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Brazil-UK Bilateral Upgraded Again  
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3365 times:
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Brazil and UK agreed about a new increase on their bilateral agreement.

Accordingly with the new one, will be allowed up to 21 weekly flights for each side, unrestricted, and giving UK and Brazilian airlines the right to select up to 5 points in continuation of a Brazil-UK or UK-Brazil flight (like LHR-GRU/GIG-EZE/SCL/MVD) with 5th freedom rights.

Also, on IATA summer 2010, additional 14 frequencies will be available.

Considering TAM will be upgrading it's only daily frequency, the rumors in Brazil are that VS/BA requested this revision in order to allow both to offer more flights to Brazil soon.

Portuguese only
http://www.anac.gov.br/arquivos/pdf/...rdosBilaterais/R/Reino%20Unido.pdf


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSteve6666 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 413 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3254 times:

And I should d@mn well think so - might bring the prices down...

I can see BA adding GIG frequencies as the oil fields develop and possibly the return of the 234/235 3x a week to GRU.



eu nasci ha dez mil anos atras, e nao tem nada nesse mundo que eu nao saiba demais
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2515 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3227 times:

I hope BA could go daily on the LHR-GIG-LHR sector or may be switch to daily LHR-GIG-EZE-GIG-LHR and a daily dedicated LHR-GRU-LHR.


Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3018 times:
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Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 2):
I hope BA could go daily on the LHR-GIG-LHR sector or may be switch to daily LHR-GIG-EZE-GIG-LHR and a daily dedicated LHR-GRU-LHR.

Good Alternative. They also can try LHR-GIG-SCL-GIG-LHR.

Quoting Steve6666 (Reply 1):
I can see BA adding GIG frequencies as the oil fields develop

Agreed. But also the regular business plays a big role on London-Rio market. You have Glaxo, BAT, Wellstream, Lloyds of London and many other UK investments in Rio ex-Oil & Gas.

Quoting Steve6666 (Reply 1):
and possibly the return of the 234/235 3x a week to GRU.

Easy to see GRU getting an exclusive service.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineCityofAthens From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3011 times:

Good news indeed, for all parties concerned.

As for BA serving SCL ... well, I know this was served in the past as a shuttle from EZE but I can't think why they would want to fly their own metal that way when they have a code-share in place with LA from GRU (and perhaps EZE too, I can't remember). Then again, perhaps they could make some money using the 5th freedom rights? It's difficult to see how this would work out for BA given the present competition on that route (I'm assuming TAM and LA both operate to SCL).

I won't be surprised if we see VS on the GIG route, frankly I can't understand why they would serve a destination like HAV before GIG which has the benefit of business traffic rather than just tourists unless the bilateral prevented it. But then again, Virgin is the 'holiday' airline compared to BA.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2926 times:
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Quoting CityofAthens (Reply 4):
I won't be surprised if we see VS on the GIG route, frankly I can't understand why they would serve a destination like HAV before GIG which has the benefit of business traffic rather than just tourists unless the bilateral prevented it. But then again, Virgin is the 'holiday' airline compared to BA

Agree. VS could be flying to GIG since RG problems in 2006, when the bilateral was increased to 14 weekly flights.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAF086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1060 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2785 times:

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 2):
I hope BA could go daily on the LHR-GIG-LHR sector

Daily and redeye both ways would be great, specially for capturing premium traffic.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 3):
They also can try LHR-GIG-SCL-GIG-LHR.

Also a good idea since there's no airline flying GIG-SCL nonstop and LA could codeshare on that leg.

Quoting CityofAthens (Reply 4):
I won't be surprised if we see VS on the GIG route, frankly I can't understand why they would serve a destination like HAV before GIG which has the benefit of business traffic rather than just tourists unless the bilateral prevented it. But then again, Virgin is the 'holiday' airline compared to BA.

Agreed. I always wondered why VS always considered Rio being part of their "wishlist" and never did anything about that. Let's see if they finally begin a service to GIG.

[Edited 2008-11-20 09:24:07]


Please insert a "smart" joke here.
User currently offlineTheginge From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 1132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2769 times:



Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 2):
I hope BA could go daily on the LHR-GIG-LHR sector or may be switch to daily LHR-GIG-EZE-GIG-LHR and a daily dedicated LHR-GRU-LHR

They already fly daily to EZE through Sao Paulo but the suggestion of running it through Rio to free up capacity to Sao Paulo could be a good one, although I do believe they carry a lot of traffic GRU-EZE so might leave it as is.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2748 times:
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Quoting CityofAthens (Reply 4):
As for BA serving SCL ... well, I know this was served in the past as a shuttle from EZE but I can't think why they would want to fly their own metal that way when they have a code-share in place with LA from GRU (and perhaps EZE too, I can't remember). Then again, perhaps they could make some money using the 5th freedom rights? It's difficult to see how this would work out for BA given the present competition on that route (I'm assuming TAM and LA both operate to SCL).

BA's passengers already connect to LAN's services at GRU/EZE. LAN would like to fly SCL-LHR-SCL nonstop when the 787s finally arrive in 2012. Also, a tag-on from EZE or GRU to SCL will simply be a waste of time since those markets are already operating at optimal capacity. AF and AC used to fly via EZE but then dropped it and now operate as non-stops. Swiss is the only European carrier operating with a tag-on to Santiago de Chile. The flight operates ZRH-GRU-SCL-GRU-ZRH.

Quoting AF086 (Reply 6):
Also a good idea since there's no airline flying GIG-SCL nonstop and LA could codeshare on that leg.

LAN CHILE already has a codeshare in place with TAM.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2664 times:



Quoting SCL767 (Reply 8):

LAN CHILE already has a codeshare in place with TAM.

But TAM doesn's fly nonstop.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2645 times:
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Quoting C010T3 (Reply 9):
But TAM doesn's fly nonstop.

LA flies GIG-GRU-SCL 3x daily, whereby they pick up more passengers at GRU headed for SCL. The GIG-GRU segment is very short, and passengers that originate at GIG stay onboard the aircraft at GRU. LAN operates the flights in this fashion to ensure that yields remain strong. A non-stop SCL-GIG-SCL is not warranted and there is a thin market between GIG and SCL; which tends to be seasonal.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2569 times:



Quoting SCL767 (Reply 10):

LA flies GIG-GRU-SCL 3x daily, whereby they pick up more passengers at GRU headed for SCL. The GIG-GRU segment is very short, and passengers that originate at GIG stay onboard the aircraft at GRU. LAN operates the flights in this fashion to ensure that yields remain strong. A non-stop SCL-GIG-SCL is not warranted and there is a thin market between GIG and SCL; which tends to be seasonal.

Well, I'm sorry but when an airline flies somewhere three times daily, there must be a market. That move has much more to do with the fact that TAM is flying GRU-SCL with a 77W than anything else.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2521 times:
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Quoting C010T3 (Reply 11):
That move has much more to do with the fact that TAM is flying GRU-SCL with a 77W than anything else.

Umm, those flights have been routed in that fashion for years, (and on some days LAN will operate SCL-GRU 4x daily). And the market is greater to GRU than GIG from SCL. Besides, LA places its code on TAM's 77W service to SCL. LAN flies from GRU to LIM and EZE as well, and also codeshares with TAM on those flights. So I fail to see your point.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2404 times:



Quoting SCL767 (Reply 12):
Umm, those flights have been routed in that fashion for years, (and on some days LAN will operate SCL-GRU 4x daily). And the market is greater to GRU than GIG from SCL. Besides, LA places its code on TAM's 77W service to SCL. LAN flies from GRU to LIM and EZE as well, and also codeshares with TAM on those flights. So I fail to see your point.

Well, since LA seems to suffer from the same condition, I don't see how you will succeed anyway.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2394 times:
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Quoting C010T3 (Reply 13):
Well, since LA seems to suffer from the same condition, I don't see how you will succeed anyway.

What condition? LAN is growing elsewhere; along with LAN Cargo. Last quarter LAN's profits rose by 30%, and they will keep on expanding.


User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2318 times:



Quoting AF086 (Reply 6):
Daily and redeye both ways would be great, specially for capturing premium traffic.

Would be good but since day 1 of reopening the direct LHR/GIG route J has been on average 95% full. With downgrades to W being a regular occurance sometimes due to a small overbooking of just 1 or 2 pax.

Think it is a matter of time before daily flights start.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2304 times:



Quoting BALHRWWCC (Reply 15):
Would be good but since day 1 of reopening the direct LHR/GIG route J has been on average 95% full. With downgrades to W being a regular occurance sometimes due to a small overbooking of just 1 or 2 pax.

That's really great to hear. Perhaps the LHR-GIG-SCL routing could really be taken in consideration.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2301 times:
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Quoting BALHRWWCC (Reply 15):

Hopefully, BA will operate both GRU and EZE as separate nonstop flights in the future.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 16):
Perhaps the LHR-GIG-SCL routing could really be taken in consideration.

BA is currently short on aircraft.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2280 times:



Quoting SCL767 (Reply 17):

Hopefully, BA will operate both GRU and EZE as separate nonstop flights in the future.



Quoting SCL767 (Reply 17):
BA is currently short on aircraft.

You are hilarious. You hope for separate flights for GRU and EZE, but when it comes to extending GIG's already existent flight, BA is short on aircraft.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2268 times:
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Quoting C010T3 (Reply 18):

GRU and EZE are high yielding markets for BA. By flying LHR-GIG-SCL-GIG-LHR, BA will have to use another 2 a/c's; which could be used on other BA routes. Don't worry; maybe TAM or VS will fly GIG-LHR-GIG. And since LAN will eventually fly to LHR; it will also help BA with connections. BA also codeshares with IB on some routes into South America.


User currently onlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4507 posts, RR: 72
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2261 times:



Quoting SCL767 (Reply 17):
BA is currently short on aircraft.

Given the fact that BA has just parked 2 B744 frames because of overcapacity during these troubled economic times, it is kind of a stretch to believe that the airline would be short of aircraft.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2256 times:
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Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 20):
Given the fact that BA has just parked 2 B744 frames because of overcapacity during these troubled economic times, it is kind of a stretch to believe that the airline would be short of aircraft.

And slots at LHR too. BA would most likely use the 772 if they were to fly a LHR-GIG-SCL-GIG-LHR route.

[Edited 2008-11-20 21:59:13]

User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2166 times:



Quoting SCL767 (Reply 19):
And since LAN will eventually fly to LHR

We will surely have to wait a long time until their 787s arrive...


User currently offlineHotelmode From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 460 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2153 times:



Quoting SCL767 (Reply 21):
And slots at LHR too. BA would most likely use the 772 if they were to fly a LHR-GIG-SCL-GIG-LHR route.

Plenty of slots at BAs disposal at the moment. Its only an extra 4 weekly flights which is easily within present capabilitys. The GIG-SCL shuttle would add less than 12hrs to the round trip, its hardly 2 aircraft.


User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4030 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2071 times:



Quoting SCL767 (Reply 19):
GRU and EZE are high yielding markets for BA. By flying LHR-GIG-SCL-GIG-LHR, BA will have to use another 2 a/c's; which could be used on other BA routes.

Counting aircraft as whole numbers is simplistic and almost always inaccurate. Please don't do it.

BA's current LHR-GIG-LHR sees the aircraft leaving LHR 11:40 and coming back 12:55 the next day. I will add another two hours to turn it around to another flight and round up to 1.2 aircraft.

BA's GRU/EZE route sees a 21:10 departure and a return at 7:15 two days later. That is about 1.5 aircraft. The difference from the GIG flight is not an earth-shattering double. It is much less. Notice the ground time at EZE is quite generous at 3h40m.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 16):
That's really great to hear. Perhaps the LHR-GIG-SCL routing could really be taken in consideration.

Many passengers at EZE rule out BA's service because of the extra stop at GRU. Their service is not competitive. I agree their best bet on South America would be GIG-SCL and have EZE and GRU as nonstops, even if EZE has to be less than daily. But that would "growth mode" and that is not the current thinking.



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25 C010T3 : I agree, but at SCL it's a different story, since it can be out of reach for most aircraft types.
26 LipeGIG : It's not correct. LA yields and loads are good, i don't know the exact reasons for the decision, but it's not because of the market size. Largest Bra
27 SamL : My understanding (not quite sure where I got this from) is that BA asked it's key corporate customers on the EZE route whether they would prefer non-
28 Viscount724 : Do the UK-Brazil and UK-Chile bilaterals pemrit 5th freedom rights for BA on sectors between Brazil and Chile?
29 LipeGIG : UK-Brazil allows, UK-Chile probably will not be a problem considering the lack of direct services.
30 BAforever : An extension to MVD would be cool. But given that IB has just moved to 6* weekly on the MAD-MVD run then any BA passengers would probably routed to/f
31 LipeGIG : BA could run something like LHR-GIG daily GIG-PDP 1 or 2x weekly GIG-SCL 5x/6x weekly Considering PDP is a kind of leisure destination, people can st
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