747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4220 posts, RR: 2 Posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9954 times:
I have reed of stories, where Eastern would have a L1011 crew, fly a Tristar from MIA to JFK and back and that was there flight for the day. Do some airlines, still give there crew just one short flight a day?
DLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3670 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9922 times:
Miami to JFK and return sounds like a full day of flying to me. That would be about 6.5 block hours according to the DL schedules. (3:15 each way). If you include and hour for turning the plane around plus a minimum of :30 at the originating airport for prep work, that would be a full 8 hour day.
Acey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1624 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9902 times:
When we had our second overnighter at MLI this summer, the crew that flew the second one in at about 10:30 PM hadn't flown at all that day, so they started work around 8:00 PM and finished at about 10:30. The only crappy part was that they had to fly that same plane out at 5:45 the next morning and had a decently full day of flying that day. I know there are some other short schedules, but they're escaping me at the moment.
A lot of the senior guys get these trips. Everyone thinks that the guys doing transcons and int'l are. Would never forget a DL captain, his name was Mike Birmingham (retired about 4 years ago) and he was on the 757. He was something like #10 or 20 out of the 757 captains. I saw him a lot on the ATL-STT-ATL run. His flight left anywhere between 9 and 12 from Atlanta (depended on time of year). Did the one hr turn in St. Thomas and was back at the airport by 9.
Quoting Acey559 (Reply 2): When we had our second overnighter at MLI this summer, the crew that flew the second one in at about 10:30 PM hadn't flown at all that day, so they started work around 8:00 PM and finished at about 10:30. The only crappy part was that they had to fly that same plane out at 5:45 the next morning and had a decently full day of flying that day. I know there are some other short schedules, but they're escaping me at the moment.
I saw that a lot at ASA while non-reving but reverse. Once had a flight to AGS. The crew from Atlanta had started the day in Panama City, then the short hop to ATL. They they picked up the flight across I-20 to AGS and they were done at 1230. The oher crew was already at the airport ready to turn her around back to Atlanta and had quite a day ahead of them that i'm sure didn't entil about 11 that evening.
PGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 3067 posts, RR: 48
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9731 times:
Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter): I have reed of stories, where Eastern would have a L1011 crew, fly a Tristar from MIA to JFK and back and that was there flight for the day. Do some airlines, still give there crew just one short flight a day?
Seems to me that MIA-JFK-MIA is two legs, and above average for block time for a domestic day, certainly over 6 hours. It would almost certainly be worse now than it was for EA given the congestion in JFK. There are a few good deals out there, but in general we work a full day.
Xtoler From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 970 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9710 times:
I had a few pairings where all I did was fly ORD to SBN (takes longer to taxi) early in the morning and have a really long Saturday in SBN and leave SBN early the next morning and have a long 4 or 5 leg day. Just to note, ORD was also an overnight for us too so that would put us like day 2 of a 4 day pairing, or maybe day 3.
EMB145 F/A, F/E, J41 F/A, F/E, because my wife clipped my wings, armchair captain
UN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4297 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9521 times:
A Comair JFK based crew was telling me they'd fly JFK-BTV leave at like 10pm arrive at 11:30pm, then leave for JFK at 6am the next day. They'd technically be "on duty" all night, and only fly two segments.
Floridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2095 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9041 times:
Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 7): A Comair JFK based crew was telling me they'd fly JFK-BTV leave at like 10pm arrive at 11:30pm, then leave for JFK at 6am the next day. They'd technically be "on duty" all night, and only fly two segments.
They call these Standups, Continuous Duty Overnights, or Highspeeds. They're quite common in the regionals. Mesaba has a ton of them, especially out of Minneapolis.
LXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2152 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7187 times:
I know a flight attendant at LX who did already once a ZRH-VIE-ZRH turnaround during a day including the rest of the crew and that was it for them in one day. Those things are rather exceptional but do happen at most airlines.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 29325 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7072 times:
When BA started service to SEA sometime in the early 1980s or so it was an extension of their LHR-YVR service using 742. It operated LHR-YVR-SEA-YVR-LHR. I recall the entire cockpit and cabin crew changed at YVR and the new crew operated only the short YVR-SEA-YVR legs (110 nm, about 30 minutes block time each way). Then they spent another night in YVR. And since their service on that route was less than daily then, they must have often spent at least 3 nights in YVR before returning to LHR. BA was of course government-owned then and less efficient than today.
CallBell From Germany, joined Mar 2008, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6207 times:
The great thing about a job as a Pilot or Flight Att./ Cabin crew is that no two days are the same. Yes we may have some short days, but its all swings and roundabouts. By that I mean there are some days when you have a short day, but there are others when the day is far longer than the average 8hr day. Just as no one works 15 hr days everyday, no one works 5 hr days every day, it's all a mix.
Contrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6063 times:
Whenever I feel like BSing with the pilots of the flights I do I'll ask them what legs there doing. I can say its not rare at all to hear JFK-BOS-IAD-JFK or just JFK-PWM-JFK and call it a day. All depends on what the pilots put in for, for there schedule that month.
Avallillo From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5604 times:
Yes, there are probably still single leg short days out there, although the MIA-JFK turn you use as an illustration is not one of them! (That, as has been mentioned above, is a full day of flying!)
Something closer to what you are talking about would have been the JFK-BDA schedules we used to have at American, and may still for all I know (I retired a few months ago). JFK-BDA in the evening, followed by a layover in BDA, and then BDA-JFK in the morning, and you were done! Each day had only a single leg of around 1.5 hours actual flying, although the block times on the evening flight from JFK-BDA could be nearly 4 hours with all of the early evening delays at JFK! There was even a time when the layover was 30 some hours in BDA, because the morning trip left too early for the pilots to take it out the next day. AA changed the schedules a year or two ago so that the layover could be shorter - more's the pity!
Schedules like this are generally avoided because they are non productive and rather expensive. Nearly all airline pilots get paid according to formulae that involve minimums of pay per duty day, per trip, and so on. That 2 hour block time flight from BDA-JFK cost the company 5 hours of pilot pay per crewmember, since the minimum pay for a day of duty, regardless of how much flying is actually done is 5 hours on the most recent contract I know of. And if it involved a 30+ hour layover, the actual pay for the entire trip, 3 days in which only at most 4 hours of actual flying occurred, was around 12 hours.
Typically, low time schedules like this are the bits and pieces that fall out of the scheduling process - the computers can fine tune the schedules so that 99 + % of the pilot trips are productive - that is, where the pay ends up being strictly for the actual flying done, because the actual flying done is above the daily minimums. There is, however, always some slop, and thus a few trips will be assembled that don't have enough flying in them to exceed the minimums - some fall short by a good bit, like the BDA trips!
The minimums in the contracts came about because, in the old days (1950's for example) it was not uncommon to have a trip that would go from, say, JFK-ROC, layover for 2 days, and fly back ROC-JFK, and the pilots would be away from home for 3 days and be paid the grandiose sum of 4 hours of pay! Pilots like to spend time at home as much as anybody, and since the unions have always had a certain amount of shall we say bargaining power, the so-called duty rigs ( the provisions in the contract that call for minimums of pay in certain circumstances) were eventually negotiated.
VHXLR8 From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 500 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4646 times:
QF short haul crew have a lot of 'short days'. It's quite a common pattern for say a MEL based crew to do MEL-SYD-MEL and that's it; 4.5hr day. Similarly SYD based crew have a lot of SYD-MEL-SYD days. The same can be said for flights to BNE, ADL, CBR etc.
These trips tend to be very junior as the hours are so low, you end up with less days off as you have to work more days to reach your quota of hours.
When I was short haul I knew the 0515-0945 MEL-SYD-MEL trips very well!!
Saab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1621 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4428 times:
Seniority is everything. If the company creates trip pairings that are easy and don't involve much flying it is hard to blame anyone for bidding for these trips.
My schedule for December has 18 days off. If that's how the company chooses to use me that's how they choose to use me.
Tomorrow I fly two legs and finish before 10 AM. I'll sit all day at my layover city. Doesn't sound too efficient, but that's how the pairing is constructed.
There are many reasons for this and I am not pointing fingers at the company. Some of the reasons include legal reasons, scheduling for customer demand, aircraft positioning, etc. Right now most airlines are running a bit fat on pilots and so there is less flying to go around.
Many reasons for 'easy' days. But flying a widebody from Florida to New York and back is more flying than I do somedays. The turnaround time on the ground for a widebody is at least 1 hour, probably more like 90 minutes. The flight time is 2.5 - 3 hours. And the pre-flight planning is also about an hour. So that constitutes a normal workday by my reckoning. Not real hard, but hardly extraordinarily easy either.
: I'm on reserve so my trips are very random sometimes. I'm starting a four day trip today. Deadhead from JFK to CVG to STL for the overnight. Get there
: I don't know about other stations, but our ASA crews are put up in a hotel for a couple hour nap before they are to fly back out during the stand up.
: Of course - these are the primo legs. My aunts been an AA F/A since the late 1960s and she can bid on pretty much any trip she wants. Her favorites ar
: I've heard from a friend who is a head FA at FR, that the hardest days for Pilots as well as FAs are very short hops. When he was at PIK, the worst yo
: This is absolutely correct. I fly as part of the US Airways Express system in the eastern United States. We have many, many days with 6 legs per day.
: USAirways (PSA) in CVG had 0600 flt. to PIT returning about 0930. That was it for that crew - that was when CVG was still a crew domicile until shortl
: Sorry 10:30 PM (22:30) and Arrive 11:37 PM (23.37) and leave the following day at 4:40 PM (16:40)
: That depends on the contract. Ours requires a hotel room for any scheduled sit longer than 5 hours. We get a lot of four hour sits as a result. For t
: Also, I remember some lines that crews could bid were for last in/ first out......One leg being the last for a RON aircraft, and the other leg being t
: Spot on... I would dare say that a lot of low cost airlines often build there schedules built around crew times to maximise returns. Quite often you
: Sorry...my bad. I had read a blog posting about Mesa not getting a hotel room on a CDO and assumed it was an industry norm. http://fl250.blogspot.com
: That policy changed at Mesa after some very bad press. Don't assume too much with Mesa, sadly they have the worst pilot contract in the industry by a