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Mandatory Extra Seats For The Obese  
User currently offlineYYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 8631 times:
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From Article:

OTTAWA – The Supreme Court of Canada has put its stamp of approval on a regulatory order forcing major airlines to provide an extra seat for free to disabled or obese passengers who need the room.... That would mean, for example, that a disabled person who needs additional room for a wheelchair, or an obese person who needs an additional seat, couldn't be charged extra.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/540345


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69 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17428 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 8605 times:

This is nuts...how do you implement something like this? Ask the customer for documentation that they're morbidly obese when they buy the ticket?


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineCokePopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1179 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 8584 times:



Quoting YYZatcboy (Thread starter):
That would mean, for example, that a disabled person who needs additional room for a wheelchair, or an obese person who needs an additional seat, couldn't be charged extra.

Just imagine how many people will claim they are obese just to get the extra room. Glad this is in Canada and not the U.S.


User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2010 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week ago) and read 8515 times:

What a crock of crap! Why should the airline have to give up the revenue of that extra seat and give it away for free just because someone can't take good enough care of themselves to stay fit (disclosure: I am well aware that there are some isolated cases where the person can't help it).


Good goes around!
User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week ago) and read 8514 times:



Quoting CokePopper (Reply 2):
Glad this is in Canada and not the U.S.

Not yet. This sounds like something a judge would order an airline (or bus company, or AMTRAK, etc.) to do in the name of the Americans with Disabilities Act.

This could get out of hand in a big hurry.



Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week ago) and read 8461 times:
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Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 3):
What a crock of crap! Why should the airline have to give up the revenue of that extra seat and give it away for free just because someone can't take good enough care of themselves to stay fit (disclosure: I am well aware that there are some isolated cases where the person can't help it).

I agree. On the other hand, why should I have to check my only piece of "regulation size carry-on" because some space hog took all the bin space with 2 oversized bags; just because he/she is too lazy to wait at baggage claim?! Please don't give me: "I'm not checking bags because the airline have lost/destroyed so many of my bags."

I'm overweight and if needed I will buy a larger seat in premium classes or an extra seat in Y-class, in order not to inconvenience a fellow passenger or myself. My being overweight is my own fault and I take responsilibilty for that. Therefore I'm expecting the same from people that demand extra cabin bin space for their own convenience.


Rgds, SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2010 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week ago) and read 8457 times:



Quoting SA7700 (Reply 5):
why should I have to check my only piece of "regulation size carry-on" because some space hog took all the bin space with 2 oversized bags; just because he/she is too lazy to wait at baggage claim?!

As a flight attendant, I totally couldn't agree with you more!! The things people tote into the cabin and expect to find space for are ridiculous. I am very adament about my passengers (if they have 2 items) placing one under the seat and one in the bin. It's only fair. They really need to be better at the gate as well to make sure people are only taking what they're allowed to on board.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week ago) and read 8450 times:



Quoting SA7700 (Reply 5):
Therefore I'm expecting the same from people that demand extra cabin bin space for their own convenience.

...and what do you realistically think are the chances of either willingly happening, on any appreciable scale?


User currently offlineYYZYYT From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 948 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week ago) and read 8412 times:



Quoting CokePopper (Reply 2):
Just imagine how many people will claim they are obese just to get the extra room. Glad this is in Canada and not the U.S.



Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 3):
What a crock of crap! Why should the airline have to give up the revenue of that extra seat and give it away for free just because someone can't take good enough care of themselves to stay fit (disclosure: I am well aware that there are some isolated cases where the person can't help it).

The end of the road on this case - the Federal Court of Appeal has previously refused an application for leave to appeal, and now the Supreme Court refused leave to appeal that decision. 3 commissioners and now 6 appellate judges reviewed the evidence and made a ruling as to what is fair and just.

This has been hashed out at least once in a heated (at times nasty) thread, so let's not go there again please.


User currently offlineFrmrCAPCADET From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1714 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8308 times:

When you buy a ticket you are essentially buying a certain number of square feet (meters) . My wish is that airlines would in Y have a variety of sizes priced at a constant rate. I realize that there is a practical limit to how they divy up the space, but they could do a lot better job than they do. I would always opt (and pay for) for extra legroom. An obese person, a very tall person would have first dibs at the bigger seats/pitch, and if it were 20% more realestate they would pay 20% more.


Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8291 times:
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Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 7):
and what do you realistically think are the chances of either willingly happening, on any appreciable scale?

Sadly Fred, I think it is wishfull thinking. However, somewhere someone has to draw an appreciable line. From a USA visitor's point of view: Both USA airlines (except WN, I think) and pax need to "give". IMHO charging for checked baggage, even with the fuel of price way down, is simply not on. Airlines that can not survive without this type of "revenue stream" should be left to die. On the other hand, pax should be subject to cabin baggage restrictions as well as extra seat costs (WN type of style) if they infringe fellow pax seat space.



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21507 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8288 times:

And once again the tall people don't get jack.

Airlines should be forced to provide extra legroom for tall people at no charge. If this means putting them in exit rows or business class or whatever, so be it. Maybe it'll just prompt them to stop with the 31" pitch and have more airlines offer 33"...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineKaneporta1 From Greece, joined May 2005, 739 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8263 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
And once again the tall people don't get jack.

Airlines should be forced to provide extra legroom for tall people at no charge. If this means putting them in exit rows or business class or whatever, so be it. Maybe it'll just prompt them to stop with the 31" pitch and have more airlines offer 33"...

Amen to that...



I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather, not terrified and screaming, like his passengers
User currently offlineEnginebird From United States of America, joined May 2007, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8185 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
And once again the tall people don't get jack.

Airlines should be forced to provide extra legroom for tall people at no charge.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

I have not always agreed with everything you said, but could not agree with you more on this one (if you are not being sarcastic). For health reasons airlines should be forced to give people at least bearable legroom, be it for avoidance of DVT or otherwise. This would mean at least 32 or 33 pitch as standard configuration for a start.


User currently offlineNovak500 From Canada, joined Dec 2007, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8039 times:



Quoting CokePopper (Reply 2):
Glad this is in Canada and not the U.S.

What would happen if an obese person books a ticket on aircanada.com from YYZ to ORD and the flight is operated by United.

Would the person get access to the second seat?


User currently offlineJOEYCAPPS From Italy, joined Jul 2008, 205 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7969 times:

I'm 6'6". Thats a disability, I can't choose my height.
I used to weight 340 pounds, and I'm down to 215. That was a "disability". I chose my lifestyle.
If I won't get more legroom, I'm not sacrificing my seat for anything.

Fairness is a two way street. Thats like everything else. I don't care what the problem is. If you're obese like I was, you can BUY another seat. Your alternative is to buy another seat, just like my alternative is to fly business or first for legroom.

Sorry if that offended anyone, but I've been at every end of the spectrum.


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7931 times:



Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 3):
and give it away for free just because someone can't take good enough care of themselves to stay fit (disclosure: I am well aware that there are some isolated cases where the person can't help it).

Then, in which case, don't be making a generalised comment.

Quoting Novak500 (Reply 14):
Would the person get access to the second seat?

Yes, they would have to.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
And once again the tall people don't get jack.

Airlines should be forced to provide extra legroom for tall people at no charge.

Whilst it certainly doesn't apply to myself, I can somewhat agree with your point. However though, it is still a slightly different situation in that it cannot really be said that it is 'unbearable' for a tallish person to sit in a standard pitched seat. Indeed, those pax can avail of an exit-row seat for the circumstances and which doesn't apply to the subject in question. Also, after what specific point is 'tall'?


User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7912 times:

I can only understand if they have some type of documentation that states they are obese, not because they eat like no other, but because of a serious problem. While it's not that common there are some people who have some type of peoblem that causes them to gain a lot of weight through no fault of their own. That I understand.

But to give away my seat because a large man or woman wanted to sit in the seat next to me and can't fit in one seat is rediculous. They should be required to purchase two seats if they can not fit within their own seat, with the armrest down! I had to sit next to a lady who was rather large, I had the window seat and she kept pulling up the armrest meaning she was almost half way on my seat and had me squished up against the window for three hours. That's unacceptable, if you can't fit in a seat you should have to buy another one, don't take up some of my seat!


User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7811 times:

Ok...I am left handed and I must have an aisle seat on the right side so that it caters to left handed people. No..wait a minute...I have hemorrhoids and I need a seat with a cushion to accomodate. No...wait a minute....I have a broken ankle and I must have a first class seat for the price of coach to accommodate my temporary disability. No..wait a minute...I have a doctors note saying I must have an aisle seat....no it's a bulkhead seat. No...wait a minute...the doctor said I must have an exit row for the legroom for my bad leg.

My gate agents have heard them all....and folks wonder why they may be a bit cynical?


User currently offlineArcrftLvr From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7773 times:



Quoting YYZatcboy (Thread starter):
provide an extra seat for free to disabled or obese passengers who need the room

This sets a very very dangerous prescedent. I hope the US does not follow suit. How did obese people get the same priviliges as the disabled? It's a sad sad world we live in....

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
And once again the tall people don't get jack.

Airlines should be forced to provide extra legroom for tall people at no charge. If this means putting them in exit rows or business class or whatever, so be it. Maybe it'll just prompt them to stop with the 31" pitch and have more airlines offer 33"...

Amen!


User currently offlineJlbmedia From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7729 times:
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Quoting DL767captain (Reply 17):
I can only understand if they have some type of documentation that states they are obese, not because they eat like no other, but because of a serious problem.

Who in the H--L gives you the power to "Understand" me or not? Do I have to carry a note around from my MD. in case I sit next to you, so you can understand?

You could be lucky to sit next to me. You see I am over weight. I always buy two seats, for both my and your comfort. But sometimes, if I board first, I will sit in the middle seat just to see your face as you get closer and see that you might have to sit next to me. If you are polite, I will sit in the window seat and you will have an open seat next to you, on me, for the entire flight. If you are ignorant, which your post makes me think you are, unless of course you have documentation to prove otherwise. I will stay in the middle seat, and spill over onto "my" window seat for the entire flight, or until you move your seat, if one is available. If that happens then I get a whole row to myself...yee-haa.

Remember, not all fat people are smiling, jolly nice people. John. Big grin



JLB54061
User currently offlineArcrftLvr From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7661 times:



Quoting Jlbmedia (Reply 20):
You could be lucky to sit next to me. You see I am over weight. I always buy two seats, for both my and your comfort. But sometimes, if I board first, I will sit in the middle seat just to see your face as you get closer and see that you might have to sit next to me. If you are polite, I will sit in the window seat and you will have an open seat next to you, on me, for the entire flight. If you are ignorant, which your post makes me think you are, unless of course you have documentation to prove otherwise. I will stay in the middle seat, and spill over onto "my" window seat for the entire flight, or until you move your seat, if one is available. If that happens then I get a whole row to myself...yee-haa.

I hope this was tongue-in-cheek...


User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7635 times:



Quoting ArcrftLvr (Reply 22):
I hope this was tongue-in-cheek...

Uh perhaps the word 'cheek' may not be appropriate in this conversation regarding seating space??


 rotfl   rotfl 


User currently offlineNwarooster From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1081 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7279 times:
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I can see it for the disabled. However, FATSO can buy an extra seat.  old 

User currently offlineLuv2cattlecall From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7223 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
And once again the tall people don't get jack.

Airlines should be forced to provide extra legroom for tall people at no charge. If this means putting them in exit rows or business class or whatever, so be it. Maybe it'll just prompt them to stop with the 31" pitch and have more airlines offer 33"...



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 16):

Whilst it certainly doesn't apply to myself, I can somewhat agree with your point. However though, it is still a slightly different situation in that it cannot really be said that it is 'unbearable' for a tallish person to sit in a standard pitched seat.

How so? Just as a really obese person can't contain their body on the seat, us tall folk can't contain our legs in the seating area....the way I deal with it is by flying WN (a-list), B6 (EML) or FL Row 10/biz class as much as possible... I truly would consider it unbearable to sit in a standard econ seat... Infact, on a coach class trip awhile back, a VS FA woke me up and said that she would feel bad if she allowed me to be aching the next day so I should "sneak" on up to Y+...

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 16):
Then, in which case, don't be making a generalised comment.

To be fair, saying that being tall is a non-issue is a bit of a generalization as well...

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 16):
Also, after what specific point is 'tall'?

We can calculate that the same way we figure out what makes one too obese for one seat..



When you have to breaststroke to your connecting flight...it's a crash!
25 WNCrew : I feel for the TALL pax, their stature is NOT as a result of poor lifestyle choice. I think it's funny when someone my height (5'5") sits in row 1 or
26 WunalaYann : Absolutely. And what about people who are simply muscularly big? I mean, I am 1m82 (6') and weigh 85 kgs (189 lbs) but with roughly 11% body fat. I d
27 DeltAirlines : Maybe it's because I fly Delta (assigned seats) versus Southwest (unassigned seats), but I don't think it's fair. I'm a shade under 5'6", 140 lbs. Ne
28 SA7700 : I have yet to encounter a true professional rugby player that can not afford a premium class seat. Rgds, SA7700
29 DL767captain : I in no way meant that i can't understand an obese person and what it means, i have family members that aren't exactly small. What i meant by "I can
30 Mir : I'm 6'1", which isn't abnormally tall by any stretch of the imagination, but I still have trouble fitting into airline seats at times. I did not choo
31 AFGMEL : While I am definitely chunky, but at 6'4" my biggest problem is legroom (I have long legs as a proportion of height) and shoulder room. It's not my st
32 ExFATboy : Fortunately, so far the courts have taken a very dim view of treating obesity as a "disability" under the ADA. We can only hope it stays that way. We
33 Jlbmedia : DL767captin,Thank you for explaining, I have multiple medical problems and realized today that I must wait longer for a transplant. So my mood has no
34 ADXMatt : No... the article stated domestic flights in Canada.
35 BALHRWWCC : Ok if their is a true medical reason for being obese and it can be backed up with a doctors letter then OK. However a free extra seat because they hav
36 FrmrCAPCADET : Actually it is none of our business how or why someone else does not fit into their assigned seat. It is their business to be sure not to seriously im
37 HowSwedeitis : I feel the same way. I am all for disabled rights, but what's next? Obese Parking? It's bad enough with the "Expectant Mothers" parking. (*Which by t
38 Platinumfoota : Anyone heard of UA's Economy Plus?? Sure makes a difference to me
39 UAL757 : Fat people should buy an extra seat. Fat people should buy an EXTRA SEAT!!!!! It's their fault and not the airlines to accommodate them and lose money
40 Doug_Or : If you're tall. The seats are same width, are they not? Doesn't do much good in keeping the handles on the correct side of the armrest. the problem w
41 ComeAndGo : for 77 cents ?? Your airlines looses money ?? Get a life.
42 Enginebird : Why not? There are airlines that have a seat pitch smaller than the length of the bone in my my thigh! It's certainly unbearable to fly on their plan
43 AF1624 : It's a load of crap to me. If you're obese, it's basically your fault. Deal with it, pay the consequences. If the obesity is linked to a disease, than
44 DocLightning : The City of Ann Arbor Michigan has a strict policy that "Obesity is not a disability." This applies to public transport, etc. An airliner seat is pret
45 Flexo : Being 6'9" I would be extremely happy about that. But I would even be willing to pay extra for extra leg room, but not the ridiculous price differenc
46 Art : What a refreshing piece of honesty and integrity. Good on you!
47 SpeedBirdA380 : And I thought I had it bad. I am a mere 6 feet tall and I find economy unbearable. At 6"9 I just dont know how you would cope in Economy class! Yes a
48 AWACSooner : What about narcoleptic people? Should airlines now be forced to give them an entire row to sleep in? (yes, it's tongue-in-cheek)
49 Enginebird : Exactly, a law protecting the health of tall people. Same here. I would be happy to pay up to 30% more for 30% more legroom, but usually anything bet
50 Ajd1992 : That's ridiculous. I've been that obese person at one stage (admittedly, I was only 14 but even so, I was getting on for nearly 15 stone/190lbs, and a
51 Goaliemn : you've never had someone in front of you keep jamming their seat back to try to make it recline as it keeps bouncing off your knees I do think airlin
52 ArcrftLvr : That's a pretty arrogant statement. Enjoy your legroom. I'll just knee you in the back and fiddle with my tray table THE ENTIRE FLIGHT. I win! I do t
53 Jetdeltamsy : Well, i'm not large so i don't know how these folks "feel" about their size. It doesn't make sense to me for the burden or supplying a supersized prod
54 Ikramerica : Well, I was more making this comment toungue in cheek based on the obsurdity of forcing airlines to provide free services to people who are fat, beca
55 CB97 : Why should a private business be forced to absorb the extra cost of transporting someone who does not fit into their seat like the other 90 or 95% of
56 Ikramerica : This would save my family a lot of money. My Dad needs an aide to get him around due to MS and the loss of mobility among other problems, and he flie
57 EWRCabincrew : I second that. Good one. Related to this, if this were to pan out, work with me here, and obese people get that second seat, if they fall into my sea
58 Ikramerica : Forget the fat people. What about the guy who uses all of the armrest and leans his shoulder into my space. Or spreads out his legs into my foot spac
59 EWRCabincrew : I had a guy seated next to me who wanted that armrest space bad. We semi-fought for the precious space on and off. With about 1:45 left in flight, he
60 Ikramerica : Totally. I've seen that. Usually though you can negotiate this unspoken agreement where one of you can use the back half for your elbow and the other
61 JOEYCAPPS : First of all, very sorry to hear that. But I have to say... your father doesn't get that treatment, because he has a REAL disease in which he did not
62 Enginebird : But how about the tall people who need more legroom without them electing to become tall by leading a certain life-style you do not approve of? Make
63 Brilondon : That is why they have business and first class. This is so true, although they will still want to get the same revenue from the plane. Having 33" pit
64 JOEYCAPPS : The quote you chose was flawed by design, let me rephrase.... I have no problem with obese pax purchasing a second seat. But I do have a problem with
65 FrmrCAPCADET : I would say that making Y uncomfortable is indeed part of the plan to encourage business and first class. I am also saying that there are NO seats ta
66 DL767captain : Just slightly I'm very sorry and i hope you get better very soon I'm sure you do, my mom has had about three back surgeries in a row and I know how m
67 Nonrevman : That was an interesting article. It is not only about obese people. It stated that if someone with a disability needs to travel with an assistant, the
68 WunalaYann : You don't say... I think it is a case of people of above-average height (of which I am) simply getting the shaft. Sucks. Some posters have stated the
69 Tugger : So here's my question: if you are obese, you naturally eat more than the average person, so based on this ruling shouldn't a grocery store be required
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