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United To Temporarily Suspend IAD-PEK  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26150 posts, RR: 50
Posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 11566 times:

Due market weakness, United will temporarily suspend its IAD-PEK service between Feb 1 and Mar 1, 2009.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 11243 times:

Suspended? Will it ever come back? The 787 was invented originally to fly long thin routes between East Coast USA and China, but if a city like Washington cannot support the number of Business seats that UA is offering in the market, will a smaller and more efficient 787 make any difference in some of these market pairs?

User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5373 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 10873 times:

If the route is not performing well it makes sense to temporarily cut it since UA can just route those customers through either ORD or SFO.


Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 10814 times:

Maybe they could have cut it to 3x / week or something, swapped in a 777, if they could swing it, I can't believe that with Air China on the PEK end and UA on the IAD end, and the capital-to-capital O/D they can't swing it. Oh well.


"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineOlympic472 From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 9898 times:

IAD-PEK equipment is 777. The suspension period may have to do with the lunar or chinese new year beginning on January 26, 2009. There is the usual 2 weeks of celebration where practically everything in China is shut down.


Civil Aviation has a "Need for Speed"!
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9769 times:



Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
Maybe they could have cut it to 3x / week or something

sub daily flights usually dont have very good yields


User currently offlineAirlineAddict From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9436 times:
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Quoting Olympic472 (Reply 4):
There is the usual 2 weeks of celebration where practically everything in China is shut down.

True, but isn't this when most vacation travel occurs?


User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9230 times:

Thing is....... they are not flying it for a week over Christmas as well. There is a 7 day PEK with 5 of those days a layover.

Boy how something can go full circle so fast.

[Edited 2008-11-15 06:53:43]

User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8716 times:



Quoting Olympic472 (Reply 4):
IAD-PEK equipment is 777. The suspension period may have to do with the lunar or chinese new year beginning on January 26, 2009. There is the usual 2 weeks of celebration where practically everything in China is shut down.

Huh, I guess I hadn't noticed they had switched it from 744 to 77E already. I suppose China is turning out to not be the license to print money type destinations the airlines used to think it to be.

I have always heard PEK is a very strong cargo destination, you would think this would help these flights to be profitable.

Oh well. Hopefully they can make this into a strong route again. How is CO doing on EWR-PEK? How about the two ORD-PEK flights?



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8571 times:

I am stunned....I would have thought IAD to PEK would be a sure thing. I would never have pictured it as a "thin" route, what with all the trans-Pacific traffic/cargo/etc. Of course, the fac that the Chinese economy is not doing well probably didn't help the route any.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5600 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8513 times:



Quoting Davescj (Reply 9):
I am stunned..

It's the economy. A lot of "sure things" will be disappointing over the next 18 months at least.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineOlympic472 From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 8249 times:



Quoting AirlineAddict (Reply 6):
True, but isn't this when most vacation travel occurs?

The China market is different. For vacation travels, the working folks travel back to their home (much like our Thanksgiving but 2 weeks long) or stay at home to reunite with family members. For vacation travel, I do not think the DC area is great at that time of the year.
For business travels, there is none. Everything is shut-down. Nobody will meet you unless it is important.



Civil Aviation has a "Need for Speed"!
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 8089 times:



Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 7):
Thing is....... they are not flying it for a week over Christmas as well. There is a 7 day PEK with 5 of those days a layover.

Boy how something can go full circle so fast.

I bet the crews are hating that, spending 7 days and not getting paid for 5 of them. Sure it might be nice if someone who hasn't been there before got it, but otherwise its got to suck.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 8):
Huh, I guess I hadn't noticed they had switched it from 744 to 77E already. I suppose China is turning out to not be the license to print money type destinations the airlines used to think it to be.

I think it has more to do with the fact that this route was all politcal than it was in the best view of the consumer, realistically IAD doesn't offer near the connections that DTW or any place else would, it was just because Washington was like oh.. yeah, lets do that to say we have it.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7975 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 12):
I bet the crews are hating that, spending 7 days and not getting paid for 5 of them. Sure it might be nice if someone who hasn't been there before got it, but otherwise its got to suck.

Its actually an 8 day trip with 6 days in PEK. Its only worth around 30 hours as well. I am trying to talk my mom into bidding it. It leaves the day after Christmas and gets back the 2nd. I have been there before and actually got an entire week b/c of 9/11 but still would like to go back myself  Smile


User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7808 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7942 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 12):
I think it has more to do with the fact that this route was all politcal than it was in the best view of the consumer, realistically IAD doesn't offer near the connections that DTW or any place else would

IAD offers a lot more O&D than DTW does though. IAD also offers connections to South America to which DTW has absolutely none.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7629 times:



Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 13):
Its actually an 8 day trip with 6 days in PEK.

If you combined it with some tours around the city, great wall, etc it could be a nice time.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7558 times:



Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 8):
Huh, I guess I hadn't noticed they had switched it from 744 to 77E already. I suppose China is turning out to not be the license to print money type destinations the airlines used to think it to be.

I missed this before.......

The biggest reason they did that is because they closed the 744 base at IAD. After the Olypmics and all the extra section/charter 744s flights to PEK that came with being the "official airline" of the US teams plus the parking of some of the 400s is some of main reasons for the aircraft change.

I'll tell you this, other then the odd AMC flight out of IAD in the 744, they had some of the crappiest lines IMHO. I mean you can only go to PEK and FRA so much.


User currently offlineDulleswatcher From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 41 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7545 times:

If United is having trouble on the PEK route, why not use the aircraft to open up IAD to DEL or BOM? 9W and AI royally screwed up their approach to US destinations by focusing excessively on the NYC and NJ market. They should have diversified to IAD and other solid markets. UA can avoid their mistakes and tap into a good deal of premium traffic out of IAD and India. Of course, United's crews would have to drop their reluctance to laying over in India -- something AA and CO crews seem to have overcome.


Sic Semper Tyrannis
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2240 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7415 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 14):

IAD offers a lot more O&D than DTW does though. IAD also offers connections to South America to which DTW has absolutely none.

This route SHOULD have gone to AA at D/FW and WOULD have gone to AA at D/FW had it not been for the pilots. D/FW trumps DTW and IAD in terms of connections and this would have been a money maker for the airline.

Still bitter 2 years after the fact.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7808 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7371 times:



Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 18):
Still bitter 2 years after the fact.


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Believe me, youre not the only one.


Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 18):
This route SHOULD have gone to AA at D/FW and WOULD have gone to AA at D/FW had it not been for the pilots.

I also think so. If the pilots hadnt thrown a wrench in the spokes of AA's DFW-PEK bid, they would probably have gotten it. DFW had a large connection bank (internationally and domestically) and some decent O&D.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineUA76Heavy From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7271 times:



Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 10):
It's the economy. A lot of "sure things" will be disappointing over the next 18 months at least.

Yes, both the US and Chinese economies aren't doing well and business travel is down. In fact the Chinese are putting together their own economic stimulus package due to the slowdown in trade with the US.

Quoting Olympic472 (Reply 11):
For vacation travels, the working folks travel back to their home (much like our Thanksgiving but 2 weeks long) or stay at home to reunite with family members.

During the Chinese new year, domestic travel is high in demand, even the trains are packed. Not just the working folks but nearly everyone stays within China. There's very little travel abroad (usually its parents visiting their "kids" in the US).

Quoting Dulleswatcher (Reply 17):
If United is having trouble on the PEK route, why not use the aircraft to open up IAD to DEL or BOM?

Good idea, but it appears UA has been more successful with its Asia routes through SFO and ORD. It's nice sight to see their 744s with a few 772s huddling around the international gates at SFO.


User currently offlineDaron4000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6827 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 19):
I also think so. If the pilots hadnt thrown a wrench in the spokes of AA's DFW-PEK bid, they would probably have gotten it. DFW had a large connection bank (internationally and domestically) and some decent O&D.

If that was true, AA would not have rebid for ORD-PEK nonstop, which they have now postponed for a year. I doubt that they are regretting not winning DFW-PEK.


User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7808 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6658 times:

Quoting Daron4000 (Reply 21):
If that was true, AA would not have rebid for ORD-PEK nonstop, which they have now postponed for a year. I doubt that they are regretting not winning DFW-PEK.

I guess youre not familiar with AA's relationship with their pilots.

DFW-PEK was barely outside their pilots flying limits as per their contract. As such the pilots refused to fly the route. Thats the reason they bid for ORD-PEK instead of DFW-PEK the second time.

[Edited 2008-11-15 15:08:25]


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6582 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 12):
Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 8):
Huh, I guess I hadn't noticed they had switched it from 744 to 77E already. I suppose China is turning out to not be the license to print money type destinations the airlines used to think it to be.

I think it has more to do with the fact that this route was all politcal than it was in the best view of the consumer, realistically IAD doesn't offer near the connections that DTW or any place else would, it was just because Washington was like oh.. yeah, lets do that to say we have it.

DTW yields to PVG aren't spectacular, I'm not sure why PEK would be. IAD has O/D. Also, NW is using its US frequencies to China on NRT-China flights. In my opinion, until they use those for mainland US - China nonstops, they should not be given any more.

If IAD-PEK (which is an important route in connecting two of the world's major capitols) didn't get the authorization, it would probably have gone to CO to open EWR-PVG, which would be a great flight, and CO has proven very successful to Asia from EWR.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 22):
DFW-PEK was barely outside their pilots flying limits as per their contract. As such the pilots refused to fly the route. Thats the reason they bid for ORD-PEK instead of DFW-PEK the second time.

It's leverage, the pilots can demand something in return on long flights. ORD-PVG and ORD-DEL are outside of the flying limits, the pilots granted a waiver on those flights. I'm sure they had their price on DFW-PEK too, AA balked at the pilots. IMHO, ORD-PEK is just as good, and so there should be no worries there.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2240 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6582 times:



Quoting Daron4000 (Reply 21):
If that was true, AA would not have rebid for ORD-PEK nonstop, which they have now postponed for a year. I doubt that they are regretting not winning DFW-PEK.

Well, he does raise a valid point...even though the context of the situation was two years ago, imagine if D/FW had gotten the route, would fuel conditions in the months/years following had an affect on the route and gotten it axed/suspended, like IAD? Hard to play, "what if" with history, especially a hypothetical situation, but I can kind of see where you are coming from. This summer, carriers cut a lot of capacity on routes that would SEEM profitable for big hubs (i.e. DEN-LHR, ORD-EZE, SFO-NGO) so I wonder if DFW-PEK would have been chopped along with them if it had existed.

However, as the poster above me wrote, the main reason why AA proposed ORD for the PEK bid instead of D/FW on round II was because of the pilot contracts, not because they didn't think D/FW was less capable of operating the route profitably.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
25 LAXdude1023 : Its a wash. ORD provides more O&D and is better for connections to the northeast. DFW is a larger hub, has no competition, has connections to latin A
26 JohnClipper : PEK is not PVG in any way, shape or form. SFO-PEK, ORD-PEK, IAD-PEK, DFW-PEK, EWR-PEK, LAX-PEK, JFK-PEK and SEA-PEK are all overkill...
27 United : This is true. Do you think, if awarded instead of PEK, that an IAD-PVG route would have given better loads and yields to UA? We sort of have to remem
28 PVG : No, but EWR-PVG would have been a great route for CO when the world economies were normal to good. I think that the financial "Capital to Capital" wo
29 Olympic472 : Granted that the front-of-the-plane demand is not as good as PVG. However, PEK is good for other reasons: Tourists destinations - albeit only Spring
30 Odysseus9001 : Though it sounds like the Chinese Holidays and the off-peak season in the US were probably the main driving factors, I think any place where you have
31 AADC10 : IAD-PEK was part of DOT's stupid fetish for East coast to China flights and Congress' self-importance. Most demand is in the west. UA would have proba
32 MaverickM11 : There's just not a lot of traffic to South America from China--at least not like Japan--and most of it is carried over Europe. The reality is that Ch
33 Apodino : Ok, it seems like only a year ago Airlines were fighting to the death for PEK authority, now it seems like no one wants to fly there. US delayed the s
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