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Delta - Any Chance Of Future Airbus Orders?  
User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3025 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 21041 times:

I was curious to know what peoples views would be, of the possibility of the newly merged Delta even considering or placing future orders with Airbus... Or atleast considering Airbus to tender for new orders!

Delta has always been a stornch Boeing and McDonnell Douglas customer, and with the wheels now churning at quite a pace with the merger of DL and NW, the new airline is going to inherit quite a sizeable Airbus fleet... Im not suggesting Delta is going to dispose of the current Airbus fleet anytime soon.

But I was wondering now they have these aircraft would they consider making further Airbus additions to the fleet, if they are happy with how these current aircraft are performing... Or do you think the new DL board will still look favourably to Seattle for their future requirements as DL have previously done...

From what I recall previously, Delta did obtain a number a A310's when they inhertited these from PAN-AM, along with their routes. But these were only in the fleet for 2-3 years at most.

I was thinking in future years, Airbus would be the only manufacturer able to provide the airline with a replacement to their current 747-400 fleet. Unless they opted for the 777-300 as a slight downgrade.

178 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9426 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 21047 times:



Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
Or atleast considering Airbus to tender for new orders!

they always consider them
Boeing has and will give Delta the better deals
Think about it
You think Boeing will not give the "Worlds largest" airline a good deal?

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
I was thinking in future years, Airbus would be the only manufacturer able to provide the airline with a replacement to their current 747-400 fleet. Unless they opted for the 777-300 as a slight downgrade.

77W is the better plane for DL (due to 77Ls)

Anyways short answer
No



yep.
User currently offlineNycbjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 21035 times:



Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
Airbus would be the only manufacturer able to provide the airline with a replacement to their current 747-400 fleet.

I think boeing and the 747-8 might take issue with that statement  Smile


User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 21035 times:

well, there's always the 747-8.... plus, afaik, DL is partly owned by Boeing now (since they came out of chapter 11), so Boeing should have a strong say in what they order.

That said, it would be stupid of DL not to get at least a proposal from A when they want to buy a bunch of new aircrafts.... they can always use it as a bargaining chip with Boeing.



300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9426 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 21010 times:



Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 3):
well, there's always the 747-8.... plus, afaik, DL is partly owned by Boeing now (since they came out of chapter 11), so Boeing should have a strong say in what they order

They got a large amount of stock when they saved DL's ass from US.......if they still have it I do not know.

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 3):
That said, it would be stupid of DL not to get at least a proposal from A when they want to buy a bunch of new aircrafts.... they can always use it as a bargaining chip with Boeing.

which they do



yep.
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12475 posts, RR: 37
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 20953 times:

I see the 77W being a much more likely option than the 748i for DL, it being already a 777 operator; the 77W can do everything the 748 can do, in range terms - don't know about the cargo capacity.

However, to return to the subject matter of the thread, I think Airbus's best chance lies with the A330 and trying to replace some early 763s with 332s; the 787 is the most likely acft for Delta, since NW has ordered it, but given the number of 763s operated by DL and the fact that deliveries, even before the strike and the production delays, were heading out towards 2017/18, it would probably take up to 2020 for DL to replace all of its 763s with 787s. Airbus can/should/ probably will capitalise on this by offering to replace some of the earlier 763s with 332s (and 333s).

I really can't see any other plausible avenue for Airbus to "get a look in".


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 20916 times:



Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
Delta - Any Chance Of Future Airbus Orders?

Yes, of course.

Soon the A330-300 will be the best aircraft in the Delta fleet and the market has clearly indicated what's the best 747-400 replacement on the Pacific growth routes.

A330s for the Atlantic, B777s for Pacific. No place for irrational preferences, business is business.

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00009670.jpg
Joe perez


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9426 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 20878 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 5):
However, to return to the subject matter of the thread, I think Airbus's best chance lies with the A330 and trying to replace some early 763s with 332s; the 787 is the most likely acft for Delta, since NW has ordered it, but given the number of 763s operated by DL and the fact that deliveries, even before the strike and the production delays, were heading out towards 2017/18, it would probably take up to 2020 for DL to replace all of its 763s with 787s. Airbus can/should/ probably will capitalise on this by offering to replace some of the earlier 763s with 332s (and 333s).

NW has 50 options which I'm sure is before 2015  Wink

Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):
A330s for the Atlantic, B777s for Pacific. No place for irrational preferences, business is business.

have to disagree
Most of DL's routes need nothing larger than a 763. The Boeing 767-300ER is the plane for the job. replaced by the Boeing 787-8  Wink



yep.
User currently offlineRafflesKing From Singapore, joined Mar 2007, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 20861 times:



Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):
No place for irrational preferences, business is business.

 checkmark 

I thought this comment needed some emphasis - so often on here it's suggested poor biz decisions be substitude for coolness factor.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21532 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 20854 times:

I could see addition A319s as the most likely of any.

744 replacements would likely be 77W, with those new fangled staggered Y seats increasing capacity to 744 levels (until pax revolt, at least... )



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3933 posts, RR: 27
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 20784 times:

I think if DL is smart, they'd keep their eye on airbus products. It only makes sense to evaluate the product offerings of the manufacturers and buy the one that fits the needs of the company the best.

I think long term it's really too hard to tell what they'll do. The replacement for the 319/320 is far off, but they'll likely not add to those fleets. In the short term if they bought airbus it would be to supplement the 332 and 333 fleets, which now close a gap DL had before the merger and will be a very important part of the fleet moving forward.

To summarize... DL would be foolish to not consider airbus products in the future if they could get the right plane for the right price. Both Boeing, Airbus, Embraer and Bombardier will all be vying for business from the worlds largest airline.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 20753 times:



Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):
No place for irrational preferences, business is business.

 checkmark 

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 9):
I could see addition A319s as the most likely of any.

or A320's....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineWNFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 20738 times:

I for one can't wait to see the NW Airbus aircraft in Delta colors.

User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9426 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 20735 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 9):

I could see addition A319s as the most likely of any.



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 11):
or A320's....

hard to yes to those two just due to the number of Options Delta has for the 737NG aircraft.



yep.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25338 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 20674 times:



Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
From what I recall previously, Delta did obtain a number a A310's when they inhertited these from PAN-AM, along with their routes. But these were only in the fleet for 2-3 years at most.

In addition to 7 A310-200s and 14 A310-300s obtained from the Pan Am deal in 1991, DL also took delivery of another 9 new A310-300s two years later in 1993. I'm not sure whether those aircraft were ordered by DL or whether they were part of earlier Pan Am orders.

I think the last dozen or so A310s were sold in 1996 so they were in service about 5 years.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21532 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 20617 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 13):
hard to yes to those two just due to the number of Options Delta has for the 737NG aircraft.

true, but they have such a tiny 73G fleet and a large A319 fleet. Seems that it makes sense to build out the A319 fleet and convert the 73G orders to 73Ws. The few 73Gs in the fleet can be refitted for the executive charter business NW was running (assuming DL keeps that up) and that would return those A319s to the fleet as well.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineORDagent From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 20604 times:

DL has stated that they currently like having a diverse fleet as they are able to get the right lift for the right market. However I can see them streamlining the flight with fewer models or fewer models with various derivities of that model.

I


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9426 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 20586 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 15):
true, but they have such a tiny 73G fleet and a large A319 fleet

I do agree but I think it would come down to when is the A/C needed
DL can get 12 more 737s in 2010(plus they have 2 on order)
Could they get A32S at the same rate for faster would be the question.



yep.
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 20570 times:



Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
Delta has always been a stornch Boeing and McDonnell Douglas customer...

Except when they bought L-1011's.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21532 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 20503 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 17):
I do agree but I think it would come down to when is the A/C needed
DL can get 12 more 737s in 2010(plus they have 2 on order)
Could they get A32S at the same rate for faster would be the question.

I doubt they want any new birds at this point, frankly.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12475 posts, RR: 37
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 20462 times:



Quoting 474218 (Reply 18):
Delta has always been a stornch Boeing and McDonnell Douglas customer...

Particularly Douglas; Delta's first CEO, CE Woolman, had a close working relationship with the head of Douglas (I think it was Donald Douglas) and they would talk one-to-one about aircraft orders, including the DC8, for which was a (the?) launch customer. DL subsequently ordered DC9s and DC10s (the latter to cover for late L1011s). The first Boeing jet ordered by DL was the 747, in about 1967, then the 727 in the early '70s (although it inherited some 727s from its acquisition of Northeast).

So, until the 747 came along in 1970, DL had a Douglas jet (and Convair 880) fleet; by the time the 747 left the fleet, in '77, the 727 was well established and of course, from then on the 727 has been joined by 767s and 737-200s (1982), 757s (1985), 737-300s (1986, with the WA takeover) and 777s (c. 1998).


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4738 posts, RR: 39
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 20448 times:
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Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):
A330s for the Atlantic, B777s for Pacific. No place for irrational preferences, business is business.

You sound too logical to be true Keesje! Airbus will have to dig very, very deep to convince "The new Delta" to buy an Airbus product. They sure could use them, but their marriage to Boeing is pretty strong. And Boeing will go far as well to keep Delta an all-Boeing airline. The Airbus fleet out of a take-over could very well be phased out within a couple of years. Business wise not the smartest thing to do, but sentiments are very strong here imho!


User currently offlineCOGlobeTrotter From United States of America, joined May 2006, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 20298 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 15):



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 5):
However, to return to the subject matter of the thread, I think Airbus's best chance lies with the A330 and trying to replace some early 763s with 332s; the 787 is the most likely acft for Delta, since NW has ordered it, but given the number of 763s operated by DL and the fact that deliveries, even before the strike and the production delays, were heading out towards 2017/18, it would probably take up to 2020 for DL to replace all of its 763s with 787s. Airbus can/should/ probably will capitalise on this by offering to replace some of the earlier 763s with 332s (and 333s).

AA ordered the 787 recently & they were able to acquire relatively earlier slots. I'm sure Boeing has some slots saved for the world's largest operator of the 767.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 20248 times:
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In the end it's all a matter of discount and interest rate. Bottom line of any budget is the king in any decision regarding a future plane. And credit is ahead of this.

DL has a growing international network that can demand a Boeing or an Airbus as it's best product because of distance, cargo, sea level or not, so in the end the best financial proposal will win.
However, considering the growing network, they can support even both manufacturers.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25338 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 20216 times:



Quoting 474218 (Reply 18):
Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
Delta has always been a stornch Boeing and McDonnell Douglas customer...

Except when they bought L-1011's.

And, going back a bit further, Convair 880s (and 340s and 440s).


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25 Delta763 : I couldn't agree more. Seriously, though, DL's strategy seems to be to serve their routes with as little metal as possible. This allows them to be fl
26 Alitalia744 : The only new birds that will join the fleet in the near future are incremental 77Ls, 787s and a few 737s.
27 Keesje : Aren't at least 40% of Delta people in all functions Northwest people? The new Delta has 75x Boeing 737NG and 136x Airbus A320 series. Now, what's lo
28 Klkla : Back to the original question, I don't think you will see any Airbus orders coming anytime soon because their order book is already pretty big with 78
29 DeltaL1011man : They will have to start replace M88s in 2010. Leases start to come up and half the fleet will be gone by 2015 it was I think they will start to order
30 PGNCS : Show me evidence that the current management team at Delta feels in any way married to Boeing. Anderson dealt extensively with Airbus at NWA and is c
31 Jacobin777 : ..as Ikramerica mentioned, they have a huge fleet of Airbus as well. And there are also efficient Boeing aircraft as well..works both ways...even tho
32 DeltaL1011man : They will have to leases them again or they will be taken from them. Just becuase they haven't said anything yet doesn't mean they can't order them.
33 FlyDreamliner : NW has been retiring early build A319s and A320s as they come up for serious maintenance, as it is apparently cheaper to do so. I am sure DL will con
34 1337Delta764 : Well, Delta has retrofitted the domestic 763 fleet with AVOD PTVs, so I think that would be a sign that they will remain in service for years to come
35 DeltaL1011man : 767s are staying. Hints winglets and new seats. the owned M80s stay till Y1 757s? are you joking? they only have 175 of them......i bet you think the
36 IliriBDL : I can see them ordering a couple of A380s if everything goes right with the merger. (hopefully it does)
37 Delta763 : What benefit would they get from larger planes? If anything, the Delta way is to use smaller metal to keep their loads high.
38 Nwarooster : When the leases expire on the MD-88s, Delta could probably extend the leases on a month to month basis. I am sure there is no line of possible lessors
39 DL767captain : I believe DL has alway looked at Airbus aircraft and will continue to do so. but being an all boeing airline has its advantages, like getting earlier
40 DUALRATED : I'm willing to bet that in 5 or so years there will not be any airbuses in the Delta fleet. I see the 330's hanging on the longest, but in the end all
41 FrmrCAPCADET : I doubt that the Delta/Boeing deal is all to Boeing's advantage, in fact I sure it isn't, even though I do not have an iota on inside information. The
42 FRNT787 : You are absolutely correct. Delta will always speak to both Airbus and Boeing. But they will probably lean towards Boeing the majority of the time if
43 Flyabr : anybody wonder what will happen to the MD-90s?? also, any room for expanding the 764 ranks for more capacity to europe or south america??
44 NorthstarBoy : *if* Boeing owns 40 percent of DL's shares, could that put them in a position to block a deal with airbus? assuming that such a deal has to be approve
45 N1786b : or because some a.net members prefer Airbus aircraft.
46 Keesje : I was talking 767-300, not 767-300ER. Now look people Airbus has a GTF A320 in the pipeline, the A350-900 & 1000 and the A380 family. What are Boeing
47 Enginebird : Well, Delta should probably take a look at which airlines are the most successful (financially). Which airlines have never been bankrupt/chapter11/et
48 DUALRATED : Ha ha ha that was funny
49 Rheinwaldner : The "best deal" is not something only Boeing can offer. All around the world Airbus quite often gave the "best deal". What if the deal offered by Air
50 Asiaflyer : Finally some senseful comments in this thread. Deltas management are hired by their shareholders to optimize Deltas business, not Boeing's or Airbus'
51 Bmacleod : I think you will see UA order the A380 before you see DL order anything from Airbus. DL was one of the three U.S. carriers to sign an exclusive agreem
52 SparkingWave : DL has traditionally been a Boeing customer. They had a chance to try Airbus with the A310s they inherited from PA. But they didn't like them and disp
53 Alitalia744 : Sorry bud, DL is gonna take the 787s. Case closed.
54 474218 : US law prevents an airframe manfacture from "owning" an airline.
55 Columba : Pre-Merger Delta was that way, not the new Delta, which is the largest airline in the world with maybe the greatest network between the US and Asia.
56 FlyDreamliner : Ugh. DL does not need A380 capacity on any route. Not a one. The 744 is too big on almost all NW routes, DL is doing fine with 772 on all of theirs (
57 Boeing74741R : Agreed. Orders for aircraft are made because the airline believes it to be the best product to meet their needs and/or at the right price. If I was h
58 Papatango : What about the China Southern MD-90's and maybe the Cathy Pacific 777-200's.
59 FWAERJ : I know an NWA pilot, and he said the same things (performance concerns and delivery issues). Delta feels that they won't be able to use the 787 on th
60 Columba : Also it has to be considered that DL does not need to buy new Airbusses for interim lift but could also lease some if they fear the investment in own
61 Rwy04LGA : I for two! WTF is a GTF? Geared Turbofan?[Edited 2008-11-13 09:45:21]
62 F4f3a : why cant they operate mixed fleets operating and ordering both types. They are a huge airline and can get efficiency of scale with the right tool for
63 Intl767400 : People are talking about B-787 vs. A-330 but the real competition is B-787 vs. B777. Delta mang. has expressed clearly that the B-777 is the airplane
64 Gsosbee : IMHO the chances of ANY US airline ordering the A-380 are somewhere south of-slim-to-none. The economics of USA air carriers values frequency over ca
65 Nycbjr : I'm still holding out hope that should they decide not to take the 787 now and instead take more 777's, that they convert the options they hold to la
66 Nwarooster : The order for China Southern's MD-90s has been canceled. Richard was the one who ordered the A330-200s at Northwest.
67 Post contains links Keesje : Delta will open A330 flights from SLC and 777 flights from JFK to Japan. http://www.sltrib.com/Business/ci_10969453 How unsurprizing isn't it. Now Del
68 FlyDreamliner : Right Keesje, and in business Airbus is always the best option right? They will retire old build A32x because that's what is cheapest and they'll pro
69 DUALRATED : Very well said. No! I still say that in 5 years there won't be a single airbus in the Delta fleet, And I'll go further to say you will NEVER see an A
70 Delta763 : That's one hub-connector flight to one of the highest demand markets in Asia. I'd be surprised if we see any more DL/NW 744s in ATL. The A380 serves
71 Jetlanta : You couldn't possibly be more wrong.
72 Keesje : You thought the 777's were big enough for all Delta routes. Delta corrected you within a day ?! I never said Delta should cancel any 787 ! On the A38
73 Delta763 : I don't think that at all. With the A320s they just picked up I think it makes them a lot more flexible to shop around for narrowbodies. Same for the
74 Post contains images Keesje : Thats the old Delta. Now they are a big player at the Pacific all at once. Delta has 10 777's. Those are the aircraft above the 767's. Now the new De
75 DeltaL1011man : they going to lease 55 M88s for 10 years? When they have th options to replace them? I don't like Anderson and I'm not 100% sure he is super smart bu
76 FlyDreamliner : Man alive buddy. Let me lay this out as simply as I can here: Delta has the fleet they have at the moment, and they'll use it as best they can. Even
77 NorthstarBoy : With 40 percent of the shares, Boeing must be one of Delta's largest shareholders, if they don't have at least one seat on the board, that's a pretty
78 Keesje : The A320 is quieter, more stable and wider, most people prefer it, but everyone is of course free to have an opinion. The A340 is quieter and narrowe
79 Ken777 : Does DL have to make any decisions re aircraft purchases over the next 3 to 5 years? I can see them benefiting by delaying deliveries of their 787s a
80 FlyDreamliner : Factual? It's totally subjective. Survey data shows of European, East Asian, and Middle Eastern fliers surveyed, more claimed to prefer 777 to A330/3
81 Jetlanta : This is simply not true. Boeing is not a major shareholder in Delta.
82 FlyDreamliner : Have they sold their stake they got out of the bankruptcy - as a major Delta creditor?
83 Post contains links Jetlanta : http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=DAL Boeing isn't listed among the Top 10 institutions owning outstanding shares. And the 10th largest only owns 1.62
84 Columba : Why should the US be different than the rest of the world.....if Asian, Australian and European airlines use their A380 to the US it could very much
85 Rheinwaldner : Before 20 years zero airlines have been traditionally a Airbus customer. Today this has changed. No not always, but sometimes and surely not never! W
86 MD-90 : The MD-11 has those nice big windows
87 CHRISBA777ER : Just an observation - why does DL seem to have more anti-Airbus lobbyists than any of the other US majors? Seems like there are a lot of people who ha
88 AustrianZRH : You also have to take into account the difference in the routes. Of course, frequency is nice to have spread over the day on the Chicago-New York rou
89 AA777223 : I'm sorry, but that DL A333 is perhaps one of the most gorgeous aircraft I have ever seen. It is simply breathtaking. Long, sleek, clean, that pearli
90 Jetlanta : Before taking them too seriously, look at their user profiles. It may help.
91 Columba : and the Convair 880/990 of course I doubt that the A330 (-200, 300, 200F) is selling much better than all the 777-200 versions (A/ER/LR/F). The most
92 Keesje : Make the 747-8i 3 years. B787 as well as probably 737 deliveries are delayed, probably not further strenghtening the good business relation between D
93 Jfk777 : How many A319/A320's are still contracted for from Airbus ? Or have then all been delivered.
94 FlyDreamliner : The entire MD-90 fleet and some number of MD-88s are newer than many of the early build A320s in the NW fleet. They'll get rid of both MDD and A320 a
95 Columba : I tend to disagree, even if the US are more spread out than most European and Asian countries not every small city is offering direct intercontinenta
96 NorCal : You forgot a couple major hubs. SFO, LAX, DFW, JFK, MIA, CLT etc. Many airlines like CO are looking to expand international operations out of places
97 FlyDreamliner : So let's see here, DL potential 748/A380 routes ATL-NRT 1x (2 frames) ATL-CDG 1x + AF flights (1 frame) DTW-AMS 1x + 1 A330 (1 frame) DTW-NRT 1x (2 f
98 JRDC930 : I hope Not. Thats all boeing needs on top of its labor strife, is to lose a major customer to Airbus. Ill be the first to admit i prefer boeing, but t
99 JRDC930 : First off, i doubt any one but LH will order the 748i; its the plane no one wants, nor is any airline interested in it. Secondly i think boeing will
100 AirNZ : How could it possibly be considering it hasn't even been built yet, let along flown? lol!! From so many of your posts I really have to ask how is tha
101 DeltaL1011man : I have a feelling Boeing will go more. I don't see Boeing just letting the worlds largest airline who is a mostly Boeing carrier (B 434 A162 MD(and D
102 FlyABR : gang, is it possible that one manufacturer might NOT be unable to supply the world's largest airline with all the new planes it will eventually need??
103 Columba : I know that the list was not complete but was just an example. UA could very easily use Chicago as a hub to fill A380s or 747-8Is and in days of high
104 Cerecl : Just because for every Airbus there are four Boeings in DL/NW fleet does not mean that DL/NW will order Boeing exclusively. It may do so, but certain
105 Brilondon : Hard to bargin with the money that Boeing has invested in DL. Since Boeing has an owner ship stake in DL, Airbust has a snowflake's chance in Bermuda
106 Keesje : A 777-200ER carries 20.000kg (equivalent to 200 passengers) of dead weight compared to a A330-300 over the Atlantic without addition passenger or car
107 Columba : What does the fact that the A330 is coming from NW has to do that is the best or not the best aircraft in the fleet of the new Delta airlines. The A3
108 Post contains links Jambrain : So are you saying that US airlines don't want to be "world" airlines and compete in Asia & Europe? From this side of the pond that seems a remarkably
109 Jacobin777 : ..and more coming... ...which while is a lot of A330's is dwarfed by their B767 fleet. I guess Boeing is going to do nothing on that end... I guess B
110 FlyDreamliner : ORD is their lowest yielding international hub. They make more money on 3 small flights from IAD, ORD, and SFO independently, instead of trying to fe
111 JRDC930 : I would wager its small compared to the amount of European companies that would benefit from DL defecting.OVERALL its better for the U.S. economy to
112 DUALRATED : It is?
113 Brilondon : I thought the 787 was the best selling widebody at this momemt.
114 FlyASAGuy2005 : You both quoted the guy directly and STILL mis-quoted him in your own statement. He said
115 SpeedyGonzales : The A330 is the second best selling widebody so far this year, one behind the A350. Both of the have sold more than 777 and 787 combined this year. Ne
116 FlyingClrs727 : I think the MD-88's and MD-90's will replace the DC-9's.
117 Asiaflyer : No offense from my side either, but I disagree. The best for the economy is to have competitive companies with competitive products. Hiding behind tr
118 DUALRATED : Oops sorry, sometimes I guess we see what we want to see. My mistake
119 Simairlinenet : Insider's view: 1) Delta like the A330's capabilities very much. 2) CEO Richard Anderson and VP-Fleet Planning Nat Pieper are both long-term Northwest
120 DeltaL1011man : I'm buying into having 16 types in the mainline fleet (319,320,73G,738,752,753,763,76E,764,77E,77L,744,332,333,M88,M90,DC9)
121 TrijetsRMissed : While your points are well made about competition, there is no question that if DL are to order 100+ aircraft, it would be better for the US economy
122 PM : No. 32. So that's it for all time? Airbus will never get another chance? Is that what passes for mature and considered management decisions in Atlant
123 DeltaL1011man : The lasting I have seen is still being looked at......this was post merger...........but one thing I have started seeing is all the inside stuff the
124 PM : Surely it will happen - unless the A330 fleet is disposed of before the 767 fleet declines. Is that likely? Yes and yes! Never say never...
125 NorCal : Not at all, the A330s are there to stay for awhile, DL won't just dump the buses because they are buses. It is very possible for Airbus to win with t
126 Post contains links and images Jacobin777 : You don't call that dwarfed, especially the "multiplying factor"? Where did I even bring it up? As if that's not stating the obvious.... You have a r
127 Gsosbee : Exactly why there will be a split order on at least the A320/B737 replacements. Principle is one thing, but waiting 10 to 20 years to to complete an
128 Jambrain : toushe!
129 Dank : I hope that you mistakenly thought 1) referred to the 380 not the 330. Since DL has a healthy fleet of them arriving with the merger and they would b
130 DUALRATED : Hmm.... a wise man once said that! Excuse me Emperor, Who are you to challenge my credibility? Anyhow it was just my opinion.
131 Gsosbee : Sorry you are correct, I misread the orginal quote. The A380 program will continue to suck cash away from other programs until the day it is closed.
132 JRDC930 : I agree with your points on competition, but its hard to argue that ordering from europe will help OUR economy. It'llprovide more jobs in less than f
133 Dank : No problem. Thought that might be the case. Again, as long as they are selling the 380 at more than the manufacturing price (which is hard to imagine
134 Keesje : I think is is wise to realize Boeing is the #1 exporter. No need to provoke the rest of the world with protectionist strategies. I see more Airbus 32
135 DUALRATED : Yeah right! let me know when the A320 gets to 5000 airframes! ?
136 PM : A couple of years ago actually. They've now passed the 6,000 mark. You didn't know that?
137 Haggis79 : would you care to explain in what sense Germany and France are "less than friendly to the US market nations"? You realise that we are one of the most
138 JRDC930 : I meant in regards to the aircraft industry; im not gonna try to turn this into an A v B blast , but the EU in general is protective of airbus, thier
139 PM : Protectionism causes unemployment. Do we really need to learn that painful lesson again?
140 FruteBrute : Yes. NW has around 125 +/- 319-320s. Delta has around 75 +/- 737 family aircraft. And unless you've had first hand negotiations with both Boeing and
141 Dank : umm, let's see: As of September Delta currently owns (from delta website) 4 73G (6 more on order) 71 738 (2 orders, 60 options, 60 rolling options) a
142 JRDC930 : Wether you like it or not Obama ran on this platform (protectionsim; keeping jobs here). That doesnt by anymeans mean it will apply to DL im just say
143 JRDC930 : Please explain this interms of relevance?; ive spent 3 years studying the airline management; think i know a bit about reality and wishful thinking.
144 FruteBrute : A.) Obama is neither a communist or a protectionist. I voted for Obama. I like Obama. But he is a politician. Nothing major is going to change with r
145 JRDC930 : I voted for him too, yes DL will go with whats best, IMO thats boeing, i cant explain it but im inclined to believe boeing has better chances than ai
146 FlyDreamliner : I'll continue to say, I have real doubts we'll see this airline have a fleet of just one manufacturer any time in the remotely near future, if ever. S
147 DingDong : Pity. I was starting to look forward to the prospects of threads with 'When will DL retire their DC-9s???'. (Note: said tongue-in-cheek. Unfortunatel
148 Keesje : I generally agree with your post. Delta will be conservative on the fleet side focussing on merging the airlines, consolodating the networks & surviv
149 JRDC930 : I doubt it, as it is i dont think the 747's are gonna last long. I think the 777ER is about as large as were gonna see from DL imho, regardless of th
150 DUALRATED : Never happen, the A380 will NOT fly for an airline here in the states. Airbus could not even sell an A340 here. There is no need nor a wanting of suc
151 BlueSky1976 : Airbus did sell A340s to United States - based carriers. They just did not deliver them.
152 CHRISBA777ER : So you are saying that there is absolutely no need for any VLAs of any kind at any US airport ever? Zero VLA market - is that what you are saying?
153 DUALRATED : My mistake, No four engined Airbus was ever deliverd, and more than likely never will be to a U.S. carrier.
154 Danny : Sounds just like some of those definitive statments that BA, NH etc. will never ever order A380. Some even said it wouldn't fly.
155 FlyDreamliner : Likewise keesje, I think we more or less agree - but not about this. We won't see A380s at DL, certainly not 30-40 of them. DL has a lot of NRT slots
156 Gsosbee : Wrong. He is a strong protectionist and those whose counsel he keeps are even stronger protectionists. The unknown is how does he value "US content"
157 PGNCS : Obama is not a Communist; he is DEFINITELY a protectionist. And on this one, Frute, I think you have hit the nail on the head. They will buy whatever
158 Post contains links Keesje : Why do you feel this? Load factors are always >85% on average on their 747-400 fleet. Now add the Delta network feed..not a scenario but reality. Del
159 JRDC930 : That was my point. Thats why i want DL to stay with Boeing, becasue boeing NEEDS the help, not airbus. As for a better aircraft, i think boeing makes
160 PM : But they wouldn't be "switching". DL have just become a very large owner and operator of Airbus narrowbodies and widebodies. And some of the fleet pl
161 Chgoflyer : Obama is however a socialist. The current global business climate will dictate much of the Obama admin policy-they do not have many choices. Regardle
162 FrmrCAPCADET : The US has a mixed economy for decades and it will likely always have one. Protectionsim/socialism and free trade/capitalism are labels which usually
163 JRDC930 : This probably more than anything else is why we wont see a future airbus order anytime soon. Logistics. They have to integrate what they got first. I
164 DUALRATED : Don't worry it will be!
165 Post contains links Observer : Seattle PI just posted a story (Nov 17, around 8pm PST) that says DL will buy from Airbus and Boeing: http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/aerospace/arc
166 PM : I suppose from a North American perspective that is true - to a degree. NW and US have tended to buy Airbus and AA, DL, AC and CO have been buying Bo
167 DUALRATED : Thats utter nonsense! Based on what? Size? That makes no sense. Minority how so? The U.S. has the largest airline fleets in the world, dwarfing many
168 PM : "Bigger" ... "size"... Yes, I think you've got it. Well done. I could be wrong. (It's happened before.) But when you are the size of, say, Emirates (
169 Keesje : " target=_blank>http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/a...4.asp Wow, we have to thank James Wallace for clearing this up nearly OnDemand ! "Given the fa
170 CHRISBA777ER : Dear me - you are new at this arent you? You didnt bother answering my question earlier about VLA demand to and from the USA - I'll presume you didnt
171 Columba : Kessje you don´t understand, this is all tactics here. Anderson just said that to get a better deal from Boeing. You are so naive sometimes,,,you wo
172 CHRISBA777ER : LOL!!! Quality post! Keesje he is right man - the thread above demonstrates all too clearly that DL cannot shed the Scarebuses quickly enough. They a
173 Enginebird : Sounds a bit harsh to me. PM's statement makes perfectly good sense if you take off your "buy American" glasses and take a look beyond the shores of
174 Columba : But still the airlines dwarfed by the large US airlines make more money despite the fact that they use aircraft from different manufacturers.........
175 JRDC930 : I realize your sarcasm, but you cant expect an airline with a very long history of being loyal to AN AMERICAN company being totally happy with manage
176 FlyDreamliner : Load factor is only one part of it. Yield is the other. I continue to argue DL will not need an A380 sized aircraft - due to their huge numbers of hu
177 Post contains links HB-IWC : Please continue this discussion in the following, more recent thread regarding Delta's future fleet policies: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...e
178 Columba : You know that the major part of AF-KLM and BA fleet consists of Boeing aircraft and that LH operates 737s and A32x side by side.
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