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LH Reduces MCO; Icelandair Suspends SFB  
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32788 posts, RR: 72
Posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9300 times:

Lufthansa will reduce frequency/capacity to Orlando back on 29 March 2009 for the summer, from a daily A340-600 (a switch which was supposed to be year-round, IIRC) to 5x weekly A330-300s. The move will reduce capacity, but bring back First Class service on the Orlando route. Last summer service was 6w A333.

Icelandair will suspend service to Orlando Sanford on 2 May 2009. I have no idea if it is seasonal or not, but peak travel for Europe-Orlando is summer, so they will be missing peak travel.

Aer Lingus will also be reducing Orlando capacity from 4w to 3w flights. British Airways will resume their additional 3w summer flights that they introduced last summer.


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31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4116 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9255 times:

the Icelandair thing may have more to do with the economic upheaval in Iceland than any lack of demand to Orlando. People may just not have the cash to go anywhere up there, and Icelandair has to react to that accordingly. Having said that, I don't think lines for rides at Walt Disney World or EPCOT will be incredibly long in 2009; people in this country aren't hopping on planes with any enthusiasm either.

User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32788 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9240 times:



Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 1):
the Icelandair thing may have more to do with the economic upheaval in Iceland than any lack of demand to Orlando. People may just not have the cash to go anywhere up there, and Icelandair has to react to that accordingly.

I really don't think they rely on traffic from Iceland. Most of the traffic is likely connecting. In fact, I believe that Glasgow was the most important connecting point for the Orlando service, and Icelandair is suspending Glasgow this summer (maybe a coincidence, maybe not).

However, your point still stands, since it pretty much is the same situation for most of Europe.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 1):
Having said that, I don't think lines for rides at Walt Disney World or EPCOT will be incredibly long in 2009; people in this country aren't hopping on planes with any enthusiasm either.

They weren't even long last summer. I go to Disneyland every few weeks, and the place has become a ghost town on some days, and I'd imagine that Disney World is probably seeing a similar situation.



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User currently offlineSunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9150 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
They weren't even long last summer. I go to Disneyland every few weeks, and the place has become a ghost town on some days, and I'd imagine that Disney World is probably seeing a similar situation.

I live in MCO and have family working at WDW, slowed some but not ghost town. They have a new program buy 4 nights stay 7, 3 nights free plus some folks will get free $200 gift card.



Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8644 times:

How is Icelandair doing? I know the country is doing badly. SFB is their longest route (or is one of their longest). Maybe they are trying to cut back, even with fuel being lower. Still, these cutbacks are not good for MCO.


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User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 8599 times:

Dammit!!!! I am never going to get a picture of that DLH A340-600.

They switched to the A340-600s right when we lost daylight savings. Now they are going to go back to the boring A330s right when we finally regain daylight savings.

DLH brought an A340-300 a couple times to MCO last week.


User currently offlineAdicool From Netherlands, joined Apr 2007, 302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 8581 times:

Somewhat interesting to see that LH is deciding to cut capacity and frequency yet decides to introduces their F product on this route. Seems that yields aren't too bad, right? Anyone knows how this route's doing in general for LH?

User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32788 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8510 times:



Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 10):
How is Icelandair doing? I know the country is doing badly.

Icelandair relies on transit traffic, not local traffic, so how Iceland is doing is of less importance than it would be for another country. There isn't much demand from Iceland to any of their U.S. gateways.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 10):
Still, these cutbacks are not good for MCO.

Icelandair does not fly to MCO. They serve SFB.

Quoting Adicool (Reply 12):
Somewhat interesting to see that LH is deciding to cut capacity and frequency yet decides to introduces their F product on this route. Seems that yields aren't too bad, right?

Ironically, weak yields but strong overall demand were the original reason for the switch to the A340-600.



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User currently offlineCityofAthens From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 8426 times:

Very interesting to read that LH will offer First class in this market ... wouldn't have imagined there to be a demand, but there you go!

As for Disney, you couldn't pay me to set foot there - my idea of hell!


User currently offlineReadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3264 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8344 times:

I do the BA LGW-MCO about five times a year in Club and must say that the loads in that cabin appear to be constant at around 70% in both directions at various times of the year.
MCO airport is okay for me getting in and out,however the security lines do not seem to be enforced, family groups in the frequent traveler lines,that kind of thing. I am suprised that LH is going to offer a First class cabin on that route, would like to see the load figures after 6 months.
Next holiday 21stJan for some sunshine I hope.



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32788 posts, RR: 72
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8294 times:



Quoting CityofAthens (Reply 16):
Very interesting to read that LH will offer First class in this market ... wouldn't have imagined there to be a demand, but there you go!

It is not new. They offered First Class in summer 2008 and, well, there was not any demand. But LH doesn't have very many planes without F.



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User currently offlineBaghandling From Denmark, joined Jun 2007, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6337 times:

I am going to fly LH 464 FRA - MCO 8. Dec and back on the 11. dec.

Does any one know if it is a 346 or 343?

How does the bookings look on C class?

Best regards

Martin


User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26999 posts, RR: 57
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6288 times:

I wonder if Icelandair will still go ahead with their new cabins ? I have a brochure on it and it looks very impressive but wonder if they will put it on hold.

User currently onlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4920 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6128 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
Icelandair is suspending Glasgow this summer (maybe a coincidence, maybe not).

Looks like things have changed since the original GLA suspension anouncement. It was due to return in spring. Guess if its not going to operate in summer then the service is axed rather than suspended. Shame because Icelandair have served the Glasgow area since 1945

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7693069.stm



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineUPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6045 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Lufthansa will reduce frequency/capacity to Orlando back on 29 March 2009 for the summer, from a daily A340-600 (a switch which was supposed to be year-round, IIRC) to 5x weekly A330-300s. The move will reduce capacity, but bring back First Class service on the Orlando route. Last summer service was 6w A333.

Have to assume that a daily A346 ended up being to much for MCO, key movement here is the cut from 6 to 5x when comparing to last summer.......



744,742,741,772,773,762,732,735,738,752,727,717,DC10,DC9,M82,M87,319,320,321,343,346,L1011,CRJ2,CRJ9,E190,ATR42,DSH8,
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25338 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5961 times:



Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 14):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Icelandair relies on transit traffic, not local traffic, so how Iceland is doing is of less importance than it would be for another country. There isn't much demand from Iceland to any of their U.S. gateways.

True, but I would've thought the situation in Iceland would still affect them somehow.

When almost everything has to be imported and your currency loses about half its value, it certainly affects you.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
But LH doesn't have very many planes without F.

I seem to recall LH announcing earlier this year that they planned to install F class seats on their entire longhaul fleet. I believe LX also plans to do the same. A few of their current A330-200s are 2-class J/Y but I believe all their new A330-300s which will replace the 332s starting in 2009 will also have F class. Their 343s are all 3-class. With the current economic meltdown it wouldn't be a surprise if airlines with earlier plans to increase premium capacity are reconsidering such plans.


User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5218 times:

I knew I'd heard how LH and EI had been happy about MCO, and here it is:

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/bus...ation/2008/02/lufthansa-aer-l.html

Back in Late February, both carriers were looking into ADDING service. I wonder what has gone wrong since.



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User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32788 posts, RR: 72
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5253 times:



Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 25):
Back in Late February, both carriers were looking into ADDING service.

Both carriers did add service and capacity in summer 2008.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 25):
I wonder what has gone wrong since.

The hurting global economy, which is hurting budget destinations like Orlando and Las Vegas significantly.



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User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4780 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 26):
The hurting global economy, which is hurting budget destinations like Orlando and Las Vegas significantly.

But still, even then the economy was in rough shape. They stated today that the recession we are in currently started last December.



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User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32788 posts, RR: 72
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4752 times:

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 27):
But still, even then the economy was in rough shape. They stated today that the recession we are in currently started last December.


The shape that Europe was in was nowhere near as bad as it was around June or so. People who planned vacations for the winter planned them in advance, and they are likely still going to go on them. It is summer 2009 when European bookings will start to suffer, and it seems like European carriers at Orlando are preparing for it.

I was reading a Disney insider blog today, and it reported that occupancy at Disney World's hotels in January is an atrocious 35% so far. No wonder Disney is giving things away.

Orlando and Las Vegas are in for a horrendous year, but high-end destinations like Maui, Miami and Palm Springs will hurt too.

[Edited 2008-12-01 22:19:49]


a.
User currently offlineDazed767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5498 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4683 times:



Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 11):
Dammit!!!! I am never going to get a picture of that DLH A340-600.

Actually looks like daylight savings is March 8, 2009, so there is still hope Big grin


User currently offlineWilld From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4610 times:

IIRC correctly FI were the first airline to offer an international service to Central Florida. In my experience on LON-MCO via KEF they were always a couple of hundred pounds more expensive than going direct.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 28):
eople who planned vacations for the winter planned them in advance, and they are likely still going to go on them. It is summer 2009 when European bookings will start to suffer, and it seems like European carriers at Orlando are preparing for it.

This is interesting. In the UK, recent press comments, have actually suggested the opposite. I recall someone on these boards also claimed this a couple of weeks back. For Brits a summer holiday abroad is the last thing they will want to give up where as, apparently in a country such as Germany, a summer holiday is one of the first things that gets axed.

Many respectible broadsheets were suggesting that there would be a slump in Summer 2009 and great bargains would be coming. Now the same broadsheets (Sunday Times travel section, Daily Telegraph, FT etc) are reporting that bargains won't be coming as people are still planning on holidaying next year.

Interesting to note that neither BA nor VS have cut frequency. As an aside, my parents live in Central Florida, and flew back last week on VS. They said that the aircraft was 100% full. Not bad for the middle of November which is hardly considered the high season.


User currently offlineCOEI2007 From Vanuatu, joined Jan 2007, 1912 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4416 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 24):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
But LH doesn't have very many planes without F.

But I think they are just looking at addding less capacity, a 330, which happens to have a F cabin. EI doenst sell J seats on MCO, so there cant be much demand for F/J traffic to/from MCO


User currently offlinePRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4292 times:

MCO is a leisure market, low fares, low yields...airlines would rather fly to other markets.

User currently offlineBoeing74741R From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2007, 1164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4077 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):
It is summer 2009 when European bookings will start to suffer, and it seems like European carriers at Orlando are preparing for it.

The exception to that would be VS, as they are due to add a THIRD service from MAN on Saturdays next summer from June to October with an A340-300 by all accounts.

Reply 180 on this thread explains: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4193523/


25 Icelandair75W : While the Icelandic currency is weak, others are stronger. Having said that, and taking into consideration the fact that most of our traffic is passen
26 Argonaut : A lot of history to that service...GLA's longest-standing international route. IIRC, it is also FI's oldest international route. I believe that until
27 TravelGuy : It is my understanding the FI yields ex-GLA have traditionally been thin even in robust economic times due to the parsimonious nature of GLA-origin p
28 Argonaut : Over many years, I have almost never been on any GLA-KEF or KEF-GLA flight that was not solidly full. There's a traditional market among trawler crew
29 TravelGuy : Good loads with generally not good yields is not a good scenario. An airline has to be able to get good fares for the "solidly full" flights to make
30 Argonaut : What you've "seen"? What's your source? If you make a sweeping statement, at least be able/prepared to back it up properly.
31 TravelGuy : Unfortunately I am not in a position to do so. Historically the fares FI generates out of GLA tend to be on the lower side as the market has a higher
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