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Future Of DAB?  
User currently offlineMkeflyer717 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 431 posts, RR: 12
Posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4225 times:

Hey everyone, I've been at ERAU now for over 2 months and some things got me thinking about the future of airline service out of DAB. As most people know the airport has a reputation of having a hard time keeping airlines around i.e. air tran, continental express. To me the airport seems very underutilized. It's very sad to drive or taxi by and see only one of six gates occupied on a regular basis. Most of us Riddle students can't help but complain about the service we get at DAB and it's pretty much a constant lunch topic for some of us.

Just recently a friend of mine had the Director of Business Development for DAB, Steve Cook, speak during one of his classes. He shed some light on what they airport is currently pursuing and I thought I would share it with you guys to get your opinions/reactions.

To start I learned that DAB proposes no landing or gate fees to new airlines for a year, which in today's current situation seems pretty appealing. He continued to mention their continual interest in B6 and WN which would drastically evolve the market into a more low cost competitive one (which we really need!) It was also pointed out that Coexpress will more than likely return to the airport and that they are in the process of getting USexpress service to PHL or DCA. I believe American Eagle was also brought up in relation to service to MIA or DFW.

So does anyone else see any of this being remotely feasible, or is it all a stretch of optimism brought forth by an overly confident businessman?

A few factors to be looked at include:
- the proximity to MCO/SFB
- the strong low cost pressence in MCO
- the actual demand to DAB
- Daytona and surrounding area population ( supportive of additional flights?)
- previous performance by airlines into DAB
- possible marketing strategies

With all this said, I hope sometime in the near future DAB is able to expand. The airport is just too nice to sit so empty all the time. It would be very nice and convienent to have more flexible and cheaper options to travel home with instead of having to automatically turn to MCO all the time.

On a side note, I was curious if ERAU being at the airport was part of the problem. Is it possible airlines simply overlook DAB because of the fact we have a TON of general aviation flights that they would be conflicting with (safety issues) I know the skies can become quite hectic aorund here and adding more IFR flights would inevitably complicate the scene even more wouldn't it?

-Gaston

[Edited 2008-10-30 21:26:17]


Avoid the Chicago ORDeal!! Fly MKE!
46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21852 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4144 times:



Quoting Mkeflyer717 (Thread starter):
On a side note, I was curious if ERAU being at the airport was part of the problem. Is it possible airlines simply overlook DAB because of the fact we have a TON of general aviation flights that they would be conflicting with (safety issues) I know the skies can become quite hectic aorund here and adding more IFR flights would inevitably complicate the scene even more wouldn't it?

No, it's not an issue. ATC knows when the airlines are coming, and clears everyone else out of the way. Fewer airline flights is good for ERAU and the other schools, since it means shorter waits at the runway (those three minutes per large airplane really add up, especially when the hobbs meter is ticking and the available time for actual training is getting shorter), but it doesn't work the other way around.

You might see some seasonal service at DAB for the winter and through the races and spring break, but I just can't see the demand for a whole lot of year-round service. Certainly not with Orlando so close by.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineMidex461 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4109 times:

WN?!!!
In what fantasy land is the DAB management living? As close as DAB is to both JAX and MCO, I just don't see WN flying to DAB. Not with the way they like to go into a new city. Plus there's the fact that DAB is still pretty much Redneck/Party Central (NASCAR, Spring Break, Bike Week, BCR, Biketoberfest)

B6 - maybe with the E190



Opinions and views expressed are MINE and do NOT represent the views of US Airways
User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 855 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4032 times:

When I was at Riddle back in the late 1980s//early 1990s, DAB was hopping with DL, EA, PI (then US), CO, PA Express and Presidential...then they built the new terminal and it all went to crap!!!

User currently offlineCMHSRQ From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 999 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3979 times:

I have said it before and I'll say it again the DAB area is a dump. They are focused on tourism, so the yeilds suck. DAB was the worst performing station for FL. What does that tell you. A lot of people say that DAB could support more traffic but it really can't. Not with SFB and MCO the LLC capitals of the world an hour away, and because people shop for airline tickets like they shop for gas DAB will continue to be empty. So on that note if you were to close MCO, SFB, JAX, and MLB then maybe DAB would then get some additional carriers.


The voice of moderation
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7671 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3867 times:

DAB probably gets more attention than any other airport in its predicament because of the presence of Embry-Riddle, but the fact is that as long as Orlando is a powerhouse airport it will suck the life out of all the other small airports in the region. It's just that airports like Gainesville, Melbourne, and Sarasota don't get as much attention.

What is really amazing is that Sanford has done as well as it has, but that is largely because it appears to have been bank-rolled by all sorts of public money beginning with the placement of 417 at its front door.


User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2693 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3846 times:



Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 4):
They are focused on tourism, so the yeilds suck.

Prove it. Fares out of DAB are consistently $120+ more to the Northeast. CO had great yields out of DAB, but fuel killed it and now many say they regret dropping their higher-yielding Florida routes (SRQ and DAB) as fuel settles lower. It's not completely yield-related. It's demand-related. Now that gas is relatively inexpensive again, it's now cheaper to drive to MCO/JAX and pay for parking than it is to pay higher fares out of DAB. I've done it for two years and will probably continue to for the next two before I leave. Only when the price of gas and parking is more than the higher fares at DAB will you see pax numbers, and therefore service, jump.

Mkeflyer, I think that unfortunately the guy is full of hopes and dreams. In the past two years, I've seen UAX and CO leave, FL come and go, and quite frankly most of this talk is just that - talk. I think our best chance of any new service is to hope for B6, but they've been hoping for years and it's just not the time for airlines to be adding many new domestic destinations. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, of course.


User currently onlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1626 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3820 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 5):
I have said it before and I'll say it again the DAB area is a dump.

Man you can say that again. I've been here since the middle of August, and can with out a doubt say that this town isn't someplace to live for all of your life. And, since I don't live here, when I fly home for breaks, I can't justify spending the additional costs of flying from DAB. When I can get a shuttle to MCO for a much cheaper flight, why spend more? As a college student, I'm looking for the cheapest way to get stuff done.

The spring break crowd will be the same way. They come here, because its cheap. They're going to want a cheap flight, so, they'll end up flying WN into MCO. They are looking to save as much money as they can, so they can spend it at the liquor stores out by the beach.

-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlineLONGisland89 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 741 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3802 times:

I heard BA is interested in serving DAB!

User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3800 times:

I could see a CR9 to DTW.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7671 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3798 times:



Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 7):

Man you can say that again.

Actually you quoted me, but that wasn't in my post. I wouldn't say it is a dump. It's just a touristy, beach town. I might go so far as to call it trashy, but have you seen Kissimee? There are better places and there are worse places.


User currently offlineCMHSRQ From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 999 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3768 times:



Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 6):
Prove it. Fares out of DAB are consistently $120+ more to the Northeast. CO had great yields out of DAB, but fuel killed it and now many say they regret dropping their higher-yielding Florida routes (SRQ and DAB) as fuel settles lower. It's not completely yield-related. It's demand-related. Now that gas is relatively inexpensive again, it's now cheaper to drive to MCO/JAX and pay for parking than it is to pay higher fares out of DAB. I've done it for two years and will probably continue to for the next two before I leave. Only when the price of gas and parking is more than the higher fares at DAB will you see pax numbers, and therefore service, jump.

see this thread on yield for FL, DAB ranked last with 8 cent yield and 59% LF 2nd quarter
SRQ is ranked 12th at 12.6cents
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...archid=4193087&s=daytona#ID4193087


see this thread for yield for CO
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...archid=4189642&s=daytona#ID4189642
DAB #60 at 14.2 cents and SRQ # 63 13.4 cents

see this thread for yield for DL
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...archid=4193057&s=daytona#ID4193057

DL is a lot better

DAB is 55 at 16.6 cents and SRQ is 38 at 18.2cents

ps thanks MOB flyer for posting that



The voice of moderation
User currently offlineManfredj From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3725 times:



Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 4):
I have said it before and I'll say it again the DAB area is a dump.

It's been a few years since I've graduated, but I remember the town making an effort to clean it up. From what I saw, it was coming along.

Keep in mind, the airport also supports the Daytona 500 which makes it a very busy airport a few days out of the year. The airport has been and always will be class C airspace because of the Riddle traffic.

Airlines will come and go; this has always been the case. DAB may strike it rich one day and get a major in who will make it their own.

As for you MKeflyer, enjoy your time at our wonderful school...it was without a doubt the best 4 years of my life. The teachers are top notch, the students are a great mixture of cultures from around the world, (I visited my roomate in Egypt while I was at school) and the atmosphere is decidedly conservative. I'm jealous.



757: The last of the best
User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3708 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 9):
I could see a CR9 to DTW.

I think this will happen. The Zip code survey at the airport indicated a large number traveling to and from the midwest. Back in the day, DAB-CVG did quite well. Of course, that went by the wayside with the scaling back of DL's hub there. DTW is a strong hub with connections all over the midwest, and Mesaba having a CR9 base there certainly makes it an easy add as that would likely be the right sized aircraft.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineMkeflyer717 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 431 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3687 times:



Quoting Midex461 (Reply 2):
WN?!!!
In what fantasy land is the DAB management living?

I had pretty much the same reaction when I heard that

Quoting Midex461 (Reply 2):
B6 - maybe with the E190

That would be ideal. It seems like it could work, especially before WN or a return of FL.

Quoting Enilria (Reply 5):
It's just that airports like Gainesville, Melbourne, and Sarasota don't get as much attention.

Very true for GNV and MLB, but I can't figure out how SRQ has so many more flights than DAB. How do they make SRQ-MIA function, but they can't do a DAB-MIA? SRQ is also closer to TPA/PIE than DAB is to MCO.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 9):
I could see a CR9 to DTW.

that brings up another point. With the DL/NW merger is there possibility DL would begin DTW-DAB? What about a JFK-DAB flight on a CRJ? I know a ton of riddle kids who would benefit from a flight direct to the northeast, and if anyone does it shouldn't it be Delta since they pretty much control air travel out of DAB to begin with?

I know this may too sound like a dream, but I wondered if any low cost British carriers would be willing to start routes into DAB much like they do into SFB. A 3 times weekly flight to London or something similar would be amazing.

Daytona may not be the most attractive city in some regards, but there is also DeLand, Ormond, New Smyrna, and further north up through the palm coast/Flagler beach area to be considered in marketing DAB. I'm not sure what the total population is for those cities combined but I guess what im trying to say is that if the right strategies and approaches are taken, the DAB market could be enhanced one way or another.

Quoting Manfredj (Reply 12):
As for you MKeflyer, enjoy your time at our wonderful school

Thank you, I definitely will. I love it here so far.



Avoid the Chicago ORDeal!! Fly MKE!
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3669 times:



Quoting Mkeflyer717 (Reply 14):
What about a JFK-DAB flight on a CRJ? I know a ton of riddle kids who would benefit from a flight direct to the northeast, and if anyone does it shouldn't it be Delta since they pretty much control air travel out of DAB to begin with?

I think a DTW connection would be better since you can get to more places in the NE than JFK offers, and its a much better connecting hub that allows for other midwest connections.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3661 times:



Quoting Mkeflyer717 (Reply 14):
that brings up another point. With the DL/NW merger is there possibility DL would begin DTW-DAB? What about a JFK-DAB flight on a CRJ?

Well, anything's possible. I mean, I see DTW-DAB as a distinct possibility. DAB-NYC is also a market that I don't see sitting dormant for too long. I bet there's enough traffic for a flight or two, seeing as at one point last spring there were three airlines fllying to NYC from DAB. Of course, none of them did so hot on it during that time, but there's gotta be enough traffic for one.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineCMHSRQ From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 999 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3640 times:



Quoting Mkeflyer717 (Reply 14):
Very true for GNV and MLB, but I can't figure out how SRQ has so many more flights than DAB. How do they make SRQ-MIA function, but they can't do a DAB-MIA? SRQ is also closer to TPA/PIE than DAB is to MCO.

SRQ has a Ritz Carlton, Opera, Symphony and plenty of other things that cities much larger then it don't have. Its called money, culture, and a business base.

Quoting Mkeflyer717 (Reply 14):
that brings up another point. With the DL/NW merger is there possibility DL would begin DTW-DAB? What about a JFK-DAB flight on a CRJ? I know a ton of riddle kids who would benefit from a flight direct to the northeast, and if anyone does it shouldn't it be Delta since they pretty much control air travel out of DAB to begin with?

I know this may too sound like a dream, but I wondered if any low cost British carriers would be willing to start routes into DAB much like they do into SFB. A 3 times weekly flight to London or something similar would be amazing.

Daytona may not be the most attractive city in some regards, but there is also DeLand, Ormond, New Smyrna, and further north up through the palm coast/Flagler beach area to be considered in marketing DAB. I'm not sure what the total population is for those cities combined but I guess what im trying to say is that if the right strategies and approaches are taken, the DAB market could be enhanced one way or another.

It won't happen, for JFK or DTW, DL will not overfly 1 hub to another 600 miles to the north when 90% of the connections can be made through ATL.

Riddle students wouldn't support a daily Delta BE1900 daily to ATL. Except during spring break, the holiday, and the beginning and end of classes for the year.

Sorry you are all dreaming



The voice of moderation
User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3620 times:



Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 17):
It won't happen, for JFK or DTW, DL will not overfly 1 hub to another 600 miles to the north when 90% of the connections can be made through ATL.

Okay, you just totally made a statement with zero basis! Way to go! Delta has plenty of routes that do exactly that (i.e. SAV-CVG)! For years they operated DAB-CVG, Delta's (at the time) primary hub for midwestern connections. Now, DTW will be Delta's big hub in that part of the country. Connecting opportunities to the midwest are slim out of ATL, many served with only 1 daily flight. DTW offers a slew of other connecting opportunities. So to say 90% of the connections can be made through ATL leaves out one piece of the puzzle.



Good goes around!
User currently onlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1626 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3619 times:

Enilria, sorry about that, I'm new, and still trying to figure out how to make the quote system work. Will work on that next time.

Regarding SRQ. Its a very different town. There is a significant snowbird population, who probably do quite a bit of traveling while they are down there. Plus, if you live south or southeast of Tampa Bay, I think its probably faster to go to SRQ, and get through the much smaller airport, than it is to TPA. Every time I've looked, the prices aren't that much higher at SRQ than TPA, which adds to the ease of traveling out of SRQ, IMHO.


User currently offlineBWIA 772 From Barbados, joined May 2002, 2200 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3600 times:

DAB may have a come a long way but it is still a tad on the dumpy side!! I've been here at ERAU since August! Most of my friends here including those who have been here longer than I have all agree that they commuting to MCO is cheaper than taking DL out of DAB.



Regards
BWIA 772



Eagles Soar!
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21852 posts, RR: 55
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3532 times:



Quoting Mkeflyer717 (Reply 14):
I know this may too sound like a dream, but I wondered if any low cost British carriers would be willing to start routes into DAB much like they do into SFB.

Won't happen. SFB is ideally positioned to serve both the beach areas and the Orlando attractions. The same can't be said for DAB. So starting service to DAB when you could serve SFB doesn't make much sense.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineTWAL1011727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 636 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3478 times:

The only thing that will help DAB and MLB is to have MCO sucked into the ground by a hugh sinkhole. Period !

MLB has already been offering freebies to airlines with very few takers.
When they do come into MLB something happens globally to have them pull out.

MLB is more business oriented than leisure but that doesn't help either.

KD


User currently offline747luvr From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3466 times:

I live in Deltona, about 25 miles southwest of DAB, and 10 miles north of SFB...would I love to see the majors there, yeah...but I face the reality of making the 45 miles commute to MCO. It doesnt bother me, it's a great airport, great facilities and plenty of airlines to pick n choose for service. Maybe someday it would mean more, but not the end of the world if not.

User currently offlineAdamWright From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3416 times:

It's funny how the ERAU crowd thinks the airport revolves around them.. The airlines aren't begging you for cash from your thin wallets. Daytona will always be a high-priced market aimed at people who choose convenience over price.

25 MAH4546 : Wealthy population base and a strong number of connections to premium Caribbean destinations. The route is basically a St. Kitts feeder.[Edited 2008-
26 DALMD88 : I went to ERAU in the late 80's. Yes we had a ton of service, but it was still cheaper to fly out of MCO. After I left they built that nice new termin
27 Ginger727 : Quoting Mkeflyer717 (Reply 14): I know this may too sound like a dream, but I wondered if any low cost British carriers would be willing to start rout
28 Wdleiser : Should of just gone to Prescott. Always enjoyed the hour and 15 minute drive to PHX and the B1900 from PRC to LAS or PHX was fun too. I decided to lea
29 PanAm330 : That's even worse in terms of airline service! About a 1hr drive from PRC to PHX, or DAB to MCO/JAX.
30 Post contains links Pilotboi : I can't believe how much attention a DAB post has gotten. While there is a big presence of college students, surprisingly there are non-college people
31 NASCARAirforce : Steve Cook is a great guy. I worked with him on some projects when I was at ERAU in the mid 2000s. If anyone criticizes him for having optimism, what
32 DiamondFlyer : I wouldn't deny that one bit. I was just responding to the OP's question about ERAU students complaining about service, I thought I'd chime in. Heck,
33 CMHSRQ : In the past year how many point to point routes overflying another hub have been cut? To many to count and it continues. Check DL's MCO schedule 18 m
34 RL757PVD : DAB can, but an LCC an upset the mix quite a bit US/FL/CO was a "death mix" for DAB FL killed yeilds to NYC, esp with their LGA flight that hurt CO U
35 Apodino : One of the things I learned when I was at ERAU is that if you take the cheaper flight out of MCO and use the Shuttle to and from the airport, you end
36 PanAm330 : Not always. For example: my latest MCO-SYR roundtrip was $240. Four days of parking at MCO: $40. Half a tank of gas was $20. The fare ex-DAB was $560
37 DiamondFlyer : I don't fly out of either. I've got some family over in SRQ, so, rather than leaving my car here in DAB, I'll take it to where I know its safe for br
38 NASCARAirforce : DAB needs one of those LLCC - what i call low low cost carriers like Allegiant. There are rumors going around at MCO that Allegiant is not happy with
39 FlyDeltaJets87 : I do that. I automatically add $100 to the price of any ticket out of MCO when I see the fare for long breaks by the time I factor in gas, parking, t
40 DeltaRules : Um...what? When I sat down & thought about it, I was surprised Skybus didn't go into DAB & market it as "Daytona/Orlando/Jacksonville". Then again, I
41 Enilria : SRQ airport has a very aggressive financial incentive plan for new services. They are spending a lot more than DAB. That isn't the only reason, but i
42 NASCARAirforce : DAB would have been a great place for Skybus, it is beyond me why they were going to airports in Florida that had no airline service whatsoever like
43 JohnClipper : It was to DUS...
44 Enilria : Given your moniker I'm going to assume that you meant that people would come to Daytona for a race and then go to Orlando for a day trip. I agree wit
45 RL757PVD : I believe the flight continued on to somewhere else. DAB's INTL terminal has a large in transit lounge for that reason.
46 NASCARAirforce : My bad NASCAR weeks, bike weeks and during Spring Breaks. In the 1970s and 1980s Daytona was the spring break hot spot. Magic Kingdom opened in 1971,
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