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When Do KLM Get ERJ190's  
User currently offlineSandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 1094 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4518 times:
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Hi All,

I was just checking flights from EDI to AMS on KLM and noticed two things about the bookings;

1) That they list if the aircraft has winglets (737),
2) That they are starting an ERJ190 service.

I wonder why it mentions winglets as it's not high on many peoples radars (perhaps to indicate a new plane?). I had missed that KLM had ordered 190s. Does anyone know when we can see them in fleet (my flight was for next June).

Are these new birds or transfered from Air France. Are Air France and KLM even doing fleet share?

Sandyb123


Member of the mile high club
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7370 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4495 times:
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One of the MAN-AMS service is going to ERJ190s in December if I've got it right, but MAN is not going to be one of it's first destinaitons.

User currently offlinePetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3363 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4483 times:

The first one is due to be delivered later this month, the second one a month later and the remaining 8 roughly every other month after that. The first photos of KLM's Embraer have already been taken in Brasil. Don't have time to look it up right now, but it's out there.


Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineSandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 1094 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4460 times:
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User currently offlineAirbuster From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 441 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4418 times:



Quoting Sandyb123 (Thread starter):
) That they are starting an ERJ190 service.

not to be nagging, but just for info: the embraer 190 is not an ERJ series, embraer doesn't consider it a pure regional jet, it's an E series so it's just called E-190.

Quoting Sandyb123 (Reply 3):

Where did you get that picture from?

Anyways delivery crew is going to pick it up as we speek i believe and first touchdown at AMS should be on the 10th of November. Rego will be PH-EZA and number 2 is being built.

First destinations will be ZRH/GVA/CPH/MUC/EDI/MAN/ and whatever route they want to prove it on......it will have leather seats opposed to the rest of the KLM/KLC fleet, with a divider curtain between economy and europe select, giving the select pax a more personal space. 100 seats, and well what other info do you want to hear? they will eventually replace all the F100's with the Tay 620 engines.

rgds

AB



FLY FOKKER JET LINE!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25106 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4409 times:



Quoting Sandyb123 (Thread starter):
wonder why it mentions winglets as it's not high on many peoples radars (perhaps to indicate a new plane?)

There are separate IATA codes for 737-700s and -800s with and without winglets, probably for operational reasons. KL schedules in their website probably just pick up the "winglets" reference from the schedule database.

73G - 737-700 (no winglets)
73W - 737-700 (winglets)
738 - 737-800 (no winglets)
73H - 737-800 (winglets)


User currently offlineVector From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 214 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4020 times:

HI

The first E190 for KLM in on delivery flight...

PH-EZA

http://www.airliners.net/photo/KLM-C...er-ERJ-190-100IGW-190AR/1420304/L/

PH-EZB is under final assembly.

regards
Vector


User currently onlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4313 posts, RR: 36
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3810 times:

KLM Cityhopper already made a big press thing about it yesterday that eventually all Fokkers will be replaced, as "they break down too often." I wonder if that was a good PR move, as some Fokkers will continue to be in their fleet for at least another 5 years.


nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineMANmatt From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 969 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3750 times:



Quoting David_itl (Reply 1):
One of the MAN-AMS service is going to ERJ190s in December if I've got it right, but MAN is not going to be one of it's first destinaitons.

Not too sure about that anymore. They were meant to be operating the KL1083/4 from the 29th December, however the timetable for the rest of the IATA winter timetable is showing 6 x 737s. KLM do chop and change this quite frequently so won't know for definite until nearer the time.

MM


User currently offlineAirbuster From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 441 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3719 times:

currently the first 3 E190's are scheduled for the following trips:

PH-EZA: MUC / ZRH / EDI

PH-EZB: ABZ / MAN / GVA

PH-EZC: FRA / STR / HAM

rgds

AB



FLY FOKKER JET LINE!
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7409 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3711 times:



Quoting Sandyb123 (Thread starter):
Are these new birds or transfered from Air France. Are Air France and KLM even doing fleet share?

Air France doen't operate "directly" the ERJ170/190. They are operated by its 100% subsidiary Regional Airlines.

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Photo © Remi Dallot
View Large View Medium
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Photo © Karl Nixon



All the aircraft orders are now placed by AF-KL for all the members of the group.
It is rumored that all those regional subsidiaries (Brit'Air, Regional Airlines, KLM CityHopper, etc ...) could me merged in a close future into a single common regional carrier.


User currently offlineDakota From Netherlands, joined Feb 2000, 148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3338 times:

Some more pictures of KLM's first E-190 can be found here:

http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?id=28431


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3310 times:

Can it operate to London City? If not, why not? Runway lenght, noise?

User currently offlineSandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 1094 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3272 times:
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Quoting Keesje (Reply 12):
Can it operate to London City? If not, why not? Runway lenght, noise?

The 170 is certified to operate out of LCY but not sure if anyone currently fly a 170 out of there??? I understand that the 190 will be certified too, although I read it will be with a reduced MTOW because of the length of LCY runway.

Sandyb123



Member of the mile high club
User currently offlineCrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1858 posts, RR: 42
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3200 times:
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I'll be looking forward to the delivery this afternoon. STA is 1600LT. I have an office with great view today so I hope I get to see her! Shame of the fokkers though, I always like the sight of them.


Nothing's worse then flying the same registration twice, except flying it 4 times..
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3125 times:



Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 14):
Shame of the fokkers though, I always like the sight of them.

It will be a while before they are all gone. The F100's are the first to go, and then the F70's. The last F100 will leave in 2015. The F70's will stay even longer, according to Michel Coumans (director of KLC).

http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?id=28450 (in Dutch)

What's interesting is that he says they are studying the MRJ as F70 replacement, even though the E170 is front runner in this respect. The Superjet and ARJ have no chance at KLC however. The F50's will most likely be gone before the F100's. They are studying the Q400 and ATR 72 as replacement, as they want a larger aircraft to replace the F50's.

I wonder if these aircraft are also considered to replace the F70. I personally would love to see a MRJ order though, just for some diversity.



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User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3096 times:



Quoting Kappel (Reply 15):
What's interesting is that he says they are studying the MRJ as F70 replacement, even though the E170 is front runner in this respect. The Superjet and ARJ have no chance at KLC however. The F50's will most likely be gone before the F100's. They are studying the Q400 and ATR 72 as replacement, as they want a larger aircraft to replace the F50's.

I wonder if these aircraft are also considered to replace the F70. I personally would love to see a MRJ order though, just for some diversity.

The advantage of the MRJ is the newer technology and that is possible more efficient than the E170. The question is: Are the advantages of the MRJ big enough to justify a new type to the fleet. Maybe at a later date a larger MRJ can replace the E190, too.

As a fan of props I am looking forward to either the Q400 or ATR 72 in KLM colors, will be a great looking aircraft either way.

I also hope for the MRJ as a F70 replacement, it would be a huge success for Mitsubishi to win an European airline and new player on the field is always welcome  Smile



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3167 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3053 times:



Quoting Kappel (Reply 15):
he F50's will most likely be gone before the F100's. They are studying the Q400 and ATR 72 as replacement, as they want a larger aircraft to replace the F50's.

A bit of nitpicking, but what I understood was:

The choice for modern turboprop aircraft is limited: ATR 42, ATR 72, Q400. As the ATR 42 is too small for our needs, we have no choice then to order an aircraft larger than the F50.

Quoting Kappel (Reply 15):
I wonder if these aircraft are also considered to replace the F70. I personally would love to see a MRJ order though, just for some diversity.

I won't be surprised if some routes currently operated by F70 aircraft will become turboprop routes in the future. Currently, F70s are used throughout the network. The shortest routes (BRU, DUS, NWI) see the F70, but the aircraft is also used on longer routes like TLL and RIX. On the short routes, a Q400 or ATR72 can do the job just as good, while a jet has a considerable flight time advantages on sectors like AMS-TLL.


User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3032 times:



Quoting Joost (Reply 17):
The choice for modern turboprop aircraft is limited: ATR 42, ATR 72, Q400. As the ATR 42 is too small for our needs, we have no choice then to order an aircraft larger than the F50.

I just re-read the statement and I believe you are absolutely correct. What may be interesting is that the timeline allows the ATR72-600 to be considered.

Quoting Joost (Reply 17):
On the short routes, a Q400 or ATR72 can do the job just as good, while a jet has a considerable flight time advantages on sectors like AMS-TLL.

Agreed, a prop cannot replace the F70 on all sectors. But especially the Q400 can replace the F70 on some longer sectors as well, but indeed, not TLL or RIX

Quoting Columba (Reply 16):
ATR 72 in KLM colors

KLM Exel operated the ATR 42 in KL colours, so that gives you a good idea how the ATR 72 would look like. But IMHO any aircraft looks great in KL's livery  Wink

Quoting Columba (Reply 16):
Are the advantages of the MRJ big enough to justify a new type to the fleet.

Indeed, not just a new frame (composite fuselage?), also a new engine (The E190 has GE engines, like all of KL's fleet except the Fokkers). The question is indeed, will the MRJ be THAT more efficient on the short sections flown by the KLC fleet.



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User currently onlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2431 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2866 times:



Quoting Kappel (Reply 18):
KLM Exel operated the ATR 42 in KL colours, so that gives you a good idea how the ATR 72 would look like.

Maybe this helps as well . . . :

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Photo © Howard Chaloner




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User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25106 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2852 times:



Quoting Joost (Reply 17):
The choice for modern turboprop aircraft is limited: ATR 42, ATR 72, Q400. As the ATR 42 is too small for our needs, we have no choice then to order an aircraft larger than the F50.

ATR has been looking at a 90-seat turboprop. Following from current Aviation Week magazine.

ATR is holding talks with engine makers about a 90-seat turboprop, and early indications are some of the stretch performance targets can be met. Those include the ability to climb to 20,000 ft. within 13 min., 8 min. faster than the existing model and a cruise at 320-330 kt., while reducing specific fuel consumption by around 20% from current aircraft. At least one engine supplier has indicated it can deliver that the required performance around 2013-14. ATR also sees composite content on the aircraft growing to 30%. The new turboprop has not yet been launched and wouldn’t be fielded until after 2015.


User currently offline744 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2724 times:

Does KLM E190 have perosonal TV's in every seat? How many total lav's do these aircraft have?
Rgds,
744


User currently offlineLarspl From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2691 times:

2 lavs

No ptv's at all



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User currently offlineJelle From Netherlands, joined Oct 2006, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2530 times:

Only noticed when looking at the pic above, why don't the KLC aircraft carry names like the KL aircraft? Stupid but I never noticed. For the rest the plane looks great! Are there any pictures yet of the ERJ at AMS?

User currently offlineJelle From Netherlands, joined Oct 2006, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2385 times:

Ok, managed to find them myself: http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/pictures/e-190/klm.asp

User currently offlineMcSteve From Netherlands, joined Jul 2005, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2283 times:



Quoting Airbuster (Reply 9):
PH-EZA: MUC / ZRH / EDI

thanks for that, I just checked my flight to ZRH and it seems that i'm on the KLM flight from AMS to ZRH on 20th of December with a E190:D



life is too short to drink bad wine
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