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Will AA Ever Serve Amsterdam  
User currently offlineLONGisland89 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 736 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6964 times:

Seems like quite a big gap in their European service. Maybe not in the near future due to fleet constraits but maybe in the next few years?

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1691 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6752 times:

I expect not as AA serves BRU and LON very well.
For cargo these gateways are used with great success, AA is in the top 10 of FreightForwarding Airlines.
Given the fact that the Dutch government implements extra taxes and higher costs I think AMS is not an interesting destination to serve directly.

Nevertheless it would be great to see an AA 777 at an AMS gate Big grin



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User currently offlineFrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1617 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6698 times:



Quoting DALCE (Reply 1):
Nevertheless it would be great to see an AA 777 at an AMS gate

Yep. But I'm also prepared to wait a couple of years to see an AA 787-9 here!  cloudnine 

Only in my dreams however  Sad The chances seeing AA metal (or CFRP) in AMS are nil. Has one AA CEO not stated that AMS will never figure in their plans as long as he was in charge? Must have been some years ago though.



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User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3807 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6534 times:
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I believe that Open Skies, a BA subsidiary operating B757 aircraft across the pond, serves AMS.

Quoting Frigatebird (Reply 2):
a couple of years

A couple of years? Four years a least, if not five. American won't receive its first 787 before 2012, and with the first flight delayed again till sometimes in 2009, I wouldn't be surprised if in the summer of 2012 there is still no 787 in AA's fleet.

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineRutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3005 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6475 times:
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Not a Oneworld gateway so no is the short answer i think!

Its AA/Ba to LHR and thence on an airbus to Amsterdam and i think that even Brussels may disappear soon as to current SN code share ends and SN snuggle into Lufthansa !

American will move to focus on on the UK (LHR and just maybe Manchester), Madrid for Oneworld connectivity and Paris and Frankfurt due to size of market potential.

Zurich/Dublin/Barcelona-ORD may remain where loads reasonable


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2926 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6359 times:

Maybe with a 757 from JFK, but I don't forsee a 777 anytime soon.

User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6331 times:

I find it interesting that KLM serves the AMS-DFW route, yet AA did not retaliate to drive them out...er, sorry "compete" with them.  duck 

In all seriousness, with AMS being such a SkyTeam hub, it must be a tough nut to crack. Connections via LHR would apparently take care of any passenger wanting to connect to AMS.



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User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7626 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6246 times:



Quoting Rutankrd (Reply 4):
Zurich/Dublin/Barcelona-ORD may remain where loads reasonable

AA doesnt fly ZRH/BCN-ORD. I doubt they will either.

The next routes I would look from from AA to Europe would be:

DFW-MAD
MIA-Italy

and maybe one or two more from JFK and ORD (but no specific guesses).



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User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6226 times:

I can definately see AA serving AMS from JFK with a 757 in the near future.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineGuoTai From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6219 times:

It's just an impression, maybe its from good space planning and design that gives it, but whenever I fly into BRU I always feel like there is noone else there.... and often have seen the AA 767 there and wondered why it wasn't in AMS

User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25374 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6190 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):
I can definately see AA serving AMS from JFK with a 757 in the near future.

I wouldn't count on it. AMS is not a big origin-destination market and what traffic does exist is lower-yield than O&D traffic to/from LHR/FRA/CDG. A good indication is that KL was one of the first major European carriers to drop First Class service at least 15 years ago if not more.

Without significant feeder traffic beyond AMS (which AA can already serve via other gateways) I think AA can find more profitable new destinations than AMS.

It's basically the same reason why AC doesn't serve AMS. They tried seasonal summer-only service for 2 or 3 years but that wasn't profitable.


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6148 times:

Been wondering about it for yrs. AA would need to collect about 1000 passengers a week in the US to start. In fierce competition with US, UA, DL, NW/KL/AF, CO, BA, LH and probably some more. Finding a similar number of Europeans to get to DFW is obviously easier.. KLM A332's can carry a lot of cargo too to DFW.



AA Astrojet at AMS, 1971..


User currently offlineRutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3005 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6052 times:
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Quote:

AA doesnt fly ZRH/BCN-ORD. I doubt they will either.

The next routes I would look from from AA to Europe would be:

DFW-MAD
MIA-Italy

and maybe one or two more from JFK and ORD (but no specific guesses).

Thought they did serve Zurich but if they don't any longer just proves the point that they are consolidating at Oneworld entry points- Heathrow/Madrid

As for Barcelona Yep it JFK as US entry but still two points within the Oneworld circle of influence !


User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25374 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6001 times:



Quoting Rutankrd (Reply 12):
Quote:

AA doesnt fly ZRH/BCN-ORD. I doubt they will either.

The next routes I would look from from AA to Europe would be:

DFW-MAD
MIA-Italy

and maybe one or two more from JFK and ORD (but no specific guesses).

Thought they did serve Zurich

AA has a daily 763 nonstop JFK-ZRH. The posting you referred to mentioned ORD-ZRH. AA previously had nonstops DFW-ZRH and ORD-ZRH but those were dropped around the time LX joined the Star Alliance and AA lost their codeshare feeder traffic via ZRH. They previously exchanged a lot of connecting traffic with LX (and previously Swissair). They also nad antitrust immunity with SR/LX.

JFK-ZRH has enough origin-destination traffic and significant high-yield business traffic to justify keeping that route.

About 20 years ago, sometime in the 1980s, AA also served GVA as a tag-on from their ORD-ZRH flight. GVA didn't last long, a year or so..


User currently offlineGsosbee From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6001 times:

Until the Dutch government relents on the ticket taxes I see people moving out - not in.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32807 posts, RR: 71
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5977 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 7):
The next routes I would look from from AA to Europe would be:

DFW-MAD
MIA-Italy

and maybe one or two more from JFK and ORD (but no specific guesses).

Next new routes will probably be 2 new JFK-Europe routes. I have no idea what they will be, but they will be within 757-range. Nice was supposed to launch last year and be announced alongside Moscow. Maybe that will be one.



a.
User currently offlineRutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3005 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5972 times:
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Viscount724 thanks for clarifying the Zurich offering so they use the JFK Oneworld connection point rather than Chicago.

I know they had an agreement with Swiss/Swissair in the past.

I think Oneworld really have missed out allowing Swiss to go to Lufthansa .


User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3958 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5891 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 6):
I find it interesting that KLM serves the AMS-DFW route, yet AA did not retaliate to drive them out...er, sorry "compete" with them. duck

Once they do, KLM might be saying bye-bye to DFW.

Thomas



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlinePSA727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 974 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5868 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 6):
I find it interesting that KLM serves the AMS-DFW route, yet AA did not retaliate to drive them out

Isn't this a heavy cargo route for KL? I really don't see AA flying to KL soon, even a 757 from
JFK. The future 757 routes out of JFK, IMO, would be to markets where there is a strong
One World presence/customer base. So destinations in the U.K. and Spain would be my
guess. There's already a lot of seats between AMS and JFK/EWR.



fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
User currently offlineJFKPurser From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 486 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4799 times:

AMS was one of the destinations mentioned at last year's Purser Conference. There has been frequesnt discussion of JFK-AMS 757 service once those planes are reconfigured.

User currently offlineCrAAzy From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 791 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4651 times:
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Between the economic downturn around the world, the Super 80 retirement push with new 737s coming online, and the A300 retirement schedule in 2009 I doubt we'll see many new routes from AA in 2009. The numbers just don't add.

I think we're more likely to see AA replace some European 763 destinations with multiple daily 757 flying. Example: 1 x daily 763 JFK-BCN could become 3 x daily JFK-BCN. This would allow more options, with the potential for better connections, and twice as many business class seats.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32807 posts, RR: 71
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4625 times:



Quoting CrAAzy (Reply 20):
Between the economic downturn around the world, the Super 80 retirement push with new 737s coming online, and the A300 retirement schedule in 2009 I doubt we'll see many new routes from AA in 2009. The numbers just don't add.

MD80 retirement will be slowing down as a result of the A300 retirement. Not as many MD80s will be leaving as planned.

Also, traffic to Latin America is up 12% this year and keeps growing. Time after time, Latin America-U.S. traffic proves that it is immune to economic downturn. This year is absolutely no exception. In fact, it's growing even faster than it has in the past few years.

Quoting CrAAzy (Reply 20):
I think we're more likely to see AA replace some European 763 destinations with multiple daily 757 flying. Example: 1 x daily 763 JFK-BCN could become 3 x daily JFK-BCN.

3x daily JFK-BCN?!? Never happening. JFK-BCN would likely become 1x 757. Less capacity, but that just improves yields.

Don't look for AA to replace lost capacity on routes that are downgraded to a 757 except for MAN and maybe DUB.



a.
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11648 posts, RR: 61
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4608 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
Don't look for AA to replace lost capacity on routes that are downgraded to a 757 except for MAN and maybe DUB.

Although in the case of MAN, one has to now wonder if AA is reevaluating its scheduling decisions in that market given the news in the last 24 hours that bmi will be pulling out of the MAN-U.S. market. That is several thousand seats per week to the United States that will be going away, including hundreds in the nonstop ORD-MAN market directly up against AA.

With bmi gone (and even with bmi still there), I think there is no question that this market can support a daily 763 from AA, but now that bmi is leaving, I wonder if AA will follow-through with the 757 downgrade? Maybe they will just end up leaving the route as a 763, plus maybe add a 757 to JFK to fill the void left by BA?


User currently offlineCrAAzy From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 791 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4426 times:
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Quoting Commavia (Reply 22):
MD80 retirement will be slowing down as a result of the A300 retirement. Not as many MD80s will be leaving as planned.

Outlined in previous thread AA plans to replace A300 flying with 757s and 763s not MD80s or 738s. Does AA really intend to use MD80s to pick up capacity for 757 and 763 routes?

AA plans to continue capacity cuts in 2009 and MD80s will continue to leave the fleet 2009. The number and rate over the next year may vary some but the net effect is supposed to be more MD80s out of the fleet than 738s into the fleet is it not?

Quoting Commavia (Reply 22):
Also, traffic to Latin America is up 12% this year and keeps growing. Time after time, Latin America-U.S. traffic proves that it is immune to economic downturn. This year is absolutely no exception. In fact, it's growing even faster than it has in the past few years.

I'm sure you realize capacity and traffic are two completely different metrics. Is this 12% AA specific or Latin America in general? How does this general statement apply to AA's routes and route planning in 2009?

Latin America-U.S. traffic may have been "immune" in the past but the rapidly falling prices in commodities and strength of the U.S. dollar over the past six months may prove to be too much for our neighbors to the south to continue this trend. Global traffic is falling significantly and I doubt the trends with Latin America will be much different this time, but time will tell.


User currently offlineDivemaster08 From Cayman Islands, joined Jul 2008, 337 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4416 times:

I cant see AA doing this in the near future.
However I think that AA could/should serve more European Destinations.
A return to GLA would be good also (or go into EDI instead-suit me better actually)



My dream, is to fly, over the rainbow, so high!
25 Burnsie28 : AA publically said years ago that it would be a tough market to crack, especially with the current presense, I would say if AA ever did come, they mig
26 AA1818 : I would personally like to see AA link JFK or ORD with BUD (MA's hub). Also is there much traffic between the Canary Is. and the USA? If not AA could
27 AlitaliaMD11 : As mentioned already OpenSkies, a Brithsh Airways subsidiary, is currently flying AMS-JFK with a daily 757-200 flight. I don't think American would tr
28 ContinentalEWR : I doubt it. There is not much of a OneWorld presence at AMS in terms of connecting opportunities and the O&D market to AMS from the logical AA gateway
29 Burnsie28 : Well openskies isn't part of Oneworld and now mixed more so with L'Avion, also they are reducing the frequency on the AMS-JFK route. That and long es
30 Saxman66 : How can DL serve European destations like, Pisa, Stuttgart, Berlin, Kiev, Vienna, Prague, Nice, Lyon, Malaga and such, and AA can't serve AMS? I mean
31 TOLtommy : Dutch taxes are nothing compared to the UK.
32 LAXdude1023 : Even if AA started AMS, I doubt it would be from DFW. Probably from JFK. If AA did start DFW-AMS, KLM probably would back down. Unlike LHR and FRA, I
33 MAH4546 : If the 757 had the range, I bet AA would be all over JFK-BUD. When one factors in the connecting opportunities, there probably is enough traffic for
34 LONGisland89 : Exactly what I was thinking!
35 PSA727 : Because those markets have little competition (although I thought Vienna was going away). Now how many flights are there between JFK/EWR and AMS?
36 AQ737 : Many 757 routes within the U.S. can be operated by MD-80s and of course, 737s. For example, right now, AA operates LAX-ORD 9 times daily with 1 763,
37 Post contains images OwlEye : How are they doing?
38 Bobnwa : Since the European side supplies the greater percentage of the passengers on this route, as on most all Europe routes, AA would draw passengers away
39 DaufuskieGuy : so with Open Skies, LH could run a 330 ORD/IAD MAN (and then maybe on to FRA to increase utilization), correct? alternatively, will UA ever deploy th
40 FCO110 : This would really be too bad given that the connecting through BRU to europe is so easy with SN. Is it a done deal that codeshare will be gone? Flew
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