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QX And Their CRJ-700's Question  
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Posted (5 years 9 months 5 hours ago) and read 4536 times:
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With the fuel prices going down at a fairly astonishing rate these days, is it possible that the management at QX would consider keeping their CRJ-700's?

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSuperDash From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 574 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 3 hours ago) and read 4470 times:

From what I have read...no. But they are talking about deferring Q400s until they are able to sell CRJs. So, the net is that the CRJs could be in the fleet a bit longer than originally planned. Even with fuel at a lower rate the Q400 still kills the CRJ-700 in operating cost. Remember, the Q400 is still 30% more efficient than the CRJ. That translates to big bucks when you look at it on a yearly basis.

User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8408 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 3 hours ago) and read 4455 times:



Quoting SuperDash (Reply 1):
Remember, the Q400 is still 30% more efficient than the CRJ. That translates to big bucks when you look at it on a yearly basis.

Yeah but the CRJ700's extra speed gives you an extra roundtrip from the crew and the jet, every day. That can be nice too. Don't get me wrong the Q400 is a compelling choice especially in the close packed East Coast. But in the West basically I think they need some of both, jets and props. The 700 can burn off 1,000 mile trips like nobody's business. Both are great aircraft within their specialties. But I question QX's decision, I really do.


User currently offlineAzstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 617 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 4417 times:

QX400 and CRJ700 cruise at the same speed.

User currently offlineSuperDash From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 574 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 4417 times:

Problem is in the West with Southwest pricing, you can burn off a 1,000 mile trip and burn off a ton of cash too and come out with less money than you started with. The sweet spot in the West, is around 1.5 to 2 hours. The Q400 is dominant in that sector - period. And it is a difference of at least $2M annually per plane - conservatively. If you look at the Horizon system 2.5 hours is the longest run they do. Only 50 of their flights are over 2 hours. And of those 50 only 24 are operated by the CRJ (5% of the flight total). It's not worth keeping a high cost plane for 5% when Q400 is mission capable on all of those routes. Once you go to common fleet another significant 8 figures of cost comes out of the company. That's why that is a good decision. Too bad they didn't do it 2 years ago.

If you want to question something, getting rid of the all of -200s was probably not as good of an option (keeping some but not all might have been good for some of the smaller routes). But at the end of the day, the CRJ just can't hold a candle to the Q400 - period.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8408 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 4381 times:



Quoting SuperDash (Reply 4):
But at the end of the day, the CRJ just can't hold a candle to the Q400 - period.

I am glad you like the Q400 so much. It is a nice plane.

Quoting Azstar (Reply 3):
QX400 and CRJ700 cruise at the same speed.

Maybe if the CRJ700 is broken, they do. "Help," they might say.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13517 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 4359 times:
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Quoting Azstar (Reply 3):
QX400 and CRJ700 cruise at the same speed.

Not exactly - however the block times for the Q400 and CR7 are nearly identical on stage lengths under 500 miles or so. The speed advantage for the CR7 is diminished on short segments.

And again, when you consider the seat-mile costs for the Q400 are so much lower than the CR7 having an all-Q400 fleet is a no-brainer.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineLamox From Norway, joined Oct 2008, 41 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 1 hour ago) and read 4349 times:



Quoting Azstar (Reply 3):
QX400 and CRJ700 cruise at the same speed.

I have been flying both, and that is just not true; There is a 100 kt speed difference!



none
User currently offlineFlyboy80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1876 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 1 hour ago) and read 4337 times:

Horizon's Q400s are terrible. The plane came to the company to replace the 100/100As and some of the shorter F28 flying I guess you could say. AAG should have ordered the plane with at least everything the Brasilia has. I would take a QX RJ over a QX 700, but I would take a Lynx Q400 over both!

User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 1 hour ago) and read 4307 times:
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Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 6):
And again, when you consider the seat-mile costs for the Q400 are so much lower than the CR7 having an all-Q400 fleet is a no-brainer.

If this were the case, then why did QX buy the CRJ-700's in the first place? Pressure from AS? Is QX really going to attempt extending the stage length of the Q400's to 3+ hours?

Quoting Flyboy80 (Reply 8):
Horizon's Q400s are terrible.

Matter of opinion. I've flown on several QX Q400's are enjoyed all of the flights. QX keeps their airplanes clean. They are relatively quiet compared to the old non-Q Dashes and the EMB-120). I would like to try Lynx someday, but you'll probably never find me flying on Frontier anyday soon.


User currently offlineAlaska737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1063 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4198 times:



Quoting Flyboy80 (Reply 8):
AAG should have ordered the plane with at least everything the Brasilia has. I would take a QX RJ over a QX 700, but I would take a Lynx Q400 over both!

What exactly does the Brasillia have? and Im assuming it was a typo but a QX RJ and a QX 700 is the same thing.


User currently offlineSuperDash From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 574 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4156 times:



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 9):
If this were the case, then why did QX buy the CRJ-700's in the first place?

As I understand the story....Horizon was looking to replace the F-28s. The launch of the CRJ came out first. Horizon's order was placed a year or so before the Q400. And remember that was for something in the vicinity of 30 birds - a number never reached by Horizon. But, Horizon couldn't get CRJ's fast enough and Bombardier pitched the Q400, which they could get sooner than the CRJ - I assume they got a good price as well. As mentioned above, the Q400 was to replace the Dash 8-100s and nothing much else. But then they found out how good the economics were and the Q400 replaced a bunch of F-28 routes while the CRJs went into a lot of new long haul routes - of which most failed (Tucson, Boise-San Diego, Boise-Denver, Boise-Phoenix, etc). Then the RJs were moved to Alaska routes (Portland-Bay Area, etc) and ultimately half the fleet to Frontier. Horizon has always had trouble making money with the CRJs. I am sure if they had a do-over that they never would have flown the CRJ. Some of the Alaska/Horizon folks please correct my history if I missed something.


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4132 times:
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Are some of the longer haul CRJ-700 routes going to be flown on Q400 equipment?

User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13517 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4039 times:
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Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 9):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 6):
And again, when you consider the seat-mile costs for the Q400 are so much lower than the CR7 having an all-Q400 fleet is a no-brainer.

If this were the case, then why did QX buy the CRJ-700's in the first place?

Replacement for the F28s primarily, and it was a good candidate for the route harmonization that AS/QX have done within the last decade where routes that couldn't support 120-140 seats per flight were swapped for a 70 seat jet instead, keeping the route and revenue within Air Group.

But again the Q400 came afterward - and it blew their socks off.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineWhatUsaid From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3951 times:



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 12):
Are some of the longer haul CRJ-700 routes going to be flown on Q400 equipment?

A SEA-FAT-PDX was to have transitioned to the Q in early '09, but that's now on hold with the CRJ 700 flying the route. FAT-SEA is about 740 miles, not a short route.


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3909 times:
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So, is it possible that we could see QX flying from SoCal like SBA to SEA or PDX nonstop, in addition to their new service between SMF-SBA? Is it possible that SMF could be a new intermediate QX hub in development?

User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3848 times:



Quoting Flyboy80 (Reply 8):
Lynx Q400 over both

I'm confused because I fly QX Q400s a lot and just recently flew on Lynx and there was no noticeable difference between the 2 aircraft other than the green interior seats vs the maroon.


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3815 times:
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I think the better Q400's to fly in would be Canada's Porter Airlines.

User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3801 times:
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How attractive are QX's CRJ700s on the market?

Bombardier still has orders for about 50 x CRJ700 NextGen, so the aircraft type isn't dead yet. But are factory-fresh aircraft (with the latest modifications included) more desirable even if the price is higher, than cheaper pre-owned aircraft that have been updated with most of the modifications?

Are QX's CR7s considered high-cycle aircraft already, after flying multiple one-two-hour flights for the last 5-7 years?



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8408 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3764 times:



Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 18):
Are QX's CR7s considered high-cycle aircraft already, after flying multiple one-two-hour flights for the last 5-7 years?

No way. With fuel at $65 the CRJ700 has a lot of moneymaking years ahead of it. CRJs are built like tanks according to most sources. There is no record of CRJ700s being worn out yet, anywhere. They are all quite new. Come on, a 2002 built aircraft might need a little maintenance but its life has hardly begun yet. The NextGen aircraft appear to have very nice LED lightbulbs in the cabin, but Bombardier is playing it up a bit too much.

In a world where DC-9-30s can still make money, why is it hard to believe CR7s can earn their keep...  Confused  Confused  Confused  Big grin I am not slagging the Q400, not at all. It is great. But the CR7 is also great at what it does.


User currently offlineAirNovaBAe146 From Canada, joined Jun 2008, 362 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3729 times:

At least two of QX's CR7s are going to South African Express in November.

SAX has a tradition of acquiring used CRJs from North America, as at least three of their CR2s are former DH machines.

Anybody else know of other QX CR7s being disposed of, and who will be operating them.


User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24879 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3699 times:



Quoting Azstar (Reply 3):
Q400 and CRJ700 cruise at the same speed.

That's not correct. The normal cruise speed of the CRJ700 is at least 100 mph faster.


User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3680 times:



Quoting AirNovaBAe146 (Reply 20):
Anybody else know of other QX CR7s being disposed of, and who will be operating them.

I have heard no rumors about where the others are going. From what I have read on our employee website, the other 18 CRJs are still being marketed and no one has expressed any serious interest yet. Someone from QX correct me if I'm wrong though.


User currently offlineKBFIspotter From United States of America, joined May 2005, 729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3579 times:



Quoting Hatbutton (Reply 22):
I have heard no rumors about where the others are going. From what I have read on our employee website, the other 18 CRJs are still being marketed and no one has expressed any serious interest yet. Someone from QX correct me if I'm wrong though.

I have heard a few rumors of were airlines interested in our CRJ's, but I cannot reveal them. It is my understanding that the remaining 18 are still up for graps with no serious interests so far, just a few nibbles.

Kris



Proud to be an A&P!!!
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3566 times:
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How do QX use the CRJ700 most efficiently now?

Is it more economical to fly the jets on longer flights as fuel burn is lower during cruise? Or are the jets flying only higher-yield routes? Or odd-hours leisure flights to Mexico (night flights and such)?



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
25 Jetboy319 : This is a scheduled day on an actual CR7 trip: YVR - SEA SEA - PDX PDX - SEA SEA - YVR YVR - SEA SEA - PDX Of course there is also SEA - FAT, PDX - O
26 TylerDurden : Well, Horizon has no window shades...the seats don't recline....and there is no sink in the bathroom. It's a miserable ride. I believe Lynx has shade
27 EA CO AS : One man's opinion. Others think differently.
28 Jetboy319 : That one opinion could be the difference between whether enough seats on the Q400 are filled to make the flight profitable or not. It is foolish to d
29 TylerDurden : One opinion that is shared by many. If you read ff blogs....there are plenty of complaints about Horizon's Q400's. That is not to say that it doesn't
30 Wedgetail737 : The longest Q400 ride I had was SMF-BOI and I thought the ride was perfectly comfortable...it was all about the inflight service for me. But those th
31 Wedgetail737 : I would like to make one more point. It is pretty obvious here that there are some here that are proud of their product.
32 Hatbutton : Yeah and QX chooses to instead invest in great customer service, inflight service that is second to none on regionals, and take part in the best FF p
33 EA CO AS :
34 Jetboy319 : I couldn't care less about seat recline and agree that it is over-rated as well. Seat-pitch is more important to me and with the extra seats being ad
35 Hatbutton : So at onyourhorizon.com it says that the 2 leases to South African Express have been finalized. So N607QX and N602QX will be leaving soon. N607QX is t
36 Wedgetail737 : I hope you're right about this. It will be cool to see them in those liveries. Hmmm...I wonder why AS didn't put these logos on their 734's.
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