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US Airlines To Iraq: Post Iraq War  
User currently offlineSuper80DFW From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 1697 posts, RR: 11
Posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4239 times:

Could you see any airlines from the US flying to Iraq after the war is over? DL, JFK/ATL-SDA; UA, SFO-SDA? It would need some ULH equipment to fly nonstop, correct?


"Things change, friends leave, life doesn't stop for anybody." -- EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6132 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4239 times:



Quoting Super80DFW (Thread starter):
UA, SFO-SDA? It would need some ULH equipment to fly nonstop, correct?

I'll naver say never but I think it would be far more likely that UA would launch IAD-SDA then SFO-SDA. None of the routes you listed for DL or IAD-SDA would require ULH aircraft, SFO-SDA would require the 77L or 787 to operate.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineTwinOtter From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4239 times:



Quoting Super80DFW (Thread starter):
Could you see any airlines from the US flying to Iraq after the war is over?

Absolutely. Back in 2003, when people believed the U.S. had "won" something and all
the chips would fall our way, there was optomistic talk of air service to Baghdad.

Quoted material follows ...

COPYRIGHT 2003 The Commercial Appeal

Byline: James W. Brosnan

May 31--WASHINGTON--Northwest Airlines soon could receive government permission to begin service to Baghdad, following Friday's announcement the United States is ending its nearly 13-year ban on flights to Iraq.

If approved, Northwest would begin DC10 service an undetermined number of times a week from Detroit ...


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4239 times:



Quoting United1 (Reply 1):
I'll naver say never but I think it would be far more likely that UA would launch IAD-SDA then SFO-SDA. None of the routes you listed for DL or IAD-SDA would require ULH aircraft, SFO-SDA would require the 77L or 787 to operate.

I would think a 763ER can make all of the above. ATL may need a 77E though.



yep.
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8913 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4239 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3):

I would think a 763ER can make all of the above. ATL may need a 77E though.

ATL would need a 777 - a 767 can't do ATL-TLV, and ATL-SDA is even longer.


User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 4022 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4239 times:

Well I'll add my .2 into this hypothectical situation. I would say that IAH would be a candidate for the obvious reasons, but the big question is would CO be interested? If so more likely via EWR, would likely be CO's first choice, should the show any interest. Suffice it to say JFK/EWR, DTW, IAD would probably the first US markets service if such a service were to be launched. So, what about Iraqi Airways, what are their future plans with regards to fleet upgrades and new routes?

Thomas



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3663 times:

I don't see direct flights ever. Maybe UA982 IAD-KWI-SDA and UAL981 SDA-KWI-IAD. Whats next? Tehran  

No for real, I could see KWI-SDA-KWI since the plane sits in KWI for like 7 hours after it arrives from IAD. Or maybe even IAD-DXB-SDA-DXB-IAD. This would prolly not happen for another 5 years at best though.

UA 777 and 744 pilots carry SDA charts along with a few others though its just for maybe AMC flights and emergency diversions.

Here is how UA SOPs sorta words Iraq flights right now.
-As of right now NO UA plane is allowed to land within the confines of Iraq unless a ditching would be required if over water.-

Something along those lines.

Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 5):
So, what about Iraqi Airways, what are their future plans with regards to fleet upgrades and new routes?

http://www.iraqiairways.co.uk/en/main.asp

IIRC they have started flying a few 737-200s again along with Jupiter Air around Iraq and like DXB. I guess they wanted to buy 787s or A350s? Their website is not much help and does not have much info. Plus I guess they dumped their 767-200 a while back.

[Edited 2008-11-07 10:24:51]

User currently offlineSuper80DFW From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 1697 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3458 times:

UA would probably be the first to fly a N/S to Iraq. Is IAD-SDA out of UA's 767 range?


"Things change, friends leave, life doesn't stop for anybody." -- EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3430 times:



Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 7):
Is IAD-SDA out of UA's 767 range?

Way out...... The 767-322ER has about 12 hours aloft maybe with max fuel and a light payload.

Again, there would not be the demand for non-stop. The only way it could work is if they tied it in with either KWI or DXB. Heck, DXB and KWI load factors are not steller, so I doubt it would be any better going to SDA.


User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2185 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3416 times:



Quoting Super80DFW (Thread starter):
Could you see any airlines from the US flying to Iraq after the war is over?

No. There simply does not seem to be a big market. Think of how many other non-stop routes there are from the US to the Middle East at the moment (operated by US carriers).
This is assuming the war ends, and it is not going to happen tomorrow. 2010 is still over a year ahead, and 2010 of course is the most optimistic scenario, and then ending the war does not necessarily means that Iraq will be stable enough to the point of attracting foreign investors, in turn justifying a non-stop flight from the US.
Expect competition with foreign carriers (LH, BA, AF, EK) right away too. And no need of any special aircraft for any of them. An A319 may suffice.



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7364 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3399 times:
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No and no.

As stated above countless times, there is no market for a direct route from the US. From Europe perhaps. Still unlikely.


 twocents 

Off topic: Talk to me about the Middle East routes before the first Gulf War. Circa 1990.


User currently offlineSNCntry32 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3376 times:

Why not put a 787 on it ATL SDA? Northwest does have the rights...


Long Live Memphis!
User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7364 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3370 times:
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Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 11):
Why not put a 787 on it ATL SDA? Northwest does have the rights

Okay. In 2011?  Yeah sure


User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27316 posts, RR: 60
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3355 times:



Quoting FXramper (Reply 10):
As stated above countless times, there is no market for a direct route from the US. From Europe perhaps. Still unlikely.

I doubt we will see a US Airline anytime soon. The first routes other than the present ones will be Iraqi Airways to ATH and LGW. Their website has actually been updated in the last few weeks.


User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3348 times:



Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 11):

Why put a 787 on it ATL-SDA? So what if NW has the rights. No offese, thats just a waste of a 787.

Again..... the need for direct flights is not there. Just like UA3 now UA1003(I think) ORD-OGG-KOA-ORD. There is to little demand for ORD-KOA-ORD and ORD-OGG-ORD but put them together, you got like 90%+ load factors.

Look at it like this, It took about 10 or so years after the end of WWII to have US travel to Japan, Germany, and Italy to really pick up again. So............


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3300 times:



Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 4):
a 767 can't do ATL-TLV,

the 767 can and has done ATL-TLV RT. There were minimal (10 seat) payload restrictions. The route has very stong demand so the 777 works well and provides the needed cargo lift.

----

there absolutely will be a flight from the US to SDA. Any look at world history and airline schedules shows that war causes major disruption of people and many of those people have come to the US. Further, the US will play an active role in Iraq for years to come which will provide an opportunity for business and government travel.

I fully expect to see DL flying JFK-SDA at some point in the future. The only real question is when the security situation is stable enough and I expect that will happen within a year or so.


User currently offlineSuper80DFW From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 1697 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3176 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 15):

WorldTraveler seems to have the same beliefs as I do on the topic. The route wouldn't even be daily, but the flight could operate 3-4x weekly; whichever airline would take it.



"Things change, friends leave, life doesn't stop for anybody." -- EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
User currently offlineOcracoke From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 695 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3071 times:



Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 7):
UA would probably be the first to fly a N/S to Iraq. Is IAD-SDA out of UA's 767 range?

What is the current Iraqi/US air agreement?
AFAIK, under the old agreement, AA (TWA) and DL (PA) had rights to Bagdad. Any other US airline?


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3033 times:

The major issue with flying to Iraq right now (specifically Baghdad) is not just safety, but insurance costs which are extremely high at the moment.

Right now, scheduled service to Baghdad is limited to only a few carriers such as Iraqi Airways, Royal Jordanian, and Turkish Airlines.

The Kurdish regions in the north are more stable which is why Arbil is seeing some success in attracting air service.

Quoting FXramper (Reply 10):
As stated above countless times, there is no market for a direct route from the US. From Europe perhaps. Still unlikely.

Prior to the Gulf War, major European carriers such as British Airways, Air France, KLM, Lufthansa, Alitalia, and Swissair all used to serve Baghdad.

Iraqi Airways operated an extensive network throughout the Middle East, Europe, Asia, Africa, and South America. Long-haul destinations included Tokyo, Beijing, and Rio de Janeiro.

They had plans to launch scheduled flights to New York JFK but these never materialized although they did operate a few flights into New York, but not on a scheduled basis.

Quoting FXramper (Reply 10):
Off topic: Talk to me about the Middle East routes before the first Gulf War. Circa 1990.

The Arab carriers all served Baghdad including Saudi Arabian Airlines, Gulf Air, Kuwait Airways, MEA, Syrian Arab Airlines, EgyptAir, etc. Prior to and after the Iran-Iraq War (which lasted from 1980 to 1988), Iran Air served Baghdad as well.

In September, MEA announced it's planning to resume service to Baghdad in the near future but is waiting for insurance costs to go down. I think this is the case for many airlines in addition to the stability issue.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineCaspritz78 From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2899 times:



Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 6):
I don't see direct flights ever. Maybe UA982 IAD-KWI-SDA and UAL981 SDA-KWI-IAD. Whats next? Tehran

No for real, I could see KWI-SDA-KWI since the plane sits in KWI for like 7 hours after it arrives from IAD. Or maybe even IAD-DXB-SDA-DXB-IAD. This would prolly not happen for another 5 years at best though.

This would make the most sense. Since no airline would let its crew stay overnight in Baghdad. This is way too dangerous. Anyway it is already possible for *A members to offer connections to EBL via Vienna with OS.


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