Sandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 869 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3760 times:
Hi All,
I was just checking flights from EDI to AMS on KLM and noticed two things about the bookings;
1) That they list if the aircraft has winglets (737),
2) That they are starting an ERJ190 service.
I wonder why it mentions winglets as it's not high on many peoples radars (perhaps to indicate a new plane?). I had missed that KLM had ordered 190s. Does anyone know when we can see them in fleet (my flight was for next June).
Are these new birds or transfered from Air France. Are Air France and KLM even doing fleet share?
Petertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3231 posts, RR: 13 Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3725 times:
The first one is due to be delivered later this month, the second one a month later and the remaining 8 roughly every other month after that. The first photos of KLM's Embraer have already been taken in Brasil. Don't have time to look it up right now, but it's out there.
not to be nagging, but just for info: the embraer 190 is not an ERJ series, embraer doesn't consider it a pure regional jet, it's an E series so it's just called E-190.
Anyways delivery crew is going to pick it up as we speek i believe and first touchdown at AMS should be on the 10th of November. Rego will be PH-EZA and number 2 is being built.
First destinations will be ZRH/GVA/CPH/MUC/EDI/MAN/ and whatever route they want to prove it on......it will have leather seats opposed to the rest of the KLM/KLC fleet, with a divider curtain between economy and europe select, giving the select pax a more personal space. 100 seats, and well what other info do you want to hear? they will eventually replace all the F100's with the Tay 620 engines.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21488 posts, RR: 24 Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3651 times:
Quoting Sandyb123 (Thread starter): wonder why it mentions winglets as it's not high on many peoples radars (perhaps to indicate a new plane?)
There are separate IATA codes for 737-700s and -800s with and without winglets, probably for operational reasons. KL schedules in their website probably just pick up the "winglets" reference from the schedule database.
73G - 737-700 (no winglets)
73W - 737-700 (winglets)
738 - 737-800 (no winglets)
73H - 737-800 (winglets)
MEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4117 posts, RR: 37 Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3052 times:
KLM Cityhopper already made a big press thing about it yesterday that eventually all Fokkers will be replaced, as "they break down too often." I wonder if that was a good PR move, as some Fokkers will continue to be in their fleet for at least another 5 years.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
MANmatt From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 969 posts, RR: 6 Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2992 times:
Quoting David_itl (Reply 1): One of the MAN-AMS service is going to ERJ190s in December if I've got it right, but MAN is not going to be one of it's first destinaitons.
Not too sure about that anymore. They were meant to be operating the KL1083/4 from the 29th December, however the timetable for the rest of the IATA winter timetable is showing 6 x 737s. KLM do chop and change this quite frequently so won't know for definite until nearer the time.
All the aircraft orders are now placed by AF-KL for all the members of the group.
It is rumored that all those regional subsidiaries (Brit'Air, Regional Airlines, KLM CityHopper, etc ...) could me merged in a close future into a single common regional carrier.
Sandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 869 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2514 times:
Quoting Keesje (Reply 12): Can it operate to London City? If not, why not? Runway lenght, noise?
The 170 is certified to operate out of LCY but not sure if anyone currently fly a 170 out of there??? I understand that the 190 will be certified too, although I read it will be with a reduced MTOW because of the length of LCY runway.
CrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1618 posts, RR: 42 Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2442 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW CHAT OPERATOR
I'll be looking forward to the delivery this afternoon. STA is 1600LT. I have an office with great view today so I hope I get to see her! Shame of the fokkers though, I always like the sight of them.
Kappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 18 Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2367 times:
Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 14): Shame of the fokkers though, I always like the sight of them.
It will be a while before they are all gone. The F100's are the first to go, and then the F70's. The last F100 will leave in 2015. The F70's will stay even longer, according to Michel Coumans (director of KLC).
What's interesting is that he says they are studying the MRJ as F70 replacement, even though the E170 is front runner in this respect. The Superjet and ARJ have no chance at KLC however. The F50's will most likely be gone before the F100's. They are studying the Q400 and ATR 72 as replacement, as they want a larger aircraft to replace the F50's.
I wonder if these aircraft are also considered to replace the F70. I personally would love to see a MRJ order though, just for some diversity.
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 6799 posts, RR: 5 Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2338 times:
Quoting Kappel (Reply 15): What's interesting is that he says they are studying the MRJ as F70 replacement, even though the E170 is front runner in this respect. The Superjet and ARJ have no chance at KLC however. The F50's will most likely be gone before the F100's. They are studying the Q400 and ATR 72 as replacement, as they want a larger aircraft to replace the F50's.
I wonder if these aircraft are also considered to replace the F70. I personally would love to see a MRJ order though, just for some diversity.
The advantage of the MRJ is the newer technology and that is possible more efficient than the E170. The question is: Are the advantages of the MRJ big enough to justify a new type to the fleet. Maybe at a later date a larger MRJ can replace the E190, too.
As a fan of props I am looking forward to either the Q400 or ATR 72 in KLM colors, will be a great looking aircraft either way.
I also hope for the MRJ as a F70 replacement, it would be a huge success for Mitsubishi to win an European airline and new player on the field is always welcome
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
Joost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3128 posts, RR: 4 Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2295 times:
Quoting Kappel (Reply 15): he F50's will most likely be gone before the F100's. They are studying the Q400 and ATR 72 as replacement, as they want a larger aircraft to replace the F50's.
A bit of nitpicking, but what I understood was:
The choice for modern turboprop aircraft is limited: ATR 42, ATR 72, Q400. As the ATR 42 is too small for our needs, we have no choice then to order an aircraft larger than the F50.
Quoting Kappel (Reply 15): I wonder if these aircraft are also considered to replace the F70. I personally would love to see a MRJ order though, just for some diversity.
I won't be surprised if some routes currently operated by F70 aircraft will become turboprop routes in the future. Currently, F70s are used throughout the network. The shortest routes (BRU, DUS, NWI) see the F70, but the aircraft is also used on longer routes like TLL and RIX. On the short routes, a Q400 or ATR72 can do the job just as good, while a jet has a considerable flight time advantages on sectors like AMS-TLL.
Kappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 18 Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2274 times:
Quoting Joost (Reply 17): The choice for modern turboprop aircraft is limited: ATR 42, ATR 72, Q400. As the ATR 42 is too small for our needs, we have no choice then to order an aircraft larger than the F50.
I just re-read the statement and I believe you are absolutely correct. What may be interesting is that the timeline allows the ATR72-600 to be considered.
Quoting Joost (Reply 17): On the short routes, a Q400 or ATR72 can do the job just as good, while a jet has a considerable flight time advantages on sectors like AMS-TLL.
Agreed, a prop cannot replace the F70 on all sectors. But especially the Q400 can replace the F70 on some longer sectors as well, but indeed, not TLL or RIX
KLM Exel operated the ATR 42 in KL colours, so that gives you a good idea how the ATR 72 would look like. But IMHO any aircraft looks great in KL's livery
Quoting Columba (Reply 16): Are the advantages of the MRJ big enough to justify a new type to the fleet.
Indeed, not just a new frame (composite fuselage?), also a new engine (The E190 has GE engines, like all of KL's fleet except the Fokkers). The question is indeed, will the MRJ be THAT more efficient on the short sections flown by the KLC fleet.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21488 posts, RR: 24 Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2094 times:
Quoting Joost (Reply 17): The choice for modern turboprop aircraft is limited: ATR 42, ATR 72, Q400. As the ATR 42 is too small for our needs, we have no choice then to order an aircraft larger than the F50.
ATR has been looking at a 90-seat turboprop. Following from current Aviation Week magazine.
ATR is holding talks with engine makers about a 90-seat turboprop, and early indications are some of the stretch performance targets can be met. Those include the ability to climb to 20,000 ft. within 13 min., 8 min. faster than the existing model and a cruise at 320-330 kt., while reducing specific fuel consumption by around 20% from current aircraft. At least one engine supplier has indicated it can deliver that the required performance around 2013-14. ATR also sees composite content on the aircraft growing to 30%. The new turboprop has not yet been launched and wouldn’t be fielded until after 2015.
Jelle From Netherlands, joined Oct 2006, 36 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1772 times:
Only noticed when looking at the pic above, why don't the KLC aircraft carry names like the KL aircraft? Stupid but I never noticed. For the rest the plane looks great! Are there any pictures yet of the ERJ at AMS?
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