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DL/NW Merger: Should I Jump Ship Now?  
User currently offlineMICHIGANATC From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 144 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8875 times:

I'm currently an employee of Comair and I'm afraid of what's going to happen when we merge with NWA. At my facility, since NW is the dominant carrier, we are likely going to be overtaken, or at best get the contract for the ramp. I'm good friends with the manager at NW and I was told I could be hired with them if I wanted to jump ship now. They actually have (2) open spots because of an increased flight schedule. So I need your advice!! What do I do?!

Here's my concerns:

-If I hire with NW as a counter agent and Comair wins the contract for the entire NW/DL ramp operation, can a NWA ramper with higher seniority boot me off the counter?
-Would DL allow me to keep the flight seniority, that I have earned with Comair, if I wait to hire on with DL mainline after the NW/DL employees merged?

These questions obviously can't be answered with hard answers because it's all speculatory but I'd appreciate any insight.

BOTTOM LINE: Should I hire on with NWA or ride it out with COMAIR?

67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1893 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8853 times:
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You cant take Comair seniority to Delta. How much senority do you have because if its less than 5 years then there is no real loss. As it stands I would at least try to get on with Delta though as that will probably more of a secure job.


The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineMICHIGANATC From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8831 times:

I was hired on 03/2000. I'm currently a Lead agent making about $14 an hour. DL mainline isn't in my city yet ao my only options are stay with Comair and see what happens or try and get ahead of the picture and hire with NWA. It's a risk though.

User currently offlineNwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3391 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8832 times:

If you are in a station that has mainline NW, then Comair will not be getting the contract. NW mainline will be handling both.


"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineMICHIGANATC From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8772 times:



Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 1):
You cant take Comair seniority to Delta. How much senority do you have because if its less than 5 years then there is no real loss. As it stands I would at least try to get on with Delta though as that will probably more of a secure job.

I'm not too worried about bidding seniority, I'd rather have flight seniority. Do you think I'll keep Flight Seniority?


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10511 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8635 times:



Quoting MICHIGANATC (Reply 4):
I'm not too worried about bidding seniority, I'd rather have flight seniority. Do you think I'll keep Flight Seniority?

With DL, there's no difference.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineMICHIGANATC From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8628 times:

NWA Employees:

If you are a ramp employee can you bump someone off the counter if you have higher seniority than them and you want to move inside?


User currently offlineSunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2056 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8550 times:

My advice get hired by DL. That is where you future is. You will lose all seniority when you go to DL, but because you have experience you should move up fast. You WILL NOT keep you $14 hr. You will start at bottom again. No such thing as flight seniority, only Date of Hire.


Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently offlineNwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3391 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8539 times:



Quoting MICHIGANATC (Reply 6):
NWA Employees:

If you are a ramp employee can you bump someone off the counter if you have higher seniority than them and you want to move inside?

No, you cannot.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineSurprise From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 133 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8542 times:

If you don't want to move I would say your best bet is to go with NW however the whole senority issue is yet to be decided so it's impossible to say who will be abel to bump you in the future. In current Delta stations that have both above and below wing agents you need to put in an Expression Of Interest to move from one to the other. Once there you bid with your respective group so no, you are not allowed to bump someone out of their position. But again we don't know how it's eventually going to work yet. Things are changing very fast but as of right now I don't believe you could keep your flight senority. If they anounce that Comair no longer will be in your city and they offer you jobs because of this you may then get to keep some or all of your seniority like they did in ATL when Delta took over handling of ASA.

User currently offlineMICHIGANATC From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8216 times:



Quoting Nwaesc (Reply 8):
If you are a ramp employee can you bump someone off the counter if you have higher seniority than them and you want to move inside?

No, you cannot.

Can any NWA employees verify the above comment? Is it FACT that a NWA ramp agent can't bump out a NWA counter agent with lower seniority? Thanks.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13642 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8182 times:
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Quoting MICHIGANATC (Reply 6):
If you are a ramp employee can you bump someone off the counter if you have higher seniority than them and you want to move inside?

No - they're different agent classifications.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3391 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8156 times:



Quoting MICHIGANATC (Reply 10):
Can any NWA employees verify the above comment?

WTF?

I am an NWA employee... And as EA CO AS just did, I'll verify it again; you cannot bump out of classification.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineMICHIGANATC From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 8023 times:



Quoting NWAESC (Reply 12):
I am an NWA employee... And as EA CO AS just did, I'll verify it again; you cannot bump out of classification.

Your user ID implied NW at ESC which is operated by Mesaba.


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7553 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7980 times:



Quoting MICHIGANATC (Thread starter):
-If I hire with NW as a counter agent and Comair wins the contract for the entire NW/DL ramp operation, can a NWA ramper with higher seniority boot me off the counter?

What is yours station? If NW already has mainline people there is no contract up for bid, its going to NW regardless.

Quoting MICHIGANATC (Thread starter):
-Would DL allow me to keep the flight seniority, that I have earned with Comair, if I wait to hire on with DL mainline after the NW/DL employees merged?

No

Quoting MICHIGANATC (Reply 6):
NWA Employees:

If you are a ramp employee can you bump someone off the counter if you have higher seniority than them and you want to move inside?

No, but at a lot of stations depending on how large they are some do both ground and gate, its just somewhat of a who's who and who wants what today sometimes.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineNwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3391 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 7897 times:



Quoting MICHIGANATC (Reply 13):
Your user ID implied NW at ESC which is operated by Mesaba.

NWAESC= NorthWest Airlines Equipment Service Chief, which is the NW term for Ramp Lead. That also happens to be what I do at the Red Tail...

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 15):
No, but at a lot of stations depending on how large they are some do both ground and gate, its just somewhat of a who's who and who wants what today sometimes.

Not anymore.

All the 4 hour rule stations are gone.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineCMHARJ From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 127 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7167 times:



Quoting Nwaesc (Reply 17):
All the 4 hour rule stations are gone

What will happen to the 4 hour rule stations during this merger? From what I understand, aren't the 4 hour rule stations that got outsourced still technically NW stations? Will they allow those NW employees that got outsouced to get rehired in? I'm assuming that if a former 4 hour rule station already has DL mainline, then all the work will got to DL, but will they hire on former NW employee employees?


User currently offlineNwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3391 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6948 times:



Quoting CMHARJ (Reply 22):
What will happen to the 4 hour rule stations during this merger? From what I understand, aren't the 4 hour rule stations that got outsourced still technically NW stations? Will they allow those NW employees that got outsouced to get rehired in? I'm assuming that if a former 4 hour rule station already has DL mainline, then all the work will got to DL, but will they hire on former NW employee employees?

I would hope so.

When Crystal Knotek issued her memo on "who would do what where," that was one question I raised. I emailed her, but have not received a response. In that memo, it said that former DL people could return to the ramp if they had the recall rights to do so (pending representation results). The only fair way to do things would be to make that a 2 way street. If someone wants to bid in or still has recall rights to a city, then they should be able to do so. Period. That should also hold true for the displaced rampers from SLC & CVG (the only 2 cities where DL has it's own ramp & NW doesn't).

On a final note, in the cities that do not have DL mainline agents, the plan is to have the remain outsourced...



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineCMHARJ From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 127 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6738 times:

For instance, cities like FAR, MOT and RAP, which were 4 hour rule stations and don't have DL mainline employees, those stations will remain outsourced with no chance of bring the work back in-house to those outsourced NW employees?

User currently offlineNwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3391 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6749 times:

As far as I know, that's correct....


"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1483 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6730 times:

Currently any station with mainline NW service has NW agents/ramp. That is because of their union contract. I remember being in RSW recently and speaking to a DL agent there, DL has DGS and NW has actual NW people on the ramp. There will be a union vote pretty soon at NW/DL, if that vote fails and the union is decertified you better believe a majority of those stations will close and DL will bring in Comair or DGS.

User currently offlineCMHARJ From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 127 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6651 times:



Quoting OOer (Reply 27):
There will be a union vote pretty soon at NW/DL, if that vote fails and the union is decertified you better believe a majority of those stations will close and DL will bring in Comair or DGS.

Remember NW/DL employees. DL cares about you... B.S.


User currently offlineSurprise From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 133 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 6605 times:



Quoting OOer (Reply 27):
Currently any station with mainline NW service has NW agents/ramp. That is because of their union contract

Correct me if I'm wrong, which I'm sure you will do, but didn't NW outsource stations even though they had union contracts?

You know I respect Nwaesc because for the most part he speaks reality and facts not speculation but your virulence and spite towards everything Delta is what makes you irrelevant.

The fact is that because of this merger there will be stations that were outsourced that will once again be staffed by Delta employees and by that I include the Northwest employees that are now part of Delta.

Now give me one shred of proof, just one certain fact that stations will close and DL will bring in Comair or DGS. I'm not talking about the past, give us something that obviously only you are party to, that you can prove this is going to happen.

Honestly, I think your malignancy is doing your cause more harm than good.
.


User currently offlinePictues From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 6557 times:



Quoting OOer (Reply 27):
Currently any station with mainline NW service has NW agents/ramp. That is because of their union contract. I remember being in RSW recently and speaking to a DL agent there, DL has DGS and NW has actual NW people on the ramp. There will be a union vote pretty soon at NW/DL, if that vote fails and the union is decertified you better believe a majority of those stations will close and DL will bring in Comair or DGS.

Maybe not if there is large enough mainline flying, is ATL DGS or their own ramp? FYI I don;t work for either company but just speculating


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 6539 times:



Quoting Surprise (Reply 29):


Quoting OOer (Reply 27):
Currently any station with mainline NW service has NW agents/ramp. That is because of their union contract

Correct me if I'm wrong, which I'm sure you will do, but didn't NW outsource stations even though they had union contracts?

Yes, they most certainly did. I worked for WFS in PIT for three months after they switched from mainline NW to contract, and it totally sucked. Worst airline service company I've ever seen. Unresponsive management, incompetant employees. I'm amazed NW is still flying with the way our business runs on service these days. I would never fly NWA again with some of the contract people they've had, especially at the non-airline stations (WFS/ATS, etc.). AFAIK, if it's NWA-contracted, and there's mainline DL at the same station, mainline DL takes over.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
25 Bbinn333 : I would say take the job at DL, you'll love it !
26 Luv2cattlecall : Jw, what's the 4 hour rule?
27 Skoker : I don't believe that is correct. My city is ALL mainline (DC-9 and A319/320) and I don't know of a single NWA employee in our city. As for the DL sid
28 Rwy04LGA : So THAT's what that means! Would the Delta equivalent be ALA or Performance Leader? Fact! If you think otherwise, why did you pass up all of the bett
29 Tys777 : Wrong...BIS has mainline NW, and UAX, and both airlines are serviced completely by air wisconsin....no mainline employees at last check.
30 SkyguyB727 : That payscale is quite a change for OH. Back in the mid-1990s, OH hired agents at $5.00 per hour, required split shifts and split days off, provided
31 USPIT10L : Wow, ALA, haven't heard that one in a long, long time. We just referred to them as leads. Yes, that would be the equivalency of it at DL.
32 JetJeanes : jump quick, comair may be extitnt or merger soon with pinnacle
33 Bobnwa : Just off the top of my head, I can think of a dozen stations with mainline service that do not have any NWA employees.
34 NWAESC : This used to be the case, but is no longer so. There's 40 stations left that are staffed with mainline. If they are staffed, it's "all or nothing." N
35 USPIT10L : DGS wasn't a bad service company. They just have high turnover because they don't want to pay very well. When I originally started at DGS, I got $7 a
36 Nwaesc : They were looking at the $$$ they'd save, but forgot to equate all of the "soft costs" into the equation. A textbook case of being penny wise & pound
37 USPIT10L : True, but the only ex-NWA people I knew were supervisors, either upstairs or down. Another thing, I didn't think NWA really gave us what we needed to
38 Mayor : Just as an FYI, before there was an ALA, there was a Load Planner and a Team Leader (on the ramp). The load planner had their hands full with manual
39 NWAESC : What were you expecting (honest question)? What didn't you have that you though you would? That's what red tags are for. Why didn't someone do just t
40 BinMonster : Mayor things have changed a bit. Current Ramp Ready Reserve - limted to 999 hours per year and a set pay rate with some flight benfits Customer Servi
41 Mayor : Well, BinMonster can correct me, but the ALA is a combo of the old Load Planner and Team leader. At SLC they had one ALA for each gate. Oh, there used
42 MICHIGANATC : Assuming you can actually get hired these days, what is the starting pay for a NWA job as a CS rep? I'm sure it varies by airport so say at a FNT, SBN
43 Nwaesc : That's $135/mo., correct? Also, if you look on DL Net for the "new" payscales, it has ramp lead & CSS listed with the pay rates noted as "coming soon
44 Surprise : Name: Surprise Date: 2008-11-29 15:11:53 OK here's how the current DL ramp works. At least in ATL. There are PL's, they are above what supervisors use
45 NWAESC : That's what I'm looking forward to as well... Hopefully, it'll stay a rank and file position, too. I would think that having a supervisor out amongst
46 Surprise : There are leads above wing but not below wing. PL's are management in our system, which means if the union is voted in they will not be part of it. Tr
47 BinMonster : ALA is in charge of the flight, they are the point person for all data input for weight and balance, documents prep for the fueling contactor and the
48 KingAir200 : Probably part of why NWA mishandles many less bags than DL. PARS is also connected to the system, and bags are uploaded from Safetrac (scanners) to P
49 Surprise : BinMonster makes some great points. There are so many things NW does so much better than DL and we are grateful for that expertise. So many are watchi
50 BinMonster : Yes, Northwest is also ahead of Delta for mishandled baggage. I would say this is due to the investment Northwest made in their systems. Example Nort
51 Nwaesc : Sounds like what I do, except I can grant time off. There's a lot more to it, but that's the idea.... Of course, I also load/unload planes (duh). Wor
52 KingAir200 : But will they keep any of what we have worked on over here? Only time will tell...
53 USPIT10L : I expected better equipment and people. The NWA ramp people in PIT were more experienced than the DL people I worked with. I figured a more mature ap
54 KingAir200 : Evidently some outstations are going to be getting the real time system too, which will be neat.
55 NWAESC : That's good news. Any idea on when that might be happening? I know. It was rushed, and a lot of the time they were asking people who had just lost th
56 Mayor : Well, what I was talking about was pre-ALA. The team leader was responsible for the flight and of the loading. The leads and supervisors were respons
57 OOer : Ok, so I guess I needed an update...but that used to be the case as pointed out by other members. Now please, how many DL stations have DL ramp?
58 KingAir200 : I don't know an exact date, but they've started some basic infrastructure work for the system here.
59 NWAESC : All things the ESC does here at NW... Well, the load plan itself is computer generated (no more "wheels of destiny"), but it's their responsibility t
60 Burnsie28 : Obviously FAR and MOT don't have DL mainline employees since DL doesn't even serve them, when DL did serve FAR they were ground handled by Skywest wh
61 Mayor : Well, DL's load plan is computer generated, also, buy only after computer inputs from the ALA. Can someone from DL ramp help me here......is there ev
62 Surprise : The LCC plans the flights the ALA's pretty much work within the boundries set by them to load the plane. In ATL there are Load Centers for wide body f
63 Sunking737 : You all think the airlines are bad, work for Disney. They are union, but the unions are a joke at best. the last contract the 2 sides started to talk
64 Northwestair : NWAESC this is for you. I just sent the IAM an email asking them what will happen if some of these stations that were outsourced goes to DL mainline e
65 FlyDeltaJets : As a former ALA myself the system is definatly broken. A measly 135/month extra for a lot more responsibility and very little gained authority is a jo
66 Nwaesc : This is what I know: For stations NW outsourced, and that have DL mainline above wing (OKC is one, right?), DL will take over both above wing. There
67 OOer : Yes Disney is really bad. You have the choice to join the union when you start, yet if you dont join the union you still get the benefits as if you w
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