. Big deal.

On a related note, though, US carriers like CO have fought for years and years to get into LHR, they finally do, and 757 is the best they can do? That's an embarassment. Their competitors on the LHR-EWR/JFK routes all fly larger and more comfortable aircraft. Since their 762s seat virtually the same amount of pax as the 757s, they should at least have kept widebody comfort on such an important route. 757s will not win them any good will when pax can still fly on far superior planes on another carrier.


25 BlatantEcho : You are comparing flights going into the jetstream and with it to produce some conclusion about the distance flown? Come on. He is talking about book
26 Tommy767 : I agree. Sorry CO, this isn't SNN or GLA. Step up your game in LHR. BA seems to have no problem flying 777s or 763s to EWR. These slots are rather va
27 LACA773 : mm Compared to the rest, CO has done a phenomenal job with the retrofitting and remodling of their 752s. I had a chance to fly on one on the 15th of
28 ScottishLaddie : Every CO flight out of LHR today was overbooked, he was referring to actual seats sold. By my reckoning they just have, 1 B762 has become 2 B752s, an
29 Panam330 : CO it is. Hardly a tough choice for me, either. Esepcially given that CO has IFE that is 10x better than BA, and you still have two people next to yo
30 BrianDromey : The CO 762 actually seats 1 less passenger than their 757s, however the premium cabin on the 762 is substantially larger. It seems that the 767s are
31 Planesarecool : No, 1x 762 and 2x 752s have become 2x 752s. Gatwick is a London airport as well. As long as you like to spend 7 hours strapped to your seat. For thos
32 ManchesterMAN : Agree. I would take a CO 757 any day over a BA widebody. I generally travel as economically as possible when I am paying whilst still wanting to earn
33 Tommy767 : BA is higher quality than CO, bar none. Based on trip reports, CO's transatlantic meals are way less appetizing than BA's which are actually quality
34 Planesarecool : BA are installing AVOD across their long haul fleet anyway, so hardly a USP for CO. And Virgin Atlantic have had AVOD installed for the past 5 years.
35 ConcordeBoy : ...ah yes, particularly considering the vast record of government taking over private industry and providing higher efficiency at lower prices
36 ConcordeBoy : Right there with ya dude. ...if you can fill them. Which might not be the easiest thing to do, at sufficient yield, in a recession environment with n
37 CityofAthens : For what it's worth, if anyone wants my opinion - if the price differential is significant, I'd have no problem using CO's 757. The flight to EWR isn'
38 Viscount724 : A 9-abreast widebody also has more overhead bin space in proportion to the number of passengers than a 6-abreast narrowbody.
39 LHR777 : 110% load factor means that bookings for the day are at 110% of the capacity. For example, tomorrow CO offers 1205 seats ex-LHR. Bookings are at more
40 CALMSP : okay............lets cut 2 of our 3 EWR flights b/c some seem to disagree that we aren't allowed to fly a 757 in there. i will let network scheduling
41 LHR777 : You appear to have entirely missed the point of the thread, which was titled "Attn LHR Spotters - CO 757's at LHR" The point was to draw attention to
42 Tommy767 : You should! I'm always going to give CO crap about flying 757s from EWR to the bigger cities in Europe. There will always be many loyal defenders, as
43 Planesarecool : CO could have easily had the second LHR flight operate as a 767 (or even a 757 if need be), and then kept the third 757 flight operating from Gatwick
44 CALMSP : why? what is your reason as to why CO should not be flying the 757?
45 CODC10 : As ConcordeBoy notes, not if you can't fill them. With demand softening from the financial industry, BA is sure to take a hit with the 6+ 747s a day
46 Star_world : That's about as childish as it gets to be honest... and a sharp reminder that this is an airline enthusiast forum, rather than one for people who fly
47 Ikramerica : And look at the US stock market: down 30% and record volatility since our government announced their participation, intended of course to calm things
48 ConcordeBoy : ...too bad customers weren't willing to pay enough of a premium for that flexibility in order to overcome the costs of keeping LGW open for a single
49 CODC10 : I really don't know much about BA's 757 history across the Atlantic, I am curious though. Was JFK-GLA the first one? CO's first 757 transatlantic was
50 ConcordeBoy : Depends on how technical you want to be about it... BA was using 752s (still in Caledonian/Nationair colors) to N.America as far back as 1992.
51 Tommy767 : Look, you can call it childish but the fact of the matter is some people don't like flying 757s across the pond. This is an airline enthusiast forum,
52 CODC10 : Technically, you're wrong. By 2000, Continental was operating the 757 from EWR-BHX/GLA/LIS/DUB/SNN/BRU/AMS, plus CLE-LGW. All of these flights had be
53 TDubJFK : No, I haven't missed the point of the thread. I was adding my opinion re: the use of 757s on the LHR route as a side note, just as many before me in
54 Runway23 : So what? That's pretty much the situation for any flight throughout the network of any US airline these days. What is actually sold (what you describ
55 Brilondon : It is tough to keep up when people like you seem to think that everybody has the same knowledge as you do. Maybe you should impart some of your super
56 David_itl : If I've remember correctly, BA Regional had 3 767s and a 757 when they operated JFK to MAN, GLA and BHX plus the LAX-MAN in 1993. MAN was 99% always
57 Brilondon : What's wrong with that? Yu feel that just because it is LHR you have to receive special treatment? You feel that a different aircraft would make a hu
58 ConcordeBoy : both
59 CALMSP : I was hoping for your response to the question.........
60 Hywel : The only possible downside to CO flying 757's into LHR is that it causes idiots here to fight like little kids. This thread is hilarious!
61 LHR777 : What's to say that the move to LHR is a failure for CO? They're adding flights. They own their own slots. They're making good money in J class on bot
62 Planesarecool : How is it weird? I live 20 minutes from Gatwick, of course it's going to be my airport of choice. Good luck getting to the City quicker from Heathrow
63 Runway23 : Just because you are adding more flights doesn't mean it is profitable. There are a number of airlines in the past who thought that adding frequencie
64 Brilondon : I use to live in Bayswater and found quite the opposite. What security do I have to clear to arrive at LHR? It is just customs I needed to go through
65 Planesarecool : Yep, customs is what I meant. From which you need to take the tube to get to the City, which takes around 20 minutes in itself, requiring two differe
66 ConcordeBoy : I'd loveeee to see you corroborate that, particularly considering that at least two of said airlines had publicly announced that they didn't expect L
67 JBLUA320 : Why is Continental your only target? They certainly aren't the only ones doing it... and BA is doing it now, too, through Open Skies. The 757 is the
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