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American Eagle Flight 4181 14 Years Ago.  
User currently offlineAccess-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1939 posts, RR: 13
Posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 6375 times:

Hey guys,

Just a reminder that on Halloween back in 1994, American Eagle lost their flight 4181 in the cornfield in Roslawn, Indiana.....in an inverted dive due to ice build up on the areas of the de-ice boots resulting in loss of all life on the aircraft.

Lets forget the squabbling about Northwest and Delta for a few moments and sit and rememebr the ones that perished in that totally un-necessary accident....

A book was published about it as well....Entitled: Unheeded Warning (American Eagle 4181).

It was written from the perspective of a former Simmons/American Eagle captian that flew the ATRs....

Access-Air


Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 6280 times:

It's hard to believe that it's been 14 years already.

I remember all too well watching the breaking news reports on TV. It's indeed a shame that these people had to die.

The only good thing is that this accident, and many pax complaints, have pretty well rid our skies of puddle-jumpers. I look forward to the day when there are no more anywhere, but I fear I have a long wait ahead.

I'm going to look for the book - I'd like to read it.



Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2435 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 6280 times:

NTSB docket on Eagle 4181:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001206X02420&key=1

I remember that cold, rainy, nasty day quite well from not that far away in W. Michigan.



Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5504 posts, RR: 29
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 6231 times:

Anyone who has viewed the transcript of the final moments of the flight would know just how chilling it was. I actually think about this one from time to time - it was that sobering.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineRW170 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 430 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 6220 times:

It was actually American Eagle Flight 4184, not 4181.


319/320/321/712/733/734/735/73G/738/752/753/763/CR2/CR9/DH8/135/145/170/175/190/D9S/D94/D95/M82/M83/M88
User currently offlineAccess-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1939 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 6146 times:



Quoting Contrails (Reply 1):
The only good thing is that this accident, and many pax complaints, have pretty well rid our skies of puddle-jumpers.

Well, I really dont want to turn this thread into a major tiff, but it had nothing to do with the plane being a "Puddle Jumper," it had everything to do with the fact of the makers of the ATR series not equipping the ATR 42 and 72 with enough de-icer boot coverage on the wings to safeguard against ridges of ice forming just beyond the covered area, which on other Turboprop planes such as the Dash 8, Shorts 360, Beech 1900D, etc...was adequately booted.
To make that super efficient wing of the ATR perform at its best, they had to "skimp" on the amount of de-icer boot coverage as more coverage would decrease the efficiency fo the wing.

Had that flight been operated with one of the Shorts 360s at that time, which AA Eagle/Simmons was also flying at the time, it most likely would not have crashed in my personal opinion. As when AAEagle had to ground their ATRs the Shorts 360s could keep flying...

Still this whole thing is very sad and should not have happened had the inherent problem been fixed six years earlier after ATI Italy lost and ATR 42 in the Italian Alps in almost an identical set of circumstances.....

Access-Air



Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2703 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 6063 times:

I remember that storm also, I was in college in Champaign, Illinois. I remember coming home and seeing this on the news, very sad...

Ironically, there have been quite a few horrible accidents on Halloween, lets not forget those victims:

1950 - BEA - Vickers Viking – England - 29 Deaths
1979 - Western Air Lines - DC-10 – Mexico - 72 Deaths
1994 - American Eagle - ATR 72 - Indiana - 68 Deaths
1996 – TAM Airlines - Fokker 100 - Brazil - 99 Deaths
1999 - Egypt Air - Boeing 767 – Nantucket - 217 Deaths
2000 - Singapore Airlines - Boeing 747 – Taiwan - 83 Deaths
2000 - ACA-Ancargo Air - Antonov 26 – Angola – 48 Deaths


User currently offlineAccess-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1939 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 5958 times:



Quoting RW170 (Reply 4):
It was actually American Eagle Flight 4184, not 4181.

Oops sorry, my bad....I knew that....My fingers went stupid when typing it....Thanks for the correction.

Access-Air



Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2327 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5922 times:



Quoting Contrails (Reply 1):
The only good thing is that this accident, and many pax complaints, have pretty well rid our skies of puddle-jumpers. I look forward to the day when there are no more anywhere, but I fear I have a long wait ahead.



Quoting Access-Air (Reply 5):
Well, I really dont want to turn this thread into a major tiff, but it had nothing to do with the plane being a "Puddle Jumper," it had everything to do with the fact of the makers of the ATR series not equipping the ATR 42 and 72 with enough de-icer boot coverage on the wings to safeguard against ridges of ice forming just beyond the covered area

Exactly ... however, the crash did bolster the media-fed perception that people like Contrails hold regarding turboprops as being unsafe.

Looking at the grand scheme of things, I'd say it's plausible that Eagle 4184 was an indirect contributor to the RJ boom of the late '90s.



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlineT prop From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1029 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5828 times:



Quoting Contrails (Reply 1):

The only good thing is that this accident, and many pax complaints, have pretty well rid our skies of puddle-jumpers. I look forward to the day when there are no more anywhere, but I fear I have a long wait ahead.

Sounds like a statement the average ignorant flying public would make..  Yeah sure


User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1537 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5798 times:

Quoting Contrails (Reply 1):
The only good thing is that this accident, and many pax complaints, have pretty well rid our skies of puddle-jumpers. I look forward to the day when there are no more anywhere, but I fear I have a long wait ahead.

That is an awfully broad statement. Many people have no problems getting on a turboprop or so called "puddle-jumper". Some places in the world, and in the United States even, its the only way to have economical service to smaller cities. To be honest with you, those puddle-jumpers can be more fun to fly on, and someday, I hope I get to fly a turboprop, as opposed to pushing buttons in a jungle jet.


-DiamondFlyer

[Edited 2008-10-31 13:29:33]

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22935 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5764 times:



Quoting JBo (Reply 8):
Looking at the grand scheme of things, I'd say it's plausible that Eagle 4184 was an indirect contributor to the RJ boom of the late '90s.

I'd go further than that, JBo. It was unquestionably one of the big reasons that MQ made ORD all-jet, and that certainly led to an arms race with UA.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineRscaife1682 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5758 times:



Quoting Contrails (Reply 1):
The only good thing is that this accident, and many pax complaints, have pretty well rid our skies of puddle-jumpers. I look forward to the day when there are no more anywhere, but I fear I have a long wait ahead.

This post has nothing to do with the original post. It is a very ignorant comment from someone who has no aviation knowledge.

RYAN
FLT OPS


User currently offlineDaviation From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5723 times:

A year or so ago, I had the opportunity to see the de-icing boots in action on a Dash-8 of US Air (one of the subsidiaries). It was a LGA-BUF run, and most of it was spent at 18,000 ft, inside cloud cover. It wasn't exactly a smooth flight, but it gave me the chance to watch those boots go for it. It was amazing -- every few seconds the entire leading edge would form the shape of venetian blinds and pop off any building ice. I'm happy to say that the return flight was CAVU (is that correct?), and we flew over the Finger Lakes region for an Expressway approach to LGA. I personally enjoy puddle-jumpers -- it gives you the chance to see landmarks that you would never see from a jet altitude, and it actually feels like real flying.

User currently offlinePshifrin From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5406 times:

The founder of our company was on this flight. An incredible organization was setup in his honor.

http://www.projectmorry.org/pages/who-we-are/morrys-story.php


User currently onlineRDUDDJI From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1472 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4804 times:



Quoting Pshifrin (Reply 14):
The founder of our company was on this flight. An incredible organization was setup in his honor.

My best friend's Dad was on that flight too. He had changed flights to get home earlier.

That's why we have to live every day as if it's our last.



Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days ago) and read 4431 times:



Quoting Rscaife1682 (Reply 12):
This post has nothing to do with the original post. It is a very ignorant comment from someone who has no aviation knowledge.

No knowledge except flying lessons and later a half-million air miles as a passenger. Due to medical reasons I couldn't become a pilot, which had been my dream.

You have every right to your opinion, and I respect that. I have a right to mine.



Flying Colors Forever!
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