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UA/CO Route Changes With CO Joining Star  
User currently offlineN104UA From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 906 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13412 times:

I was wondering if we could see either UA or CO increase frequency or a/c size between the carriers hubs with CO join Star
Such as
UA or CO DEN-EWR-763/4
UA or CO ORD-IAH-763 /4
could we see something like this?


"Learn the rules, so you know how to break them properly." -H.H. The Dalai Lama
65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4942 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13408 times:



Quoting N104UA (Thread starter):

UA or CO DEN-EWR-763/4
UA or CO ORD-IAH-763 /4

The only other Star carrier in the United States besides UA is currently US. On routes like LAX-PHL, IAD-CLT, DEN-PHX, etc. there is NO widebody service on either carrier. Therefore, I really can't see that trend changing when CO enters the alliance.

UA is the king of interhub widebody usage in the United States, but only between its OWN hubs.



Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4368 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13364 times:



Quoting San747 (Reply 1):
The only other Star carrier in the United States besides UA is currently US. On routes like LAX-PHL, IAD-CLT, DEN-PHX, etc. there is NO widebody service on either carrier. Therefore, I really can't see that trend changing when CO enters the alliance.

Comparing UA/US and UA/CO is apples and oranges because UA and CO will have a far deeper and more intricate commercial relatonship. That said, I expect little to change domestically but expect that the joint venture will reallocate some flying.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3661 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13333 times:

You may see more UA 757 flights to/from IAH and EWR rather than the 767s, especially CO's 762s and 764s.

It would be nice to know what the official timeframe of CO's transition from SkyTeam to Star would be now that DL/NW merger is underway.



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineSan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4942 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13311 times:



Quoting Avek00 (Reply 2):
Comparing UA/US and UA/CO is apples and oranges because UA and CO will have a far deeper and more intricate commercial relatonship.

How so? I admittedly know very little of the situation other than that CO is entering Star.

Quoting AznMadSci (Reply 3):
You may see more UA 757 flights to/from IAH and EWR rather than the 767s, especially CO's 762s and 764s.

That seems what is most likely to happen.



Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlineCAL764 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13297 times:



Quoting AznMadSci (Reply 3):
It would be nice to know what the official timeframe of CO's transition from SkyTeam to Star would be now that DL/NW merger is underway.

Ditto...It would be nice, but we'll learn more with time.



1. Fly to Win 2. Fund Future 3. Reliability 4. Work Together CO: Work Hard, Fly Right...
User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5170 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13208 times:



Quoting AznMadSci (Reply 3):
You may see more UA 757 flights to/from IAH and EWR rather than the 767s, especially CO's 762s and 764s.

It would be nice to know what the official timeframe of CO's transition from SkyTeam to Star would be now that DL/NW merger is underway.

That's what I expect. Currently IAH see's only 1 757 a day from UA on a DEN-IAH-ORD run; as a matter of fact, it is not even daily. We may see a constant 757 to IAH from DEN, SFO, ORD, and maybe IAD but I expect IAD will upgrade to 320. It would be great to see a 763 though - but I don't see it happening. I don't think UA uses a domestic widebody to any where except hubs and Hawaii?



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineNW From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 149 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 13044 times:

This never happened with NW/CO, wouldn't expect it with UA/CO.

User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 12923 times:

From all the news releases on UA/CO...or CO/UA....this is going far beyond membership into Star. Both carriers are actively shaking down their fleets, closing stations, relocating departments, realigning express partners...and have been for awhile using fuel as the public reason. One of the ideals they have mentioned is to rationalize real estate....joint facilities and ground handling come to mind with that announcement. While all of this supposedly stops short of a merger (and the associated union group issues, post chapt 11 tax deals, intl route authority, antitrust, credit lines, and other items) it sure does make a nice base for one down the road wouldn't it? With all that I would suspect that 'poaching' on each other's routes will be a thing of the past...that service between a CO and a UA hub will be rationalized to avoid duplication and free aircraft for new flying such as into the SE US which is the hole in both route structures.....with the emphasis on business destinations far above leisure in the near term due to the tightening of disposable income.

User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4368 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12795 times:



Quoting San747 (Reply 4):
How so? I admittedly know very little of the situation other than that CO is entering Star.

CO and UA intend to have an immunized relationship whereby all of their international flying will be operated under joint ventures involving themselves and several other Star carriers. The two carriers cannot receive immunity for the domestic market, and thus wil continue to remain competitors for domestic flying, but will have a high degree of codesharing and FF reciprocity.

UA/US is mere peanuts by comparison.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5170 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12781 times:



Quoting NW (Reply 7):
This never happened with NW/CO, wouldn't expect it with UA/CO.

The UA/CO relationship is to be more intimate than that joke of a partnership NW had with CO or CO in SkyTeam. Plus, the UA hub cities are heavier in O&D anyway than MSP, MEM, and DTW from IAH at least.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineFUN2FLY From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1035 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 12748 times:

If CO were to upgrade and routes, think 753's. 4 more coming in 2009 for CO.

User currently offlineArt at ISP From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 181 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 12558 times:

It is well known that Tilton has his sights set on selling off UA--whole or in pieces. The move of CO to Star on paper leaves US Airways out in the cold...which could portend future transactions.

I have heard that in exchange for US' vote to accept CO into Star, they gave US a 5 year membership extension, despite the fact that US service levels are not acceptable to the alliance. Also, with the deep labor discord at US, it may prove impossible for US to remain in its current form as it will be unable to fully consumate the merger with HP more than 3 years after the fact.

This is just conjecture, but I could see CO acquiring the most valuable assets of the current UA, if not the whole company, then picking the pieces of US. Another scenario would be that CO picks what it wants from UA, and the balance is sold to US, along with the United name. This is less likely because I don't see US being able to buy ANYTHING as I doubt it is viable long term in its current form.

Bottom line is that US And UA are managed by incompetents who have no goal other than to line their pockets, at the expense of both customers and employees. While UA is not as bad, US has left no stone unturned in taking away benefits from what used to be the most loyal FF base in the business, thereby alienating a significant amount of premium revenue. Given the tumult in the financial markets and the current economy these are the people they need the most--and they are FLYING out the door.

In contrast, CO is a very well managed airline, with a CEO and senior management team who not only engage customers, but LISTEN to them. While we may not agree with every decision they make, it is clear they value their employees and customers.

In the end, any resulting entity which survives would probably do well PROVIDED that CO management is calling the shots.

Fasten your seatbelts--it's going to be an INTERESTING ride.


User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 12540 times:
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the only additions we'll likely see in this new relationship is with service into DEN. CLE will probably go back to 2 or 3x a day, additional 1-2 EWR flights and maybe 1-2 IAH flights. We already have almost hourly service in ORD from all 3 hubs, and have upwards of 12 LAX-IAH flights. As for IAD, I expect CLE/IAH service will return.....particularly IAH.

With this new relationship, I expect we might see 1-2 flights dropped from the NW hubs, and maybe the DL hubs.



okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12311 times:

Will the new partnership help UA to get stronger in markets where they are currently close to nonexistence? Will it give them more salespower in marekts like Florida (like LAX/SFO-MIA) or LAX/SFO-DFW?

User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12217 times:

You won't see a widebody going domestic, at least not in CO metal (or it was a sub).

I do see CO and UA getting things a lot closer to further mesh their relationship.

[Edited 2008-11-19 08:14:23]


You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineCLE757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12133 times:

You may see CLE-ORD with mainline service on CO.


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12045 times:
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Quoting CLE757 (Reply 16):

I'm not so certain on that..........there is already 13 daily flights offered b/t UA/CO on the route, and will probably go to 14 if we add the 8pm flight bck to the CO schedule.

As shown in the MSP market, we increased flight options but shrank the size of the birds.



okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineDC8FanJet From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11679 times:



Quoting Art at ISP (Reply 12):
It is well known that Tilton has his sights set on selling off UA--whole or in pieces. The move of CO to Star on paper leaves US Airways out in the cold...which could portend future transactions.

I have heard that in exchange for US' vote to accept CO into Star, they gave US a 5 year membership extension, despite the fact that US service levels are not acceptable to the alliance. Also, with the deep labor discord at US, it may prove impossible for US to remain in its current form as it will be unable to fully consumate the merger with HP more than 3 years after the fact.

This is just conjecture, but I could see CO acquiring the most valuable assets of the current UA, if not the whole company, then picking the pieces of US. Another scenario would be that CO picks what it wants from UA, and the balance is sold to US, along with the United name. This is less likely because I don't see US being able to buy ANYTHING as I doubt it is viable long term in its current form.

Bottom line is that US And UA are managed by incompetents who have no goal other than to line their pockets, at the expense of both customers and employees. While UA is not as bad, US has left no stone unturned in taking away benefits from what used to be the most loyal FF base in the business, thereby alienating a significant amount of premium revenue. Given the tumult in the financial markets and the current economy these are the people they need the most--and they are FLYING out the door.

In contrast, CO is a very well managed airline, with a CEO and senior management team who not only engage customers, but LISTEN to them. While we may not agree with every decision they make, it is clear they value their employees and customers.

In the end, any resulting entity which survives would probably do well PROVIDED that CO management is calling the shots.

Fasten your seatbelts--it's going to be an INTERESTING ride.

Another armchair expert...A-Net has too many people posting things they know
absolutely nothing about.


User currently offlineGlobaldude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 237 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11638 times:

Anyone have any time frame info about the Anti-trust with AC-CO-LH-UA?

OR the time line transition of Co into STAR?


User currently offlineCAL764 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11374 times:



Quoting Globaldude (Reply 19):
the time line transition of Co into STAR

The only thing certain is that time will tell...with the approval of the DL/NW marrage, I believe we'll learn more soon.



1. Fly to Win 2. Fund Future 3. Reliability 4. Work Together CO: Work Hard, Fly Right...
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22865 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11340 times:



Quoting CALMSP (Reply 13):
the only additions we'll likely see in this new relationship is with service into DEN

Is there any CO loyalty left at DEN? I know it was a hub once upon a time.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5170 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 11101 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 21):
Is there any CO loyalty left at DEN? I know it was a hub once upon a time.

I'm sure their is...I know DEN-IAH carries alot of traffic for CO.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineArt at ISP From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 181 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10974 times:



Quoting DC8FanJet (Reply 18):
Another armchair expert...A-Net has too many people posting things they know
absolutely nothing about.

I would venture I know quite a bit more than you think.

I am co founder and co chair of a very large Frequent Flyer Advocacy organization and deal regularly with management of most of the legacy airlines on a direct basis.

My comments on US are based on personal experience, quotes from town hall meetings by US executives, and attempts to spin situations while sitting across a conference table from me.

We represent over 1000 members, and we have been successful in resolving a number of issues for them which would have gone unaddressed had we not intervened.

You can learn alot about a company mindset by how they treat customer complaints and issues...and my comments have a strong foundation.

I would suggest you think before you insult others.


User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10765 times:
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Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 21):

absolutely..........the performance of the DEN-IAH route is much higher than some may be willing to accept.



okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
25 NW : Was far from a joke a at it's peak and still is.
26 DC8Fanjet : And you calling UA management "incompetent" is acceptable? 1000 members-wow...
27 N104UA : I think that he was thinking that you were calling him incompetent but the UA management IS INCOMPETENT
28 Tommy767 : I would assume so. CO still has a rather large President's club in DEN. UA hopefully will beef up the EWR schedules again once CO enters Star. I woul
29 DC8FanJet : The majority of UA management folks are well qualified, hard working airline people who have seen Senior mgmt come and go, and continue to run a safe
30 Robbie86 : What do you think about international routes? You think CO might end some and code-share with UA instead, or the other way around?
31 Art at ISP : DC8 Fanjet, In the context it was presented, just about everyone else realized that the term incompetent was intended to mean Senior Management, speci
32 Sldispatcher : I wouldn't mind seeing UA Express being sent back into some COExpress strongholds in the south to pick up one or two flights a day via code share to s
33 Avek00 : International routes will be the bread-and-butter of CO and UA's cooperation. I do not expect route cuts, but rather rationalization of capacity on s
34 CALMSP : the only downside to that is not only are you dealing with delays in EWR, but also on the ORD side.....if we can keep the 737's in there we wont worr
35 Drerx7 : So the consensus is more UA 757 flying to CO hubs...?
36 Tommy767 : Thats true. I hope CO sends more 738s to O'Hare, instead of just 1-2x per day. That EWR-ORD with delays is a risk, but CO also does some turnarounds
37 STT757 : Tommy, CO has 28 737-900/ERs with an additional 48 on order, CO's 737-900ERs have roughly the same capacity as CO's 757-200s (173 & 175). The 737-900
38 ZBA2CGX : Will CO be moving from terminal 2 to 1 and share gates with UA at ORD? This would be similar to what LH has done at ORD?
39 Drerx7 : What kind of changes will happen at IAH as well? DL/NW just consolidated on the North Concourse of Terminal A where the TerminaLink is currently being
40 CALMSP : no need to move..........where would we be able to fit in 5 gates that almost require constant use??? also, we are already on the UAEX side, so we ar
41 STT757 : CALMSP, Any word on the President Club situation at ORD, currently CO shares a club with NWA.
42 CAL : I would guess that NW would move into the Crown Room club at Concourse L and Continental would fully take over the club in the E concourse and make it
43 CALMSP : I'm not to sure on that...........one would think that NW might move over to the DL gates, but i'm not sure what real estate is over there having nev
44 EMB170 : Apparently this is the problem that everyone's debating...what will/should SkyTeam do at ORD in order to make life easy for everyone. If NW were put
45 Cubsrule : AA needs the 772 parking; it would be extremely disruptive to their operations to lose those 5 gates (4,6, and 8 in particular; 1 and 2 are, IIRC, na
46 United1 : 6 or 7 gates, depending on how DL/NW schedules their flights, would be more then enough. DL & NW combined have around 48 daily flights out of ORD. DL
47 CALMSP : we're not necessarily talking about connections b/t DL/NW............when they become one, they will not have a split operation, so they mine as well
48 Cubsrule : CO really doesn't need 4 gates most of the day, and the gatehouses at the low C gates aren't sufficinet for mainline. Furthermore, moving S5 to E wou
49 United1 : No CO doesn't realy need 4 but that is what they have at the moment over in E, as for the gatehouses in C not working for mainline aircraft UA operat
50 Cubsrule : But it's not like they changed it at all when they went from mainline to Express. The seating just became sufficient. Why move AC? They have the best
51 United1 : I'ts an option just to consolidate all of the UAEX operations together on one side of E (and of course if they moved US all of F.) It does get a bit
52 Cubsrule : I'd have to count parking stands, but I'm not sure that it's an option. They REALLY cram aircraft in on F.
53 United1 : Sorry I could not have been more unlcear in my statement if I had tried UAEX would have all of F and E1-E3 (E10 I think as well) if they moved US/AC
54 Cubsrule : That makes more sense now... the one issue I see there is Business 1, which supposedly uses B only (though the Express flights to Business 1 destinat
55 Falcon84 : Hearing it will be 4th Quarter in '09. Possibly. CO has no desire to swallow UA whole, but it may take some of the valuable assets if UA wants to unl
56 Justloveplanes : I am wondering if the new code sharing with UA (not the other alliance members) will include the ability to upgrade on either carrier using points and
57 United1 : Early info coming out is absolutely it will
58 Drerx7 : Just an interesting note to add to this thread - UA has two 757s daily to DEN and ORD also has a 757 to/from IAH during most days in December. I don't
59 Tpaewr : After ATI, I could imagine 3 cabin UA (or LH) metal flying EWR-LHR. Not unlike AF JFK-LHR with DL.
60 Intermodal64 : Sounds like you haven't flown US very much lately. I fly US and AA each about every month and hold elite status with both. Over the past year US has
61 Enilria : Any idea which alliance COPA will end up with? Divorces are always saddest for the children!
62 Hiflyer : I believe COPA may come to Star....along with TACA.....both carriers. Skyteam is going to be down to 8 or so carriers after NW/DL and CO leaving and c
63 Post contains links NYC2theworld : Flightglobal is reporting that TACA and Copa are going to Star. - http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-and-taca-poised-to-join-star.html
64 Enilria : " target=_blank>http://www.flightglobal.com/articles....html I guess that's not surprising. Does CO still own part of COPA or did they sell all of th
65 Enilria : " target=_blank>http://www.flightglobal.com/articles....html Good article. Thanks I wonder if Aeromexico will leave as well? There isn't much reason
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