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Boeing - Problems With Every Type Now  
User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 14357 times:

To say that Boeing is going through a bad patch would be an understatement. Problems afflict all the types in production and their 2 major development projects.

Non-specification nutplates were fitted to 737, 747, 767, 777. These will all need to be changed.

748 - project delayed.

787 - non-specification fitting of fasteners to titanium structures. These will all need to be checked/changed.

Boeing received non-conforming nutplates from August 2007. Where is the manpower coming from to change the offending nutplates on the hundreds of 737, 747, 767, 777 aircraft produced in the last year?

According to Flight 16th Nov:

"Boeing today confirms that three widebodies - the 747, 767 and 777 - face new production disruptions caused by the same quality control issue already plaguing the 737 programme."

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...tplate-problem-on-747-767-777.html

What should Boeing do - stop all production and fix the nutplate problem on every aircraft in assembly before resuming production with correctly made nutplates?

I have no idea where the nutplates are. Would changing them involve dismantling the aircraft?

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2288 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 13937 times:

If there was a major interruption in regards to production Boeing would announce it on their website and other major networks.

I don't have any knowledge of what are nutplates either but it sounds like it doesn't seem to be a major issue.

[Edited 2008-11-28 06:20:04]


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlinePEET7G From Hungary, joined Jan 2007, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 13853 times:



Quoting Art (Thread starter):
What should Boeing do

Sarcasm ON - Stop production and finally admit that they lost their capability to build planes. Close the doors and leave aircraft production to the "real big boys" or maybe ask Airbus for help...- Sarcasm OFF

More seriously, they really need to pull their acts together. Not just at developing and management levels, but also down the pipeline, to the last worker, unions, management, etc all have to take a different approach and realize that hard times are ahead, and it is hard enough to battle external obstacles so the least useful thing these days is to deal with "internal" fighting, strikes, etc...
All that said, I seriously believe that Boeing will go through this rough period and rise stronger than ever. Just like Airbus had their lows, and hopefully learned a lot for the future. Both of them will bring fantastic aircrafts and their rivalry and competition will make sure the evolution of aviation will not stop and the industry stays healthy...bla...bla...bla...



Peet7G
User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 13769 times:



Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 1):
I don't have any knowledge of what are nutplates either but it sounds like it doesn't seem to be a major issue.

I hope it isn't.

I've looked at some diagrams of nutplates used on Cessna aircraft. They look like they are made out of a metal plate with a threaded hole to accept a bolt. The ones I have seen all have rivet holes in them. I guess you can use them to attach something to a panel (for example) without having to drill through the panel and tap a thread in the panel. Instead you screw the bolt into the nutplate which is attached to the panel with rivets.

I guess that changing it involves drilling out the rivets. I do hope it is simple to do since it sounds like these nutplates have gone into all the aircraft produced since late last year.


User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2300 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13658 times:



Quoting Art (Thread starter):
Where is the manpower coming from to change the offending nutplates on the hundreds of 737, 747, 767, 777 aircraft produced in the last year?

I don't think that changing the nutplates on airplanes already flying is a critical issue which must be resolved ASAP. I believe the problem is with corrosion, and since this problem only exists with airplanes that are maximum one year old, I don't see any reason why airlines cannot change these nutplates as a part of their regular maintenance work. At least not according to my very limited knowledge of aircraft mechanics.

Quoting Art (Thread starter):
What should Boeing do - stop all production and fix the nutplate problem on every aircraft in assembly before resuming production with correctly made nutplates?

Obviously, they cannot deliver airplanes with parts that do not live up to the specifications.

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 1):
If there was a major interruption in regards to production Boeing would announce it on their website and other major networks.

Well, if you say that not delivering any airplanes at all is not a major interruption...

According to the article, "The impact of the disruption on the production schedule is still being evaluated, the spokeswoman says. Any delays are being factored into the overall impact of the two-month strike by the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM), which is also still being evaluated." So, Boeing simply does not know yet how big delays will result of the strike and the nutplate problem. So they simply cannot announce anything on their web site before they know what to announce.



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31055 posts, RR: 87
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13616 times:
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Quoting Art (Thread starter):
What should Boeing do - stop all production and fix the nutplate problem on every aircraft in assembly before resuming production with correctly made nutplates?

It is not a flight-safety issue so there is no reason to stop production.

What they do is what they are doing - work through it.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19780 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13537 times:



Quoting Art (Thread starter):

What should Boeing do - stop all production and fix the nutplate problem on every aircraft in assembly before resuming production with correctly made nutplates?

Yup. And then hire some good bankruptcy lawyers, because it's coming at this rate.


User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1470 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13521 times:

If companies like Boeing would quit outsourcing everything they possibly can to Korea/China/Thailand/India etc....then they would probably get better quality products and situations like this would be less likely to happen. Remember, you get what you paid for!

User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2300 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13474 times:



Quoting OOer (Reply 7):
If companies like Boeing would quit outsourcing everything they possibly can to Korea/China/Thailand/India etc....then they would probably get better quality products and situations like this would be less likely to happen. Remember, you get what you paid for!

Are you saying that the supplier which supplied these nutplates to Spirit is based in Korea, China, Thailand or India? What's the name of that supplier?



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13365 times:

In the Flight article it said:

"Boeing today confirms that three widebodies - the 747, 767 and 777 - face new production disruptions caused by the same quality control issue already plaguing the 737 programme."

The good news is that there is no mention of the 787! Perhaps any nutplates used in the aircraft came from the 2 "good" Spirit suppliers.


User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1470 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13269 times:



Quoting RedChili (Reply 8):
Are you saying that the supplier which supplied these nutplates to Spirit is based in Korea, China, Thailand or India? What's the name of that supplier?

I don't know if they are. However I do know that Boeing along with many other companies have outsourced everything they can to save a buck! There are alot of airplane parts on a Boeing airplane that are not made in the U.S.


User currently offlineSxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13223 times:



Quoting OOer (Reply 10):
I don't know if they are. However I do know that Boeing along with many other companies have outsourced everything they can to save a buck! There are alot of airplane parts on a Boeing airplane that are not made in the U.S.

Boeing has never manufactured nut plates, they've always been purchased from U.S.-based suppliers.


User currently offlineChapavaeaa From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13178 times:



Quoting PEET7G (Reply 2):
More seriously, they really need to pull their acts together. Not just at developing and management levels, but also down the pipeline, to the last worker, unions, management, etc all have to take a different approach and realize that hard times are ahead, and it is hard enough to battle external obstacles so the least useful thing these days is to deal with "internal" fighting, strikes, etc...

Agreed. I don't think this is just a Boeing problem however...or just an Aviation problem. It comes down to a "process" problem. In many industries the level of Quality Assurance/Control is dropping/non-existent. (Think the Toys-R-Us lead paint issues, etc.)

Quality points should be put into each of the various areas of the production line where they make appropriate sense. I have no idea where these nutplates are manufactured but somebody missed the ball on this one. I'm sure they were a few cents cheaper than supplier "X" but the total cost for repair/compensation is now going to exceed the initial savings but a factor of a 1000 or more.

Will they all need to be replaced? Nope...some in a critical spot will need replacement but the large majority I would think could be placed on some sort of specialized inspection. Cost effective for the operators? Probably not..(and I don't know where these are located on the aircraft).

A few years ago another manufacturer produced about 10 aircraft that had bad corrosion control protective coatings in the aluminum. The aircraft wings are on a special inspection schedule and the operators have specialized procedures to check the airworthiness of the structure.


User currently offlineJayinKitsap From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 769 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12987 times:



Quoting OOer (Reply 7):
If companies like Boeing would quit outsourcing everything they possibly can to Korea/China/Thailand/India etc....then they would probably get better quality products and situations like this would be less likely to happen. Remember, you get what you paid for!

I seem to recall my 71 Nova being an all american, all UAW built vehicle and it had an incredible affinity for the repair shop. Warranty service every 3 months or so, really crappy corrosion protection, even with the aftermarket Zbart undercoating I had body perforation just 5 years after purchasing. I have never owned a GM vehicle since that POS.

Sourcing products outside of the manufacture does work and work well - if there are strict and functioning quality control networks. Yet things still get past - even Honda does have recalls. And there is hardly a GM vehicle today made without a recall or three.

Apparently the supplier of the nutplates either omitted a cadmium coating or the coating was incorrect. I suspect it wasn't very visible otherwise the workers and QA at Spirit and at Boeing should have seen it and flagged the problem.


User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 12368 times:



Quoting Art (Thread starter):
Where is the manpower coming from to change the offending nutplates on the hundreds of 737, 747, 767, 777 aircraft produced in the last year?

All of the delivered stuff should be done by the airlines, not by Boeing.

Quoting Art (Thread starter):
What should Boeing do - stop all production and fix the nutplate problem on every aircraft in assembly before resuming production with correctly made nutplates

I think that's what they did, isn't it?

Quoting Art (Thread starter):
I have no idea where the nutplates are. Would changing them involve dismantling the aircraft?

You have to take panels and equipment off, but nutplates are non-structural so you shouldn't have to do disassemble major components.

Quoting RedChili (Reply 4):
Obviously, they cannot deliver airplanes with parts that do not live up to the specifications.

That's not necessarily true...if they can show that the nutplates meet all the FAR's, they can certify even if they're different than the original spec.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
It is not a flight-safety issue so there is no reason to stop production.

Also not necessarily true...although if it was a flight-safety issue, they'd have to stop, they might have to stop even if it's not if they can't get the FAA to agree that the nutplates are acceptable as-is.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
Yup. And then hire some good bankruptcy lawyers, because it's coming at this rate.

There's a long way between here and there. Even if you call it a 6 month delay (which seems really pessimistic) Boeing has far more cash and backlog than needed the weather the delay.

Tom.


User currently offlineLegacytravel From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1067 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11096 times:



Quoting Art (Thread starter):
either omitted a cadmium coating or the coating was incorrect

I used to work at a company the used 5% of the worlds cadmium in one plant. You know what plating line the part is going into and out of. I find it hard that they plated it on the wrong line. I would think that if this is the case they company at fault will bear some of the fiscal responsibility for this error.
Also someone should be out the door already if this proves to be true.

Mark in MKE



I love the smell of Jet fuel in the Morning
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5186 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10971 times:



Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 1):
I don't have any knowledge of what are nutplates either but it sounds like it doesn't seem to be a major issue.



Quoting RedChili (Reply 4):
I don't think that changing the nutplates on airplanes already flying is a critical issue which must be resolved ASAP.

Here's what Aviation Week explained (short, fair use excerpt):

"Nutplates are small anchoring devices generally attached to the inner skin surface to hold wire and cable bundles in place. ... nutplates from an unidentified supplier had not been given an anti-corrosion coating of cadmium. ...

"Although Boeing reiterates the problem is not "a safety of flight issue," the nonconforming nutplates must be replaced to comply with certified corrosion protection requirements. This process involves inspection and nutplate replacement throughout incomplete sub-assemblies at Spirit and Boeing, as well as in aircraft in final assembly at both Renton and Everett sites in Washington. Aircraft already delivered will require corrosion inspections at intervals until an opportunity for replacement occurs during a planned maintenance interval.

... on the 737, ... each require between 3,000 and 5,000 nutplates to be replaced. However, the company has yet to announce the full extent of the disruption on the post-strike production ramp-up for the 737 or any of the other models. The number of affected nutplates on the 747 and 767 models is "in the hundreds" says Boeing, while the 777 has around 1,500 to 2,500 affected non conforming parts.


User currently offlineHighflight1996 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 20 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10584 times:



Quoting OOer (Reply 10):

I don't know if they are. However I do know that Boeing along with many other companies have outsourced everything they can to save a buck! There are alot of airplane parts on a Boeing airplane that are not made in the U.S.

It would be great if people could actually make statements using a fact-based, logical thought process. If you had any understanding of business principles instead of reading headlines, you would understand that business decisions are typically made on a total cost of ownership approach. And yes, companies typically include service level agreements in those outsourced agreements. So, if you want to make such inaccurate statements, please go ahead, but post it somewhere else.

Any fyi..."alot" is not a word - it is something a house is built on.


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 9915 times:



Example of an expensive new aircraft of a loyal customer that now appears to fly around with 1,500 to 2,500 affected non conforming parts.

To locate, reach and replace those is going to cost a lot of additional manhours / groundtime. A week of additional ground on top of a regular check would mean 10 missed revenue flights to start with.

Hundreds of new 737NG's don't have 1.500 - 2,500 affected non conforming parts but between 3000 and 5000.



I guess a few dozen Airline CEO's / COO's / CFO's is not amused, to state it mildly.


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5186 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 9582 times:

Look at it this way: the fix is going to provide a lot of good work to people with good jobs in various places around the world, and it will be paid for, I imagine, largely by the supplier and its insurers at the end of the day. It's not a safety of flight issue if the corrosion inspections are done properly.

Boeing should be able to work something out with the supplier, but if it can't, then it will also provide work for lawyers. In other words, the supplier will say something like "the specification wasn't clear" or "we aren't liable for consequential damages (the cost of installing the repaired part or the extra downtime the plane undergoes)" and the lawyers will duke it out. In the end, the benefits will flow down to the folks who will do the interim corrosion replacements and who will get to replace 5000 nutplates in a 737 during a D-check. It also provides an opportunity for go-getter organizations like AA MRO to fashion a total-solution package and efficient procedure that it can knock out in a line, perhaps garnering some extra business here in the good-ol USA.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19780 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 9523 times:



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 14):

There's a long way between here and there. Even if you call it a 6 month delay (which seems really pessimistic) Boeing has far more cash and backlog than needed the weather the delay.

Remember this: it costs Boeing a certain amount of money to keep the lights turned on every day. It costs them a certain amount of money to keep the toilets flushing and the garbage getting picked up.

So as long as they are using money and not delivering planes, then they are losing liquidity. Since they cannot make planes any faster than maximum speed, they cannot recoup these loses, even if these loses become insignificant in the long run.

However, Boeing does not make money off a plane until that plane is delivered. And if a customer decides that a delay of 2+ years is unacceptable, they can probably sue to cancel an order on the grounds of breach-of-contract with no penalty.


User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3601 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 9401 times:

Bearing in mind that here in Europe at any rate cadmium plating is banned except for the aerospace industry and one or two other minor exceptions due to its toxicity; and is only allowed for aerospace because its deemed its properties are essential for the aerospace environment.
It would appear that its absence from parts is likely to be viewed fairly seriously, as the cadmium is only used in the 1st place because its anti corrosion properties are essential to the product.


User currently offlinePygmalion From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 966 posts, RR: 38
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 9236 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 20):
However, Boeing does not make money off a plane until that plane is delivered. And if a customer decides that a delay of 2+ years is unacceptable, they can probably sue to cancel an order on the grounds of breach-of-contract with no penalty.

Your pessimism gene is showing.. or is it the ornery gene.. could be either....

First

Both Boeing and Airbus get deposit and progress payments for airplane orders with only the final delivery payment held til the end. There are purchase deposits, payments when the airplane is "committed" (actual delivery configuration and date is set) and again during major production milestones. (normally start of final assy or sometimes rollout) The major aircraft assemblers don't build anything "on spec", they build to order. Boeing more so than Airbus.

Second.

Cancellation and or late delivery terms are set by the purchase contract. Not at the whim of the airline or of the manufacturer. The airline can sue but that in no way implies that they will get no penalty. For the nutplate issues... the planes are no more than a few weeks late as of yet... remember.. Boeing gets at least a day for day slide for any work stoppage of appreciable length... and I think i saw an article that they also get time to restart the line. to say that Boeing is "late" yet under the contract is certainly not a given.

And lastly.. there are no nutplates on primary structure. Nutplates are used for removable joints under low loading. Nutplates just arent that good for strength or fatigue. They are used on fairing panels, cargo sidewalls etc. Even the nutplates used on the wing panels on Boeing aircraft are attached to a secondary strip that is itself attached to the wing. No nutplate is used in primary attachments.

Quit the gloom and doom.. there is no reason for it. Does Boeing have an issue they need to deal with? of course... but nothing near a catastrophe or a bankruptcy.


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 9117 times:



Quoting Keesje (Reply 18):
Example of an expensive new aircraft of a loyal customer that now appears to fly around with 1,500 to 2,500 affected non conforming parts.

If there are "non-conforming" parts on this loyal customers aircraft, several things will happen:

1. A service bulletin will be issued with instructions on how to identify the "non-conforming" parts, where they are located and what to replace them with.

2. Replacement parts will be supplied.

3. The loyal customer will be reimbursed for labor costs incurred. Provided the work is accomplished in the warranty period. .

By the way they will do the same for a customer that is not loyal also.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 18):
To locate, reach and replace those is going to cost a lot of additional manhours / groundtime. A week of additional ground on top of a regular check would mean 10 missed revenue flights to start with.

Since this is not a safety of flight item, replacement will be accomplished at a schedule established by the operator. Therefore, any interruption of their schedule would be of their making, not the manufacture.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19780 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 8842 times:



Quoting Pygmalion (Reply 22):

Cancellation and or late delivery terms are set by the purchase contract. Not at the whim of the airline or of the manufacturer. The airline can sue but that in no way implies that they will get no penalty. For the nutplate issues... the planes are no more than a few weeks late as of yet... remember.. Boeing gets at least a day for day slide for any work stoppage of appreciable length... and I think i saw an article that they also get time to restart the line. to say that Boeing is "late" yet under the contract is certainly not a given.

It is set by the contract, and I am not privy to the contract. However, the airlines will not sign a contract that allows Boeing to deliver a plane 10 years late with no penalty. They aren't that dumb. So there has to be a clause in there as to when a plane is so delayed that an order can be canceled with no penalty. NO airline would sign a contract that would allow Boeing to indefinitely delay delivery of an aircraft with no option for cancellation and no clause for compensation.

Think of it this way: You order a car. You put down a $2,000 deposit. You get told the car will be around within 4-6 weeks. Six months later, the dealership is telling you that there were problems with this model year and that the car will be delayed a few more weeks. Another four months go by. At some point, you can state that the dealer has no intention of actually delivering the car and that they are in breach of contract and that you want your deposit back so that you can buy a car from a manufacturer that actually is capable of delivering your car. You might even sue the company for the interest on your $2,000 deposit that you could have made had it been sitting in the bank for that year. At a 6% rate, that would be $120 extra.

A delay of a few weeks on the 737 isn't going to lead to cancellations, no. However, the fact is that Boeing is planning on delivering just one single 777 this whole month. That means that Boeing will not make much money off their commercial program this month, even if airlines do place orders.

Boeing isn't about to go belly-up, but in the current financial markets, I am sure that their own investments aren't doing great and this latest show of utter and complete incompetence isn't helping matters at all.


25 Mattcawby : haha Boeing can't even plan that right, two 777s and a 767 were delivered in November.
26 Glideslope : Why does Scott Carson still have a job????????????????
27 A333TS : That’s not necessarily true. All manufacturers (suppliers) have to follow the spec, and if that nutplate differs from the specification requirement
28 Francoflier : Anyway you put it, it still represents extra ground time and manhours that the airline shouldn't have to deal with in the first place. Although I sup
29 AirNZ : Then if you don't know if they are why are you making outrageous, and blatantly false, claims??? Are you having the audacity and arrogance to imply t
30 Boeingdotcom : Well, how long does Boeing need to fix the nutplate? The B777, 767, 737, 747 flying right now can go to AOG, Hanger or when their C check is near, the
31 Wjcandee : Check out Reply 16, which explains what the fix is: replace the plates in the airframes that haven't been delivered, inspect for corrosion on the del
32 Post contains images Art : Looks like the nutplate is rivetted onto something. How long does it take to remove 2 rivets and then put 2 new rivets in to hold the replacement nut
33 Bigsmile : To replace the actual nutplate (or Anchor Nut as we call them at Airbus) takes only a couple of minutes depending if it's in an accessable place, the
34 HowSwedeitis : So, does anyone know the total time it would take to replace all the affected nut plates? 2-3 days and it's back up? Or would other factors prolong i
35 Art : Thanks for the info.
36 Astuteman : Apologies, Pygmalion. I didn't understand this comment. Could I ask for an explanation, please? Rgds
37 Dougbr2006 : The question is additional down time, airlines don't need this it costs money and it depends on the size of their fleet as to how much impact an airc
38 Art : That sounds really expensive. It would be a lot less expensive if the exercise were conducted when the interior of the aircraft had to be removed any
39 Bigsmile : I can imagine the replacing of these nutplates will be done over a period of time and not all in one go. It will be order of priority. Example: 1st re
40 RedChili : This depends upon the airline, of course, but my guess is that the European operators of the 737 won't get any extra down time at all. Most European
41 Bongodog1964 : I really think your suggested timescale is very optimistic. if a plane lands at say 22.00, by the time the passengers have disembarked, and the plane
42 RedChili : Sure, but remember that you don't have to do everything in one night. My impression from reading about this problem is that the airplanes could fly p
43 Alessandro : I wonder if Boeing are going to work fully during Xmas and New years, hiring extra staff if needed?
44 RedChili : Just to get some perspective into this discussion: Since August 2007, the following airlines have taken delivery of the following number of 737s: Aero
45 AirNZ : Irrespective of who schedules what it is Boeing's responsibility whichever way you decide to spin this seeming fashionable 'nothing's ever Boeing's f
46 Alessandro : Could be good for Ryanair, they get compensation from Boeing, with the airplanes they don´t need are on service. How many of these operators do use t
47 Stitch : I would expect not because the week between Christmas and New Years is spent doing annual maintenance and refurbishment of the factories themselves.
48 Bongodog1964 : In all likelihood, you would spend the majority of your time removing trim, to expose the nut plates, and replacing it; and little of it actually doi
49 Pygmalion : I meant that both Boeing and Airbus build to order... all the delivery slots are filled with orders for customers not just built hoping for a sale. F
50 JoeCanuck : As I understand it, the airlines will have a schedule in place to inspect and replace the suspect parts. At the moment, they are non critical to safet
51 Astuteman : Personally, I don't think they ever were, but thanks for the confirmation........ Rgds
52 474218 : . I guess you didn't read the part where I said Boeing should issue a service bulletin and pay for the parts and the labor required do accomplish the
53 AirNZ : Yes, I did read what you wrote, and also where you later stated that any interruption is the responsibility of the airline and not the manufacturer.
54 Wjcandee : And, as Aviation Week and Space Technology, an authoritative magazine, reported, there will be no replacements on delivered airframes until they are
55 474218 : Boeing does not schedule the airlines maintenance. Since safety of flight is not compromised by the non-conforming nutplates, it would the be up to t
56 Art : I believe that Boeing project 12 days to assemble a 787. With 4 on the line, 1 would emerge from the assembly hall every 3 days.
57 Tdscanuck : Very few mandatory changes are immediate, but almost all AD's are mandatory...they just get several years to comply. I should have said the airlines
58 Gr8circle : You are obviously mixing two separate issues and trying to make a case here....one being the problems faced by Boieng and the other being your obviou
59 474218 : You and I know that, but you would be surprised how many seeming intelligent adults actually believe Boeing can accomplish the complete final assembl
60 Post contains links OyKIE : I did not see this article before and found it very interesting, but sad and unfortunate. http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...?channel=comm&id=news
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Problems With UA At LHR posted Mon Jun 16 2008 01:34:13 by BALHRWWCC
Any Problems With AF And Embraer 190? posted Mon May 19 2008 03:44:05 by LSZS
Flight Search Sites With Aircraft Type? posted Fri Feb 22 2008 17:32:23 by Vasu
Problems With A380's Emergency Chutes posted Sat Feb 9 2008 04:33:10 by N14AZ
Problems With Zoom Airlines! posted Wed Feb 6 2008 07:30:00 by Ba757gla
Problems With Boeing Website? posted Sun Dec 21 2003 03:12:04 by VirginFlyer
DL 60 GIG-ATL Facing Problems With ATC In Brazil posted Tue Oct 28 2008 15:39:08 by LipeGIG
Problems With CRJ-9000's posted Thu Jul 24 2008 18:26:06 by DTWAGENT
Problems With Award Flights To Alaska posted Wed Jun 18 2008 04:47:36 by Ushermittwoch
Problems With UA At LHR posted Mon Jun 16 2008 01:34:13 by BALHRWWCC
Any Problems With AF And Embraer 190? posted Mon May 19 2008 03:44:05 by LSZS
Flight Search Sites With Aircraft Type? posted Fri Feb 22 2008 17:32:23 by Vasu
Problems With A380's Emergency Chutes posted Sat Feb 9 2008 04:33:10 by N14AZ
Problems With CRJ-9000's posted Thu Jul 24 2008 18:26:06 by DTWAGENT
Problems With Award Flights To Alaska posted Wed Jun 18 2008 04:47:36 by Ushermittwoch
Problems With UA At LHR posted Mon Jun 16 2008 01:34:13 by BALHRWWCC
Any Problems With AF And Embraer 190? posted Mon May 19 2008 03:44:05 by LSZS
Flight Search Sites With Aircraft Type? posted Fri Feb 22 2008 17:32:23 by Vasu
Problems With A380's Emergency Chutes posted Sat Feb 9 2008 04:33:10 by N14AZ
Problems With UPS/FedEx Today 4/9? posted Fri Apr 9 2010 07:50:53 by ChrisNH
Etihad: Boeing 777s With 10 Abreast Y Seating posted Mon Nov 16 2009 04:56:27 by Teahan
Problems With Radar/comms At San Juan? posted Fri Aug 28 2009 13:32:53 by LHR380