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Air France : B77W To HAV, PUJ, SDQ In May 2009.  
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7412 posts, RR: 57
Posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12159 times:

In 2009, Air France will continue to phase out its B747-400.
3 Freighters will be retired from service (FGISA, F-GUOB, F-GISF) while 5 B777F will be added.
2 B747-400 (F-GEXB & F-GITC) will also be retired from service in April/ May and replaced by B77W on the routes CDG-PUJ / SDQ / HAV

Air France is currently operating a fleet of 25 B772ER and 26 B773ER.

F-GZND & FGZNE, the 27th and 28th B77W will be delivered in January and March 2009.

F-GZNF & F-GZNG, the 29th & 30th B77W will delivered in April 2009. Those two will be in the "COI" configuration (14J / 36S / 422M) but unlike their 7 predecessors in this configuration based at ORY, they will be based at CDG to operate the flights to PUJ/SDQ/HAV.

AF has currently 3 different configuration for its B777 :

B772ER = 4P (1x2x1) / 49J (2x3x2) / 211Y (3x3x3)

B77W "International" = 8P (1x2x1) / 67J (2x3x2) / 250Y (3x4x3)

B77W "COI" : 14J (2x3x2) / 36S (3x3x3) / 422M (3x4x3)

They all have AVOD in the 3 classes (including M) and a new IFE system offering more than 400 hours of program is progressively installed (also in the A332 & A343) :
85 movies, available in up to 9 different languages.
Magazines, TV series (Heroes, Desperate housewives, etc ...), documentaries are available as well as a large program for kids.
17 games are proposed, along with a Berlitz program to learn the rudiments of a foreign language (French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian , etc ...)
24 Musical channels and videos, along with 200 CD of all kind of music are now also available.

Another 11 additional B77W are to be delivered to AF to replace the rest of the B744. They will be fitted with another (new) J/Y only configuration to replace the B744 on destinations such as MIA / CCS / GIG / SFO / BKK ...



38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12127 times:



Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
but unlike their 7 predecessors in this configuration based at ORY, they will be based at CDG to operate the flights to PUJ/SDQ/HAV.

Why do AF operates this flights out of CDG? I'd expect this route to be mainly O&D and at the most fed within France with very little feed from elsewhere.

Keeping just 2 COI's 77W at CDG gives little or no flexibility at all in case one of them goes mx.



744,742,741,772,773,762,732,735,738,752,727,717,DC10,DC9,M82,M87,319,320,321,343,346,L1011,CRJ2,CRJ9,E190,ATR42,DSH8,
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7412 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12078 times:



Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 1):
Why do AF operates this flights out of CDG? I'd expect this route to be mainly O&D and at the most fed within France with very little feed from elsewhere.

It is actually the opposite ! very few O/D demand on those flights, mosty European tourists / T.O (lots of Italians/Russians/Germans).

AF is one of the very few European Major to serve regularly PUJ/SDQ/HAV, most of the others are Charters.


User currently offlineMIgAiR54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1736 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12044 times:



Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 1):
I'd expect this route to be mainly O&D and at the most fed within France with very little feed from elsewhere.

I had flown HAV-CDG several times in the last 2 years and many pax were connecting with other flights and almost always full, like all the HAV-Europe flights.

O&D paxs fly mostly in charter airlines like Corsair, Blue Panorama, Livingstone, Air Pullmantur.............


User currently offlineUPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11980 times:



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 2):
It is actually the opposite ! very few O/D demand on those flights, mosty European tourists / T.O (lots of Italians/Russians/Germans).

I thought majority of european tourists going to DR and Cuba flew charters from their country of origin as part of their vacation packages as taking a regular flight makes vacations much more expensive.



744,742,741,772,773,762,732,735,738,752,727,717,DC10,DC9,M82,M87,319,320,321,343,346,L1011,CRJ2,CRJ9,E190,ATR42,DSH8,
User currently offlineTGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 874 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11844 times:



Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
Another 11 additional B77W are to be delivered to AF to replace the rest of the B744. They will be fitted with another (new) J/Y only configuration to replace the B744 on destinations such as MIA / CCS / GIG / SFO / BKK ...

Bonjour Pierre,

Can you tell us more regarding this new config ?
Will it still be with 3-4-3 in Y (for me it is a definite "not flying such config") ?

And do you have an update on the Y+ ? Still planned ?

At least I am trying to enjoy the 744 as long as it is possible: back from HKG to Paris (KL 744) next week, then SGN in November (AF744), and CCS for New year (AF744).

I have still been able to avoid most of the time the 777  relieved 



Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans. (AF/KL for example)
User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4695 posts, RR: 42
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11814 times:



Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 4):
I thought majority of european tourists going to DR and Cuba flew charters from their country of origin as part of their vacation packages as taking a regular flight makes vacations much more expensive.

Definitely not in terms of German travellers and travel to Cuba. There are very limited nonstop flights from Germany to Cuba, so a lot of tour operators actually offer flights on AF or IB as part of their packages.



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2684 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11788 times:



Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
B772ER = 4P (1x2x1) / 49J (2x3x2) / 211Y (3x3x3)

hi!
will the 772 keep their 3*3*3 config in Y or are they getting the new 3*4*3 config?



אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11750 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
B772ER = 4P (1x2x1) / 49J (2x3x2) / 211Y (3x3x3)

B77W "International" = 8P (1x2x1) / 67J (2x3x2) / 250Y (3x4x3)

B77W "COI" : 14J (2x3x2) / 36S (3x3x3) / 422M (3x4x3)

Seems that the destinations served by B744 with 40C will be the last ones to be replaced. Good that we may see AF 744 for at least 1 more year  Smile



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7412 posts, RR: 57
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11709 times:



Quoting TGV (Reply 5):
Can you tell us more regarding this new config ?
Will it still be with 3-4-3 in Y

Yes. All the B77W have and will have a 3x4x3 config in Y.

Quoting TGV (Reply 5):
And do you have an update on the Y+ ? Still planned ?

Still planned and confirmed. Will have 3x3x3 config in the B777 and larger pitch (similar to the "Alizée Class" with 38")

Quoting LY777 (Reply 7):
will the 772 keep their 3*3*3 config in Y or are they getting the new 3*4*3 config?

When the new Y+ class will be fitted in the B772ER, the "regular" Y Class will be also retrofitted in a 3x4x3 config.


User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27005 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11662 times:



Quoting MIgAiR54 (Reply 3):
I had flown HAV-CDG several times in the last 2 years and many pax were connecting with other flights and almost always full, like all the HAV-Europe flights.

78% of Irish traffic to Cuba fly AF Via CDG. There is a huge amount of connecting traffic. Great to see AF getting rid of the 744 off the HAV route. It badly needs upgrading.


User currently offlineGoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1846 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 11527 times:

what about MRU? When will they get COI B773 service in replacement of the current 744?

User currently offlineDlphoenix From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10653 times:



Quoting Oa260 (Reply 10):
78% of Irish traffic to Cuba fly AF Via CDG. There is a huge amount of connecting traffic. Great to see AF getting rid of the 744 off the HAV route. It badly needs upgrading.

Why do you consider narrower seats with less leg room an upgrade? For the vast majority of the passengers on those routes this will be a downgrade in service.

DLP


User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27005 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10643 times:



Quoting Dlphoenix (Reply 13):
For the vast majority of the passengers on those routes this will be a downgrade in service.

It certainly would not. Having done the route a few times myself and also talking to friends and collegues who have also done the route the 777 would be an upgrade.


User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25357 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10584 times:



Quoting Oa260 (Reply 14):
Quoting Dlphoenix (Reply 13):
For the vast majority of the passengers on those routes this will be a downgrade in service.

It certainly would not. Having done the route a few times myself and also talking to friends and collegues who have also done the route the 777 would be an upgrade.

Have you flown on a 10-abreast 777? It is definitely more cramped with narrower seats, aisles, armrests than a 10-abreast 747. I will go out of my way to avoid a 10-abreast 777.


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7412 posts, RR: 57
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10564 times:



Quoting Dlphoenix (Reply 13):
Why do you consider narrower seats with less leg room an upgrade? For the vast majority of the passengers on those routes this will be a downgrade in service.



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
Have you flown on a 10-abreast 777? It is definitely more cramped with narrower seats, aisles, armrests than a 10-abreast 747. I will go out of my way to avoid a 10-abreast 777.

Slightly narrower seats but higher pitch and a much better IFE system with AVOD and PTVs including in "M" Class, that's an upgrade for me.


User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27005 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10549 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
ave you flown on a 10-abreast 777?

Yes Indeed I have

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 16):
and a much better IFE system with AVOD and PTVs including in "M" Class, that's an upgrade for me.

 checkmark   checkmark 


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10549 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8):
Seems that the destinations served by B744 with 40C will be the last ones to be replaced. Good that we may see AF 744 for at least 1 more year

And in my opinion AF B747 has the best business class of the whole AF fleet because of the front nose little cabin (the same applies for KL B747).

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
Another 11 additional B77W are to be delivered to AF to replace the rest of the B744. They will be fitted with another (new) J/Y only configuration to replace the B744 on destinations such as MIA / CCS / GIG / SFO / BKK ...

Does this mean that yet another 4th configuration will be created by AF in its B77W? Could this mean we will see 2-class B77W "international" in order to fit the market profiles of destinations such as MIA and GIG?

Rgs,


User currently offlineTacoronte From United States of America, joined May 2008, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10411 times:

I hope AF add the 77W to MIA too, I flew CDG-MIA last year and was one of my worst flight ever, old 744, extremely uncomfortable and no PTVs. I think the 77W is definately an upgrade, new a/c's and the great AF IFE system.

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 7 hours ago) and read 9064 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 18):
Does this mean that yet another 4th configuration will be created by AF in its B77W? Could this mean we will see 2-class B77W "international" in order to fit the market profiles of destinations such as MIA and GIG?

They should create a 5th one, but i understand it's not interesting for just just one or two destinations. I'm sure GIG can handle a little F traffic with AF.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7412 posts, RR: 57
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 2 hours ago) and read 8891 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 21):
They should create a 5th one, but i understand it's not interesting for just just one or two destinations.

It is not just one or two destinations : several AF destinations don't justfy a F Class :
BOS, SFO, CCS, MIA, BKK/SGN/HAN, ATL, YYZ ...


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 2 hours ago) and read 8884 times:
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Quoting FlySSC (Reply 22):
It is not just one or two destinations : several AF destinations don't justfy a F Class :
BOS, SFO, CCS, MIA, BKK/SGN/HAN, ATL, YYZ ...

Yes, i'm aware but trying to say that some of them might handle F class. Like Rio where the 77W with F could be excessive, but the 772 at same time is too little for current Y demand.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 1 hour ago) and read 8833 times:



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 22):
It is not just one or two destinations : several AF destinations don't justfy a F Class :
BOS, SFO, CCS, MIA, BKK/SGN/HAN, ATL, YYZ

Correct, there are a number of destinations which demand AF 2-class configured B77W. In fact, there are more destinations which cannot handle first class than the other way around. AF 3-class product is very exclusive and just a list of selected routes handle this service. In terms of of South America I have my doubts about first class performance in SCL, while traditional first class markets such as GRU and EZE perform particularly well in this class/configuration.

Rgs,

[Edited 2008-10-28 14:22:01]

User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32793 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months ago) and read 8769 times:



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 22):
It is not just one or two destinations : several AF destinations don't justfy a F Class :
BOS, SFO, CCS, MIA, BKK/SGN/HAN, ATL, YYZ ...

It's just odd that AF is unable to support F to cities like Boston, Miami, and San Francisco that have plenty of F demand for the likes of American, British Airways, Lufthansa/Swiss, and/or United. LH group sends three daily F cabins to Boston and Miami with no problem.



a.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8811 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 25):
It's just odd that AF is unable to support F to cities like Boston, Miami, and San Francisco that have plenty of F demand for the likes of American, British Airways, Lufthansa/Swiss, and/or United. LH group sends three daily F cabins to Boston and Miami with no problem.

As per your comments, there's a "case" for AF think about a new 77W set up, with less F and C, but focused on markets like BOS, MIA, SFO and GIG. Something like 4F + 49 to 56C (similar to 772 but with more Y)



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
25 Viscount724 : But what is their F load factor on those flights, and are they all really paying the published F fares rather than various corporate discounts and up
26 MAH4546 : I can speak only for AA at MIA, but they have a large proportion of paid F to LHR. Though all these airlines except UA have the option of sending 2-c
27 YULWinterSkies : The 772 with 3-4-3 in Y will probably do fine. Are all the earliest 77W with 3-3-3 reconfigured already? I am assuming you do not fly Y... Lucky if y
28 The777Man : So GZND and GZNE will be delivered in a regular three class configuration like the others eg GZNC etc ? The777Man
29 FlySSC : Yes. All of them. Yes. 8P/67J/250Y. Once again, AF will add 5 B777F in 2009. ALL the B744 (including the Freighters) will all be gone by 2012.
30 Hardiwv : AA has a strong base in MIA and I am not surprised it supplies F seats to one of its key markets. I really do not think there is a case for AF flying
31 MAH4546 : Martinair is not a charter airline. Service to MIA is scheduled daily service just like everybody else. If MP wasn't in the Miami market, KL would ha
32 Hardiwv : But Martinair has a charter type of service. Anyway, everybody in Holland consider Martinair a charter airline...and it certainly cannot compare to K
33 The777Man : Any chance that we'll see the COI or the new two class configuration here at LAX for the flight to PPT ? The777Man
34 Hardiwv : Sorry, I meant DFW, as DTW has shown very good results so far. DFW and DTW are two new US destinations opened by KL in 2008. Rgs,
35 FlySSC : easy answer : 8P/67J/ 250 Y in a 3x4x3 config. 14J/36S/ 422 M in a 3x4x3 config.
36 LipeGIG : AF in the future, instead of using a 77W to MIA, can split and fly 2x daily, may be one with 772 and another one with A343. This way they may introdu
37 Hardiwv : Of course I did not mean the configuration of both aircraft was the same, as we know AF has more premium configuration as compared to KL, especially
38 TGV : Still planned and confirmed. Will have 3x3x3 config in the B777 and larger pitch (similar to the "Alizée Class" with 38") Thanks but 3x3x3 ??? Wasn'
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