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SJU Why A US Domestic Destination?  
User currently offlineDALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1689 posts, RR: 7
Posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8755 times:

Whilst reading another topic about A330's being used on US domestic runs, more than once SJU is mentioned.
Could somebody please explain me why SJU is 'technically' a US destination as SJU is clearly not in the USA.

Perhaps it's a dumb question, but hey, we all learn by the day Big grin


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84 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11632 posts, RR: 61
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8754 times:

Well, respectfully, yes, it is somewhat of a dumb question - since the U.S. most certainly IS is the United States of America, and has been since Puerto Rico became a U.S. possession in 1898.

User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8733 times:

Although not a State, Puerto Rico is a self-governing Commonwealth, and unincorporated territory, of the United States.

User currently offlineCharles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1331 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8716 times:



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 2):
Although not a State, Puerto Rico is a self-governing Commonwealth, and unincorporated territory, of the United States.

Yup, that's why when I fly home to visit my parents I don't need a passport or go through immigration. Also why US-based airlines can fly onwards from SJU to other destinations in Lat Am and the Caribbean without the need to apply for 5th freedom rights.


User currently offlineDALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1689 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8708 times:



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 2):
Although not a State, Puerto Rico is a self-governing Commonwealth, and unincorporated territory, of the United States

Ahhh, didn't know that  Smile
I knew for sure that it wasn't one of the States I was left wondering.
Thanks for clearing up!

Quoting Commavia (Reply 1):
Well, respectfully, yes, it is somewhat of a dumb question - since the U.S. most certainly IS is the United States of America, and has been since Puerto Rico became a U.S. possession in 1898.

Didn't know that, although I'm always quite interested in history. Somehow I must have missed this.  Smile

But I'm sure there are more people with the same question



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User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3435 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8668 times:



Quoting DALCE (Reply 4):
Didn't know that, although I'm always quite interested in history. Somehow I must have missed this.

It was part of the settlement after the Spanish-American war. If you visit Puerto Rico you will see it really is a special place. Spanish is the 1st language. It is culturally very Latin America, but at the same itme very Americanized. Great island! Old San Juan is breathtaking.

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8587 times:



Quoting AA1818 (Reply 5):
If you visit Puerto Rico you will see it really is a special place. Spanish is the 1st language. It is culturally very Latin America, but at the same itme very Americanized.

Same can be said for much of New York City!  Wink



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2226 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8573 times:

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 5):
If you visit Puerto Rico you will see it really is a special place. Spanish is the 1st language. It is culturally very Latin America, but at the same itme very Americanized. Great island! Old San Juan is breathtaking.

I agree 100%. In many ways, Puerto Rico combines the best of the US with the best of Europe - friendly people, beautiful scenery, including El Yunque, the only "National Rain Forest" in the USA, Old San Juan, with 500 year old buildings and cobblestone streets, and El Morro, the massive fort that guards San Juan Harbor.

Puerto Rico is unlike any other part of the USA. I've been there twice, and I hope to go back soon  Smile

[Edited 2008-11-04 06:36:51]


Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8373 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8472 times:

Quoting DALCE (Reply 4):
Ahhh, didn't know that
I knew for sure that it wasn't one of the States I was left wondering.
Thanks for clearing up!

I see you're Dutch. As a comparison, Puerto Rico to the US very much like Curacao or St. Maarten are to the Netherlands.

[Edited 2008-11-04 07:10:55]

User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 844 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8471 times:



Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 7):
with 500 year old buildings and cobblestone streets

Ever go to St. Augustine, FL???


User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 937 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8301 times:

The interesting thing to me is that United considers SJU an international destination when calling phone reservations. I don't get it at all????

User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8216 times:



Quote:
The interesting thing to me is that United considers SJU an international destination when calling phone reservations. I don't get it at all????

Because of the complexity of getting phone lines to the island. Same with the U.S. Virgin Islands.

All Puerto Ricans are technically American citizens, with the right to move to any of the 50 American states, and all American citizens are free to move to Puerto Rico.

As a self-governing Commonwealth, Puerto Ricans do not have voting representation in the U.S. Congress, but they also do not pay federal income tax.

There are three proposals for the future of Puerto Rico - full statehood, full independence, and the status quo. Currently, the group that likes the status quo holds a plurality over the other two groups. With its unique culture and history, Puerto Ricans like being American citizens in their own unique way.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8212 times:



Quoting Joeljack (Reply 10):
The interesting thing to me is that United considers SJU an international destination when calling phone reservations. I don't get it at all????

Very true! Same thing when I call about a flight to St. Thomas or St. Croix.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2226 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8133 times:



Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 9):
Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 7):
with 500 year old buildings and cobblestone streets

Ever go to St. Augustine, FL???

I have, actually, and I enjoyed it  Smile I think Castillo de San Marcos is Florida's most under rated tourist destination.

However, the historic neighborhood of San Juan is much larger than the historic neighborhood in St. Augustine, and far more vibrant after dark.

The historic neighborhood in St. Augustine feels like a "living history re enactment". Old San Juan, however, feels more like Europe, with people actually living, drinking, and doing business in buildings that happen to be several hundred years old.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7545 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8057 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 11):
As a self-governing Commonwealth, Puerto Ricans do not have voting representation in the U.S. Congress, but they also do not pay federal income tax.

However they can vote in the Primaries

Here are other US territories

Unincorportated organized territories
Puerto Rico
Guam
Northern Mariana Islands
U.S. Virgin Islands

Unincorporated unorganized territories
American Samoa (does have a government, but technically unorganized)
Howland Island
Jarvis Island
Johnston Atoll
Kingman Reef
Bajo Nuevo Bank
Serranilla Bank
Midway Island
Navassa Island (supposidly Haiti tries to claim this)
Wake Atoll (Marshall Islands try to claim this)

There is also a special kind of unincorporated unorganized territory: Certain parcels in foreign countries held by lease, such as military bases, depending on the terms of a lease, treaty, or status of forces agreement with the host country.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8373 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8057 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 11):
Quote:
The interesting thing to me is that United considers SJU an international destination when calling phone reservations. I don't get it at all????
Because of the complexity of getting phone lines to the island. Same with the U.S. Virgin Islands.

It is not that at all. UA considers it an international destination the same way CO considers Guam an international destination. It just represents the terms by which flights are operate. It has nothing to do with the geo-political standing in regards to the US.
In strictly political terms however, in the US Virgin Islands you need to clear immigration and customs on departure even though it is US territory. That is because of the nature of the islands which makes them difficult and/or expensive to guard against illegal entry. The US government has determined that it is more cost effective to process every departing passenger rather than prevent illegals from landing on the island.


User currently offlineAllegiantAir From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1733 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7877 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 14):
U.S. Virgin Islands

Once I flew on SY SXM-STT-MSP and we were able to do our customs and immigration stuff at STT. I never thought of that until the captain announced that on the plane...



Live to Fly.
User currently offlineCitrusCritter From Pitcairn Islands, joined May 2007, 1104 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7862 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 14):
Unincorportated organized territories
Puerto Rico
Guam
Northern Mariana Islands
U.S. Virgin Islands

Unincorporated unorganized territories
American Samoa (does have a government, but technically unorganized)
Howland Island
Jarvis Island
Johnston Atoll
Kingman Reef
Bajo Nuevo Bank
Serranilla Bank
Midway Island
Navassa Island (supposidly Haiti tries to claim this)
Wake Atoll (Marshall Islands try to claim this)

PR, Guam, the Northern Marianas, the US Virgin Islands, and American Samoa are those that have an actual territorial government and are permanently populated. The others are run from the Dept of the Interior and have no permanent population other than military fixtures.



TLH
User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7778 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 1):
Well, respectfully, yes, it is somewhat of a dumb question - since the U.S. most certainly IS is the United States of America, and has been since Puerto Rico became a U.S. possession in 1898.

I don't mean to be rude or anything, but would it not just simply have been easier to answer the question. After all, the poster in not American and I don't particularly see anything 'dumb' in it.


User currently offlineAFGMEL From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 744 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7725 times:

Indeed. If a pop quiz was held and compared the world history and geographic knowledge of the average American and the Average Dutch person, I know where my money would be.


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User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11632 posts, RR: 61
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7717 times:



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 18):
I don't mean to be rude or anything, but would it not just simply have been easier to answer the question. After all, the poster in not American and I don't particularly see anything 'dumb' in it.

It would. I meant no offense, and I'm sorry.

But I do have to wonder aloud if that same level of respect would have been given to an American asking a similar question regarding another country's territory? Food for thought.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13114 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7715 times:

Passangers on all flights departing to the USA mainland from Puerto Rico may have to show their Drivers License or other idenity document showing legal residency in the USA and it may be subject to checks by the ICE.
Puerto Rico has often been used by people from the Carribean region, especially the Dominican Republic, to enter the mainland USA. The USVI is also another back door entry for people to illegally enter the USA mainland, doing so via the British VI's. Travel for USA Citizens or legal residents do not have to have passports (or soon the passport-card) to Puerto Rico, USVI and the other US territories listed above.


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7675 times:



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 2):
Although not a State, Puerto Rico is a self-governing Commonwealth, and unincorporated territory, of the United States.

Most mainland American's would like it to be a state, yet the Puerto Ricans would disagree.

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 11):
There are three proposals for the future of Puerto Rico - full statehood, full independence, and the status quo. Currently, the group that likes the status quo holds a plurality over the other two groups. With its unique culture and history, Puerto Ricans like being American citizens in their own unique way.




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User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7674 times:

Puerto Rico - Inside U.S. immigration jurisdiction and U.S. customs zone.
U.S. Virgin Islands* - Inside U.S. immigration jurisdiction, outside U.S. customs zone.
Guam# - Inside U.S. immigration jurisdiction, outside U.S. customs zone.
Northern Mariana Islands - Outside U.S. immigration jurisdiction and U.S. customs zone.
American Samoa - Outside U.S. immigration jurisdiction and U.S. customs zone.

*Immigration check performed on departure from USVI to US and Puerto Rico due to special USVI immigration status for BVI nationals coming directly from BVI.

#Immigration check performed on departure from Guam to US due to Guam Visa Waiver Program (GVWP) which is only valid for Guam.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8373 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7641 times:



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 21):
Travel for USA Citizens or legal residents do not have to have passports (or soon the passport-card) to Puerto Rico, USVI and the other US territories listed above.

Yes we do. I'm a legal US resident (not a citizen), and I had to show both my passport and proof of residency in the US ("Green Card") before leaving STT. I know that technically, once one has a green card that is the only document one needs to present in order to enter the US but try to tell an Immigration officer you forgot your passport at home and the reaction won't be pleasant, not to mention the interrogation by the secondary inspection  Smile


25 CitrusCritter : I think that is a vast oversimplification. The opinion in Florida amongst Puerto Ricans living here and non-Puerto Ricans is widely varied.
26 AA767400 : You can't compare cosmopolitan San Juan with sleepy St. Augustine. Unless of course you can't fly, and can only drive to your destination.
27 USAirALB : I've would love it to be a state. After typing my other post, I searched 51'st state on Wiki and its chock full of info
28 MoMan : It's actually a really good deal for the Puerto Ricans to get US citizenship, protection, and benefits but not have to pay federal taxes. I would be
29 TDubJFK : WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT ????!! My god, where do you get your "information" from?
30 Woodydfw : I am a citizen of the U.S. and have never needed a Passport to travel to Puerto Rico, perhaps it is differen't for a U.S. legal resident.
31 Jetdeltamsy : Because we "own" PR. It's part of our nation and It's a beautiful place. You should go there sometime.
32 57AZ : There is some question as to the validity of the Passport Card regarding air transportation. As a Passport Acceptance Agent, the public information th
33 Phatfarmlines : LTBEWR has a very good point here, and will lead me to believe that at some point in the future, PR may have to add formal immigration/customs checks
34 Vikkyvik : And most of Southern California Is that a fact? I'd wager a lot of Americans don't particularly care whether Puerto Rico became a state or its own co
35 DALCE : Thanks AirNZ. The thing is that in history class you learn of so many things just a little bit. that I even don't remember if this is told at all. (
36 ADent : Huh? There are several locations of Rain Forests in the US in National Forests and National Parks. Olympic National Park is probably the most famous.
37 DALCA : San Juan was even sacked a couple of times by the Dutch, only the old fortress was left standing at the entrence of the harbour. Where haven't we don
38 Airbazar : I'd say both US and PR benefit from this arrangement. Not paying taxes also means that these US citizens have no representation in the US government.
39 ReguPilot : The thing is that there is a massive international customs in every port of entry. Luckily, legal US travelers are not routed to that huge side of SJ
40 Rojo : And if you buy an airplane ticket from the Mainland US to SJU, see your fare and tax calculations... I just bought a flight FLL-SJU-FLL and got much
41 DALCA : Need to add that the time when I went with US to SJU for a week I had a hell of a good time in the old city. I found a place which served Corona's for
42 Daviation : Quoting AA1818 (Reply 5): If you visit Puerto Rico you will see it really is a special place. Spanish is the 1st language. It is culturally very Latin
43 FlyASAGuy2005 : If you like that, St. Thomas's Main Street is awesome. Agreed! I didn't my passport once when I was leaving St. Thomas heading back to Atlanta and th
44 WepaMan : Puerto Rico is a great place to Relax, Have fun, with a vast of History to be encounter as you travel around the island... Do you homework before you
45 Flighty : Just to echo the above, US flights to SJU and Hawaii are pretty much the same thing. But Puerto Rico is poorer than the states of the United States. C
46 787KQ : Why "technically"? In the long ago past, PR and the VI were considered international when calling their reservation desks. Many airlines changed that
47 BA : Yes, but they aren't required to have a visa.
48 AirframeAS : It is a US Territory so therefore, it is. They are still American citizens. It would be nice to see it a state, but I never understood exactly why th
49 BA : It's an unincorporated territory, therefore it is not a part of the US, but a possession of the US. Only incorporated territories are an integral par
50 AirNZ : Oh! no need for any apology Commavia, and I honestly didn't really see any offence in it. However, I don't see the second part as being at all valid
51 AA767400 : Sure did! I only see three 757s on the JFK-SJU route for next year. This is after the A300 retirement. Sacked twice, and did not last long. Disease a
52 Argonaut : So the ultimate anti-colonialist country suspends the anti-colonialist rules for its own colonies. Go figure.
53 787KQ : I believe BVIslanders have right of abode in the UK and as such are covered under the visa waiver program and there is no longer a special dispensati
54 Post contains links BA : British Nationals that are not British Citizens are not covered under the Visa Waiver Program (VWP). However, BVI residents that are British National
55 TN757Flyer : Given how the United States ranks in education among other industrialized western nations, I would not bet the farm on the average American being abl
56 FrmrCAPCADET : Is Puerto Rico part of the US? kind of like what is 'is'. A great place to visit. State versus continuing as Commonwealth? Sometimes the two groups ar
57 Flighty : Agreed, I went to PR for the first time recently was amazed at its beauty and also the different vibe, American yet also maybe "retro?." As a big fan
58 Cubsrule : I'm not sure what makes you say this. If a majority of Puerto Ricans wanted statehood, they'd likely get it. There are certainly legitimate reasons t
59 AA767400 : American, Latin, and European for sure. Cuban is a given since both Cuba and Puerto Rico were the last two Latin American colonies Spain had. Many Cu
60 Post contains links WepaMan : Most Puerto Rican would not like to be label as "Cuban", But I do understand what you are trying to said. As Puerto Rican I am very proud of my Spani
61 Post contains links 787KQ : " target=_blank>http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/bri...lity/ Interestingly, though the US booklet states what you say, the British site says this: "O
62 AirframeAS : Yes it is. They still pay US taxes and use the US dollar. I believe ReguPilot would back me up on this since he is an A.net member.
63 Cubsrule : As Bill Clinton once said, it depends on your definition of "part." Puerto Rico is a US possession. It is not, however, a United State (for it is not
64 ReguPilot : Hello Marty! Nice to read you here. Turns out, the only people in Puerto Rico who pay Federal Taxes is people who have some kind of income from a US
65 Post contains links Ytib : Great summary ReguPilot. One thing to add is that Puerto Rico also has a Resident Commissioner to the US House. While they do not get a vote on the fl
66 MotorHussy : You didn't seem particularly respectful at all, in fact, quite the contrary.
67 Post contains links BA : Puerto Rico is not classified as part of the United States, it is classified as a possession of the United States. I gave a description of the classi
68 MotorHussy : It's not classified as part of the U.S. because it's not a State of the Union, there are only 50 of these. In plebiscites to vote on potential stateh
69 Post contains links BA : This is only part of the picture. Incorporated territories are also a part of the US, it's not just limited to statehood. When Alaska and Hawaii were
70 MotorHussy : Which is where my mother comes from, so I have a little first hand knowledge. Interesting to see the IRS's use of possession, I've learned something,
71 ReguPilot : 100% Right! Puertorricans are required by Federal Law to pay Social Security and Medicare funds, which means we also get the benefits that comes with
72 FlyDreamliner : St. Maarten would be a good example, however Curacao, as part of the Netherlands Antilles, is sort of more independent from Holland than Puerto Rico
73 DocLightning : You call that Spanish? I call that "Boricua Gobbledygook." For a while, I was trying to work with the U.S. Department of State to arrange an emergenc
74 BA : From an airline's perspective, you're right, Puerto Rico is very much a domestic destination since Puerto Rico is both within US immigration jurisdic
75 AirframeAS : Read ReguPilots summary in Reply 64. Thank you, DN! Good to see ya, thanks for the briefing and history lesson. Now wanna fix my laptop?? I know you
76 DocLightning : So as a U.S. Citizen, if I moved my residence to PR, would I lose my right to vote in an election? Seems a bit odd...
77 Post contains links BA : I did and I later responded to him. No, your voting rights would be covered under the Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act. You'd vote
78 Cubsrule : You've confused me... I said "it's not a state." You said I'm wrong. Regupilot said "it's not a state." You said "thank you." Could you clarify?
79 Prinair : Not everyone in Puerto Rico speaks "Boricua Gobbledygook", there are plenty of educated people that speak proper Spanish and as such I find your comm
80 DocLightning : It's a joke, dude. I lived in Spanish Harlem for three years. I speak Spanish with an Iberian accent. Do you know how much ribbing from Boricuas and
81 AA767400 : Not a joke at all. Oh, so that gives you full insight on Puerto Rico because you lived in Spanish Harlem? Well now I know why you think the that way.
82 Cubsrule : I've traveled extensively in the Spanish speaking world, and I do think that Puerto Ricans, as a group, are some of the most difficult to understand
83 WepaMan : Let me see, if you relocated from New York to North Carolina, can you still vote for NY state Representation? ... NO, just for President and VP + Nor
84 FrmrCAPCADET : If there is a linguist on line details may need editing. Language evolves at a far more rapid pace that most people realize. As a rough guide, people
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