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Could DL Order The 737-900ER Or A321?  
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6633 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10380 times:

I was wondering, DL/NW has been parking some of their older 757s. I was thinking, perhaps a s a replacement for some of the older domestic 752s, DL/NW could order the 737-900ER or A321. The 739ER and A321 are more efficient for most of DL's and NW's domestic 757 routes, and perhaps they could be a good replacement for some of the older 757s.

As for specifically which type DL would order, I am guessing Boeing has a slight advantage for most future orders, however, I don't think DL will rule out Airbus completely.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineZBBYLW From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 1991 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10377 times:



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
As for specifically which type DL would order, I am guessing Boeing has a slight advantage for most future orders, however, I don't think DL will rule out Airbus completely.

I am going to have to guess that if they do order an aircraft within that market it would be the 737-900 for many reasons. Sure you are going to have the 320s from NW and the common traits between them, but really aside from that, there is nothing convincing enough for DL to not follow through on their Gentleman's agreement with Boeing.



Keep the shinny side up!
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21801 posts, RR: 55
Reply 2, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10335 times:

The 321 would be an excellent plane for MSP/DTW-West Coast, where you have the need for capacity but not the extra range of the 757. And if DL plans on keeping the Airbus fleet in those hubs, then the 321 might make sense.

But I'd still bet on the 739 if DL were to make an order.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineEBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10332 times:



Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 1):
I am going to have to guess that if they do order an aircraft within that market it would be the 737-900 for many reasons. Sure you are going to have the 320s from NW and the common traits between them, but really aside from that, there is nothing convincing enough for DL to not follow through on their Gentleman's agreement with Boeing.

Does the A321 offer any advantages over the 737-900 that might make it more appealing to Delta?



Dare to dream; dream big!
User currently offlineA350 From Germany, joined Nov 2004, 1101 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10241 times:

I wonder if they can convert A319 orders inherited from NW to A321 orders.

Cheers

A350



Photography - the art of observing, not the art of arranging
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9701 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10218 times:

In all honesty, the DL/NW mix has so many fleet types, that it seems like they wouldn't want to go out adding more fleet types. They have enough already! The only common airplane between the two fleets is the 757, so why would they want to replace them?

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 3):

Does the A321 offer any advantages over the 737-900 that might make it more appealing to Delta?

I believe that the 900ER has more range which allows it to easily fly any route that a 737-800 flies, so it can fly ATL/JFK - west coast.

In general the A321 and 737-900ER are very similar planes. Both models are efficient modern airliners and it really depends on the airline, route structure, and contracts they can negotiate as to whether one plane is better.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10113 times:

I wouldn't mind seeing the 900ER in the fleet.

User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5914 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10052 times:

I'd love to see them replace NW's junker 5500 series 752s with new 737-932ERs.
Between 739s and A321s, it SHOULD be 739s. Gentlemen's agreement aside (honestly, I think those days are LONG gone, especially for a Delta board that consists of NW management that never agreed to such a thing), the 739 is a lighter airframe than the 321, if I'm not mistaken.
US had a lot of trouble doing Seattle runs with their A321s back when they first started.
The 321 is a good replacement for the 752 IF AND ONLY IF you need NEITHER the full capacity NOR the full range of the 752. The 739 has similar limits, but is slightly closer to the 752, under most route profiles.

That's my understanding, anyway.


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5914 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 10033 times:

I've just checked, and US (321) and CO (739ER) have their planes fitted with the same number of seats... 173.
The NW 5500 series 752 seats 182, so it wouldn't be a huge capacity loss.
But I still am under the impression that the 739 has longer legs, which would come in handy at places like SLC (hot-n-high), ATL (Hotlanta, anyone?), etc.

That said, the 321 is probably available sooner, and I suspect Airbus would be keen on making a sweet deal with Delta, to try and lay the foundations for a positive future relationship with the world's most ungainly... I mean, largest... airline.


User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 9875 times:

I don't think we will see either ordered for a while. Right now the new DL will have a ton of planes to move around and replace on certain routes so retiring a few 757s may have no effect. But if they did decide to order something i could see them ordering the 737-900ER and no way the A321. There is no reason they would go with airbus they have been a Boeing airline and will most likely continue with Boeing.

User currently offlineERJ135 From Australia, joined Nov 2000, 684 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9821 times:

Simple answer is yes of course they can order either one and as many as they like. Some of each if they wanted to but you would have to ask yourself why? Just because some 757's are being removed doesn't mean you need to replace them with something of the same size.
They could chose to order more of a type they already have, say A319's from NW and simply increase frequency, or go the other way and take some 763's and reduce frequency.



I remember when the DC-3 was new!
User currently offlinePar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7498 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9803 times:

Exactly how much more efficient is a B-737-900E or A-321 over the B-757?

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21801 posts, RR: 55
Reply 12, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9749 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 8):
The 321 is a good replacement for the 752 IF AND ONLY IF you need NEITHER the full capacity NOR the full range of the 752. The 739 has similar limits, but is slightly closer to the 752, under most route profiles.

That's my understanding, anyway.

As I understand it, neither offer the full capabilities of a 757, but the 321 comes closer on capacity and the 739ER comes closer on range.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineJlbmedia From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9746 times:
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Quoting DL767captain (Reply 10):
There is no reason they would go with airbus they have been a Boeing airline and will most likely continue with Boeing.

But is this your Delta anymore? Aren't most of Delta's Top Executives from NW?
And doesn't NW have a history of buying Airbus aircraft? With all that in mind, what makes you think they "will most likely" buy Boeing?



JLB54061
User currently offlineC680 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 588 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9739 times:

If you already own the 757, and it is in fairly good shape, then the best route would be to put them back in service.

At least they are more modern than the NWA DC-9 fleet.....



My happy place is FL470 - what's yours?
User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4058 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9689 times:
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I asked this question in regards to MX purchasing 321s. The problem with the 321 series is the performance which limits where it can fly to and from.

It would seem if and when the times comes for them to evaluate the two, I see them going with the 739ER over the 321s. The 739ER is a more advanced version of the standard 739 series which many have been disappointed in as it did not provide the performance once thought it would. All in all, the 739ER is a much more flexible a/c.

I'm very interested to know how CO's will do once they start utilizing them on their EWR transcons.


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5914 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9683 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 13):
As I understand it, neither offer the full capabilities of a 757, but the 321 comes closer on capacity and the 739ER comes closer on range.

Ah, interesting. Thank you.

Quoting C680 (Reply 15):
If you already own the 757, and it is in fairly good shape, then the best route would be to put them back in service.

That's why I mentioned the 5500 series 757-251s. They're junk, in my opinion. And quite old.


Hate to break it to you guys, but Delta is no loner the same company. Half at best. I wouldn't be surprised to see Delta submit a follow-on order for more A332s. It's an excellent aircraft (except when it's plummeting to earth in Australia), and Delta's already been making google-eyes at them.


User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9599 times:



Quoting Jlbmedia (Reply 14):
what makes you think they "will most likely" buy Boeing?

Delta is the buyer and Delta is boeing, why would they change now? They have great treatment from Boeing, who helped them during bankruptcy and i'm sure DL will stay with them


User currently offlineClipper136 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9461 times:

Truth be told....

The 739ER has only a 50NM Range advantage.
The 321 has a 4-6 passenger advantage.

They are really very equal.

I guess it will depends on the mission that you would want to use the aircraft for. For true trans-con flights the 739ER would be better.

But since neither DL nor NW fly trans-con (coast to coast), the point is moot. ATL, DTW, CVG or MSP to and from the West Coast are well within the capability of both aircraft.

If you need higher capacity on short to medium stage lengths, the the 321 may be better.

With a fleet of 75 - B737s (40 still on order), and 127 - A32Xs (7 still on order) I would not rule out either. How about a mixed order.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9346 times:



Quoting Clipper136 (Reply 19):
But since neither DL nor NW fly trans-con (coast to coast),

 confused ......

You might want to check out the following flights... Wink

DL23
DL607
DL81
DL79
DL137
DL85

and

DL613
DL615
DL73

and

DL627
DL151
DL631..

We can start there... Smile



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineBohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2740 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9134 times:



Quoting Clipper136 (Reply 19):
ATL, DTW, CVG or MSP to and from the West Coast are well within the capability of both aircraft.

Is SLC to the east coast within the capability of both aircraft especially during the summertime? i.e. fully loaded?


User currently offlineBoeingdotcom From Singapore, joined Nov 2008, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 8869 times:

The B737-900ER was design later than the A321 so to compete with A321. It has about the same range, same capacity but the -900ER are more fuel efficient. Which is why Boeing stop selling the -900. Since Delta, American and Continental sign the Gentleman agreement, which doesn't exist now, I bet at the back of the media, the three airlines still buys Boeing aircraft. After all, Delta gets a better deal from Boeing than Airbus. (If Boeing doesn't give Delta a good deal, they are utterly stupid- just my 2 cents) And a better slot for delivery. So, I will give 70% chance that Delta will choose B737-900ER...

OT- Anyone knows if Delta is considering B787, A350 for it's replacement?



Never forget to be yourself.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21801 posts, RR: 55
Reply 22, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8756 times:



Quoting Clipper136 (Reply 19):
But since neither DL nor NW fly trans-con (coast to coast), the point is moot.

There is that little JFK operation that DL has, and the trans-con flights that it operates from there.  Smile

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8717 times:



Quoting Boeingdotcom (Reply 22):

OT- Anyone knows if Delta is considering B787, A350 for it's replacement?

Given they have a good size of B787's on order + options (18+50) and with Grinstein recently stating they will probably take all 50 of their options, its a good bet we'll be seeing B787's in DL colours for a while... Smile

Of course, DL can always purchase the A350 if they see a need for it....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3216 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8692 times:

In what I believe is the first factually relevant post to this thread....

In the joint pilot contract with NW/DL, DL has a payscale for the 737-900/ER. There is no payscale for the A321.


Just FYI....  Wink


25 LACA773 : DL has always had transcons, Clipper136! Perhaps you got confused or were thinking soley of NW? DL does LAX/SAN/SFO/PDX/SEA-JFK; LAX-MCO and I believ
26 Brilondon : I am not convinced that DL will order any aircraft considering they have already ordered and taken delivery of the 737-800's Two things on this one.
27 DUALRATED : So what. Whats the name of the airline? Delta! Thats what matters. NW is gone, So it will be Delta as usual just bigger.
28 Acjflyer : The name of the airline is irrelevant. They kept the name for marketing and branding purposes. I hate to break it to you but if the executives runnin
29 Flynavy : LAX-TPA never ended and will remain for the foreseeable future.
30 Flynavy : Help me out here. What does a potential Delta follow-on order of the A330 have to do with our fleet of 737-800s?
31 Columba : I definitely see the need for either A321 or 737-900ER with the new Delta. Some older 757 need to be replaced soon and these are the only two aircraft
32 DiscoverCSG : Yes. Also CO, WN among the US majors. AA will be there fairly soon (if you count the M80's as Boeings).
33 Bobnwa : NW also had transcons with BOS-LAX/SFO/SEA in the early 90's.
34 DelawareUSA : I do not see why DL/NW has to replace 757 for another 10 years. The 25 year old 757 still have alot of life in them.
35 Flynavy : Not at Delta or Northwest. The "25 year old" examples in the fleet are leaving both on the DL and NW side. DL and NW have a number of newer 757s that
36 Jlbmedia : You have got to be kidding. Do you think the name DELTA makes the decisions, or the people behind the name. It is the people who make the decisions,
37 DeltaL1011man : that would be 5 a/c............ No those days are still very much here...........Delta has a contract to Boeing to order 400-500 a/c..............but
38 Nwa757300 : NW has a history of ordering the right sized plane for their missions. They were loyal only to themselves. They ordered the 330 over the 777 simply b
39 Keesje : & lets hope it stays like that. The first signs are good IMO.
40 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : And some 25 year old (or younger) 757s have already been scrapped. View Large View MediumPhoto © Suresh A. Atapattu
41 DUALRATED : not quite, Delta is still a Boeing airline as they still operate a few I think . As far as Boeing only no they are not, but let see if it stays that
42 Par13del : I may have missed that, but I thought the B-737-900 was initially designed to give the airlines an option after Boeing decided to discontinue the B-7
43 Gigneil : The name of the airline is irrelevant to its actions, who runs it is. The name of the airline is relevant to its branding. The MD80s are 150 seat air
44 Jlbmedia : Of course not. But why do some of the Delta people feel so sure the new Delta will only buy Boeing? This is now a blended Co. Hopefully those in char
45 DUALRATED : There you go again with the "YOU" I did not work hard to save anyone. Its not my airline. and it never was. I'm just a fan of the old, and the new De
46 Columba : Nobody is saying that they must buy Airbus because they are in the fleet must of us who say that DL will very likely buy Airbus (as well as Boeings)
47 Keesje : I think the Delta CEO has made clear there is no exclusivety for any OEM anymore. The right aircraft will be selected based on network requirements. S
48 DeltaL1011man : or he could be scaring Boeing into cheaper aircraft.........very possible No........The only 757 a/c size in the fleet is the........757. No A321s or
49 DUALRATED : He did when? Just like they always have been. Wow nothing like facts.... there are no A321's with DL/NW. Soooo..SO WHAT!?!
50 Jlbmedia : Very succinct. I don't know how to make it any simpler than you did. It just is not that hard of a concept.
51 Brilondon : They already have the 787 on order and DL seem happy with the 757 at the present time. They already have the largest fleet of A330's in the world. Wi
52 DeltaL1011man : Doesn't CX now have the largest fleet?
53 Gigneil : If we're just talking 737s and A320s, then the A320 fleet is over twice as large. In a highly publicized speech. Why don't you look it up? So, its ac
54 DeltaL1011man : I understand that..........but again.......any orders for the 321 would be new orders. Any 739 orders could be options............which do you think
55 Gigneil : A320s, almost certainly, especially post strike. Sure. Its entirely possible. However, his name is Richard Anderson, and he has ordered one metric fu
56 DeltaL1011man : They must not be selling many then.........I have a hard time believing AB can get DL 12 A321s next year...........could be wrong though. Even with t
57 DTWAGENT : I don't see them (DL) ordering any B739's. Right now they want more B77LR's. Once they have those aircraft in their hands then they might look at the
58 DUALRATED : Means nothing until a deal is inked! ........Aviation 101......Oh and I did look it up, thanks I had no idea Amen! Well said. Post question answered.
59 MD-90 : And now Delta has announced that they'd rather have more 77Ls rather than the 788 due to the increased capacity and payload of the 777 airframe. It's
60 WA707atMSP : This post should have ended the discussion. If DL management thought there was even a REMOTE chance DL would buy the A321, they would have ensured th
61 PRAirbus : I also wonder how if the 739 could fit AA fleet needs...AA 757s are not as old as DL but with the current capacity cuts the 739 might be a good option
62 1337Delta764 : I think it could work, as AA is retiring their A300s and will soon be utilizing 757s on most of those Caribbean routes. The 739ER could fill in the v
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