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CO Fleet Plan Changes  
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5558 posts, RR: 7
Posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 12187 times:

In what was about the only concrete statement by CO's rep at the Credit Suisse conference today, Gerry Laderman confirmed that CO will take the last 4 ex-ATA 753's from Boeing, one in 2009 and 3 more in 2010.

Among other changes, the two 777's once shown for 2009 delivery are now shown in 2010. Laderman also opined that the first 2 787 deliveries now shown in 2010 probably will slip to 2011.

The net of this is a reduction of 11 mainline aircraft in 2009 and an addition of 19 (counting the dubious 787's) for 2010.

Among RJ's, 10 CRJ200's get parked in 2009; in 2010, 7 more plus 10 ERJ-145 go.

The new fleet plan is posted on CO's website as part of the Credit Suisse presentation slides.


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 12081 times:

Does CO pay for the 787s when they are delivered? Or have they paid for part of the order and the rest when they are delivered?

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31240 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 11790 times:
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Quoting DL767captain (Reply 1):
Does CO pay for the 787s when they are delivered? Or have they paid for part of the order and the rest when they are delivered?

For (effectively) all commercial airplane orders, there is an initial deposit, along with "progress payments" at various stages of production, and then a final payment prior to delivery.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11509 times:

Not much has changed since their last fleet plan update, save for the addition of the four former ATA 757-300s and pushing back some (12-14?) 737-900ER deliveries.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...general_aviation/read.main/4026567



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinePlanesailing From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 816 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11456 times:



Quoting MasseyBrown (Thread starter):
In what was about the only concrete statement by CO's rep at the Credit Suisse conference today, Gerry Laderman confirmed that CO will take the last 4 ex-ATA 753's from Boeing, one in 2009 and 3 more in 2010.

What are three of them going to do for over a year, just sit around?


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11420 times:

Quoting Planesailing (Reply 4):
What are three of them going to do for over a year, just sit around?

It would be nice to put one into a certification program for 757-300 Winglets, or perhaps some AMC charters.

[Edited 2008-12-02 16:04:00]


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinePlanesailing From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 816 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11339 times:

It just seems strange for a modern completed airframe to sit around for such a long period of time.

Granted, there are global economic considerations to think about, but the airframes have been idle for some time now, which is going to be extended by over 12 months on three of them.

Is the 753 such an unwanted aircraft?


User currently offlineWN700Driver From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 10954 times:

DL767,


Can't speak for anyone but Boeing, but I know that giant from Seattle takes one payment as a deposit when the order is placed, one more when the airframe is complete enough to hang powerplants and one final payment at delivery. AFAIK, they are equal amounts in all cases.


User currently offlineAirlineAddict From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 420 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 10556 times:
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Quoting MasseyBrown (Thread starter):
Among RJ's, 10 CRJ200's get parked in 2009; in 2010, 7 more plus 10 ERJ-145 go.

Please pardon my ignorance, are these planes owned by CO or by Chautaqua and ExpressJet, respectively? Based on the presentation it sounds like they are Continental's.


User currently offlineCo2BGR From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 558 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 10437 times:

CO leases XJT's ERJ's from someone and leases them to XJT.

Chautaqua sources (I think they are leased) all of their CO airplanes on their own.



There are too many self indulgent weiners in this town with too much bloody money" Randal Raines- Gone in 60 Seconds
User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1458 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9939 times:



Quoting Planesailing (Reply 4):
What are three of them going to do for over a year, just sit around?

Pretty much, yes. They have already been sitting for 8 months in VCV and I am sure under some sort of storage program.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
It would be nice to put one into a certification program for 757-300 Winglets

That is always a possibility. There were discussions in 2007 between APB and TZ, CO, and NW. I think the only chance of this is if now DL would be onboard and the ROI works with projected fuel prices. The certification costs are higher with the small fleet size, but that would be lower with commitments from both CO and NW with about 2/3 of the entire 753 fleet.

Quoting Planesailing (Reply 6):
It just seems strange for a modern completed airframe to sit around for such a long period of time.

Granted, there are global economic considerations to think about, but the airframes have been idle for some time now, which is going to be extended by over 12 months on three of them.

Is the 753 such an unwanted aircraft?

The 753 is a niche aircraft and therefore, difficult to place especially in an economic downturn. It suffers from its lack of range compared to a -200, but does have its charter or domestic US market in high capacity low yield routes where its low seat mile costs are desirable. I think CO mainly uses them for this case and to free up -200s for higher yield trans-atlantic routes.



35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5558 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9784 times:



Quoting Planesailing (Reply 6):
It just seems strange for a modern completed airframe to sit around for such a long period of time. ... Is the 753 such an unwanted aircraft?

There are few operators of the 300 variant. CO is apparently the only one wanting more. For such a small number of planes a charter operator is probably the only other potential customer; but charter operators are too busy going bankrupt at the moment.

Based on the length of time it took to firm up the deal and the state of the industry, I'd guess CO got a very good deal from Boeing.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineEXCOASA1982 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 9543 times:



Quoting AirlineAddict (Reply 8):
10 CRJ200's get parked in 2009

I wasn't aware they operated any CRJ200s?


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5558 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 9453 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):
Not much has changed since their last fleet plan update, save for the addition of the four former ATA 757-300s

Yep, you're right. Laderman himself was pretty interesting making the presentation, though. Not the usual rat-a-tat-tat MBA with a New York accent you often hear at these conferences, he's more like an old professor who has forgotten more than his audience will ever know.

Anyway, IIRC, one of the questioners referred to past days when it was easier to finance aircraft, and Laderman replied with something like, "Contrary to the opinion here, it has NEVER been easy to finance aircraft." I bet he has the scars to prove it.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineCLE757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 9294 times:



Quoting EXCOASA1982 (Reply 12):


Quoting AirlineAddict (Reply 8):
10 CRJ200's get parked in 2009

I wasn't aware they operated any CRJ200s?

yep Chautauqua does, and I wish they would retire them.



Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineDualQual From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 786 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8999 times:



Quoting Planesailing (Reply 4):
What are three of them going to do for over a year, just sit around?

They have to be reconfigured into a CO configuration. My understanding is that some of the items that are needed are on backorder.


User currently offlineExpressJet_ERJ From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 834 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7998 times:

CHQ is retiring all the CRJs for CO. We dont like them any more than you guys do. They will all be gone by 2010. I hope the 10 ERJs arent ours that are going away.


ETOPS...Engines Turn Or People Swim
User currently offlineJimbobjoe From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7727 times:



Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 11):
I'd guess CO got a very good deal from Boeing.

In addition to which they probably got another nifty advantage--if there is an uptick in demand, CO can easily add them to their fleet without much delay.


User currently offlineNuggetsyl From United States of America, joined May 2006, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5527 times:

Now that we are taking the 4 ata's 757-300 is it right to say we operate half the worlds fleet of 757-300? I think there were 50 made.

User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9665 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5519 times:



Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 11):
There are few operators of the 300 variant. CO is apparently the only one wanting more. For such a small number of planes a charter operator is probably the only other potential customer; but charter operators are too busy going bankrupt at the moment.

I'm sure DL would like more but only 16 753s with P&Ws were made...........and they have them all. At this point it wouldn't be worth the cost to add the 4 RR 753s to the fleet plus AFAIK CO already called these birds when the picked the others from ATA.



yep.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5453 times:

DL really missed the boat by not ordering the 757-300 (with Pratts) when the line was still open, no better aircraft to move 220 passengers around domestically. It would have been ideal for ATL-Florida, ATL-LAS, ATL-LAX.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineCOalways From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 372 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5428 times:

This is going to be a pretty bird when she come to the CO fleet with LiveTv added!

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5360 times:



Quoting COalways (Reply 21):
This is going to be a pretty bird when she come to the CO fleet with LiveTv added!

The 757 is my favorite aircraft, CO's 757-300s with Livetv will be amazing.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9665 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5318 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 20):


DL really missed the boat by not ordering the 757-300 (with Pratts) when the line was still open, no better aircraft to move 220 passengers around domestically. It would have been ideal for ATL-Florida, ATL-LAS, ATL-LAX.

DL need want or need them at the time..........(really don't need them now but adding a few more to NWA wouldn't be bad) They had the 763s and AFAIK the still used 763ERs on Domestic routes.



yep.
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7557 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3626 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
It would be nice to put one into a certification program for 757-300 Winglets, or perhaps some AMC charters.

It was said that the 757-300 can't have them because it would make the wings too heavy and actually have an adverse affect on the aircraft.

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 11):
CO is apparently the only one wanting more

NW wanted more, but since they have the PW engines, they won't take RR engines.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 23):
They had the 763s and AFAIK the still used 763ERs on Domestic routes.

The 753 is A LOT cheaper to operate than a 767



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
25 Boeing12345 : Actually CO is putting winglets on the -300's. They will be providing the A/C for the certification too.
26 TZTriStar500 : This is false.
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