Jetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 6604 posts, RR: 54 Posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 11472 times:
More bad news. As with the SEA-LHR, DTW-CDG and DTW-KIX-TPE will also be suspended 18JAN and 01MAR respectively. This was another internal memo from Inflight Communications. It said that more international flying opportunities would be come available in the near future, but they're unable to announce them as of yet. The transition has begun.
[Edited 2008-11-07 22:16:20]
"Shut your pie hole and listen to me when I say that I am finished with the checking of the bags conversation."
SNCntry32 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1387 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 11459 times:
I retract my statment and am now wondering where these 747's and A330's are going...
ItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 578 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11436 times:
Jez...again???? DTW-KIX-TPE was been suspended like 3 times as long as i can remember.
DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5545 posts, RR: 3 Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11424 times:
Quoting Jetjack74 (Thread starter): More bad news. As with the SEA-LHR, DTW-CDG and DTW-KIX-TPE will also be suspended 18JAN and 01MAR respectively. This was another internal memo from Inflight Communications. It said that more international flying opportunities would be come available in the near future, but they're unable to announce them as of yet. The transition has begun.
i assume they will bump NRT-TPE up from a 75X to something bigger?
Jetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 6604 posts, RR: 54 Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11390 times:
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3): i assume they will bump NRT-TPE up from a 75X to something bigger?
It didn't mention anything about that. Just announced the suspension of the route
"Shut your pie hole and listen to me when I say that I am finished with the checking of the bags conversation."
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 12727 posts, RR: 22 Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11359 times:
KIX really has become a grave yard for long haul flights.
Somewhat bizarre considering the population size and amount of commerce in the region.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3084 posts, RR: 35 Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11344 times:
My guess is that the 744 is better used in other markets and that it is simply too large for the market at this time. If I had to guess, the route will get shifted to ATL or gain a 777 at some point to better right size capacity and yields.
DTW-CDG however is a little surprising. I wonder if AF will upgage to larger equipment, or connections will get funneled through other hubs. Like KIX, I suspect smaller gage will bring the route back.
Haggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1090 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11291 times:
Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 6):
DTW-CDG however is a little surprising. I wonder if AF will upgage to larger equipment, or connections will get funneled through other hubs.
mhm, maybe AF is introducing a second frequency, instead of the cancelled CDG-PHL?
But maybe, with the demise of the car industry, they just don't need that many connections to Europe from DTW any more...
OA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 2703 posts, RR: 10 Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11236 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5): KIX really has become a grave yard for long haul flights.
Somewhat bizarre considering the population size and amount of commerce in the region.
Agreed! By all accounts, KIX should be able to support all of these flights that have gotten the axe. I wonder what factors are at play here that are making flights to KIX uneconomical.
Jetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1947 posts, RR: 20 Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10568 times:
I have no idea how it will all shake out, but here is a theory...
NW is suspending DTW-KIX to move the 744 to a new or existing DL route. Potentially DL might be replacing NW on the route with a 777. A communication to NWA Inflight might not include the second part of the equation.
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 4921 posts, RR: 27 Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10534 times:
Quoting Jetjack74 (Thread starter): More bad news. As with the SEA-LHR, DTW-CDG and DTW-KIX-TPE will also be suspended 18JAN and 01MAR respectively. This was another internal memo from Inflight Communications. It said that more international flying opportunities would be come available in the near future, but they're unable to announce them as of yet. The transition has begun.
Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 6): My guess is that the 744 is better used in other markets and that it is simply too large for the market at this time. If I had to guess, the route will get shifted to ATL or gain a 777 at some point to better right size capacity and yields.
DTW-CDG however is a little surprising. I wonder if AF will upgage to larger equipment, or connections will get funneled through other hubs. Like KIX, I suspect smaller gage will bring the route back.
Not sure how much of this is DL merger restructing-related, or simply curbing the loss from the rapid softening in the international markets during the slowest time of the year. The current economic situation is hitting international travel forso than domestic. If you notice, they aren't cut, they are suspended during the SLOWEST time of the year.
Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 12): NW is suspending DTW-KIX to move the 744 to a new or existing DL route. Potentially DL might be replacing NW on the route with a 777. A communication to NWA Inflight might not include the second part of the equation.
Like I said, I have no idea. But it is a theory.
For Jan 1, its way too late to announce any new international routes to place these aircraft. Not likely they'll be swapping out and DL routes/aircraft just yet.
Nwab787techops From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 218 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10492 times:
Quoting Jetjack74 (Thread starter): More bad news. As with the SEA-LHR, DTW-CDG and DTW-KIX-TPE will also be suspended 18JAN and 01MAR respectively. This was another internal memo from Inflight Communications. It said that more international flying opportunities would be come available in the near future, but they're unable to announce them as of yet. The transition has begun
In Techops DTW we are going to FAM class for Delta's B777 and B767 fleet. And we are told that we will see B777 and 767 in DTW. Word is DTW-KIX-TPE is going to be a DL B777. DTW-CDG being cut is news to me but, I would think they are putting a Delta B767 on that and moving the nice new A330 the New York or ATL.
Who knows, look what they did to Pan-Am's FRA hub.
MasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 4174 posts, RR: 8 Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10392 times:
Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 6): I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot of this...
Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 12): Like I said, I have no idea. But it is a theory.
I think you have both concluded (without saying so) that, post-merger and in today's economy, DL has too many planes of every type. They are no doubt slicing and dicing the data,deciding whether to fly them, park them, or eat the temporary inefficiency of reduced utilization.
DL's recent actions seem to favor flying them, a choice I admire.
PHXtoDCAtoMSP From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 207 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10383 times:
From what I hear, the DTW-CDG is a 4-way (now 3-way) Joint Venture move and AF will operate the route solely, year round and it will be a JV flight.
I also hear that NW will start a NRT-KIX 757 flight in place of DTW-KIX.
Nwa757300 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 277 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10346 times:
From what I've heard an A330 will be flying ATL-Sao Paulo and the 744 will be flying ATL-NRT.
The aircraft from these suspended routes will have to go somewhere. The e-mail we got from our SVP inflight NWA said, new flying opportunities will soon be announced.
PDXLVR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 19 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10339 times:
Any word on PDX-NRT? I'm planning on booking award travel on that flight for Nov of '09 but if I'm going to end up re-booked on some other flight I might consider other options.
RoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 5728 posts, RR: 28 Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10117 times:
Quoting PDXLVR (Reply 19): Any word on PDX-NRT? I'm planning on booking award travel on that flight for Nov of '09 but if I'm going to end up re-booked on some other flight I might consider other options.
I think PDX-NRT is very safe and is right sized with the A332. It could drop down to a 767, but I doubt it.
The fact that NW started PDX-AMS, shows that they feel PDX is a strong enough market. Portland has big connections to Asia with the economy there.
My job is to make it so your flight is not delayed. Come fly the friendly skies!
Hjulicher From Russia, joined Feb 2005, 779 posts, RR: 3 Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10018 times:
I am so depressed. I've flown the DTW-CDG flight numerous times, and it's always full, and seems to perform much better than AF's flight. That may change now, but how is it that, DTW cannot support two flights to Paris. We're probably going to get the axe on our LGW flight as well. That leaves use with just AMS, FRA, CDG, LHR. Very sad indeed. I'm already not liking this merger. First, nwa.com shows only delta flights (for instance) DTW-SVO, only on DL, when I'm specifically looking to transfer in AMS.
For all of you who say you prefer connecting in your home country as opposed to a third country, I completely disagree with your preferences. In fact, I think it's plain stupid to do that, because you're getting yourself the worst possible service ever. Ever thought of what foreigners think when they arrive into JFK from Europe or Asia? It's the most despicable of terminals ever, and having to wait a couple hours in Terminal 3 is awful. Same goes for ATL or any other outdated US airport. European airports on average are tons better than their American counterparts and have a lot more services available. They also don't require you pick up your baggage either. I will connect in Europe anyday and arrive at DTW's nice new terminals and just got through passport and customs and be done with the journey.
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 4921 posts, RR: 27 Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9737 times:
Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 21): Let the great integration begin, 744 to ATL coming by the half dozen or maybe JFK to NRT is back in April 2009.
That will likely return, but with a 777, not a 744.
Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 23): I am so depressed. I've flown the DTW-CDG flight numerous times, and it's always full, and seems to perform much better than AF's flight. That may change now, but how is it that, DTW cannot support two flights to Paris
Prior to the NW-AF codeshare, NW suspended DTW-CDG during the winter a few times.
I would guess that a NW/DL operated DTW-CDG will return, either with a 75A, 767, or A330.
25 PHXtoDCAtoMSP: It looks like NRT-KIX on a 757 is already loaded into the schedules on nwa.com
26 Michman: Then why is the NW DTW-CDG flight is back in the system come APR 5 (SEA-LHR too)?
27 Ktachiya: Oh boy, as much as I am working for a different airport, I really am shocked at how KIX is losing all its flight. So YVR got axed (I heard from an AC
28 WorldTraveler: people are getting way too worked up about route changes in an off-peak period. DL has not released schedules through summer 09 but that should come s
29 NWAESC: DTW-CDG on NW has been scaled back to less than daily and/or suspended during the winter before... This shouldn't really stun anyone...
30 DeltaL1011man: I'm starting to think DL will start the route with a 763. Add it to the CDG hub. I also think we may see the same for all NW's CDG routes. Move them
32 Burnsie28: Let the DL dismantling of NW begin... anyone see them just dropping this after they decide whoops maybe not such a good idea. Whats funny is DL's CFO
33 DeltaL1011man: My bad Forgot about MSP-CDG being seasonal. By who? And for when? I need a link. Becuase I check the loads on NRT all the time and i promise it is
34 Hjulicher: Nobody wants to fly on a DL 767. Those aircraft, no matter how correctly sized they are, are pieces of crap compared to NW's A330 fleet, and of course
35 DeltaL1011man: I assume your talking about ""Northwest wide-body planes are probably too big for the markets they serve," said Hauenstein." 1) I think we can trust
36 Luckyone: Never mind Paris being one of the five alpha world cities and CDG home to the bigger of the two airlines in the AF/KL tieup. The airline which most p
37 DeltaL1011man: this is a reason why AF has F class.
38 FlyABR: is there any reason to hope that more directs to europe will happen via msp once delta figures out where to place all their widebodies??
39 SNCntry32: You summed it up perfectly. DL customers will be getting the best of NW while the NW hubs are getting shafted...
40 Flighty: Deal with it, Delta / AFKL will certainly be serving DTW-CDG for many years to come. Northwest will not be serving it because Northwest is going away
41 Flighty: Again... what are you saying... they will be the same airline. DL 767 and DL A330 will have the exact same product, F/As and carpets very soon. Maybe
42 Steeler83: Yeah, considering the facility is on a man-made island in the middle of Kobe Bay. Aren't they adding another terminal facility there as well?
43 SNCntry32: Northwest and KLM were one company far before Delta and Air France. The fact that DL says there is too many seats going to AMS? That is how NW has do
44 Malaysia: I sure hope the amount of xfers can fill the 757. Do they depart Intl or must clear customs in NRT first?
45 RwSEA: Dunno about KIX, but at NRT you do not have to clear customs/immigration. However you do have to go through security.
46 Centrair: WOW!!! DTW-KIX-TPE!!! Hope they don't suspend DTW-NGO-MNL next. This is not a good thing. Are these suspensions part of the DL transition or due to an
47 DTWAGENT: DL does not make a hap hazard change in they way of doing things unless their is a need for it or a chance to make some money. But, remember that DL d
48 Hjulicher: Clearly you don't understand what a joint venture is. DL and AF, and KL and NW are not the same airline, they are partners who work together across t
49 Syncmaster: Just because a flight is full - or oversold - does not mean it is profitable. Ed Bastian's comment is in regards to the route not being as profitable
50 Luckyone: Why don't you get it? What worked for NW apparently didn't work well enough for them to make it as a stand-alone entity. Also, what worked for one ai
51 WorldTraveler: you are seeing a couple of pieces of data and coming to the conclusion that DL is dismantling NW's hub. Did you not read that NW's Inflight SVP said
52 LAXdude1023: Case-in-point, but on the flip side what is the point of a merger if they dont cut anything at all? I guess so. I wouldnt be surprised to see KIX lea
53 WorldTraveler: but you haven't seen what DL might cut from its own network for the benefit of NW. No one seems to be getting their undies in a wad over the apparent
55 DeltaL1011man: Again I think Glenn knows a s**t load more than you or Burnise do. becuase that hasn't happend at the other airlines......... I'm sorry I don't think
56 LAXdude1023: I know it will be a two way street, but my point was that a merger is pointless unless cuts are made. I know cuts will come from the DL side as well,
57 NASCARAirforce: Yeah they are suspended most likely because Delta is going to take over on that route - probably a 777 from DTW-KIX and a 767 DTW - CDG. DTW-CDG is g
58 Jetlanta: This merger has never been justified on the basis of cost reductions. Revenue synergy to the tune of $2 billion per year is the goal.
59 SNCntry32: NWA was one of the best positioned carriers out there to make it on thier own FYI... Thier stock value was mutch higher then deltas. They have some o
60 Panamair: Nonsensical, one-sided prejudicial statements. How conveniently you forget that "DL customers" on routes such as ATL-NRT (where the 744s are supposed
61 Luckyone: And yet they were still bought out??? Such a strong company one would think would put up a better fight than NW, look no further than the clusterf*ck
62 Centrair: Let's see here. DL wants to move around aircraft to better use them on routes. So Maybe KIX will get a 777 and SEA will get a 767. Then the 744s are s
63 DeltaL1011man: Which wont work for Delta. Hints the comment. I would say the numbers aren't as good as yall think. this is why they are moving stuff around DL also
64 Burnsie28: DL posted it on Delta Net. I have been looking at Delta's flights too, I can see them via PARS. When they say "can't fill the planes" yeah it does me
65 DeltaL1011man: They posted the loads for the month. Pacific was down to 74% but that doesn't mean NRT is down. I assume when they say pacific they mean ATL-PVG,ATL-
66 LAXdude1023: Its both. The airline itself will be much larger, however there will be casualties. Of all the hubs that will be hardest hit, I think it will be one
67 DeltaL1011man: Thats not really true. A.net makes ATL seem much much worse than what it is. DL has had up to 1,200 flights a day. They have close to 1,000 flights n
68 Jetlanta: Of course. The point is that the merger was not justified on the concept of a BOTTOM LINE reduction of costs. Moving airplanes around is designed to
69 LAXdude1023: Ive been to ATL many times, I know how congested it is. Granted for the amount of traffic it gets, it does a good job. However after my last trip whe
70 DeltaL1011man: I agree but If they really wanted to close MEM they could fit it into Atlanta. I don't think they should but they can if need be.
71 TN757Flyer: In reality, what is there to move? By my count, only six destinations are served from MEM that are not served from ATL, and four of those are EAS cit
72 Flighty: Right I was just saying the NW name and brand is disappearing. To wish for it over Delta... is obviously doomed. Delta will keep the NW flying that s
73 Hjulicher: Not always. AF is great on-board, but on the ground in CDG and DTW, AF isn't the best or the most organized. I don't rate my opinions on one flight e
74 DeltaL1011man: MOW? as in SVO? In that case then you haven't been via ATL in a long time. DL has a 764ER on the route now. PTVs nose to tail.much better than a 763
75 Luckyone: Thank you for beating me to it! I just flew that route in July and I must say the 764ERs are a VERY nice way to cross the pond. The beat, IMHO, Lufty
76 Hjulicher: I guess you haven't connected in AMS. You don't know what you're missing. Those stroop waffles and coffee are delicious. Oh, and yeah, SEE BUY FLY. J
77 Panamair: DL is already starting to follow that NW-KL strategy by beefing up its JV with AF, which only started this year. Witness the announcement of CDG-RDU,
78 Sxf24: That statement makes no sense. What you don't seem to understand is that building on a network around funneling passengers through multiple connectin
79 TN757Flyer: It's STILL an EAS route that my tax dollars should not go to support. If a community wants airline service, let the residents vote on some method of
80 Haggis79: It's not? Well, you better quick tell AF/KL and LH.... they might be interested in the fact that their profits are coming from a not sustainable busi
81 Jetlanta: Indeed, or that in tough times the majority of airlines actually increase their focus on hubs. Point to Point service is the first to go.
82 Burnsie28: All you have to do is look back when US Airways wanted to take DL over, and it was the same deal. So your saying that no tax dollars should go to EAS
83 Flighty: Done right, COU can pay its own bills. You should complain about something else, there are plenty of worse uses of EAS. COU is a city that needs air
84 TN757Flyer: That was a hostile takeover attempt, DL people had a right to be upset. Delta and Northwest is not hostile. Huge difference. NW people may be upset,
85 TN757Flyer: Then let it. Take it off the EAS list and let whatever airline that wants to fly there do so off the taxpayers dime.
86 NWAESC: Then you must not spend much time reading these threads; it's pandemic. That would be the post that was deleted for being off topic, right? Anyway, s
87 TN757Flyer: Actually it was deleted. It doesn't change my opinion, and I stand by my assertion that the infighting brewing between DL and NW employees does not b
88 NWAESC: I know. So was my response to it. Mine either... Dl'ers getting over themselves will go along way toward avoiding that...
89 TN757Flyer: How about BOTH airline employees getting over themselves and actually making an attempt to work as a cohesive unit? Finger pointing just makes it wor
90 NWAESC: I'll be fine; no need to worry about me....
91 Nwaflyer: I agree with you that they should not shoe horn MEM into ATL. As a person who flew to (thank god I dont anymore) ATL it is overcrowded with long line
92 Airbuske: Didn't DAL announce that they will be flying the 744 from ATL to GRU, TLV and AUH?
93 DeltaL1011man: not the same thing Oh don't worry, ATL is Delta's main hub. They still have room for about 200 flights (easy) so i would rather it be to new markets
94 Nwaflyer: I agreed with you they may have room for FLIGHTS. What about the people? Do they really have room to CRAM 4,000 more people into the overcrowded TERM
95 LAXdude1023: Ill ask you this: Why? MEM does make money for what it does, so does ATL. Why abandoned MEM if both do fine how they are? Why fold MEM into ATL when
96 Panamair: LOL...You trust a.net to give you an idea of the typical DL employee reaction and attitude towards NW employees? Actually, if one reads carefully and
97 TN757Flyer: Airline CEO's have been screaming for years that consolidation is a must because of over capacity. What makes anyone think Delta has to add 200 fligh
98 DeltaL1011man: Ummm if it worked in 05-06 it will work now. DL had around 1200 flights per day at that time, now they have right at 1000. They can fit 200 more flig
100 EYFlyer88: Ahhh NW makes me nervous! I am booked from NRT to JFK via DTW (connecting onto DL from DTW to JFK) on 1/16/09 - I HOPE there are no "unpleasant surpri
101 NWAESC: No. I take all things on here with a grain of salt...sadly, I've seen the same mentality elsewhere, though... (both online & in "real life.") I hope
102 Runway23: Why would there be? You're flying on two hub-to-hub routes. DTW-NRT will stay in the very long run.
103 Burnsie28: Well they would make money on their own, so I blame it on the fact that Steenland and Richard were buddy buddy. Agreed, but when its DL management sa
104 Centrair: KIX has become a wasteland for US flights. Maybe it is easier to just add KIX-NRT and then have the US bound flight remain KIX-HNL with connecting se
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