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OAG: DL/DLC Drops SLC-RDU/CLE/CMH  
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7308 posts, RR: 14
Posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 6772 times:

OAJ, Jacksonville, NC, is gone as of April 2009. It was being flown with 50 seat RJs. SLC to CLE/CMH drops in March. They were being flown with 70 seat RJs. SLC-RDU goes away in April. It was being flown with mainline.

All of these routes are permanent cancels, e.g. there are no resumption dates.

These should disappear from GDS by Monday.

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUALFAson From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 733 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 6725 times:

So UA DEN-RDU goes, now DL's SLC-RDU. Too bad. That's interesting that these routes are being cut when IAD-RDU, at least, was one of UA's most profitable routes, according to another thread on this site.

Is the tech economy in the Research Triangle getting hit that badly or are these just more examples of mid-to-long-range routes that are more profitably served via connections through other hubs as opposed to nonstop?

Also interesting to drop this route given that DL is starting RDU-CDG and could possibly benefit from some feed, even though I'm aware there's SLC-CDG service (or will be).



"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 6709 times:



Quoting UALFAson (Reply 1):
SLC-CDG service (or will be)

SLC-CDG has been operating for quite some time now.


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7308 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 6683 times:



Quoting UALFAson (Reply 1):
So UA DEN-RDU goes, now DL's SLC-RDU. Too bad. That's interesting that these routes are being cut when IAD-RDU, at least, was one of UA's most profitable routes, according to another thread on this site.

What's more interesting is that all 3 would have supported the new SLC-NRT service and now that feed is gone. That route will be tough to begin with just because the local market is tiny.

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 1):
Is the tech economy in the Research Triangle getting hit that badly or are these just more examples of mid-to-long-range routes that are more profitably served via connections through other hubs as opposed to nonstop?

 checkmark 
I think IAD-RDU is a natural route because both areas are tightly linked in so many ways (politically, tech, etc.). One thing people don't realize about these single frequency mid-cons is that the only thing that is going to connect well roundtrip are cities with lots of flights like SFO and SEA which are already available over ATL/ORD. Stuff like JAC and BIL is more than likely going to have a really long connection in one direction. Bottom line, these long single flight markets are very hard to make work.


User currently offlineSxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6643 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 3):
What's more interesting is that all 3 would have supported the new SLC-NRT service and now that feed is gone. That route will be tough to begin with just because the local market is tiny.

That is absurd. DTW and MSP (plus ATL and JFK) are much more efficient connecting points for NRT service, with a significantly higher number of connecting opportunities.


User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6522 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
SLC to CLE/CMH drops in March. They were being flown with 70 seat RJs.

isn't SLC-CLE an MD-90?



300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6515 times:



Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 5):
SLC-CLE an MD-90?

Depends on the day of the week. Alternates between MD-90 and Skywest CRJ-900.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6484 times:



Quoting UALFAson (Reply 1):
That's interesting that these routes are being cut when IAD-RDU, at least, was one of UA's most profitable routes, according to another thread on this site.

IAD-RDU is 100% United Express, and being one of those people that flew that route constantly when I lived in DC, I can say seats were easy to come by. IDK where that might have come from.

ORD-RDU is always pretty full, but again it is only opped a few times a day, and with 737 equipment. Its a short flight, but UA flies a lot shorter with Airbus equipment.

NS


User currently onlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6775 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6408 times:



Quoting Gigneil (Reply 7):
IAD-RDU is 100% United Express, and being one of those people that flew that route constantly when I lived in DC, I can say seats were easy to come by. IDK where that might have come from.

ORD-RDU is always pretty full, but again it is only opped a few times a day, and with 737 equipment. Its a short flight, but UA flies a lot shorter with Airbus equipment.

Completely incorrect.

IAD-RDU is almost all mainline.. going to 4x 737, 1x CR7 very shortly.
ORD-RDU is becoming 100% United Express.. going 4x E70...

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
SLC-RDU goes away in April. It was being flown with mainline.

This is highly disappointing, but understandable. Hopefully DL will upgrade or add service to one of their existing stations to make up for the loss of SLC. Although, I must say, I didn't think SLC was a big O&D market anyway.. I'm sure LAX was better.. but, oh well.. it happens..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6368 times:



Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 8):
Hopefully DL will upgrade or add service to one of their existing stations to make up for the loss of SLC.

Don't count on it, and certainly not from CVG. Besides, you're getting NONSTOP service to Paris-CDG. What more could you possibly want/need?


User currently onlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6775 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6232 times:



Quoting Flynavy (Reply 9):
What more could you possibly want/need?

Want? Hahaha.. that is endless..

Need? Well.. that's subjective too..

But an additional flight to the major hubs would be nice..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineRJNUT From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6065 times:



Quoting Flynavy (Reply 9):
Don't count on it, and certainly not from CVG. Besides, you're getting NONSTOP service to Paris-CDG. What more could you possibly want/need?

I agree.. sheesh , I'd take that(nonstop to CDG) plus 5 nonstops to ATL here in KC! Cant make anybody happy I guess!


User currently offlineEMB170 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 649 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5982 times:



Quoting Flynavy (Reply 9):
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 8):
Hopefully DL will upgrade or add service to one of their existing stations to make up for the loss of SLC.

Don't count on it, and certainly not from CVG. Besides, you're getting NONSTOP service to Paris-CDG. What more could you possibly want/need?

I don't work for DL, but if I had to guess at their response, they'd say that the cuts that are being made at SLC are probably due to the fact that such traffic is largely connecting traffic and, can either be handled by nonstop O&D service (ex: isn't CMH-LAX coming back in the spring?) or, especially if it's going to the mountain west, can be as easily handled through MSP. Don't forget that DL's got to account for NW's piece of the pie now that the merger has been approved...they may decide that if enough RDU-SLC people are going through SLC just to get to either LAX or SEA, for example, they may just upgauge a couple of flights RDU-ATL or RDU-MSP and reroute them more effectively.



Can passenger jets fly as fast as my feet do? Let's find out...
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7308 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5810 times:



Quoting Sxf24 (Reply 4):
Quoting Enilria (Reply 3):
What's more interesting is that all 3 would have supported the new SLC-NRT service and now that feed is gone. That route will be tough to begin with just because the local market is tiny.

That is absurd. DTW and MSP (plus ATL and JFK) are much more efficient connecting points for NRT service, with a significantly higher number of connecting opportunities.

I don't understand what you mean is absurd. The loss of RDU/CLE/CMH as feed for the SLC-NRT service indeed reduced its viability. It seems like you are agreeing with me, yet you say "absurd"? I didn't say anything about DTW/MSP/ATL/JFK. I agree that they are better hubs for NRT...although MSP is not a very big local market either.


User currently offlinePapatango From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 523 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5802 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 13):

I believe the CMH-SLC flight gets in too late for the NRT flight


User currently offlineRDUDDJI From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5589 times:

Sad to see this, but not surprised. I think we'll see a lot of marginally profitable mid-long range routes disappear until demand returns. I know a ton of RDU'ers like to see non-stops to the West, but unfortunately, it doesn't appear they are willing to pay a premium for the non-stop. Plus, when there's only one N/S per day, you essentially lose the business traveler market share anyway.


Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7308 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5523 times:



Quoting Papatango (Reply 14):
I believe the CMH-SLC flight gets in too late for the NRT flight

Both directions?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33010 posts, RR: 71
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5423 times:



Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 15):
Plus, when there's only one N/S per day, you essentially lose the business traveler market share anyway.

No, you don't, especially not when it is long/medium-haul (frequency becomes increasingly less important as "day trips" are rare) and there is no non-stop competition.



a.
User currently offlineSxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5409 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 13):
I don't understand what you mean is absurd. The loss of RDU/CLE/CMH as feed for the SLC-NRT service indeed reduced its viability. It seems like you are agreeing with me, yet you say "absurd"? I didn't say anything about DTW/MSP/ATL/JFK. I agree that they are better hubs for NRT...although MSP is not a very big local market either.

There is no motivation for DL/NW to connect RDU/CLE/CMH NRT-bound passengers through SLC when they offer significantly more seats through other hubs.


User currently offlineRDUDDJI From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5333 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
No, you don't, especially not when it is long/medium-haul (frequency becomes increasingly less important as "day trips" are rare) and there is no non-stop competition.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. I do agree that in long haul market, it's less important, but as someone who travels for business every week for a company that's not price sensitive...I can tell you N/S is my most important decision factor. If they only have one N/S per day, odds are it won't fit my schedule, so I'll fly with a preferred carrier and/or try to save a few bucks for the Company.



Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7308 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4995 times:



Quoting Sxf24 (Reply 18):
There is no motivation for DL/NW to connect RDU/CLE/CMH NRT-bound passengers through SLC when they offer significantly more seats through other hubs.

If you are saying SLC-NRT won't work then I probably agree with you, but there are few large cities between SLC and MSP to be unique connect points for SLC-NRT. Further, the big markets on the West Coast aren't going to fly to SLC to go to NRT because it is out of the way and also most of those cities have non-stops already. So, they have little choice but to get connect passengers from places like RDU/CLE/CMH. Even Texas can fly via MSP without adding much flight time vs. SLC..


User currently offlineDeltaRules From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3788 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4671 times:



Quoting EMB170 (Reply 12):
(ex: isn't CMH-LAX coming back in the spring?)

It was cancelled last spring only to be restarted for the summer, no idea if it's coming back again.



Let's Kick the Tires & Light the Fires!!
User currently offlineERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4264 times:

OAJ is NOT being dropped. In fact DL is adding a RON CRJ-700 im April.

Desmond in ILM,



Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33010 posts, RR: 71
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4255 times:



Quoting ERAUgrad02 (Reply 22):
OAJ is NOT being dropped. In fact DL is adding a RON CRJ-700 im April.

Yes, it is being dropped.

Last day is 31 March 2009.



a.
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3975 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23):

OAJ is not being dropped. A scheduling error was made.


25 ERJ170 : Well, I am assuming that the OAGs have been updated since I looked in April and SLC has disappeared.. however, when I look in June, it appears to have
26 RL757PVD : it was in fact an oops.... even the delta scheduling people are human!
27 MAH4546 : Summer only. Discontinued 08SEP09.
28 ERJ170 : Gone for good or just seasonal?
29 Sxf24 : Probably seasonal, but you never know.
30 MAH4546 : For now, gone for good, but we can't tell yet for sure. It might be like a repeat of what they did with CMH/RDU-LAX last year, discontinuing it, but
31 EXAAUADL : I dont think you can say that IAD-RDU being profitable means DEN and SLC from RDU would be profitable also. WN probably has low fares the fares going
32 Enilria : Really? That's pretty moronic. If it was a mistake why was only OAJ impacted?
33 MasseyBrown : SLC-RDU/CLE/CMH nonstops all show in the June schedule on the DL website. Have they been restored or just not pulled down yet?
34 OA412 : Huh? Mistakes happen to the best of us, nothing moronic about it.
35 Enilria : It's REALLY easy to write a program to show the changes between two schedules which they should be doing before they submit a schedule to OAG. If the
36 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : Is it seasonally discontinued?
37 Greenair727 : Will CO step in an offer CLE-SLC? It would connect SLC to the entire NE (and Midwest) without forcing people to get caught in the NYC congestion at EW
38 CLE757 : CO used to run CLE-SLC with a 737-500, it was pretty full all the time. So they took it away.
39 OA412 : Highly unlikely as CO announced recently that they were cutting EWR-SLC. If they can't make SLC work from EWR, I doubt they'll attempt it from CLE.
40 Joeman : No CO CLE consistency, yield, ya, ya, blah, blah Higher fares naturally, lower fuels costs now but recession too, suspension of EWR-SLC was a token c
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