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SWA Codeshare To Mexico With Volaris  
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days ago) and read 6916 times:

Read all about it:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/081110/lam097.html?.v=101

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6814 times:

These are great news for everybody, for the flying passenger, for Southwest, for Volaris, and for Aeromexico & Mexicana.

I'm sure Mexicana and Aeromexico DO NOT want Southwest starting Mexican services, not now, not ever. Obviously, Southwest does not need to go international to make money and be succesfull., they're doing great flying domestic.

This shows Volaris stability and financial well being, otherwise Southwest would not have gone through with this.


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5222 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6780 times:

Volaris doesn't currently serve the US, I wonder which WN stations will be the beneficiary of new Mexico links?

PHX and LAS are probably a given.



The best IFE: A window seat and a good book.
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5844 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6730 times:

I believe that Volaris was pursuing authority to operate to one of the Los Angeles area airports.


"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6692 times:



Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 2):
Volaris doesn't currently serve the US, I wonder which WN stations will be the beneficiary of new Mexico links?

PHX and LAS are probably a given.

PHX, LAS, Chicago's Midway, airports in Texas, Florida and California. Anythig is fair game

From the article, Southwest is not going to go after ethnic market, but the tourist market. I already see routes like CUN, SJD, PVR to PHX, LAS, MDW.


User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6657 times:

This came of as a surprise but at the same time I'm not surprised. I think Volaris and WN are a good match, though Volaris IMO has a superior product compared to WN. Volaris is by far the best Mexican LCC and, I dare say, better in many aspects than MX or AM. I've flown the 3 a lot and I like them all but with Volaris I just have the biggest smile when I get off the plane.

EDIT: Just noticed the article says Volaris has 1 A320 and 18 A319s, last I heard they were all A319s. Is that a typo or Am I missing something here?

[Edited 2008-11-10 09:37:40]

[Edited 2008-11-10 09:37:58]

User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17822 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6620 times:



Quoting Juventus (Reply 1):
I'm sure Mexicana and Aeromexico DO NOT want Southwest starting Mexican services, not now, not ever.

I don't know that WN would be a threat to MX or AM more so than Volaris, Interjet, and Viva Aerobus whose costs must be lower than WN I imagine.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3806 posts, RR: 29
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6609 times:



Quoting Juventus (Reply 4):
PHX, LAS, Chicago's Midway, airports in Texas, Florida and California. Anythig is fair game

Isn't the current U.S./Mexico bilateral agreement (or whatever the correct term may be) still at least somewhat restrictive in markets that airlines based on both sides of the border are allowed to serve? Or has U.S./Mexico been changed to true "open skies" as with U.S./Canada?


User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6486 times:



Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 7):
Isn't the current U.S./Mexico bilateral agreement (or whatever the correct term may be) still at least somewhat restrictive in markets that airlines based on both sides of the border are allowed to serve? Or has U.S./Mexico been changed to true "open skies" as with U.S./Canada?

If I'm not mistaken; on some routes- 2 airlines per country are allowed.....on other routes, 3 airlines per country are allowed.


User currently offlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1808 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6432 times:

I wonder if the shuttle from Volaris that goes from downtown San Diego to TIJ will become more and more popular after this. TIJ is only second to TLC in terms of destinations served by this airline.


Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17822 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6394 times:



Quoting Juventus (Reply 8):
If I'm not mistaken; on some routes- 2 airlines per country are allowed.....on other routes, 3 airlines per country are allowed.

I think with the exception of LAX, WN should probably have no problem getting whatever route authority it wants from any of their hubs.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6825 posts, RR: 32
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6332 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
WN should probably have no problem getting whatever route authority it wants from any of their hubs.

MDW might be tough, since it is lumped together with ORD. Depending on how long they wait to fly their own aircraft to Mexico, certain Florida-MEX designations might also be unavailable at that point.


User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6321 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 6):
Isn't the current U.S./Mexico bilateral agreement (or whatever the correct term may be) still at least somewhat restrictive in markets that airlines based on both sides of the border are allowed to serve? Or has U.S./Mexico been changed to true "open skies" as with U.S./Canada?

Yes, but it is mostly applicable to border cities. For example, any proposed new flights between ELP and points in Mexico will be gauged for effects upon existing flights between CJS and points deeper within Mexico. The Mexican government will not allow any flights that they feel has the potential to gut traffic at CJS...same thing with other close city pairs like TIJ and SAN.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 2):
Volaris doesn't currently serve the US, I wonder which WN stations will be the beneficiary of new Mexico links?

Here's hoping that it will happen to my hometown airport, ELP  hyper  I think WN/Volaris is probably the best probability for mainline international service, as for all other mainline carriers (except perhaps Mexican ones), it means setting up a non-hub operation. I miss the days before deregulation and Frank Lorenzo when ELP was a focus city for CO...and there is a now disused passenger customs facility in Terminal A.



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5222 posts, RR: 21
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6312 times:



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 12):


Here's hoping that it will happen to my hometown airport, ELP hyper I think WN/Volaris is probably the best probability for mainline international service, as for all other mainline carriers (except perhaps Mexican ones), it means setting up a non-hub operation. I miss the days before deregulation and Frank Lorenzo when ELP was a focus city for CO...and there is a now disused passenger customs facility in Terminal A.

I'll cross my fingers for you if you do the same for us here in STL!



The best IFE: A window seat and a good book.
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6227 times:



Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 13):
I'll cross my fingers for you if you do the same for us here in STL!

Definitely! Any new service between the US and Mexico is good for everyone...  crossfingers 



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17822 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6212 times:



Quoting ScottB (Reply 11):
MDW might be tough, since it is lumped together with ORD.

I think you're right, although that would be some longer haul flying, particularly if it's to leisure destinations.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23299 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6190 times:



Quoting ScottB (Reply 11):

MDW might be tough, since it is lumped together with ORD. Depending on how long they wait to fly their own aircraft to Mexico, certain Florida-MEX designations might also be unavailable at that point.

There's room for one carrier or the other on every route, though, I think. No Mexican carrier currently flies to CUN or PVR, only AA flies to MEX, and no American carrier flies to GDL. Given TZ's relative success in GDL, I suspect there's room for someone to fly there from MDW.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineLonghornmaniac From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 3355 posts, RR: 45
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6190 times:



Quoting OPNLguy (Thread starter):

Interesting and exciting news! OPNL, do you have any idea whether both airlines will be flying trans-border flights, or whether WN will remain strictly domestic with their metal? I think it'd be exciting to see WN offer flights from the US into points in Mexico with their own metal.

Cheers,
Cameron


User currently offlineAV8orWALK From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6175 times:

According to Southwest's blog at www.blogsouthwest.com, this isn't really good news for the employees of Southwest that have cared to chime in on the announcement. I guess the employees feel that their jobs are being "outsourced" to Canada and Mexico. Flights that WN could easily do own their own metal, without acquiring another a/c type, are now being flown by someone else. Someone mentioned that Southwest Airlines is turning into Southwest Travel Agency.

Is there a great cause for concern?

Cheers
Drew MCO



The safest place to be in an airplane crash is on the ground.
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6121 times:



Quoting AV8orWALK (Reply 18):
Flights that WN could easily do own their own metal, without acquiring another a/c type, are now being flown by someone else. Someone mentioned that Southwest Airlines is turning into Southwest Travel Agency.

Is there a great cause for concern?

That's an internal matter, that's an issue for the pilot union and management to resolve.

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 17):
do you have any idea whether both airlines will be flying trans-border flights, or whether WN will remain strictly domestic with their metal? I think it'd be exciting to see WN offer flights from the US into points in Mexico with their own metal.

I don't think Southwest will be landing in Mexico (or Canada) anytime soon. Their famous "20 minute turns" wouldn't work so well with customs/inmigration clearances.


User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5209 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6058 times:

Well we could say HOU is out of the running for Volaris flights unless they talk to the City of Houston about an FIS. My bet is PHX, SAT, MSY, LAX, MCO, LAS, AUS


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2484 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5934 times:
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Well let's hope Volais surives long enough for this to come to fruition.


"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5926 times:

Quoting AV8orWALK (Reply 18):
According to Southwest's blog at www.blogsouthwest.com, this isn't really good news for the employees of Southwest that have cared to chime in on the announcement. I guess the employees feel that their jobs are being "outsourced" to Canada and Mexico. Flights that WN could easily do own their own metal, without acquiring another a/c type, are now being flown by someone else. Someone mentioned that Southwest Airlines is turning into Southwest Travel Agency.

Is there a great cause for concern?

Cheers
Drew MCO

A few posts on a blog do not a conspiracy make...

First off, it's not Southwest's blog content that's saying any of this, it's the reaction of some (not all) blog *readers* to the Volaris codeshare annoucement.

The opinion of a few blog posters (who may, or may not actually be SWA employees) cannot possibly reflect the opinion of all 30,000+ SWA employees, and the fact that more of those 30,000+ haven't chimed-in doesn't mean that they don't care, despite your conclusion to the contrary.

Your "guess" that employees feel that their jobs are being outsourced to Canada and Mexico is just that--a guess--and not a very good one. Again, the few supposedly SWA employees (if they are so) can't reflect the opinion of the 30,000+ others. Codeshares are not mergers, and no existing SWA employees are losing jobs to either side of the border. Sure, by codesharing, one avoids hiring their own new staff at a new station, but that's not the same thing as outsourcing existing jobs as is inferred. As with the previous ATA codeshare (where these same "outsourcing" concerns were strangely absent), it's low-risk/cost means to try something new, like LGA, DCA, etc. with ATA was, and international ops would be.

Could SWA eschew codesharing and fly SWA metal to all these new places? Sure, but it's been a business decision not to do so, so far, and doesn't have anything to do with the "guts" or "stones" to do so. Anyone who really knows anything about SWA history, and the context thereof should know better.

[Edited 2008-11-10 14:39:14]

User currently offlineAV8orWALK From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5843 times:

I was merely quoting from the "employees" that have chosen to comment on the news of codesharing to Mexico. I apologize for doing that.

I'm going back into lurk mode on this website. The industry is not as fun as it used to be. You can't share your thoughts and feelings without someone telling you how wrong you are.

Have fun!

Cheers
Drew MCO



The safest place to be in an airplane crash is on the ground.
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3171 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5724 times:



Quoting AV8orWALK (Reply 18):
According to Southwest's blog at www.blogsouthwest.com, this isn't really good news for the employees of Southwest that have cared to chime in on the announcement. I guess the employees feel that their jobs are being "outsourced" to Canada and Mexico. Flights that WN could easily do own their own metal, without acquiring another a/c type, are now being flown by someone else. Someone mentioned that Southwest Airlines is turning into Southwest Travel Agency.

Is there a great cause for concern?

Cheers
Drew MCO

Good Point

WN just needs to fly INTL with their own metal. They CAN do it with their aircraft. MOST of their employees can speak Spanish. They the times are bad and stuff like that, but I think now is a great time for expansion.

They say it will waste money, but I fail to see the logic by WN not flying INTL. It's a gold mine waiting to happen. A lot of people would not be able to afford to fly without WN. Flying INTL will expand these peoples possililites,etc



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
25 Ghost77 : Nope, not on the short plans, Y4 is going for other cities before PHX and LAS. Close, YES, Los Angeles is one city. No typo, indeed Y4 has 1 A320 and
26 Longhornmaniac : Ghost, Any word on whether AUS is on Volaris' list? Cheers, Cameron
27 Cubsrule : Did you mean beginning early 2009?
28 JRDC930 : Cool, finally the only good airline in the U.S. will make it possible to fly to mexico on a good mexican LCC. I hope this cuts into the other U.S. car
29 JRDC930 : Please be ONT... , ever since Azteca died AM has a virtual monopoy and has been price gouging there... We need competition.
30 Okie : Well, codeshare is just that, codeshare. As far as I can tell Y4 at this time is only applying for rights for LAX, however one of the articles I read
31 Silver1SWA : As an employee who works with and interacts with dozens of employees daily from various departments/groups, I have not heard anything negative from an
32 OPNLguy : Neither have I, but I guess we'll be automatically labeled as Stepford employees or otherwise mindless drones. Oh well...
33 AV8orWALK : I was a flight attendant for WN for 6 years. (I'll be more than happy to provide my employee number, hire date, and class number) I met someone on a
34 Cubsrule : MDW-GDL is arguably the biggest remaining hole in the (former) TZ route map. As much as some WN employees apparently refuse to see it, it would be ve
35 Junction : Is Volaris an IATA member carrier? Not that it really matters, but was just wondering because I don't see any of their schedules on display in the maj
36 Mexicana757 : Mexicana flies CUN-ORD. And you are right, currently no Mexican airline on PVR-Chicago. Don't forget that UA also flies to MEX, seasonal. Is UA going
37 Cubsrule : , though there are still 2 empty Mexican carrier authorities. If someone challenged them for it, I suspect they'd just drop it. UA is really weak in
38 USAirALB : not to be off topic..they are weak in destinations in Europe
39 EA CO AS : Per analyst Holly Hegeman at Planebuzz.com: Today the PlaneBusiness email box has received more than a fistful of emails from Southwest pilots who ar
40 Cubsrule : So, in essence, the pilots feel that the company shouldn't be permitted to make any money that they aren't making for the company? Something about th
41 Juventus : Southwest pilots are very upset WestJet and Volaris are going to do their Canadian and Mexican flying. They want to do that themselves for job securi
42 Ghost77 : Nope, not there yet. I see more feasible something to HOU and DAL but they would have to make them international, right? The plan is the following: 2
43 Marcus : Did Southwest ever have plans to fly their won metal to Canada and Mexico, if so then I do agree this is an outsourcing....but if they never had plan
44 XJETFlyer : I smell union problems coming down the road. From a business sense, this works great for WN. Little investment and big rewards! From a pilots view, th
45 Cubsrule : Is DL/AF's ATI also a way to contract free labor? If not, what's the difference? This is why I'm having such trouble understanding where the pilots a
46 Rojo : I don't think Volaris is an IATA member... but you don't have to be an IATA member to get an IATA designator (Y4 for Volaris) and to have your flight
47 ConcordeBoy : They both already are... the question is, would their (remaining) facilities be sufficient to handle 130+ pax per arrival.
48 Post contains links OPNLguy : The pilot's take on the situation... http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...ilot-union-president-talks-ab.html
49 TZTriStar500 : This pretty much answered my question as it brings up the past ATA connection, but why all of a sudden are they concerned with it? Yes, ATA had some
50 Post contains links Ghost77 : LMAO!!! One troubling aspect to this announcement [Volaris code-sharing, Nov. 10] is that our Company is risking brand dilution by association with an
51 Usair320 : US flies to MEX as well as CO? GDL was served by HP/US, but I'm not sure about now. CO also serves GDL.
52 Barney Captain : We did, but not publicly.
53 Cubsrule : ...and, again, why is WN codesharing with TZ different from UA codesharing with OS or DL codesharing with OK?
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