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BMI And LH Reach Deal..  
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 19298 times:

..and Bishop sells 50% plus one share to LH as outlined in a message relayed this morning by German financial media..

http://www.faz.net/d/invest/meldung.aspx?id=87819047


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
161 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27316 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 19298 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
.and Bishop sells 50% plus one share to LH as outlined in a message relayed this morning by German financial media..

Hmm so its happened then.


User currently offlineMyt332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 70
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 19259 times:

So I guess it's no longer BM 'Nein' time?


One Life, Live it.
User currently offlineBrightCedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1290 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 19219 times:

Looks like LH will soon (re)take the number one stop in Europe if they're not already there. AFKL is big but I think BDLHLX(OS)SN and others can't be very far below or even above...

Good news as far as SN is concerned, after announcing code-share with BD on many routes that were before operated with BE, this should be getting the answer to the LHR question and the replacement of BA by BD codeshare within Star Alliance, granted there are no further provisions to that special agreement.



I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
User currently offlinePilot21 From Ireland, joined Oct 1999, 1386 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 19138 times:

I would expect BA to use this as a big selling point to the regulators for allowing the BA/AA tie up to go ahead. With BMI as the 2nd largest holder of take-off/landing slots at LHR, this take-over gives these slots to LH effectively meaning LHR is open to competition across the Atlantic - should LH chose to use the slots to compete against them.

Pilot21



Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
User currently offlineSabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2728 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 19086 times:



Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 3):
Looks like LH will soon (re)take the number one stop in Europe if they're not already there. AF/KL is big but I think LH/LX/SN/BD(/OS) and others can't be very far below...

I think LH aims to simply DWARF BA and take the crown of AF/KL soon.

The deal with BD might be officially announced soon, since LH will also announce their year-to-date results as well as give guidance for the rest of the year at a video conference later today: LH reports it has booked an operational profit of some €950M over the past 9 months and is on track to book more than €1.1B in profit this year!

No wonder they are in a buying mood, with so much money on the bank!


User currently offlineJamesontheroad From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 556 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 18892 times:

Well, we all knew it was going to happen sooner or later. Doesn't mean I won't shed a tear for the end of BD's independence. Over on a certain frequent flyer forum bmi Diamond Club members are already plotting how to take advantage of BD's very generous mileage redemptions before the Diamond Club gets subsumed into Miles&More (aka "Miles&Less" when compared to DC)

Quote:
Lufthansa: Talks On Future BMI Structure,Put Option Exercised
29 October 2008
Dow Jones International News
(c) 2008 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.

FRANKFURT (Dow Jones)--German flag carrier Deutsche Lufthansa AG (LHA.XE) Wednesday said it is in talks with Michael Bishop, founder of British Midland Airways Ltd., or BMI, over the future structure of the U.K. airline.

In its third-quarter report, Lufthansa said Bishop has exercised a put option, which requires Lufthansa to purchase his 50% plus one share stake in BMI.

The completion of the BMI put option exercise isn't expected to occur before Jan. 12, Lufthansa said.

Lufthansa already owns a 30% stake in BMI. The remaining 20% are owned by SAS AB (SAS.SK).

BMI is a small airline by global standards but has a valuable asset. It controls 11% of the takeoff and landing slots at London's popular Heathrow Airport, the world's busiest international airport, placing it second after British Airways PLC (BAY.LN), which controls more than 40% of the slots this summer. Lufthansa and its subsidiary Swiss International Air Lines together have 5%. Lufthansa bought Swiss in 2005.

...continues



User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27316 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 18892 times:

This will upset quite a few people and regular BMI flyers.

User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 18798 times:

This is great news, BD will now flourish under LH control and become a real powerhouse at LHR.
Curent Climate issues aside I would guess we will now see BD ops to the US open up at LHR maybe sometime next year assuming they can get some widebody metal.

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 4):
I would expect BA to use this as a big selling point to the regulators for allowing the BA/AA tie up to go ahead.

 checkmark 

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 3):
Looks like LH will soon (re)take the number one stop in Europe if they're not already there.

 checkmark 

Quoting Oa260 (Reply 7):
This will upset quite a few people and regular BMI flyers.

Why, whats your reasoning behind that comment?


User currently offlineHotelmode From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 460 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 18732 times:

Only 20% of Bmi slots at LHR are reckoned to be any good for Long haul. They have very few late night departure slots and virtually nil arrival slots in the morning transatlantic rush. More likely is an increased frequency to feed LH hubs plus a limited long haul network.

It also probably means BA/AA/IB will go ahead with no regulatory problems. I think Virgin will be quite concerned at this turn of events.

[Edited 2008-10-29 03:21:59]

User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 18670 times:



Quoting Hotelmode (Reply 9):
Only 20% of Bmi slots at LHR are reckoned to be any good for Long haul. They have very few late night departure slots and virtually nil arrival slots in the morning transatlantic rush. More likely is an increased frequency to feed LH hubs plus a limited long haul network.

I cannot see many passengers wanting to backtrack to say FRA to fly to the states but I get your point about slots.
I am sure that BD/LH will look at JFK or BOS out of LHR to fill in *A gaps, JFK in particular, although that will need at least IMHO to start with two flight a day minimum. With CO joining Star that of course changes the playing field slightly in the NYC market but I think JFK is a glaring hole for *A out of LHR which needs to be filled.
Time will tell.


User currently offlineJamesontheroad From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 556 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 18606 times:



Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 8):
Quoting Oa260 (Reply 7):
This will upset quite a few people and regular BMI flyers.

Why, whats your reasoning behind that comment?

Lufthansa Miles&More is a significantly worse Star Alliance programme that BMI Diamond Club, and if the Swiss integration is anything to go by, DC members will see their mileage and status balances converted at a ratio of 1:1. Compare LH's earning requirements for Star Alliance status:

Star Alliance Silver status: 35,000 miles (BMI 16,000)
Star Alliance Gold status: 100,000 miles (BMI 38,000)

IIRC that's the lowest gold status earning requirement of any Star Alliance carrier.

Additionally DC is significantly more generous when it comes to remptions, namely because you can choose to redeem 100% miles or 50% miles and 50% cash. Since the cash element is a fixed fee, you can enjoy J or F for the price of Y. Apologies to Flyertalker Raffles, whose table of LH remeption miles I'm pinching:

J to the US - 90,000 miles (BMI - 37,500 c+m)
F to the US - 140,000 miles (BMI - 50,000 c+m)
J to Thailand - 120,000 miles (BMI - 60,000 c+m)
F to Thailand - 180,000 miles (BMI - 80,000 c+m)
J to Dubai - 60,000 miles (BMI - 30,000 c+m)
F to Dubai - 100,000 miles (BMI - 40,000 c+m)

BMI's spending table is here: see for yourself

https://www.flybmi.com/bmi/src/html/diamondclubhowtospendmiles.html

 cry 


User currently offlineDavehammer From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 472 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 18576 times:

Well it seemed inevitable but I'm not sure this is a brilliant thing for anyone but LH. Time will tell.

User currently offlineSabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2728 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 18533 times:

Anybody in the know whether SAS will also sell their 20% share in BMI (to LH)?

The Scandinavians probably have other priorities than to hold on to a minority share in a British airline and could raise some cash by selling their share to LH, whereas LH would probably be eager to buy out SAS, thus getting full control over BMI, being able to consolidate the financial results into their own annual results without any hastle, just like they do with SWISS

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 10):
I cannot see many passengers wanting to backtrack to say FRA to fly to the states

Indeed not. Which is why LH is eager to get its hands on BMI in the first place.

I understand BMI may not hold that many suitable slots convenient for transatlantic flights right now, but LH definitely holds a bunch of rush hour slots at LHR which it can now uses for flights to secondary German airports. It is not such a wild idea to think they might swap some of the more interesting morning slots amongst the airlines they control to allow 'their' BMI to use them for more lucrative flights to the US, while simply changing the schedule on the less lucrative German regional routes from LHR to make it possible.

About the backtracking and the hastle it really is: how does BA plan to fight for pax in continental Europe in the future? For everything but the United States, pax need to backtrack to LON and in London, they may very soon get some very hefty competition from LH (through BMI) on their bread and butter routes! BA really is pushed in a corner here, they ought to have a continental partner airline ASAP: OS would have been ideal really, just like SN, BTW.


User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 18454 times:



Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 13):
BA really is pushed in a corner here, they ought to have a continental partner airline ASAP: OS would have been ideal really, just like SN, BTW

Unfortunately for BA it is late I have to say. As much as I like them, I think they were too conservative and having LH comfortably installed at LHR will hurt BA a lot. I do not see how can BA compete in Europe....



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineHotelmode From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 460 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 18348 times:

I dont think the case for buying every airline for sale from the atlantic to the black sea has yet been proved. Magalomania plays well on A-net but many US airlines have been expanding and merging for decades and still struggle for profitability. Too many hubs too close together makes savings difficult, unless you shrink the smaller hubs, in which case why bother buying the likes of OS/SN in the first place?

BA has excellent connections through LHR and excellent yields from Europe to the rest of the world. Nothing here changes that, bmi just do not have enough slots for a large enough long haul network from LHR. Virgin have been competing out of LHR for years and BA can still (even now) fill 500+J seats daily to NYC, whilst they still have no more than 200. And AF have ably demonstrated that new entrants with low frequencies dont fare well.

[Edited 2008-10-29 04:11:57]

User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7089 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 18316 times:

With that many slots at LHR LH really does not need the A300 on the FRA-LHR route so it is very likely that they will retired next after the 737.


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 18295 times:

Well this is big news - even if it has been on the cards for a while.

What would make it really interesting is if the rumours of LH buying SQ's 49% stake in VS turn out to be true.....



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineSabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2728 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 18273 times:



Quoting Hotelmode (Reply 15):
BA has excellent connections through LHR and excellent yields from Europe to the rest of the world.. Nothing here changes that

Things are changing rapidly.

Allow me to predict that In 3 years time, virtually NOBODY on the European Continent will fly BA to any long haul destination, other than transatlantic, because they will all have far more convenient access to these destinations via their home airport/airline and more logic connections on partner airlines of their national carrier.



Quoting Hotelmode (Reply 15):
bmi just do not have enough slots for a large enough long haul network from LHR.

They needn't have a global long haul network, all they need to have are good transatlantic flights, because these are the only long haul routes where it is less convenient for UK citizens to to fly LH than BA/VS.

Besides, LH holds some very interesting slots at LH, which it will be eagerly transfer to BMI, to compete with BA/VS.

Now, is LH/BD going to wipe away BA? Definitely not, but they are going to grasp a far larger portion of the UK home market than BD could do on its own. And what can BA do in retaliation somewhere on the European continent? Basically nothing, because of the non)central location of LON and the lack of EU partner airline to retaliate through.


User currently offlineMMEPHX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 18240 times:

Long anticipated and inevitable in many ways but I do wonder how LH is going to cope with all the integrations and expansions (Italy) they have going on simultaneously. Biggest isn't necessarily best. LH are incredibly well organized and if anyone can pull this off they can but I do wonder at what stage they will make a move too far.

Any thoughts on what will happen to the BD links to the UK regions from LHR?


User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 18223 times:



Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 13):
Anybody in the know whether SAS will also sell their 20% share in BMI (to LH)?

The Scandinavians probably have other priorities than to hold on to a minority share in a British airline and could raise some cash by selling their share to LH, whereas LH would probably be eager to buy out SAS, thus getting full control over BMI, being able to consolidate the financial results into their own annual results without any hastle, just like they do with SWISS

SAS has said that their 20% stake in BD is for sale.

But with 80% of the vote, LH can do pretty much as they want and are having full control

Quoting Hotelmode (Reply 9):
Only 20% of Bmi slots at LHR are reckoned to be any good for Long haul.

Which should be enough for this time being. It's not like BD are planning on becoming the new Virgin Atlantic having only long hauls. 20% of 14% is still 2,8% of the total slots and I'm sure BD could fit the "must have" long-haul destinations there.


User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 18188 times:



Quoting MMEPHX (Reply 19):
Any thoughts on what will happen to the BD links to the UK regions from LHR?

Some will stay in order to feed the hub operation at LHR but one or two links or frequencies will probably go, as expected regardless of LH buying BD.



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27316 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 18147 times:



Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 8):
Why, whats your reasoning behind that comment?



Quoting Jamesontheroad (Reply 11):
Lufthansa Miles&More is a significantly worse Star Alliance programme that BMI Diamond Club,

He is obviously not one of us  Wink

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
29 October 2008

Dear Colleagues,

As many of you are aware from press speculation and comment, our two principal shareholders, Sir Michael Bishop and Lufthansa, have certain options over Sir Michael's majority shareholding in bmi, which were agreed when Lufthansa first became a shareholder in bmi in 1999.

On 10 October Lufthansa and Sir Michael Bishop on behalf of the BBW Partnership Ltd exercised an option which requires Lufthansa to purchase 50 per cent plus one share in British Midland PLC (bmi). It is expected that completion of the transaction will take place in mid January. In the meantime the Board and the management of the company will remain unaltered, but it is anticipated that alterations to the Board to reflect the new majority shareholding will take place on or around the date of the transfer of ownership.

This is a major change for bmi as Sir Michael has held a controlling interest in the airline since 1978. This brief note cannot adequately reflect his contribution to the company since joining the airline in 1964.

Discussions have already taken place with Lufthansa as to the future shape and direction of the bmi group. It is also worth remembering that Lufthansa have had representatives on our Board for the last nine years and therefore have a good view of all aspects of our business already. However, those discussions will now intensify and it would be wrong for me to prejudge the conclusions at this stage. Personally I am pleased that we are becoming a member of the Lufthansa family in this challenging time for our industry.

As soon as I have further details you will of course be advised. In the meantime please do not let the media interest or internal speculation about what may or may not happen as a result of the change in ownership distract you from the job in hand which remains just important regardless of who the shareholders are.


User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3929 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 18106 times:



Quoting Cornish (Reply 17):
What would make it really interesting is if the rumours of LH buying SQ's 49% stake in VS turn out to be true.....

That really would be interesting. A day of mixed emotions for most, I guess. On one hand BD has a much brighter future as part of the LH group, but on the other the loss of diamond club will be a blow to many UK frequent flyers.

Brian.



Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27316 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 18061 times:

Lufthansa buys BMI for £318 million

Lufthansa, the German flag carrier, has bought a controlling stake in bmi for €400 million (£318 million) from Sir Michael Bishop.

The German carrier now owns 80 per cent of bmi, the former British Midland International, and is expected to make a bid for the remaining 20 per cent, which is owned by Scandinavian Ailines (SAS). SAS has put both the stake and itself up for sale.

The acquisition of bmi will make Lufthansa the second-biggest operator out of Heathrow, the world's busiest international airport, behind British Airways.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...ctors/transport/article5037031.ece


25 Hotelmode : Theres already no reason to connect through LHR on most far east routes on that basis. Yet BA has very high market share. Corporate travel department
26 AIR MALTA : Well unfortunatly yes. But I will have to add more to that. Nobody would need to use OneWorld in Central Europe to go anywhere. BA and fellow OneWorl
27 Adicool : There are several crucial differences between BD and VS. VS virtually has no feeder system and has to relay completely on the O&D market in LON. Most
28 Jfk777 : Let the great Lufthansa/BMI Atlantic services begin, LHR to JFK by May 2009 double or tripple daily.
29 Someone83 : Not completely correct. VS has feed into LHR from more or less competing airlines through interlining or other agreements. Often when I do a search f
30 UAL777UK : Which begs the question, when are we going to hear from SRB complaing that BD being sold to LH will hurt competition or should I say VS. Even if he d
31 Glom : I don't like this. I was only two months away from getting silver status. I went with bmi because of the good frequent flyer programme. Essentially, t
32 Sabenapilot : Thank you, that's what I thought would happen. BMI might be 100% owned by LH by mid 2009 then. Seems like LH is planning on fully integrating one com
33 Pilot21 : Didn't take VS long to respond - and not in the usual SRB way!! Virgin Atlantic has proposed combining its operations with Lufthansa to create a Europ
34 Glom : Scratch the above. I just checked my account. I got a boost from my bmi amex and am now a silver member. Got in just in time. Now when does my card a
35 Sabenapilot : It is interesting to see how fast the European aviation scenery is being reshaped by means of mergers and consolidations these days... I doubt it ver
36 Adicool : If, and I emphasise if, VS and LH decide to start a cooperation ex LHR, then I'll assure you that those 49% SQ holds in VS will be sold to LH no matte
37 AirNZ : Sorry, but where are you coming from with that? Have you somehow forgotten that SQ do not own VS, so how do you propose that they can sell it? They h
38 Commavia : I agree with the above assessments: I think this will simply add even more weight to AA and BA's argument that not allowing them to fully cooperate a
39 Columba : Does he mean better known brand in LHR ? I sure hope so, LH is the much better known brand than Virgin when it comes to airline business.
40 Beaucaire : Truth is that Virgin have missed the boat one year ago when they failed to initiate a complete re-thinking of their London-model.Today you can't fill
41 CARST : Would the European Union's antitrust agency theoretically allow LH to buy BMI, SASs' BMI shares, SAS itself AND SQs VS shares? Just to think about se
42 Post contains links VictorKilo : Here is a Times Online article confirming Virgin's interest in merging with the LH.LX.SN.BD Lufthansa group. On another note, what is the future of bm
43 Col : I would not be surprised if VS and LH have been talking for some time already. SRB is not stupid, a little crazy sometimes, so he has probably seen t
44 Sabenapilot : Read me again please. Meaning they would not want to 'merge' with VS like SRB/VS suggested, but rather simply buy them up! Also I know SQ is not the
45 CARST : But i am sure if LH wants to invest in VS they would want to merge VS & BD. And that could only mean one thing, BD would be merged into (!) VS becaus
46 IliriBDL : So if someone can explain this to me, BMI will remain just as they are and continue to operate on their own, but LH owns them? (just like LX) Or are w
47 Sabenapilot : Interesting question.... I don't know if LH will be particularly interested in running a British LCC??? How are bmibaby doing, are they profitable on
48 CARST : When the deal takes finally place in January they could do with the slots what they, at least that is how i think it is. Perhaps they would have to s
49 JoFMO : VS has some quite nice offers from Germany to Australia. You book VS but fly on an BMI codeshare flight operated by LH.
50 CARST : They own Germanwings as a German LCC, i think they could operate British LCC, too. If it is and remains profitable...
51 LHRjc : They could even offload their old 737's to WW to increase baby's fleet.
52 BCAL : Perhaps SRB has realised that nowadays people no longer see VS and BA (or other major airline) as the David and Goliath of the airlines, he no longer
53 Mysterzip : Bigger isn't always better.
54 Cornish : VS were always going to be one of the biggest losers long term from open skies, and if LH were to turn Bmi into a significant long haul carrier out o
55 CityofAthens : We certainly live in interesting times. I wish LH all the best in their UK venture, it's great to see my industry finally beginning to behave like any
56 Sam1987 : This might sound like a silly question but will BD still operate as its own brand from January 2009 or will they rebranded as LH? What about bmi regio
57 EZYAirbus : Are bmi going to continue operating under there own brand or will they be absorbed into LH completely? bmi livery is one of the nicest around, persona
58 Glom : Definitely. And my bmi credit and diamond club card look great in my wallet. Would be nice if they could improve their website though. Maybe a bit of
59 APYu : I dont think this is all doom and gloom for Virgin at all and expect VS will jump into bed with LH and BD sometime soon making an interesting threesom
60 IliriBDL : Ok, I see. Thanks. Hopefully they do something like LHR-JFK, or any other city in the US. Maybe even use a 380 in the future.
61 JoFMO : I think LH would be happy to have a German London. Unfortunately for them they have not and need to hub in small country towns like FRA and MUC with
62 Jfk777 : Given the Singapore Airlines 49% investment in Virgin and SIA & BMI's Star alliance membership I think this is only phase 1. There could be a phase 2
63 Sabenapilot : Why would they change name? SWISS is 100% owned by LH, yet they aren't called Lufthansa Switzerland, are they? Same with Brussels Airlines, they are
64 Nighthawk : The carriers need to remain on seperate operating certificates in order to operate internationally - while the EU-US have openskies, such an agreemen
65 Glom : Does that include diamond club?
66 MidEx216 : So, is this going to be about the same as with Swiss, Condor, Brussels, and Air Dolomiti? In other words, will bmi remain, just under new ownership, o
67 BOAC911 : I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years you can all kiss your beloved frequent flyer proframmes good bye.
68 APYu : Rightly or wrongly - A german name on an airline in the UK isnt a great move for historic reasons so I would imagine BMI will stay or some such incar
69 BrianDromey : BD will NEVER be known as Lufthansa|uk. Diamond Club will inevitably become Miles and More, probably in late 09/early 2010 I think it makes sense. It
70 CityofAthens : If that is the true reason, I feel we are at a stage where most of us could transcend such issues, without for a moment meaning to forget or triviali
71 Cornish : Actually if it gives us an impression of punctuality and reliability then yes people won't care about the name. After all, BMW, Audi and Mercedes are
72 AviationMaster : The bmi brand will not dissappear. Check out Sabenapilot's post 63 - it's all explained there.
73 Glom : Well then I'm not pleased. I'll never be able to maintain my new silver status under those conditions.
74 ManchesterMAN : The bmi brand will remain and will probably get stronger. For a start I expect bmi to finally launch services to the USA in 2010, in conjunction with
75 Ankaraflyjet : With this expected development we will see an end to BA codeshare on BMI (former BMED) flights to several destinations in CIS, Africa and the Middle E
76 Adicool : There is one problem I have with a possible linkup between BD and VS within the LH group? What would be their focus? I don't think LH wants to give up
77 Glom : So is it best to spend all my miles before this happens? A general question: if I buy a flight on miles, do I get the miles for that flight I would g
78 LHRjc : No, you don't get any miles... Well I didn't anyway on my recent MAN-ABZ flight on BD regional.
79 Holidaycharter : Please excuse my ignorance have LH taken over BMI?
80 Glom : Well that sucks. I need to get my membership status miles to keep up my status, but I also need to spend my miles sharpish.
81 Post contains links GuoTai : Suggestion here that LH's plan is to use BD slots to operate A380 trans-atlantic services from LHR. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...1085&sid=aE
82 CYatUK : Any ideas how this deal may affect the BMI long haul operations from MAN? LH seems to be committed to MAN (at least for short haul to Germany)
83 GuoTai : Anyone here from LX who can say how day to day life changed - particularly from the perspective of cabin crew - after LH took control? Is Lufthansa go
84 CityofAthens : From a crewing perspective, I doubt much will change ... BMI already have a pretty efficient/cost-effective set of crew which I doubt LH would change
85 Oa260 : Rumour has it that it will be shut down and A330's moved to LHR.
86 CYatUK : I thought that was before the deal with LH was announced. Could this (the LH) announcement be the "news" people were expecting?
87 David_itl : The alternate rumours for BD at MAN (which my now tie-in with this news) is that the A330s are staying but bmibaby is to be reintegrated into mainline
88 Leskova : It's been quite some time since A300s were anything but just a small exception on the FRA-LHR route: the vast majority of flights have been on A32S/B
89 Myt332 : I paid for you with my miles anyway, scrooge!
90 Oa260 : How jammy can you get .
91 R2rho : So now we'll have LH-LX-EN-SN-BD-(OS)+some Italian operation in whatever form... but I guess I'm the only one here who has concerns about competition.
92 LH121GLA : For quite a major development, the UK media don't seem to be making much of this news for the moment.
93 LH121GLA : For quite a major development, the UK media don't seem to be making much of this news for the moment.
94 LH121GLA : Actually I've just watched Sky 'News' who have just described BD as a low cost carrier. Oh dear.
95 BrianDromey : I think it will go one way or the other, LH have a track record of using regional airports as bases for long and short haul, if the market can suppor
96 MillwallSean : Why should LH do much at all about BMI at the moment? They will integrate things we cant see, but route wise I doubt we will see much change. Spares,
97 Viscount724 : Even operating separately, with more than 49% of BD, they will likely have to renegotiate their bilaterals with countries other than the EU/US since
98 AirNZ : Then why don't you simply say what you mean, instead of incorrect comments of ".....just going to buy VS from SQ"?
99 Sydscott : What would be more interesting is if BA came along with a better cash offer for the 49% of Virgin Atlantic that SQ owned and it got sold to them. Tha
100 Humberside : Competition authorities would never allow that
101 Kimberlyrj : I am not sure if BD wanted to be a LCC but their service certainly points in that direction. I have not heard of the news (apart from the www)... Kim
102 MillwallSean : I am also sure that SRB has a first right to the VS shares making it rather difficult for anyone just to come and purchase SQ 49% without having SRB
103 SeansasLCY : I think this is brilliant maybe now BA will start expanding and buying other airlines and growing. BA could be a huge airline with a massive route net
104 Alasdair1982 : Such routes as say...Manchester - JFK?
105 AirNZ : What is there worthwhile left for BA to buy? They had their chances and chose to bury their head in the sand. BA were a huge airline, with a massive
106 VS11 : Well, it finally happened. However, I do not really see LH pumping up cash to grow BMI. If the potential was there, it would have happened by now, wit
107 MillwallSean : VS11 Its good points but you miss the one main point to why this wont happen. Virgin does not have money nor does SRB. VS is not a very profitable air
108 VS11 : Thank you but how do you know how much money Branson has or does not have? Trust me, if BD is up for sale, he will find the money. As to SQ, their st
109 Sydscott : I don't think that's a question we could really answer at the moment because realistically VS isn't really that big in the scheme of things. Sure the
110 SKORD : So... where does all this news leave SAS? The news about LH buying them has died, and with LH spending all this money on BD do they have enough cash t
111 PurpleBox : BMI is not 'for sale' as this news is just a conclusion of a deal made back in 2000 between SMB and Lufthansa. Either SMB or Lufthansa have just exer
112 Post contains links GuoTai : SRB was in Dubai trying to raise capital and came back empty handed... I think if you can't find cash in an oil state finding it elsewhere seems pret
113 Beaucaire : But that article is from April .. The BMI decision is taken- so even if he raised the capital to buy BMI,SMB exercised his put option in favour of LH-
114 GuoTai : True. My point for VS11 was that SRB didn't have any luck in raising cash in an oil rich state and I don't think it would be too different in the fut
115 Super737 : IMHO I personally believe this us an excellent opportunity for BD to become a major name and airline within the UK. The ever efficient germans will im
116 GuoTai : and thats the main thing I would like to see... do to BD what they did to LX and it will be a winner.
117 VC10 : In all the answers I might have missed this one ,but if LH buys more than 50% of British Midland then surely British Midlands no longer exists as all
118 Cornish : Anywhere the UK has Open Skies agreements with will be fine for bmi flights under LH control - so thats all of the EU and the US for starters - plus
119 UAL777UK : Hmmm, lets assume LH is going forward with a tie up with VS, I would have thought that is going to piss off UA. They get a lot of feed out of LHR not
120 Sabenapilot : Well, bmi's intra-European traffic rights are definitely unaffected since Lufthansa is a EU airline, so nothing changes there. Also, with the EU/US o
121 Cornish : I disagree. Firstly LH and UA may work closely but the relationship isn't that cosy - a case in point being when LH got seriously annoyed with some o
122 Theginge : The deal here between LH and BD surely opens the door to the BA/AA/IB tie up. Virgin is looking like the airline that needs an alliance now!
123 Cornish : on both counts. A serious financially strong heavyweight like LH buying was the worst possible outcome for VS as things stood - no wonder they were s
124 UAL777UK : A you say, years ago, they have a verygood realtionship now, the JV over the pond which will include AC and CO if approved a case point. It works ver
125 Cornish : I still keep in touch with some LH senior managers from my old job - the relationship is better than it was - but it is still considered "less than i
126 CasualObserver : Can't see this as a bad thing - Lufthansa is an excellent airline - they've never let me down as a passenger - brilliantly efficient and helpful staf
127 UAL777UK : That just about sums up the whole aviation industry! Dont get me wrong I dont doubt that but in Star, UA a founding member and has a lot of clout. I
128 Cornish : It certainly has - but one step behind LH and SQ, although ahead of all the others. Its always been that case, and it shows in any meetings... Oh I a
129 UAL777UK : I dont know your job and I appreciate your views but on this I have to take a differnt view altogether. SQ were not a founding member UA was along wi
130 Cornish : I appreciate you having another view - I'm not going to knock them, but purely disagree. suffice to say in the past I've been involved in government
131 WunalaYann : Is it any surprise that the "big four" you mention are also among the most profitable?
132 AF022 : Does this news impact rumours that BMI will be pulling out of stations like Tehran and Addis Ababa?
133 Antonovman : So where is the bearded one ? Keeping his head down it seems apart from going grovelling to LH to let him join their club ! If the announcement had be
134 GuoTai : I guess he can't do more than Ridgway already suggested until LH show us the map of the future. (...see above, I guess...) but I would be surprised if
135 Yellowtail : Why do this when bmi could codeshare on already existing CO routes?
136 Leezyjet : I've just read through the whole thread, and I don't think anyone has mentioned that it seems it was more SMB who excercised his right rather then LH
137 Eyeonthesky17 : LH has had the funds for the BD purchase put aside for some time now. The others (SK, OS, AZ?), maybe not.
138 Jfk777 : Apart from the USA, I don't see three British Airlines flying from LHR to NRT, SIN , HKG or JNB. BMI needs the Virgin network and Branson needs the B
139 BlueShamu330s : ...or LH can sit back and watch the weakest of the 3 whither and die; it won't be BA or BD.
140 UAL777UK : Your right on there. LH has a massive war chest for just this kind of purchase. I dont think BMI needs VS at all, not now anyway, but VS...I think SR
141 Adicool : good point. LH is known for being very rational. I think they can turn BD into a profitable carrier with a better product (respectively figure out th
142 VS11 : Very interesting drift into fantasy-world. Also very contradictory. LH is very rational, which is why it is doubtful they would want to put the neede
143 Eyeonthesky17 : VS may not be so necessary for BD/LH. UA serves LHR from IAD, ORD, LAX and SFO. Furthermore, CO serves it from EWR, IAH and CLE ( LGW?). That is pret
144 SeansasLCY : I disagree, LH could invest and just watch VS collapse. VS is now by far the weakest of the UK carriers. VS needs bmi where as bmi can just expand it
145 VS11 : And even if LH invests, why would VS collapse? Certainly, there would be more pressure but why do you expect that VS would collapse? VS grew in BA's
146 BlueShamu330s : VS11 We have come to blows before whilst discussing Virgin. Why would/could VS collapse? Easy. Competition 101. Simple. Lufthansa move the BD 330s to
147 SeansasLCY : Exactly what i was talking about. VS with BD will be alone with no feed. Thus VS passengers and profits will decrease and the airline hasn't done gre
148 Antonovman : Exactly, thats why the bearded one is keeping his head down no appearances on tv and radio staions blasting every airline except his and no painting
149 VS11 : I am sure all premium pax flying out of LHR on ANY airline would pay dearly to fly the RETIRED LH A300s - that's certainly THE winning strategy. Bett
150 Post contains images Antonovman : HAHA thats a great idea, better still why not use these ?
151 JoFMO : The problem for LH is that BD is not the incumbent on any LHR-US route. So even if VS is harmed by BD, BA is the one how profits the most, not LH-BD.
152 VS11 : Thank you! I couldn't agree more with you. It is way smarter for LH to "get in bed" with VS rather than go on its own against BA and VS. Dumping more
153 SevenHeavy : On that basis I think you would be very suprised by the figures for the first half of this year Everyone assumes that all of VS's connecting feed com
154 Adicool : Question: If LH buys the remaining 20% from SK, and will then wholly own BD, would BD be part of the anti-trust immunity thing (I'm sorry, I never kno
155 PurpleBox : All this talk of the A330's going down from MAN to LHR! That's really just a side issue - the real issue is just how many long haul aircraft will LH a
156 Humberside : Many people would agree there is potential but there are many rumours that bmi will pull all MAN long haul. Wednesday has been mentioned for a possib
157 Bwaflyer : There are many many rumours doing the rounds in the crew room at the moment (naturally) such as all the A330s coming to LHR, all regional mainline cre
158 SeansasLCY : Will all the BA= London Airways people then call bmi this aswell. Looks like MAN and the regions ain't the goldmine they all make out.
159 Adicool : But LH ain't stupid. Concentrating just on LHR would follow their normal policy. In Germany, we have two hubs, FRA and MUC but there are, above all,
160 David_itl : Only muppets like yourselves think there's a goldmine here. There has to be have been something okay with the numbers for it to have lasted so long d
161 AirNZ : Why would they be called London Airways as well? Are you conveniently forgetting that BMI have always continued to serve the regions of the United Ki
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