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Does BA Have An Aversion To 'retro' Liveries?  
User currently offlineVeeseeten From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 169 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7285 times:

Just wondering if this has ever been discussed within BA, the possibility of introducing a number of retro liveries. Do they really need an excuse, such as an anniversary of some sort to do it? LH, AF, IB and AY (I think!) have all done it, just to name a few!

I'd just personally love to see a 744 in the original red-tail colours, a 777 in BOAC colours and an A321 in the red square BEA colours! Also maybe a 787 in Landor? I imagine if BA did consider such a thing, they'd give the world-tails a miss though!

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7531 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7200 times:

This is a hybrid BOAC/British Airways Landor livery from back in the late '90s:

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Dennis Lau


And this is hardly a 744, 777 or 321 but is current:

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Photo © George Canciani
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Photo © George Canciani



User currently offlineVeeseeten From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7189 times:

Ah yea - I'd forgotten about the Pipers! That 741 looks great though.

User currently offlineCityofAthens From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7150 times:

I have been thinking the same thing for a while too ... especially as BA recently celebrated 50 years of jets across the Atlantic and made an effort to celebrate by providing special uniforms to the crew on a selected JFK service .... see this very interesting article with photos here

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/31...el-Flying-back-to-the-Fifties.html

I guess it's not the best time to start spending money painting jets in old colours just to please us, but hey, we can always dream.  Smile


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13206 posts, RR: 77
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6910 times:

When Engineering did that brief 'BOAC' 747 back in 1999, the company newspaper printed a shitty letter from some pilot bemoaning the 'cost' of this.
But the reply pointed out that it had been done outside of working hours and used surplus materials.

So imagine doing a retro one in the current environment.


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6855 times:

Considering the extraordinary amount of negative press from the "World Tails" debacle, I don't think BA is in any mood to do anything other than the standard, comfortable, simple-but-elegant design that is their current motif. Besides, "British Airways" is a relatively new name, what with the name BOAC surviving into the early 1970's.

One should also consider that the newest design is merely a re-arrangement of sorts of the old style of red, white, and blue:


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Photo © Peter Seemann
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Photo © Gerhard Plomitzer




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Photo © AirNikon Collection-Pima Air and Space Museum
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Photo © Josh Rawlin



Not that I dislike either, but it's hard to think of the older style as "retro". It certainly wouldn't be terribly distinctive against the sea of other BA airplanes.

Just my 2 cents.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineFbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3706 posts, RR: 28
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6808 times:

I think it'd be nice to see a retro BA scheme, the BOAC livery would be great, however, The Daily Mail would probably print some story about how BA are charging passenger fuel surcharges and at the same time spending money on a paint scheme for an aircraft for no reason...  Yeah sure


"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
User currently offlineEbbUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6795 times:

I assert that there isn't a manager with big enough balls to take a livery change at BA.

In the 90's the BA boss Bob Ayling made an attempt to make the BA ident more reflective of it's customers by painting the tails with designs from artists from around the globe.

We Brits were horrified, on a number of levels (rule Britannia and all that). But essentially it is change that we are adverse to. So to even attempt changing one plane.... you better be ready to fight.

Oh those happy Ayling days. He did bring Airbus to BA. Give the man his props.


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5050 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6507 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 5):
One should also consider that the newest design is merely a re-arrangement of sorts of the old style of red, white, and blue:

I was watching an old episode of Cops 2 days ago. It was Cops in London. Anyways, they filmed the arrival of the Prince and Princess arriving on a BA L-1011, and I was in a trance. I do miss the old bird! Then they showed more video of the BA Concorde lifting off the runway. Miss the old paint job!!!



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2348 posts, RR: 21
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6462 times:

Here is some recent work I did. Keep in mind I use MS paint, along with a few touch ups in Photo Shop Pro - so its not as "glamorous" as the real thing.


Aviation-Design.Net:
Click here for bigger photo!
Design © Bobby Catone
Template © RP Abraham




ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4748 posts, RR: 44
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6442 times:

I used to love the simple, yet powerful "British" titles. No need for airways, everyone knows its an airline.


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently onlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17066 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6424 times:



Quoting SXDFC (Reply 9):
Here is some recent work I did. Keep in mind I use MS paint, along with a few touch ups in Photo Shop Pro - so its not as "glamorous" as the real thing.

Wow, that is impressive.

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 10):
I used to love the simple, yet powerful "British" titles. No need for airways, everyone knows its an airline.

Well say that to every airline that uses air, airlines or airways in their titel  Wink



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineVeeseeten From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6416 times:

From what my mother told me (she was a stewardess with them at the time), people within BA hated the dropping of 'airways' from the title, with cabin crew in particular still calling it 'British Airways' in the safety briefing.

I have been wondering lately how far BA's brand can stretch. I mean this in the sense of Lufthansa being able to apply their brand to Lufthansa Italia - its not really 'Air Germany, Italy' to the punters is it? To most people, frequent fliers aside, Lufthansa isn't quite as much of signifier of national allegiance than including the country's name in the brand, ala Air France, BA or AY. But if BA were to do the same thing, would it work? Yes there was DBA, but that was a remnant of IGS was it not? They also weren't able to apply the BA brand to that wholesale as such, in the same way that Lufthansa Italia aircraft will externally carry what is essentially the LH brand, but with 'Italia' tacked on. DBA's livery included German colours and crucially excluded the inclusion of the word 'British'. Even with Air Liberte, BA had to dilute the branding - with the speedmarque and basic cheatlines remaining, but the removal of the union flag and BA name.

I suppose it does work though, as the franchise concept has proven. But personally, I still find it odd that South Africans are happy to fly a brand with blatant connotations of foreign nationality on internal services.

My conclusion is that I'm probably not giving the travelling public enough credit in our increasingly globalised age, but then nationalism is hardly an outdated concept...yet!

Sorry to derail a bit there - ah well, sod it, I started the thread anyway!  

This is all just a musing on the superficial aspects of branding by the way, so please nobody take offense, as there is no bashing intended.

[Edited 2008-11-26 18:47:30]

User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4748 posts, RR: 44
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6402 times:



Quoting B747forever (Reply 11):
Well say that to every airline that uses air, airlines or airways in their titel

Don't have to bud, my favorite already drops the "Air Lines" in their non-legal, non-corporate consumer facing marketing materials, including the livery  Wink



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineAntonovman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 720 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6293 times:

A great remark on the daily telegraph article
"There was nothing so vulgar as economy. Passengers had a choice of de-luxe or first class."
AAh those were the days


User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5871 times:



Quoting EbbUK (Reply 7):
Oh those happy Ayling days. He did bring Airbus to BA. Give the man his props.

BA inherited the A320 from an order placed by BCal, whom they acquired in July 1987. BCal was the first airline to order the A320 but no aircraft had been delivered prior to their merger with BA. At the time of the merger there was much speculation that BA, under Lord King, being predominately a Boeing customer, would cancel the A320 order which would lead to job losses as much of the UK's civil aircraft construction industry was depending on the A320's success. When asked the question about cancelling the A320 order, Lord King replied to the effect that far from cancelling the order, BA would double it. BA must have been impressed with the A320 as they went on to order more.

I seem to recall that a decision in the past for BA not to have any "retro" livery was due to the fact they did not want to upset some of the management, some of whom were former BOAC staff, some former BEA staff, and a sprinkling of British Caledonian staff. Even years after the two airlines merged some of the senior managers at BA still considered themselves to be either BOAC or BEA managers, and "newbies" were BA managers. If BA painted a 747 in BOAC colours, the BEA managers would be up in arms. If they painted an A320 in BEA's colours, the BOAC managers would be in arms. If they painted both a 747 and an A320, they would probably have 'overkilled' the effects of any retro livery.



MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineAlanUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5727 times:

This is something I did a while ago, I so wish BA would do one of each...

http://www.bvair.com/bea.jpg

http://www.bvair.com/boac.jpg

 Smile


User currently offlineAntonovman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 720 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5727 times:

Hmm i dont know if your dates are quite correct here. Yes the original A320 order was a Bcal order, as you state, they were merged with BA before the aircraft were delivered but they ran that fleet of (i think) 10 for quite a few years before they went on to order more airbus planes. I thought the airbus order was made in Rod Eddingtons time

User currently offlineEbbUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5721 times:



Quoting BCAL (Reply 15):

So it was King who started the ball rolling? Thanks for that.

Doesn't look like a retro livery will ever happen at BA given it's birth lines. Far too complicated


User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3585 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5632 times:



Quoting Veeseeten (Reply 12):
From what my mother told me (she was a stewardess with them at the time), people within BA hated the dropping of 'airways' from the title, with cabin crew in particular still calling it 'British Airways' in the safety briefing.

Surely it was just dropped from the title on the fuselage, and not elsewhere.

It would be absurd to have phoned British Airways to have a receptionist answer "Good morning your through to British"

or have cabin crew announce "we hope you enjoy your flight on British"

As to the idea of a BA plane in a retro livery; where's the upside on the balance sheet ? and we all know that its the balance sheet thats all important at BA.


User currently offlineMal787 From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 693 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5370 times:
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Quoting AlanUK (Reply 16):
I so wish BA would do one of each

man gotta love that T7 would love to see it in the flesh

maal 787



Flying cant get enough of it
User currently offlineMaddog888 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2007, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5215 times:



Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 19):
or have cabin crew announce "we hope you enjoy your flight on British"

And yet when flying AA , on almost every trip I hear "thank you for flying American....etc" and that doesn't seem strange.

(of course the fact that it is in an american accent may color (sic) it for me  Wink

Also just a thought that although I love the BOAC style tail, it seem awfully similar to LH, in these litigious days would BA be able to get away with it?

J


User currently offlineBwest From Belgium, joined Jul 2006, 1370 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5104 times:



Quoting Maddog888 (Reply 21):
Also just a thought that although I love the BOAC style tail, it seem awfully similar to LH, in these litigious days would BA be able to get away with it?

Seeing Air One gets away with their tail, I guess BA wouldn't have too much trouble... they're not that alike.



I love my Airport Job! :)
User currently offlineAlanUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5096 times:



Quoting Maddog888 (Reply 21):
it seem awfully similar to LH, in these litigious days would BA be able to get away with it?

I'm not sure which came first? BOAC logo or LH logo? No matter which it is, I don't think it's that similar, the BOAC bird is very geometric design whilst Lufthansa's is more artistic.


User currently offlineAntonovman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 720 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4945 times:

AlanUK those 2 pics look fabulous. great job on them

25 Post contains images Airproxx : Personally I've always been a big fan of the old classical Landor livery, wich in my eyes catches the british class at its best...
26 Post contains links SpeedyGonzales : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufthansa#History_of_the_brand The LH logo is from 1918.
27 LNv22 : Now that's a T7 i want to see!
28 Spartanmjf : BA has a brand and an image that, like some others in the industry, is recognized worldwide. No one can mistake a BA, AA, or LH aircraft when she land
29 Veeseeten : AlanUK - those are absolutely fantastic!! As for libelous image-copying, I'm surprised there's not been more commentary on Orient Thai's colours in th
30 UK_Dispatcher : I'd love to see A319s, 20s or 21s in the following liveries: -BEA Red Square -BEA Arrowjack -Northeast -Cambrian (red) I think a BOAC B777 would prove
31 Richierich : I couldn't agree more - this is what I think of when I think of BA at its best. The Landor livery looked distinctive, important and uniquely regal on
32 AlanUK : Thank you, thank you. Now, if any of you know of someone that would hire my design services, you'll score bonus points! Whilst I agree with your rule
33 Viscount724 : And I think it would be a big mistake to remind those who are old enough to remember BOAC (and BA when they were still owned by the government) of th
34 GDB : Most people at BA, including me, thought he was a knob. Ran up big debts, over-expanded, had a tin ear of dealing with people, built that way over pr
35 Group51 : They should paint one of the Caribbean route 777s in BOAC. My mother came to Britain on a BOAC 707. It would be quite nostalgic for some if they did t
36 Jfk777 : I wish BA would have a 744 in early 1970's BOAC livery, the classic Blue and white is the best.
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