Thomacf From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 540 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2841 times:
Based on my numerous experiences at both airports over the past two years, is it a safe observation that AA does not operate MD80s out of MIA and 737s out of ORD? I know they have flown these aircraft into both airports in the past. If this is true, any particular reason as to why?
Steex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1423 posts, RR: 9 Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2832 times:
Yes, this is true. By not operating the S80 at ORD, AA does not have to spend the money to keep S80 parts (and trained staff) at ORD. Likewise for the 737 at MIA.
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10188 posts, RR: 62 Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2768 times:
Yes - it is true that AA has not landed an MD80 in Miami in several years, nor a 737 in Chicago. Other examples of this include AA having eliminated all A300 flying in Boston and all 737 flying at JFK.
This was a very conscious decision made on AA's part because by systematically limiting these fleet types to particular hubs, and systematically keeping them out of others, the company saves substantially on equipment, maintenance, training, spare parts, etc.
Certain economic realities in the recent past, however, have somewhat changed this calculus. While it made since several years ago to eliminate 737 flying in Chicago, it no longer does because fuel prices (even at their recently-dropped levels, still historically high) have made those long ORD-West Coast runs much more costly for the relatively less-fuel-efficient MD80s.
That is why, within the next six months, we will start to see many 737s coming back into the Chicago market and put first on the West Coast runs, and probably also into some of the premium Northeast markets (LGA, DCA and maybe HPN come to mind).
DTW757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1415 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2683 times:
Quoting Commavia (Reply 3): That is why, within the next six months, we will start to see many 737s coming back into the Chicago market and put first on the West Coast runs, and probably also into some of the premium Northeast markets (LGA, DCA and maybe HPN come to mind).
I would think that the 737 will make an appearance back at ORD particularly since there are supposed to be 36 delivered in 2009. However I have to wonder that the MD80 would be completely phased out of DFW first since they see both the MD80 and 737. As far as seeing a 737 on ORD-HPN? Do you really think so? This route is currently operated by MQ and the ERJ.
AJMIA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 708 posts, RR: 16 Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2666 times:
Quoting DTW757 (Reply 4): As far as seeing a 737 on ORD-HPN? Do you really think so? This route is currently operated by MQ and the ERJ.
I hope we get the 737 back on ORD-HPN. Eagle took over the route when the 737s were pulled out of ORD because the S80 cannot operate into HPN.
It would also be nice to see a few HPN-MIA and/or HPN-DFW flights.
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10188 posts, RR: 62 Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2643 times:
Quoting DTW757 (Reply 4): I would think that the 737 will make an appearance back at ORD particularly since there are supposed to be 36 delivered in 2009.
It has already been announced internally that these new 737s will largely be heading to ORD starting early next year.
Quoting DTW757 (Reply 4): However I have to wonder that the MD80 would be completely phased out of DFW first since they see both the MD80 and 737.
ORD will get them first for a few reasons. First, the ORD-West Coast runs are generally longer than the DFW-West Coast runs, and thus need the less-fuel-efficient MD80s currently operating those routes phased out first. Second, while it is true that DFW sees both, it is also true that DFW is a massively larger hub, and thus AA won't bother simplifying that operation by standardizing on a single fleet type, as it would require a whole bunch more MD80s. Remember - DFW alone accounts for probably 1/3 of AA's entire mainline network.
Quoting DTW757 (Reply 4): As far as seeing a 737 on ORD-HPN? Do you really think so? This route is currently operated by MQ and the ERJ.
Yes, I do think it is a possibility to get at least 1-2 daily 737s back on ORD-HPN, replacing some of those Eagle Embraers.
HPN is a premium market, serving several key corporate accounts - like IBM - and those customers want an F cabin back. United Express uses 2-class Embraer EJets on the route, putting AA at a competitive disadvantage.
As I had suggested a few months back in an earlier thread on this topic, I could envision a schedule like this:
ORD 0630 HPN 0935 ER4
ORD 0915 HPN 1220 ER4
ORD 1255 HPN 1610 738
ORD 1515 HPN 1830 ER4
ORD 1905 HPN 2220 738
HPN 0630 ORD 0755 738
HPN 1000 ORD 1125 ER4
HPN 1255 ORD 1420 ER4
HPN 1700 ORD 1830 738
HPN 1855 ORD 2030 ER4
Quoting AJMIA (Reply 5): It would also be nice to see a few HPN-MIA and/or HPN-DFW flights.
I definitely think AA could easily make a well-timed HPN-MIA flight work, with, say, a schedule like this:
DUALRATED From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1001 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2606 times:
Quoting Commavia (Reply 3): Yes - it is true that AA has not landed an MD80 in Miami in several years
MIA saw a maddog this year a emergency landing from PBI. Otherwise you are correct, I remember how strange it was seeing it there.
AAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3410 posts, RR: 50 Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2544 times:
Quoting Commavia (Reply 3): This was a very conscious decision made on AA's part because by systematically limiting these fleet types to particular hubs, and systematically keeping them out of others, the company saves substantially on equipment, maintenance, training, spare parts, etc.
Known as "The Simplification Plan," the initial first year goal was $800 M/year in operational cost savings. That quickly grew to over $2B/yr with additional acft routing changes. The initial Simplification Plan moves were closing the SFO 737 & 777 pilot crew base, pulling 737s from ORD (and closing that crew base status) along with pulling MD80s from MIA (and closing that crew base status). BOS and DCA 737 pilot crew bases soon followed.
Quoting Commavia (Reply 3): That is why, within the next six months, we will start to see many 737s coming back into the Chicago market
Correct. Original plan had 737s returning to ORD in February; however, since the first two airframe deliveries have been pushed back until March, exact schedule changes are currently unknown to those outside of Capacity Planning (or whatever new name management has given that workgroup).
Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 7): MIA saw a maddog this year a emergency landing from PBI.
And ORD saw a 737 divert into there this summer. Reportedly very funny as the ORD folks didn't know what to do or how to handle that type acft since it hasn't been to ORD in a number of years [funny because LAX-ORD was the very first route the 737 began flying when introduced into AA service]. ORD has gotten "up to speed" on the 737 recently as AA has been overnighting a 737 at ORD on a semi-regular basis [equipment substitution for regularly scheduled DFW-ORD flight] for two months --necessary to give ORD folks a chance to get familar with (and re-qualified on) their "new" plane.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
Flyingbronco05 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3838 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2402 times:
Quoting Commavia (Reply 3): Yes - it is true that AA has not landed an MD80 in Miami in several years, nor a 737 in Chicago.
Wrong. Have seen 2 Boeing 737's for American at ORD within the past month.
LMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2343 times:
Quoting AAR90 (Reply 8): Correct. Original plan had 737s returning to ORD in February; however, since the first two airframe deliveries have been pushed back until March, exact schedule changes are currently unknown to those outside of Capacity Planning (or whatever new name management has given that workgroup).
AA was supposed to start a 737 B Check at ORD in January. Of course with the Boeing strike this has been pushed back to March.
Steex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1423 posts, RR: 9 Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2238 times:
Quoting AA388 (Reply 2): Um AA ONLY operates the S80 ar ORD... flip it around and then you're correct..
Indeed, my mistake. My typing got ahead of my thinking there!
Planespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 5 Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2223 times:
Quoting Flyingbronco05 (Reply 9): Wrong. Have seen 2 Boeing 737's for American at ORD within the past month.
I thought so!
I live and work in Northbrook/Glenview/Deerfield, with a great view towards the east to see airplanes stack up on final for RWY 22R. I was going home a few weeks ago and looked up and was pretty sure I saw an AA 738 heading towards ORD. I meant to check on FlightAware but never did ... mice to know I wasn't crazy.
OzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4680 posts, RR: 23 Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2169 times:
ElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1515 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2124 times:
Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 14): Must be noise issues as the runway is long enough.
Noise. MD-80s have used the runways at HPN in the past.
Ckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 4651 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2104 times:
A friend of mine is a 757/767 captain out of ORD, and he's heard that it's almost certain that 737s will return to ORD, and ORD will be a 737 crew base. When ORD will start seeing 737s isn't known yet, based in part on the Boeing strike. AA has to take delivery of enough 737s to make it worthwhile to start restocking parts.
Planespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2038 times:
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