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AC FO Turned Belligerent - Flight Diverted  
User currently offlineZBBYLW From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 1993 posts, RR: 6
Posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9639 times:

Took a quick look could not find this posted elsewhere:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/08111...da/ireland_canada_britain_aviation

This is the 2nd AC pilot to go off his rockers in recent memories, must not be looking forward to contract negotiations.

In all seriousness I wish the best for this FO and hope he can get his personal life straightened out soon. I guess he is done as far as his aviation career.


Keep the shinny side up!
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25983 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9514 times:



Quoting ZBBYLW (Thread starter):
This is the 2nd AC pilot to go off his rockers in recent memories, must not be looking forward to contract negotiations.

Looks like you didn't read the news item you posted. It's referring to the Irish report on the AC incident last January that was the subject of an A.net thread at the time.

Link to the report:
http://www.aaiu.ie/upload/general/11139-0.pdf


User currently offlineZBBYLW From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 1993 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9460 times:

Damn - I just saw it on the news too and then found this link which was posted 2 hours ago... Disregard


Keep the shinny side up!
User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4916 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9348 times:

This article makes me curious, how many FAs are there out their that hold commercial licenses? Probably not very many...

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2185 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9227 times:



Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
This article makes me curious, how many FAs are there out their that hold commercial licenses? Probably not very many...

You'd be surprised. While I have no hard figures for you, I can share anecdotal evidence that I know several dozen working with major carriers. Lord knows a low-time pilot doesn't earn as much as an FA.



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineArcrftLvr From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9175 times:

Why is it now being reported, 10 months later?

Also, did they ever disclose what caused the FO to become belligerent?


User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2185 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9145 times:



Quoting ArcrftLvr (Reply 5):
Why is it now being reported, 10 months later?

I think it's just the release of the official report. It seems cut n dry, but these things tend to take a while. But I agree, the article was written in a confusing manner.



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineACFA From Canada, joined Feb 2007, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9035 times:



Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
This article makes me curious, how many FAs are there out their that hold commercial licenses?

I do. And I can name a bunch of FAs at my company that do as well.


User currently offlineType-Rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9009 times:



Quoting ArcrftLvr (Reply 5):
Also, did they ever disclose what caused the FO to become belligerent?

No, the report didn't indicate what caused the F/O to become medically unfit. It sounds to me like it could have been a stroke or something like that. But that's only conjecture.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25983 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8796 times:



Quoting ArcrftLvr (Reply 5):
Why is it now being reported, 10 months later?

You didn't read the news story. It's covering the report just issued by the Irish air safety authority on the incident that occurred last January. Those types of reports are often issued long after the incident.


User currently offlineSkyyKat From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8748 times:

the Cpt did the right thing... I wish the best for the FO.... God knows we all go through some tough times.... After my last relationship ended I think I was drunk for a month. I hope he is not fired and gets a second chance.

But if he cant handle himself it is better that he is let go, for public saftey. there is so many issues that can affect a person, it would be sad after a life time of flying and the end of another persons passion and life...

There are so many things that can really mess up a person, sometimes beyond their control.


User currently offlineArcrftLvr From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8624 times:



Quoting SkyyKat (Reply 10):
the Cpt did the right thing... I wish the best for the FO.... God knows we all go through some tough times.... After my last relationship ended I think I was drunk for a month. I hope he is not fired and gets a second chance.

But if he cant handle himself it is better that he is let go, for public saftey. there is so many issues that can affect a person, it would be sad after a life time of flying and the end of another persons passion and life...

There are so many things that can really mess up a person, sometimes beyond their control.

I'm not sure I understand? Are you saying you think it was an emotional problem, potentially brought on by a breakup of some sort? And that he was drunk? How do you know this? Or, are you purely speculating? If so, please qualify that in your post.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):
You didn't read the news story.

Ummm, yes I did. Where in the story does it state that 'It's covering the report just issued by the Irish air safety authority on the incident that occurred last January'...I didn't see it.


User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8587 times:



Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
This article makes me curious, how many FAs are there out their that hold commercial licenses? Probably not very many...

I know maybe a dozen or so even more with PPL and other certificates.

Quoting ArcrftLvr (Reply 11):
I'm not sure I understand? Are you saying you think it was an emotional problem, potentially brought on by a breakup of some sort? And that he was drunk? How do you know this? Or, are you purely speculating? If so, please qualify that in your post.

Yeah, from what I read it sounded physiological not psychological.


User currently offlineADXMatt From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 954 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8535 times:

...an official report said on Wednesday.....


The plane made an emergency diversion to Shannon airport in Ireland on January 28 after the co-pilot had to be removed from the cockpit by crew members when he became "belligerent and uncooperative", it said.

Quoting ZBBYLW (Thread starter):
This is the 2nd AC pilot to go off his rockers in recent memories

It's the same guy.... just now the official report.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13195 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8437 times:

Reading another article via MSNBC.com on the January incident, the underheadline was that the co-pilot had a 'mental breakdown'.
He arrived late to his seat, missing some pre-flight procedures, didn't seem to be fully 'there'. Then he took somewhat more than usual time away from his post in the bathroom, getting some rest. Then he apparently became more erratic in his beheavior. Then the pilot called all the FA's into to cockpit to restrain the co-pilot. A (female) FA who has a commercial rating license (although her instrument rating was not up to date) took the 2nd seat and per the pilot in the report, performed very well. Upon landing in Shannon, the co-pilot was hospitalized for 11 days, then returned to Canada in an air ambulance.
As to what happened while hospitalized or the names of the crew members were not fully disclosed due to privacy laws. The co-pilot was I recall 58 years old, had many thousand's of hours of flying experience including in 767's, and a good record.
Yes, these things can happen anytime, anyplace to anyone, but we have a problem when it happens at 30K feet/9500 metes. It could have been the use of a sleep drug (some have some bad side effects), some other legal drug or a sudden stroke or other physical problem.


User currently offlineMedAv From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 80 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8384 times:

Gotta love media people who write about aviation events and have no idea what's going on.

Quote:

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2008/11/co-pilot-had-br.html

Co-pilot had breakdown, so stewardess helped land jumbo jet

Fasten your seat belt for this mile-high tale:

The co-pilot of an Air Canada Boeing 767 had a nervous breakdown midair and had to be restrained and sedated. A female flight attendant (with an expired license for reading airplane instruments) then helped the pilot make an emergency landing in Ireland.


Always going for the dramatic. Ooooh, stewardess "helps land a plane", wowee. Oooooh, the stewardess only had a expired license for "reading airplane instruments"? wtf!


User currently offlineSkyyKat From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8298 times:



Quoting ArcrftLvr (Reply 11):
Or, are you purely speculating?

Yes I am. We dont know what caused this FO to go nuts....Who knows?


User currently offlineAFGMEL From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 747 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8215 times:

This is interesting. I was talking to a 744 (QF) pilot a couple of years ago and I asked him if his Captain were to become sick, would he prefer to have a PPL at least next to him who could at least read checklists and possibly work the radio.

His take was that they would be in the way and he would be distracted. He would rather get a very long final and fly straight in and have plenty of time.



B 727-44/200 732/3/4/8/9 767-3 742/3/4, 772/3, A319/20/21 332/333 342/3 , DC3/4/10, F28/50/100, ATR72
User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3993 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8066 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting SkyyKat (Reply 16):
Yes I am. We dont know what caused this FO to go nuts....Who knows?

I don't know. Probably it's something that really bothered him. Maybe he had a big argument with his wife before the flight, maybe he just divorced, maybe he has problems with his insurances, maybe his son was involved in a dramatic car accident, maybe he didn't have much sleep lately...of course I don't know anything, none of that is my business, it's his private life. What concerns us is the fact he misbehaved professionally in his pilot career while on duty and for safety reasons, he should be suspended from flying for the airlines. He can fly, but only privately on his own, if he wants.

I wrote a short article in my blog:
http://ben-aviationnews.blogspot.com/

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineArmitageShanks From UK - England, joined Dec 2003, 3645 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7964 times:



Quoting American 767 (Reply 18):
I don't know. Probably it's something that really bothered him. Maybe he had a big argument with his wife before the flight, maybe he just divorced, maybe he has problems with his insurances, maybe his son was involved in a dramatic car accident, maybe he didn't have much sleep lately...of course I don't know anything, none of that is my business, it's his private life

People don't become unresponsive and incapacitated because of a simple argument with the wife or an accident involving a loved one unless there's underlying physical/psychological issues. Him being drunk or high on just about anything rules out an 11+ day stay in a hospital.

I'm no doctor but I suspect him having spent numerous days in the hospital in Ireland, having to take an air ambulance home, and who knows how many more days in Hospital in Canada points more towards a brain injury or some psychotic break- with the latter more likely. Often people can "hold on" for so long until it becomes too much and change, literally in a day, from a completely sane person to a psychotic mess.


User currently offlineBoeing747_600 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7710 times:



Quoting AFGMEL (Reply 17):
His take was that they would be in the way and he would be distracted. He would rather get a very long final and fly straight in and have plenty of time.

The QF captain is quite right. A novice PNF (yes that includes you PPLs in the flight deck of a passenger jet) stumbling upon a detail and asking for clarification on a technical point is the LAST thing a PF needs during an emergency/ contingency situation.


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6991 posts, RR: 63
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7584 times:

This made me look up the 1972 BEA Trident crash. That wasn't a happy flight deck either.  Sad

User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8690 posts, RR: 16
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5364 times:

Kudos to the f/a and am glad the captain chose to divert rather than risk the chance of having an accident. Some time ago there was a captain who died of a heart attack and a guy in his mid 40's assisted in the landing of the CO flight to IAH.

Hunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4916 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5237 times:



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 4):
You'd be surprised. While I have no hard figures for you, I can share anecdotal evidence that I know several dozen working with major carriers. Lord knows a low-time pilot doesn't earn as much as an FA.



Quoting FA" class=quote target=_blank>ACFA (Reply 7):
I do. And I can name a bunch of FAs at my company that do as well.



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 12):

I know maybe a dozen or so even more with PPL and other certificates.

Commercial licenses? Wow I had no idea this was at all common. Why not take off to the desert EK, EY and QR are always looking  Smile

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineAdam42185 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 416 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4840 times:

I love the ignorance of the media.... they talk about this incident involving a 767 but on the website i just looked at on cnn the had a picture of an A340..... at least they got the airline right...

Ill post the link, i wonder if they'll edit it... probably not.

I am aware, however, that most people cant tell the difference, and so the media doesn't particularly care, but I wish they would get things right.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe...1/19/pilot.breakdown.ap/index.html


25 IAirAllie : I wouldn't call it common but I wouldn't call it rare. Several reasons to answer your question... a) a lot of female pilots aren't comfortable workin
26 PlanenutzTB : If I remember correctly this is the second time in the last couple of years a passenger or flight crew member with a PPL was pulled out of the back t
27 Post contains links OPNLguy : It was back in January of 2007, and they were enroute IAH-PVR. They were not too deeply into Mexican airspace, and they did a 180 back northward to M
28 RFields5421 : The exact wording from the report: You can achieve this level of qualification in the US in a Piper Tomahawk, or a Beech Baron. Quite a few people ha
29 RFields5421 : Here is another point missing or perhaps purposely misstated in the news stories. Concerning the FO no arriving in the cockpit until after the checks
30 Post contains links Kaitak : Very difficult call; I do wish him well and maybe he'll be able to get a ground job, but I doubt if AC could take the risk, particularly if he's invo
31 Dalb777 : If this was a flight across the Atlantic, why was there no relief (3rd) pilot? I guess the flight was under the minimum flight time to require a relie
32 BCAL : I am sorry but I cannot see any comparisons between the BEA Trident crash in 1972 and the AC incident. For starters, it is not believed the Trident c
33 Viscount724 : From the 3rd paragraph. Agree, it's easy to overlook. The plane made an emergency diversion to Shannon airport in Ireland on January 28
34 PM : Well, what I had in mind was the similarity in that in both cases it seems that a pilot became incapacitated. One story ended happily and one didn't.
35 Threepoint : Because the carriers you mention require many thousands of hours logged and PIC in heavy jets, with a good measure of glass cockpit time thrown in. Y
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