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IAM And Boeing Reach Tentative Deal  
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5750 posts, RR: 47
Posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 11032 times:

Confirmed on IAM's website:

http://www.iam751.org/

Good news for both Boeing and it's workers if it's approved.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
176 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTwinotter4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10986 times:

This is good news. With all the problems with some of the outsourced companies on the production of this aircraft, I would imagine they are willing to do a few more things in house for the next project. Lets hope this is a fair settlement and that there will be better union/ company relations, however I am probably dreaming...

User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10977 times:

More like....good for the airlines waiting on those planes!!!

User currently offlineA10WARTHOG From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 324 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10925 times:

Appears to be a 4 year contract

User currently offline787atPAE From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 143 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10913 times:

I find it interesting this new contract will last for four years. This should about cover the remainder of the 787-X and the 747-8 programs. This contract will end before the next new airplane design, whether that is the 777NG or the 737RS. What will be telling, I guess, will be the SPEEA contract. How similar will the two contracts be, especially with outsourcing language?

User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10868 times:



Quoting 787atPAE (Reply 4):
How similar will the two contracts be, especially with outsourcing language?

Do you know something about what new contract says about outsourcing? The brief union statement does not even mention outsourcing?


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30898 posts, RR: 87
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10851 times:
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"Will provide job security for its members and limit the amount of work outside vendors can perform in the workplace."

Sounds like they came to an agreement on parts delivery in the factories, which was one of the major hangups.


User currently offline787atPAE From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 143 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10733 times:



Quoting 474218 (Reply 5):
Do you know something about what new contract says about outsourcing?

Not yet.  Smile Since outsourcing seemed to be the biggest hiccup of the seven thousand items that the union struck about, I'm assuming/hoping this was successfully negotiated. After all, in the IAM's online statement on their website, they are unanimously recommending that its members approve this deal. The next few days will be pretty interesting once we start getting word about the new contract language.

I've heard that at least in recent history, what the machinists got in their approved contract, the engineers got in theirs. I wonder if there will be any major differences in the two contracts.

I can't wait to see that factory starting to crank out planes again. It's been a long time already...


User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8872 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10706 times:

Well, I guess this certainly will cause some red faces on here about all the gloom and doom scenarios about the union being decertified. Good for Boeing and the union workers.


It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineC767P From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days ago) and read 10568 times:



Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 8):
Well, I guess this certainly will cause some red faces on here about all the gloom and doom scenarios about the union being decertified. Good for Boeing and the union workers.

Or maybe people are just happy a deal was reached and maybe there is a chance the 787 will fly before pigs do.

Both sides should be ashamed in my opinion, not getting a big pat on the back.


User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days ago) and read 10565 times:



Quoting 474218 (Reply 5):
Do you know something about what new contract says about outsourcing? The brief union statement does not even mention outsourcing?

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2008/q4/081027c_nr.html

Quote:
The company retained the flexibility necessary to manage its business, while making changes to the contract language to address the union's issues on job security, pay and benefits.

Sounds to me like Boeing may have 'won' that part of the battle, which would explain the union's silence.



I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21511 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 10529 times:



Quoting Twinotter4ever (Reply 1):
With all the problems with some of the outsourced companies on the production of this aircraft, I would imagine they are willing to do a few more things in house for the next project.

No offense intended, but the "in house" machinists have not been able to get even 1 787 together 100%, so the idea that outsourcing is the issue is really not backed up by facts. It was and is an overall failure of the management, the production plan, etc. and would have been just as delayed had 100% of the work been done in house. Probably moreso, since the composite experience in house is low.

And doing it all in house would only have added to costs, as most of the same flaws in the program would have still existed.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5435 posts, RR: 30
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 10468 times:

So what happens to the unfair labor practices action against Boeing?


What the...?
User currently offlinePar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7135 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10452 times:



Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 10):
Sounds to me like Boeing may have 'won' that part of the battle, which would explain the union's silence.

Problem is that they always had that, see the current B-787, past B-777, B-767 all had out-sourced work, Boeing always had that right and no one was trying to take that fundamental principle away from Boeing. The devil is in the details, and there has been much dis-information on the issue of out-sourcing, it's implementation, responsibility of workers on site, overview of deliveries, who's responsible for what and where and who can be held accounable, not sure we will ever get all the little bits that make up the whole issue.

Will be funny to see all the hard liners on both sides gritting their teeth and making nice in front of the camera, unfortunately this is going to be a long 4 years ahead, I hope customers place more emphasis on quality control, because my fear is that both Boeing and the Unions and the Workers - all three sides - will be spending these 4 years working on the next fight ahead which will distract from the job at hand.

Interesting times ahead.


User currently offlineOyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2732 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10350 times:



Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
Good news for both Boeing and it's workers if it's approved.

 checkmark  This is very good news indeed! I was relived when I got the press statement from Boeing. It may be too early to talk about, but if the workers start working again next week, how many airplanes was delayed due to this strike, and how many days does it take to ramp up production again? Will it be like clicking a switch, or are there many sequences that will take allot of time to speed up production? I guess there will be allot of overtime to cope with the surge in delivery?



Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offlineTeme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1508 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 10273 times:
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I do hope that this means the end to the IAM strike. And I hope we will see first 787 test flight before Q2 2009  Smile


Flying high and low
User currently offlineSkymiler From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 10206 times:



Quoting C767P (Reply 9):
Both sides should be ashamed in my opinion, not getting a big pat on the back.

As someone who, many years ago, was involved as a Teamster I can NOT agree more. Strikes have devastated more than one company, and in some cases industries and the cities that host them (Bethlehem, PA, Hamilton, Ont come to mind).
In my case, again many years ago, I became a Teamster when 2 goons showed up one evening, unannounced, at my house and informed me I was joining ..
There HAS to be a better way both for management and the workers (who, IMHO should have a choice as to whether or not to join a union) so that they can concentrate on one and only one thing -- THE CUSTOMER!!!



I love to fly, and it shows!
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 10130 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
No offense intended, but the "in house" machinists have not been able to get even 1 787 together 100%, so the idea that outsourcing is the issue is really not backed up by facts.

You mean except the fact that the suppliers did not deliver completed sections when they said they would?

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
It was and is an overall failure of the management, the production plan, etc. and would have been just as delayed had 100% of the work been done in house.

Possible, but unlikely. Boeing has made technical leaps of this magnitude before and has never suffered this much of a delay. It's probably not a coincidence that the dismal schedule failure coincided with a huge shift in work responsibility.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
Probably moreso, since the composite experience in house is low.

Um, no. Boeing invented most of the composite techniques used to build the 787, then taught them to the suppliers.

Tom.


User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10020 times:



Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 12):
So what happens to the unfair labor practices action against Boeing?

The way companies and unions play that game is if a contract is adapted, most grievances
go away.....like they weren't even there..
been there........done that.

safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineLY4XELD From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 857 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 9925 times:

I think we're all breathing a sigh of relief here that this strike may be over!

Now I'm just hoping SPEEA and the company come to this resolution before any engineers strike!



That's why we're here.
User currently offlineA10WARTHOG From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 324 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9811 times:

It is a 4 year contract

GWI over four years: 5%,3%,3%,4% for a total of over the life of the contract 15%

Lump sum payment:
1st year: 10% (of pervious years earning) or $5,000 whatever is greater
2nd year: $1,500
3rd year: $1,500

Penison:

$81 per year of service effective 1/1/09
$83 per year of service effective 1/1/12

Helathcare:
Reverts back to 2005 contract

Job security:

Letter of Understanding #2 – Updated protect nearly 2,200 facilities/maintenance employees

Revisions to Article 21.7 - Secured the ability to compete for work that moves from one Boeing facility to another Boeing facility.

Improved Letter of Understanding #37 with the following protections.
• Forklift Drivers, MPRF’s, Factory Consumables Handlers, Environmental Control Workers and Shipping/Distribution will not be laid off or removed from their job classification and grade as a result of Materials Delivery and Inventory Process. This revision expanded protection to 2,920 jobs for the life of the Agreement.

• Except for 787 final assembly, vendors are limited to delivering products to designated areas only. From there, bargaining unit employees take over

• Jointly work with the Company to improve material delivery process and ensure our members grow with the new technology and innovations.

• Parties will explore options for retraining or reassigning bargaining unit employees to equal level jobs when employees are impacted by process and technology changes.

http://www.iam751.org/

There is still nothing on the company website


User currently offlineFrmrCAPCADET From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1714 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9634 times:

Aboulafia, in his monthy newsletter, echoes the fear of many of us. He thinks it now forgone that no new plane will be assembled in Seattle area. He points out that an aircraft manufacturing center is the goal of many/most industrial areas, but just about never happens. He also points it that it is pretty easy to kill an aviation area. He is not an admirer of Boeing labor management.

The only long term hope for Seattle and the union would be long range negotiations conducted behind the scenes, with the goal of no strikes, more flexible work rules, job security ensuring primo wages and benefits for the existing hires.



Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21511 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9621 times:



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 17):
Um, no. Boeing invented most of the composite techniques used to build the 787, then taught them to the suppliers.

Um, no. This is false. Sorry.

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 17):
It's probably not a coincidence that the dismal schedule failure coincided with a huge shift in work responsibility.

Um, no. Schedules continued to slip even as the Seattle area workforce had the plane in hand. Couldn't get even 1 flight ready in now 16 months. And why? Because there are redesigns and management issues and production process problems, which would have hit no matter who was attaching thing 1 to thing 2.

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 17):
It's probably not a coincidence that the dismal schedule failure coincided with a huge shift in work responsibility.

And yet with those suppliers caught up and actually slowing down/shuttering their lines due to the delay, the planes are still not finished in Seattle. And no, it's not all IAM's fault, never meant to say it was. Only they are not doing this rescue the program task all that well, and then, despite this, went on strike to only further prove to Boeing management that whatever minor benefits the Washington workforce may provide are usually wiped out by strikes and uncompetitive demands.

As the economy spirals into recession, I think the IAM was looking worse and worse.

But basically it's a breakdown of leadership on many levels, and just like the Airbus delays, if some of these specific issues were avoided by doing everything in house, other issues would have taken their place. Leadership failure always finds the cracks in the program and exposes them.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8872 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9622 times:



Quoting C767P (Reply 9):
Or maybe people are just happy a deal was reached and maybe there is a chance the 787 will fly before pigs do.

Both sides should be ashamed in my opinion, not getting a big pat on the back.

I hope they are happy and that it is a fair and equitable contract for all. I will certainly give a pat on the back to the union for defending their rights as the folks who do the work. They should share in the profit, as well as the glory. I guess the union and the people were not as expendable as most on here thought.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8872 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9584 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 22):
As the economy spirals into recession, I think the IAM was looking worse and worse.

I would say, who is at fault for the economy? certainly not the IAM or any other worker in the work force. The leaders who are compensated so well are to blame. Workers only do what they are told by management. If people do not like what the IAM has, too bad, let them go out and fight for their rights like the IAM has done. They do not like unions, too bad, let them deal with management with no protection. As usual, petty jealousy rears its head and that is too bad.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
25 Post contains links Jacobin777 : ..bout bloody time... .... ..good read here.. Boeing Reaches Agreement With IAM
26 JoeCanuck : So their principles have a price...good to know. I know...but eventually the union saw reason.
27 NYC777 : Well regardless of what happens in four years I think it's a no brainer that commercial aircraft production is on its way out at Everett. It'll probab
28 Manfredj : Fact: When there are no parts to put together, you cannot complete a project 100%.
29 WarRI1 : [quote=NYC777,reply=27]Well regardless of what happens in four years I think it's a no brainer that commercial aircraft production is on its way out a
30 JayinKitsap : It appears that the incentive pay plan was dropped in this agreement. As it was up to 4 weeks pay it could have been up to 7.7% in a good year. Probab
31 Par13del : I hope and pray that the IAM has not adopted the management attitude of those high price execs who presided over all those financial institutions tha
32 WarRI1 : In my world, unfortunately all principles now have a price. That does include both sides of this argument. Show me the money. Nice try with that line
33 WarRI1 : I like your sense of humor and with a giant dose of the truth about those high price execs. Of course it is all according to what side of the fence y
34 Par13del : Don't mind me mate, I'm just jealous Here's hoping they can get things back on track in record time, there is an awful lot of work to be done, downtu
35 797charter : Of course they haven't! They are waiting for fasteners!
36 F9Animal : It is still on. Wrong... Boeing can't run from the union, as the union will just keep chasing. Planes will continue to be built in Washington and Kan
37 A10WARTHOG : It could have been given up to return the health care back to the 2005 contract or something like that.
38 Isitsafenow : How 'bout Macau, China? safe
39 Brilondon : Boy are you ever bitter. Why do you still work for Boeing? I guess you will vote against the deal just so Boeing doesn't out source any part of the m
40 474218 : 4 years and not 3, why because it buys Boeing 33% more time until they have to go through this nonsense again. This is the first small step, they are
41 4holer : That's pretty funny. The employees could not care less about the company, in fact they despise it from what I get on the union side here. They are no
42 ER757 : I hope for good news this weekend - that the offer is accepted and folks head back to work starting Sunday night/Monday AM. Now, if Boeing and SPEEA j
43 Glideslope : Well, I was not going to post here but your quote is too good to pass up. You have done nothing except seal your fate. Boeing's Commercial Aircraft D
44 474218 : First of all the union members only make up about 1/3 of the Boeing employees in the Seattle area. Many of those 2/3 that are still on the job have b
45 AirNZ : Interesting point of view that.....do you mean similar to the 'experts' common mantra here on a.net that WN is not an airline. I guess I've been wron
46 474218 : How does Boeing make money, by selling aircraft. How does WN make money, by selling tickets. It cost Boeing money to build an airplane, hopefully the
47 WarRI1 : I cannot believe such sour grapes about this issue. It is obvious that all the union bashers, do not give a damm about Boeing. They just want to wail
48 4holer : Are you kidding me? It is YOU who have been preaching that mantra from the mountaintops over several threads here. But whatever... I do wish the best
49 JoeCanuck : Boeing always was going to do what's best for Boeing. Talking the union into another year gave them some predictability of production. It serves thei
50 JoeCanuck : With the wailing and gnashing about the greedy and corrupt management, I was thinking the very same thing.
51 PVD757 : Not only do I think that aircraft manufacturing may be dead in the future in SEA, but I wolud not rule out the Japanese partners building the next 737
52 Brilondon : I did not say this, it was a quote I had used in my post. The post must be read to get the what I was saying. Hear, hear. Congratulations to Boeing.
53 DLPMMM : You are so full of it. Intelligent people were saying that Boeing would not cede on the subcontracting issue. The Union clearly gave in on the issue
54 Ruscoe : A question! Can machinists in the automotive industry move into the aerospace industry without much re-training? Thanks Ruscoe
55 ER757 : I sure hope you are right on this one...I don't get to travel much to airports served by lots of international carriers. If they aren't sitting out a
56 474218 : The short answer is "yes". However, there are very few "machinists" in the Machinist Union.
57 F9Animal : Bitter? Where do you get that idea from? Pissed? Maybe a little, 50+ days that could have been resolved in 5. It was both sides that drug this out so
58 WarRI1 : Careful now, you all have been quite wrong so just take it easy, the contract is alive, the union is alive and Boeing is alive. in spite of all your
59 WarRI1 : Hear, hear, that is the meaning of an agreement, both sides sit down and talk and agree, it is not rocket science. Boeing to my everlasting surprise
60 WarRI1 : How nice of you to understand that the union is alive and well at Boeing. A skewed view of the union? My, I would have never guessed that the Boeing
61 WarRI1 : As I said, things might be looking up after Jan 09. The last eight years of ruination are coming to an end, one way or another. How cruel! you mean w
62 Glideslope : Fantasy as seen by a Unionized employee. There is no need for you any longer. Save the 110% stuff. I have been a unionized employee for 30 years. I s
63 WarRI1 : Maybe after the elections, we can get more unions going. If the Democrats pick up enough seats in the Senate and hold 60, we may also get the Free Ch
64 F9Animal : Your anti union rhetoric is sickening. There IS a need for me and my fellow brothers and sisters. Your anti union views should be viewed in the mirro
65 F9Animal : Fully agreed! I am glad we are almost at the finish line! The vote is the next hurdle.
66 4holer : Is it a union thing to post rapid fire additions to a thread...
67 4holer : ...One after another in consecutive posts as opposed to...
68 4holer : ...the more traditional method of gathering several thoughts together and placing them in one post? Just curious.
69 4holer : F9 and War, I actually do hope you are correct and Boeing thrive as well as the Union. Sure, I'll eat my words if so. I just don't see it happening. N
70 Spinner145 : Wow, it's a little frightening to see you choosing the steel industry as a model to emulate. Remind me how the US steel industry and its unionized wo
71 JoeCanuck : So I'm wondering; does management cease to become greedy and corrupt once the contract is signed? Throughout the strike we've heard how terrible Boein
72 Hatbutton : Come oooon. We've got plenty more here driving this economy than Boeing. I don't think we'll deteriorate and collapse into oblivion if Boeing left to
73 Osiris30 : The reality (as I see it) that a lot of union supporters are overlooking is this; Inside of 20 years you'll have manufacturers in places like Japan, R
74 Mrcomet : They won't take you and nor should they. They'll hire locally and the only airplanes you'll be puttin together will be models. Ha. Bottom line: You a
75 CARST : Are all workers back at work again? Are they producing a/c already? Or will they wait till the vote takes place in some days?
76 Brilondon : Its more then 15%. Each year you make more and that years % increase is not based on the first years wage but the previous years wage
77 Astuteman : Right on the money my friend (again) Your forecast might be about a decade late, though. We're already here......... And protectionism will only acce
78 A10WARTHOG : Explain that one a little bit more, if you could. Are you taken into account the progression steps?
79 474218 : It will be great when the Free Choice Act 2007 (2009?) is passed. Take away the secret ballot, all it does is allow a person to cast their ballot in
80 F9Animal : Vote will take place on Saturday. If the vote passes, workers can return on Sunday. Everything is still stopped.
81 WarRI1 : Well, desperate times, desperate measures, the deck has been stacked against labor for so long now through the currupting influence of corporations t
82 JayinKitsap : That probably increases the Union odds - "Vote yes or else..." It will make it tougher to move to a different state, but no change on moving to a dif
83 F9Animal : Well, I did my picket duty last night, and here is what I have heard so far. The overall reaction thus far from those that I have talked to, are not i
84 474218 : Some people don't believe that would ever happen. Some people think its a good thing.
85 Nycbjr : this hurts my head, and makes me sad
86 4holer : You can't be real. Nothing that I can add to this to make unions sound worse.
87 StuckInCA : I'd bet $100 it will pass.
88 474218 : People that actually walked the picket line, especially those that are still on the line after almost six weeks, are hardly a good cross representati
89 4holer : Hence the union desire to end secret ballot.
90 Osiris30 : Well in my defense, I did say over the coming decades, which technically started the second after I posted that :P It has not yet reached a level tha
91 Flighty : Cool, so when will the China factory be coming online?
92 WarRI1 : I wonder, not being from Barbados, what has the world economy to offer you folks and millions like you? Who is to protect your economic interests? Th
93 Pygmalion : $10.00 an hour plus 5% is $10.50 $10.50 plus 3% is $10.82 $10.82 plus 3% is $11.14 $11.14 plus 4% is $11.59 or a total of around 15.9% increase overa
94 A10WARTHOG : ok i see that. thanks
95 WarRI1 : My, for a union basher, you sure do spout a lot of wisdom about the typical union member. I would say, that the Boeing union showed that to be a fals
96 Glideslope : This is great news. The strike may continue even with a 50 +1 end game. Union De-Cert could still happen. If your accurate, the level of ignorance am
97 WarRI1 : It is probably better that you do not add anything more to the forum.
98 WarRI1 : That was a joke by the way, for all you serious and so easy folks.
99 WarRI1 : My goodness, look who is calling the kettle black, the word ignorant should not be bandied about so. One could be perceived as unreasonable with that
100 Osiris30 : Actually I'm living in Canada (Dual Citizenship by birth) , but having said that, there's under a million Bajans (Barbadians) If you read my post aga
101 Ruscoe : I think it is likely that those on the picket line are the most committed and dedicated members, and therefore a biased group. I would be very surpri
102 AirNZ : I'm glad you find that funny indeed, and says a lot. You've obviously 'forgot' about the many thousands who are not on strike. To be perfectly honest
103 474218 : Because for years I was a union member. The majority type, in the union only because it was required to stay employed. In six years I went to two uni
104 JoeCanuck : I still haven't gotten an answer to my question; is the management still greedy and corrupt even after an agreement? If not, how have they changed? I
105 F9Animal : I sure hope so. I am actually in favor of what I see so far. I would however like to see the entire contract and the language before committing to a
106 WarRI1 : I was using Barbados as an example. the bigger tend to feed on the smaller in this world. Maybe in a dream world the World Council will decree that t
107 WarRI1 : My hat is off to you for a fair, clear and concise statement, at least someone agrees with the ideals of a two sided conversation.
108 WarRI1 : Quite obviously, you had a vicious and demented union steward who should have been turned in to the union business manager, and voted out as steward.
109 Sxf24 : The union said they'll release tomorrow. I think everyone's interested in seeing it, particularly after the leadership and negotiators have spoken so
110 WarRI1 : I do not know if I answered this, or it was addressed to me Let me say once again, just because upper management is greedy, correct me if I used the
111 Osiris30 : I swear I must be one of a very small number of high-level managers in the world that actually care about my employees. Caring about your employees a
112 WarRI1 : I quote your one point, but honestly there is not one of your points that I can disagree with. It is indeed a pleasure.
113 Tdscanuck : 787 composite parts (starting with coupons, and all the way up to full fuselage barrels) were first built at Boeing's facilities Seattle. So, either
114 Osiris30 : The knowledge required to build commercial aircraft today is far more common than it was 20 years ago, which is what I was trying to get at. Addition
115 JoeCanuck : Saving over a half a billion dollars in lost production during a strike sounds like a good reason. It will probably cost over a billion after all is
116 Post contains links Jacobin777 : Some more news...hopefully this will be solved as well.. Boeing, SPEEA Commence Contract Talks
117 ER757 : You're correct in that it would be very expensive and time-consuming to move production lines. What I think could happen is that future aircraft mode
118 474218 : After reading revised proposed contract I have a question for one of my Boeing/Union friends on one the proposals the Union seems to be real proud of.
119 A10WARTHOG : I would say it means, union can bid to keep the work in house. The union is putting a bid in on behalf of Boeing. It is along the same lines tat the n
120 Pygmalion : in general terms, the union lays out what skills and levels it would apply from a workforce perspective. It could mean lower level employees than curr
121 WarRI1 : You miss the point, the union still has what it started with, and maybe a little more. If they did not strike, do you think that would be the case? I
122 Sxf24 : If you were in Seattle and watched the news, you'd see there is at least a contingent of very bitter and militant employees. They're out (in the word
123 Post contains links F9Animal : I have reviewed the contract, and I am fine with it. I am going to vote yes for it. However, after watching the news, I began to get the gut sick fee
124 Sxf24 : I think Boeing is trying to postpone too much movement on SPEEA until the IAM votes. Boeing already conceded on outsourcing their (admitting the 787
125 F9Animal : Yes, and the issues I had concerns about were addressed, and I felt good about what is being offered. The union stated off camera that they were misi
126 Osiris30 : Well, with flame retardant underwear firmly in place; If the union votes the contract down I hope Boeing breaks the union. I'm sorry, but if the unio
127 F9Animal : What happened to the edit option? I tried to edit this! Anyways, the union literally just posted information regarding the misinterpretation of the l
128 4holer : Well it seems that union leadership has spent the past few months working up membership into an angry frenzy, now it is surprised that membership is t
129 Tdscanuck : There are far *less* commercial airplane makers now than there were 20 years ago...why do you think the knowledge is becoming more common? The knowle
130 Osiris30 : And there is far more fundamental design knowledge in the public domain. Same for toolsets to do the design work. And what defines a leader from a la
131 Astuteman : Are these two the same thing? The engineering effort on new programmes is spread far more globally than it ever was in the past, I would have thought
132 Sxf24 : Yes, when referring to the mistake of outsourcing the detailed engineering to partners.
133 Sxf24 : An interesting point. I think the union leadership is done, whatever the outcome.
134 LY4XELD : The strike started affecting customers from day 1. That should be the least of our worries. I'd love to have more flexibility and get more time off f
135 F9Animal : Well, if anything I wish you guys and gals the best of luck. SPEEA has been very supportive, and we really appreciate it. Giving the company an extra
136 AirNZ : So, because you 'lost' half a billion dollars during a strike your idea is to spend tens upon tens of billions of dollars to try recover this?? Sorry
137 AuroraLives : I'll give it a shot.... IAM is asking Boeing to make a financial commitment for a non-employee potentially 60 years in the future (i.e. paying medica
138 MCIGuy : So when is the vote?
139 StuckInCA : What do you mean? You mean the best and final offer? It is (or was) online. I read it (mostly). I've been thinking about that. I think the contract w
140 Post contains links Tugger : Saturday. "Machinists will vote Saturday on Boeing contract" http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...gy/2008322781_webmachinists28.html
141 StuckInCA : Wow. Reading through comments on the KOMO website is pretty enlightening. About half of them seem to be union members whining about a new policy that
142 JoeCanuck : Actually, since Boeing was reputed to have lost 100 million dollars a day, the sum is closer to 5 billion dollars. They can never recover their losse
143 Post contains links Tugger : From the way I read it Boeing did not lose that amount and it can be argued that it isn't actually much of a loss since they didn't lose orders. Esse
144 WarRI1 : Just a bunch of people expressing their frustration and their views, everyone has them. It is now up to the union leaders to convince them to approve
145 A10WARTHOG : I am with F9, when on the picket line today, a lot more people were saying they were voting No on the contract than Yes. Now again it is was only 12 p
146 F9Animal : I hear ya. I am concerned about it. It is going to be a nail biter for sure. I am trying to prepare myself for a rejection of the latest offer. Hope
147 A10WARTHOG : I heard that too. People say we reject this on and two weeks later Boeing will give us the offer we want. But I am with you I am not holding my breat
148 Tdscanuck : That's lost revenue, not lost profit. Their costs also went way down during the strike. They're losses only in the accounting sense (revenue that won
149 JoeCanuck : You can't have profit without revenue. Of course Boeing lost money during the strike. The exact amount will have to wait until the next quarterly rep
150 Tdscanuck : Of course not. But it's massively misleading to suggest that Boeing lost $5 billion in the strike...that was my point. Absolutely true. Nobody is pre
151 Pianos101 : Which bring us back to the fact that the strike has really been hurting the partners, Vough in particular, as we've all seen this past week. The iron
152 Sxf24 : From what I've heard, overtime spiked for many procurement and finance support functions and they tried to mitigate the impact of the production stop
153 A10WARTHOG : Totally agree.
154 F9Animal : Very odd feeling today when I voted. I did overhear many saying they voted no. My coworker told me he voted no, and he has 2 family members as well t
155 Osiris30 : When are the results due?
156 Pygmalion : "polls" close at 6pm local time... About 20 minutes from now. I'd imagine an announcement sometime before the late news later tonight Pyg
157 F9Animal : All votes have to be brought to one central location. They will be counted, and are supposed to announce the results between 8 and 9 tonight. See abov
158 A10WARTHOG : F9 same here. There was a lady that was outside talking about LOU# 37, about the word "unless" being in there, when it talks about the vendor not inst
159 Osiris30 : Thanks guys. Finger crossing time.
160 Post contains links NYC777 : A report on Scott Hamilton's web site says that acceptances is running ahead of declines by about a 3 or 4 to 1 margin. He's calling the election and
161 F9Animal : Well folks, the news is in. The strike is over. 74% voted in favor of the contract. The strike is over!!!! Now, time for a cold one!!!
162 Post contains links SASD209 : http://www.iam751.org/ Contract approved
163 StuckInCA : I'm glad it's come to an end. Based on what I've read, there's not much change form the contract that started the strike. Is that the case? If not, wh
164 WarRI1 : Good for the Union and for Boeing. Let us hope better days are ahead for labor because of your efforts and sacrifice.
165 WarRI1 : Let us hope they are better than all the predictions of doom and gloom expressed on here. It is in the hands of Boeing and the unions, not us.
166 Tdscanuck : They traded the originally offered wage gains against holding the line on benefits. Probably a wash in $ from Boeing's point of view, just different
167 Pianos101 : I think therein lies the problem. Ya know, for the past 8 weeks I was saying, "you guys are so lucky that you actually have well paying jobs with inc
168 Astuteman : Slightly down, but not way down Misleading perhaps, but not massively so. Having to pay all of the businesses overheads whilst zero revenue is coming
169 Tdscanuck : Well, the rate of increase has actually gone down in the last few years so the unions have a legitimate request that the increases not be as large as
170 JoeCanuck : When did a 1.5 - 2.5 billion dollar loss become acceptable in business? Add up the losses from previous strikes as well. All this for an, essentially,
171 A10WARTHOG : The contract did change from the BAFO #1, but they are items most avg. people is not going to see as changes. Here are the one I think did the job. H
172 Sxf24 : Actually, Boeing has said that the cost sharing breakdown would, at worst, remain constant. That is what was reflected in the BAFO.
173 Astuteman : Apologies for the inference, Tom. Agree with those figures of yours. Easily surviveable for Boeing. Rgds
174 Pianos101 : Definitely not, but what's still in play is the option of building new lines either in right-to-work states or in other countries altogether. Know we
175 WarRI1 : Please, the strike is over and the contract approved. You will just have to deal with that. The union will be alive for at least four more years, dea
176 Pianos101 : Huh? Why wouldn't I be happy that it's over? I don't think it should've started in the first place... And just FWIW, obama's lead without undecideds
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