Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 6798 posts, RR: 5 Posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 10619 times:
LH´s decision on the next generation long haul aircraft is still pending and the decision is postponed several times since 2006.
Since LH will very likely be in charge of the fleet decisions of OS and SN in the future and maybe even will have a word when it comes to B6 will this order even bigger as expected and cover LX, OS and SN as well ?
If so might we even see a split order for 787s and A350s ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
BrightCedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1271 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10299 times:
I'd think there is no such influence to be had at B6 and anyway B6's low-cost model requires sticking to a minimum number of types, they are already an exception in operating both Embraer and Airbus unlike WN or FR, and also unlike EZ who are transitioning between Boeing and Airbus.
At LX, OS and SN I believe they will decide at group level what the group types are, and the airlines will get this or that type depending on their specificities.
DavidkunzVIE From Austria, joined Mar 2007, 431 posts, RR: 5 Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10262 times:
IIRC, there have been rumors about a joint RJ order some years back for AC/LH/OS/SK/LX. Obviously, AC is using the E-Jets, SK went from DH4s to CR9s and ARJs, LX is still using ARJs and OS operates Fokkers. Let's hope for a little more coordination next time.
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 6798 posts, RR: 5 Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10185 times:
Quoting DavidkunzVIE (Reply 2): Obviously, AC is using the E-Jets, SK went from DH4s to CR9s and ARJs, LX is still using ARJs and OS operates Fokkers. Let's hope for a little more coordination next time.
LX will very likely get EJets from the LH order........
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
Brilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 3167 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 10035 times:
When you consider the question of longhaul aircraft I don't see much if any long haul aircraft orders. LX and SN are primaily short haul airlines with a requirement for more regional aircraft. OS has just recieved some longhaul aircraft and I don't see them needing any for the foreseeable future.
HT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6471 posts, RR: 27 Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9945 times:
Quoting Brilondon (Reply 6): LX and SN are primaily short haul airlines with a requirement for more regional aircraft.
I would not call LX a *primarily shorthaul airline*. They serve quite a considerable number of destinations on all continents except Australia. I hope this list (flights 5+ hours) is complete ...: HKG, BKK/SIN, JNB, ORD, MIA, SCL/GRU, BOS, PVG, LAX, NRT, JFK, EWR, YUL, NBO/DAR, BOM, DEL, MCT/DXB, NSI/DLA
Quoting Columba (Thread starter): Since LH will very likely be in charge of the fleet decisions of OS and SN in the future and maybe even will have a word when it comes to B6 will this order even bigger as expected and cover LX, OS and SN as well ?
This would be the logical solution.
Standardize as much as you can (while at the same time let A and B compete for the order and drive their prices down).
LXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2104 posts, RR: 4 Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9859 times:
Quoting Columba (Thread starter): If so might we even see a split order for 787s and A350s ?
IF we look at the current long haul fleet of LH it consists of only Airbus except the B744's. Currently LH has ordered the B748 which menas therre is one Boeing type already going to be part of the future LH long haul fleet. This might be completely worong but perhaps in case the B748 project of Boeing would be cancelled which I highly doubt the chance of LH going gor the B787 might be higher in order to have at least one Boeing type in it's fleet. Nevertheless I am pretty sure that no matter if LH will aquire the B787 we will definetly see A350 for LH and I'd assume LX and OS will have a fleet of only A350's.
AviationMaster From Switzerland, joined Oct 1999, 2464 posts, RR: 38 Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9793 times:
Quoting Brilondon (Reply 6): LX and SN are primaily short haul airlines with a requirement for more regional aircraft.
How is LX primarily a short haul airline, when a third of its fleet consists of long haul aircraft?
Quoting HT (Reply 7): I hope this list (flights 5+ hours) is complete ...: HKG, BKK/SIN, JNB, ORD, MIA, SCL/GRU, BOS, PVG, LAX, NRT, JFK, EWR, YUL, NBO/DAR, BOM, DEL, MCT/DXB, NSI/DLA
Almost complete ...just need to add JED/RUH.
Quoting Columba (Thread starter): LH´s decision on the next generation long haul aircraft is still pending and the decision is postponed several times since 2006.
I don't think we will be hearing from LH until the B787 has entered service and proven its capabilites.
If it will be a joint order or not? Most likely, especially in LX's case. As for SN and OS, they will most likely see future orders once they are fully integrated into the LH Group.
FlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15 Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9764 times:
We'll likely see more A330 orders out of LH for these carriers. As their A380s arrive, it is not unlikely we might see some aircraft shift out of LH and be moved over to Austrian, Brussels, or BMI to bolster their capacity. It will be interesting to see the strategy they use.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
American 767 From United States of America, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 3320 posts, RR: 14 Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 9724 times:
Quoting HT (Reply 7): I would not call LX a *primarily shorthaul airline*.
Neither is SN. They have a well developed network in Africa. It's normal, because the old Sabena was always a strong player in Africa since the 1920's.
Ben Soriano
"Aimer jusqu'a l'impossible, c'est possible". Tina Arena.
DLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3529 posts, RR: 9 Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9264 times:
Quoting Gsosbee (Reply 5): The company with the cash calls the shots. Therefore, B6 will listen very close and carefully to anything LH says.
What cash? B6 already has the money from LH, and is limited by US law as to getting much more from them. Why would LH even want to push B6 into getting equipment that might be less than optimal for their structure? That would only work against LH's financial investment in B6.
B6 will make it's decision on what aircraft suits its needs, not on the basis of LH's preferences. If there is some way LH can help B6 get a better deal on the planes it needs anyway through a joint purchase agreement, then I'm sure B6 would welcome that. Other than that scenario and the ramifications from possible pax volume increases due to a code sharing agreement, LH will have nothing to do with B6's fleet plans.
LXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2104 posts, RR: 4 Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7364 times:
Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 11): We'll likely see more A330 orders out of LH for these carriers.
My guess is that LH will increase the order of A333's for LX by 2 or 3 more planes bringing the total number up to 12. Regarding OS it is likely that they will get a mix of A333's and A332's or the ones from LX or newly ordered ones with GE engines in case the deal with LH will work which looks like it and OS will go from Boeing to Airbus
Buzzaway From Belgium, joined Dec 2007, 75 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7284 times:
Quoting American 767 (Reply 12): Quoting HT (Reply 7):
I would not call LX a *primarily shorthaul airline*.
Neither is SN. They have a well developed network in Africa. It's normal, because the old Sabena was always a strong player in Africa since the 1920's.
With only 4 longhaul aircraft on a fleet of around 50 aircraft, I'd say SN is a primarily shorthaul airline. I'm hoping for expansion though...
Gilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2880 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6763 times:
AHH HMMM...
Aren't we forgetting another airline here???
How about BMI!
I reckon they must be due a few new air frames to expand their long haul fleet! How LH is 75% owner, I would have through they will want to exploit the slots at LHR.
ZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5534 posts, RR: 40 Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6696 times:
Quoting Brilondon (Reply 6): LX and SN are primaily short haul airlines
Actually after LH, BA, AF, IB and KL is LX with its 25 long-haul frames probably the no 6 or 7 in long-haul services in Europe. At least larger than AZ, TP, SK, OS, AY etc.
Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
If so might we even see a split order for 787s and A350s ?
IF we look at the current long haul fleet of LH it consists of only Airbus except the B744's. Currently LH has ordered the B748 which menas therre is one Boeing type already going to be part of the future LH long haul fleet. This might be completely worong but perhaps in case the B748 project of Boeing would be cancelled which I highly doubt the chance of LH going gor the B787 might be higher in order to have at least one Boeing type in it's fleet. Nevertheless I am pretty sure that no matter if LH will aquire the B787 we will definetly see A350 for LH and I'd assume LX and OS will have a fleet of only A350's.
I am pretty sure that LH will not give up ordering from Boeing. The B748 order was such a thing and if I monitor right it was highly emotionally as LH didn't order planes for some 10 years at Boeing. A candidate for the 787 could be Austrian airlines with the 787-8. This is a smaller efficient plane for longhaul and less passengers, ideal for starts from Vienna. Further for the Alitalia investment (if it comes to that) out of Italy and probably from Manchaster (BMI) and Brussels (EU parlamentarial flights to NY or Washington?) for Brussels airlines.
So a lot of potential for LH's new aquisitions and a chance for Boeing when they allow early contracts like they did with AA and a chance for LH to keep Airbus rosted for pricing, as for sure the larger planes I expect them coming as a A350 variant. I further would expect LH would favourite a A360 4 holer with 4 brand new geard fans (not available yet) if somebody would announce such a variant for 2015/2016.
BOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1886 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5965 times:
Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 14): B6 will make it's decision on what aircraft suits its needs, not on the basis of LH's preferences.
Yeah. What type of aircraft would B6 be interested in anyway? Their current fleet allows them to serve both transcontinental and short-hop flights. If B6 wanted to go TATL, they could convert some of their A320 orders to A319s. But it would be B6, not LH, making that decision since LH has nothing to gain from them going TATL, unless they make a major deal. And LH wouldn't want B6 to serve the small towns like HVN or PQI either.
Quoting HT (Reply 7): They serve quite a considerable number of destinations on all continents except Australia.
I could see them giving some long-haul aircraft to BMI and SN. Everyone else, though, probably won't get too many. How much demand for long-haul from VIE do you think there is?
I feared that somebody would come up with that joke, but I neglected to exclude this continent in my original post, as it is not served by any scheduled & freely bookable carrier.
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
BOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1886 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5844 times:
Quoting HT (Reply 23): I feared that somebody would come up with that joke
Yeah, I know that joke is overused, but I couldn't resist. LX does have all the long-haul aircraft they need, aside from maybe two or three.
25 Columba: With all the new airlines under LH comtrol I really think a mixed order for 787/A350s makes much sense. The 787-8 e.g. seems too small for LH´s needs
26 ZRH: Of course at the moment. But a new order would be a replacement in a few years. When you look how long you have to wait for new ln-haul aircrafts (th
27 CHRISBA777ER: I'd expect this to go 788 and A359 and 10. Should be a hell of an order. In the immediate term I'd also expect to see BD take a couple of the ex-LH A3
28 Columba: If LH would place an order for the 787-8LX, OS, SN etc....but would not use it for LH mainline: Would the 787-8 still wear LH´s customer code: 787-8
29 CHRISBA777ER: I think LH mainline would have room for the 788 but use her as a medium-haul workhorse and for some of the thinner long-haul routes, replacing some o
30 SandroZRH: 35 A359 for LX? Now that sounds like an optimistic guess. I wonder where they´d want to park all that metal at ZRH.
31 CHRISBA777ER: They have 13 A343s and IIRC 15 A333s on order - thats 28. I think there is big potential to grow LX's fleet because of the number of major destinatio
32 Burkhard: I could not see what LH main line could do with 788. If A342 was too small a decade ago, and A332 is too small now, the same sized 788 will be too sma
33 CHRISBA777ER: I see them using it as an A300 replacement mainly - i know they are replacing them with A321s, but i can see them using 788s on the European trunk ro
34 SandroZRH: Last I heard was 15 A343 and 10 A332. The latest employees mail talked about 11 A333s on order.
35 AviationMaster: Will the additional 2 A333s be used for new destinations?
36 Beaucaire: The numbers for LX and OS seem too hight and the ones for SN to low.. Eventually LX can use about 25 -30 Longhaulers,OS with some luck 12. If SN is t
37 SandroZRH: I don´t know. LX operates 10 A332s, with 11 on order they´ll have one additional machine that could be used for expansion. This doesn´t quite offe
38 DavidkunzVIE: I'm hoping for some 787-8B8s, What a cool code.
39 PM: Strictly speaking, do LX have a Boeing code? Yes, SR did but not LX surely? Just ("just"!) 11 A333s on order at present.
40 Johnnybgoode: the A333s will replace the A332s, so there is just a small increase in the overall fleet, but not by much.
41 Burkhard: LH is known to make good usage of its aircraft, and we know that the 788th strength is long range. On shorter range is isn't more efficient than the
42 Columba: Maybe Boeing can do something to improve the 787-3s performance as this would be the only short-medium haul widebody for the time being and so far no
43 Burkhard: At this time it will have to compete with the announced short range versions of the A350.
44 AustrianZRH: LX is technically/by law a renamed Crossair. And they don't have a B-customer code according to www.airlinecodes.co.uk! However, I don't know if B wo
45 SCAT15F: As part of this new order, could LH convert the 20 options for the 748i to bring the fleet to 40?
46 Columba: Can you give more information about this ? I have not heard from a short range A350 so far ? It is very likely as LH 747 fleet chief he can see LH op
47 Gsosbee: Looks like LH wants all of B6 that they can get (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/11/19/319080/lufthansa-ceo-calls-for-loosening-of-us-owners
48 American 767: Do you see Jet Blue joining Star? I don't see that happening for two reasons: 1-Jet Blue is a carrier maintaining fares low, like Easy Jet in Europe,
49 Slz396: No surprise here really, LH's CEO Dr. Mayrhuber is known for disliking minority shareholdings. In his view, when investing serious money in an airlin
50 Slz396: Over time, I could definitely see B6 become a 'regional star member', like Adria or Croatia Airlines. Indeed, but for a regional member, standards ar
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...just need to add JED/RUH.
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