FX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 672 posts, RR: 3 Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3448 times:
I would ask the same about Air Florida and Trans Brazil.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 11647 posts, RR: 13 Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3301 times:
Quoting Jimbobjoe (Thread starter): One of them is Lacsa. Anyone know why Lacsa didn't take any 757s?
Quoting FX1816 (Reply 1): I would ask the same about Air Florida and Trans Brazil.
Air Florida's order for 3 757s was cancelled before the aircraft were built, no doubt due to their financial problems. They filed for bankruptcy and suspended service in July 1984.
FX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 672 posts, RR: 3 Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3294 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 2): Quoting FX1816 (Reply 1):
I would ask the same about Air Florida and Trans Brazil.
Air Florida's order for 3 757s was cancelled before the aircraft were built, no doubt due to their financial problems. They filed for bankruptcy and suspended service in July 1984.
Thank you!! although it would have been really neat to see a 757 in the Air Florida livery.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 2057 posts, RR: 5 Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3275 times:
LR LACSA from Costa Rica became a Boeing operator in 1980 when they acquired some 727s in replacement of their BAC 1-11s.
By the mid 80s, LR utilized no more than four 727 frames. As a result, new destinations were added in the radar. Los Angeles, New Orleans, Cancun and New York City were included into its route map and probably they discovered that the 727 was the perfect fit in those days.
Notice that some of their routes comprised LR SJO-SAP-CUN-MSY, LR SJO-SAL-MEX-LAX, LR SJO-GUA-MEX-LAX and LR SJO-SAP-CUN-JFK, among others.
I ignore specific details, but Eastern Airlines usually operated EA MIA-SJO in Costa Rica with 757s and probably LR eyed carefully these operations.
By the end of the 80s, LR argued a high rate of fuel consumption regarding their 727s and they rather aimed for Airbus equipments in the new decade.
Yyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 15069 posts, RR: 64 Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3232 times:
Lacsa placed an early order for 2 757's. It was subsequently cancelled.
In addition to the above, Aloha ordered 3 757 with GE engines in the early 80's with the CFM 32. This order was also cancelled and with it, the GE-powered 757 option.
Jimbobjoe From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 544 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3174 times:
Thank you for the information. It's a shame really, I think the 757 would have been quite pretty in Lacsa colors.
Having said that, a Lacsa 757 order might resulted in no Airbuses for Lacsa, which I think might have made it more difficult for Airbus to have dominated Latin America the way they do now.
LatinPlane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2445 posts, RR: 17 Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3060 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 4): LR LACSA from Costa Rica became a Boeing operator in 1980 when they acquired some 727s in replacement of their BAC 1-11s.
By the mid 80s, LR utilized no more than four 727 frames. As a result, new destinations were added in the radar. Los Angeles, New Orleans, Cancun and New York City were included into its route map and probably they discovered that the 727 was the perfect fit in those days.
Notice that some of their routes comprised LR SJO-SAP-CUN-MSY, LR SJO-SAL-MEX-LAX, LR SJO-GUA-MEX-LAX and LR SJO-SAP-CUN-JFK, among others.
A very interesting route map indeed. By the early 1990s right before it was bought by TACA, LACSA's route map streched from Canada all the way to Santiago de Chile flying a mix of A320s and 737-200s. The routes were quite interesting, for example: San Jose - Panama - Cartagena de Indias - Caracas - San Juan PR on a 737-200. Then there was the San Jose - Panama - Quito - Quayaquil - Rio de Janeiro - Buenos Aires route (something like that I recall) on an A320.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 2057 posts, RR: 5 Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2896 times:
Quoting Jimbobjoe (Reply 6): a Lacsa 757 order might resulted in no Airbuses for Lacsa, which I think might have made it more difficult for Airbus to have dominated Latin America the way they do now.
During the 80s, all the frames operated by LR were configured exclusively in Y, meaning that the 200-seater 757 probably wasn't the best fit for the airline in order to correspond to the accurate demand in those days.
Notice that most of the current fleet of GRUPO TACA consists by a mix of 150-seater 320s, 120-seater 319s and now they're starting to receive their brand new 100-seater E90s.
Only four 180-seater 321s are involved into their fleet and GRUPO TACA hasn't recently ordered larger planes than the 320.
As a matter of fact, LR was the first Latin American commercial operator of the Airbus equipment and prior to bigger regional operators such as LAN system and MX.
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Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 7): By the early 1990s right before it was bought by TACA, LACSA's route map streched from Canada all the way to Santiago de Chile flying a mix of A320s and 737-200s.
LR started an expansion in South America once they received their 320s.
Lima, Santiago de Chile and Buenos Aires were opened by the 90s as they also started to consolidate a base at LIM, being strategically situated in the mid of the south cone of the continent.
TACA PERU and GRUPO TACA later took advantage of this fact, being a legacy originally developed by LACSA.
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Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 7): The routes were quite interesting, for example: San Jose - Panama - Cartagena de Indias - Caracas - San Juan PR on a 737-200. Then there was the San Jose - Panama - Quito - Quayaquil - Rio de Janeiro - Buenos Aires route (something like that I recall) on an A320.
Despite the fact that code-shares and alliances were inventions mostly developed during the 90s, LACSA, ECUATORIANA [no longer in service] and VARIG sustained a commercial agreement during the 80s that allowed the weekly route GIG-GRU-GYE-UIO-SJO and returning the next day as SJO-UIO-GYE-GIG-GRU. The path was operated by RG and regularly with 762. If I remember correctly, a layover at PTY was sometimes added later.
Jimbobjoe From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 544 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 2807 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 9): all the frames operated by LR were configured exclusively in Y
I remember that. That was a novelty for me, I remember flying in 1A several times.
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 9): allowed the weekly route GIG-GRU-GYE-UIO-SJO
You know, a lot of the things they did at that time period (like having weekly multi-stop flights) would be the type of thing that people would say today were bad business decisions. What was their thinking? How successful were they?
Latinplane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2445 posts, RR: 17 Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 2727 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 9): Despite the fact that code-shares and alliances were inventions mostly developed during the 90s, LACSA, ECUATORIANA [no longer in service] and VARIG sustained a commercial agreement during the 80s that allowed the weekly route GIG-GRU-GYE-UIO-SJO and returning the next day as SJO-UIO-GYE-GIG-GRU. The path was operated by RG and regularly with 762. If I remember correctly, a layover at PTY was sometimes added later.
Very interesting. Do you have a route map of LACSA right before they were completely absorbed into Grupo TACA? I noticed the old LACSA route map in your profile dating back to the 80s.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 2057 posts, RR: 5 Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 2636 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 9): GIG-GRU-GYE-UIO-SJO and returning the next day as SJO-UIO-GYE-GIG-GRU. The path was operated by RG and regularly with 762.
The A300 was initially deployed as well.
Sometimes, CRUZEIRO operated the route on behalf of RG during the mid 80s.
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Quoting Jimbobjoe (Reply 10): a lot of the things they did at that time period (like having weekly multi-stop flights) would be the type of thing that people would say today were bad business decisions. What was their thinking? How successful were they?
This pattern was commonly utilized by several carriers in the old days. Speaking about the Central American scene, BI Braniff International had a remarkable base at PTY where most of their South American flights stopped there during the 70s.
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Quoting Latinplane (Reply 11): Do you have a route map of LACSA right before they were completely absorbed into Grupo TACA? I noticed the old LACSA route map in your profile dating back to the 80s.
The attached route map from my own collection was issued in October 1986 and belonging to the 727 era.
During the 70s, LACSA also flew LR SJO-GCM-MIA, LR SJO-ADZ and LR SJO-PTY-BAQ-MAR-CCS, among others.
I remember the service in the cabin that included several national candies: "tapitas", "morenitos" and so forth.
I do declare that my enthusiasm for aviation wise was strongly inspired by all these facts developed for such Costa-Rican airline.
2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 5 Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week ago) and read 2613 times:
Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 7): San Jose - Panama - Cartagena de Indias - Caracas - San Juan PR on a 737-200.
It was 1st SJO-PTY-BAQ-MAR-CCS, then MAR was dropped and SJU added, they even operated SJO-PTY-CCS-SJU 4 x week in additon to that other SJU route.
Quote: Then there was the San Jose - Panama - Quito - Quayaquil - Rio de Janeiro - Buenos Aires route (something like that I recall) on an A320.
As far as I remember, Lacsa never flew their own metal to Brazil.
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 9): a layover at PTY was sometimes added later.
No PTY layover was ever added. The Costa Rica - Ecuador - Brazil flight was something arranged among Lacsa, Ecuatoriana and Varig.
I think one of the reasons behind Lacsa's wish for a B757 was the fact that their competitor at that time TA, had B767 and they felt they needed something bigger than a A320/B727-200/B737-200.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 2057 posts, RR: 5 Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2516 times:
Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 13): one of the reasons behind Lacsa's wish for a B757 was the fact that their competitor at that time TA, had B767 and they felt they needed something bigger than a A320/B727-200/.
Good point.
However, the former TA utilized the 767 from SAL mostly for the O&D traffic towards California.
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Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 13): No PTY layover was ever added. The Costa Rica - Ecuador - Brazil flight was something arranged among Lacsa, Ecuatoriana and Varig.
So, GRU-MAO-PTY was the only route operated by RG in Panama, some years backward.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 2057 posts, RR: 5 Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2391 times:
Quoting Jimbobjoe (Reply 15): So I take it that there was never an A300 with even a small Lacsa logo on it?
I meant the A300 initially deployed by Varig in the route SJO-UIO-GYE-GIG-GRU around the mid-80s.
I can barely remember some adverts in the newspaper that called it as the "super espacioso."
As pointing out before, this flight sustained cooperation with both EU Ecuatoriana and LR Lacsa.
Latinplane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2445 posts, RR: 17 Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2282 times:
Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 13): It was 1st SJO-PTY-BAQ-MAR-CCS, then MAR was dropped and SJU added, they even operated SJO-PTY-CCS-SJU 4 x week in additon to that other SJU route.
I remember now, thanks for the correction.
It was VIASA that operated Caracas - Cartagena - San Jose 2x weekly 727 service.
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 12):
The attached route map from my own collection was issued in October 1986 and belonging to the 727 era.
During the 70s, LACSA also flew LR SJO-GCM-MIA, LR SJO-ADZ and LR SJO-PTY-BAQ-MAR-CCS, among others.
Thanks for the map - very nice. If you find one from the 90s, please post it.
I remember that LACSA's flight to LAX would mostly fill up at SAL. Many people from the large Salvadorean community prefered LACSA's service over TACA's when these two were independent from each other.
Viaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 1235 posts, RR: 13 Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2272 times:
Quoting Latinplane (Reply 17): Many people from the large Salvadorean community prefered LACSA's service over TACA's when these two were independent from each other.
Hmmm I wonder why that was.
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SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 2057 posts, RR: 5 Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2238 times:
Quoting Latinplane (Reply 17): It was VIASA that operated Caracas - Cartagena - San Jose 2x weekly 727 service.
Servivensa from Venezuela operated CCS-CTG-SJO by the early 90s with 727.
Are you sure that VIASA sent their 727s to San Jose ?
VIASA flew with both DC-8 and DC-10 to Costa Rica around the 70s and 80s.
I'm unsure related to the path during the 70s, but it could have been SJO-CCS-[Canary Islands or Santiago de Compostela]-MAD.
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Quoting Latinplane (Reply 17): If you find one from the 90s, please post it.
Latinplane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2445 posts, RR: 17 Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2177 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 19): Are you sure that VIASA sent their 727s to San Jose ?
I have VIASA's last published schedule right before they ceased ops and that's what is shows. Did Avensa/Servivensa pick it up right after that?
Jimbobjoe From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 544 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2144 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 16): I meant the A300 initially deployed by Varig in the route SJO-UIO-GYE-GIG-GRU around the mid-80s.
Allright. I asked that question because I remember seeing in the paper (again, the 1980's) some sorta advert about changes to Lacsa schedules, and where an A300 would be flying.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 2057 posts, RR: 5 Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2087 times:
Quoting Latinplane (Reply 20): I have VIASA's last published schedule right before they ceased ops and that's what is shows. Did Avensa/Servivensa pick it up right after that?
Sorry, I didn't find any reliable source to answer the question.
If I remember correctly, Avensa/Servivensa flew to Costa Rica around 1993 and 1996 as well as VIASA ceased their operations in 1997.
I don't think that both Venezuelan airlines had flown simultaneously to Costa Rica.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 2057 posts, RR: 5 Reply 23, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1896 times:
Quoting Latinplane (Reply 20): I have VIASA's last published schedule right before they ceased ops and that's what is shows.
You are entirely correct, Latin Plane !
I did a research and found the "Mini-Guia" edited in Costa Rica by September 1994. It states the following information:
VA 990......CCS 19:15.........CTG unknown......Tu, Th, Sa, Su........72S
VA 990......CTG 20:45.........SJO 21:30...........Tu, Th, Sa, Su........72S
VA 991......SJO 09:15..........CTG 12:30..........Mo, We, Fr, Su.......72S
VA 991......CTG unknown.....CCS 15:55..........Mo, We, Fr, Su.......72S
Beeweel15 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 902 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1758 times:
Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 5): This order was also cancelled and with it, the GE-powered 757 option.
Viaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 1235 posts, RR: 13 Reply 25, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1734 times:
Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 24): has the 757 ever been built with GE Engines
Nope, just P&W and R-R that was it. One single order specifying the CF6-32 power plant (a stripped-down version of the CF6-80) was placed, only to be cancelled later.
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