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Lufthansa - Board Approves Acquisiton Of OS  
User currently offlineMarquis From Germany, joined Sep 2005, 274 posts, RR: 1
Posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5423 times:



Quote:

03.12.08

Lufthansa will initially acquire the 41.56 per cent share in Austrian Airlines AG held by Österreichische Industrieholding AG (ÖIAG). This share package is to be acquired at a price of EUR 366,000. In addition to this, a debtor warrant will be arranged, of which Lufthansa will pay a sum of up to EUR 163m depending on Austrian Airlines’ economic performance and the Lufthansa share outperforming its competitors[...]

http://konzern.lufthansa.com/en/html...en/app/show/en/2008/12/879/HOM&s=0

Lufthansa is really becoming the new Goliath besides Air France-KLM in Europe.


Riding the radials...
52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5600 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5077 times:

And the Government of Austria approved today.

Sorry to see another distinctive airline fade away.

Lufthansa should commission a collection of beer steins with the logos of their subsidiaries on them. I'd buy the whole set.  Big grin



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineQazar From Canada, joined May 2006, 339 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5017 times:

So, does that make Lufthansa the largest airline Group in Europe?

That makes the collection so far:
- SWISS
- Brussels Airlines (45% for now, with the remaining 55% in 2011)
- BMI (How come LH is being so secretive about the info regarding this acquisition)
- Austrian Airlines (100%)

So what's next? Here's a list of potential future candidates just to give a little juice to the thread:
- TAP
- LOT
- Croatia Airlines
- Adria Airways
- JAT
- Air Malta
- Aegean
- Air One
- Spanair
- Blue 1

Cheers!


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8625 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5002 times:
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Quoting Qazar (Reply 2):
Air One

I think that you can rule Air One out since they are tied to C.A.I. now ( unless LH end up being the international partner for C.A.I. , and I think even LH would have trouble either 1)absorbing SN , BD , OS and tackling all C.A.I.s problems or 2) getting it past the competition authorities)



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineOta1 From Germany, joined Apr 2008, 399 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4958 times:
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Quoting Qazar (Reply 2):

So what's next? Here's a list of potential future candidates just to give a little juice to the thread:

SK is missing on your list - LH recently said they still were interested.
As BA seems to be messing up things maybe we can add Iberia to that list again at some point... however I don't see LH buying JAT


BTW congrats to LH and OS!!!


User currently offlineDavidkunzVIE From Austria, joined Mar 2007, 431 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4924 times:



Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 1):
Sorry to see another distinctive airline fade away

It's not as if they would dismantle Austrian!



DH3 DH4 CR1 CR2 CR7 CR9 F70 732 733 734 73G 738 752 762 763 772 742 743 319 320 321 333 343
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4870 times:



Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 1):
Sorry to see another distinctive airline fade away.

You mean like Swiss faded away after being taken over by LH? I should hope so!!!

Quoting DavidkunzVIE (Reply 5):
It's not as if they would dismantle Austrian!

Bingo!

I expect the Austrian brand to stay for quite some time. There are markets where it's very well established and others where that could probably be achieved by simply giving a good strategy forward - Austrian's management has been rather lacking in that regard.



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7966 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4805 times:



Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 1):
Lufthansa should commission a collection of beer steins with the logos of their subsidiaries on them. I'd buy the whole set.

Haha, yes or, worse, they could start reshaping European airtravel according to their own gusto.  grumpy 



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4792 times:



Quoting NoUFO (Reply 7):
Haha, yes or, worse, they could start reshaping European airtravel according to their own gusto

Yeah, and I do not why a lot of guys here find Lufthansa a very good airline. Their shorthaul and longhaul services are really behind all other airlines.

OS has a far better product than LH but that will be a history soon. Look at LX, shorthaul in Europe is nothing special while longhaul is average.



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4790 times:



Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 1):
Sorry to see another distinctive airline fade away.

I see no reason to believe that they'll dismantle the brand.

Quoting Qazar (Reply 2):
That makes the collection so far:

Don't forget 19% of jetBlue.

NS


User currently offlineEBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4760 times:



Quoting Qazar (Reply 2):
Austrian Airlines (100%)

I must have missed something here because it appears they're getting just under 42%, or do they already hold the other 58%?



Dare to dream; dream big!
User currently offlineOta1 From Germany, joined Apr 2008, 399 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4762 times:
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Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 10):
I must have missed something here because it appears they're getting just under 42%, or do they already hold the other 58%?

In fact they are aiming to get at least 75%


User currently offlineDavidkunzVIE From Austria, joined Mar 2007, 431 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4717 times:

The deal signed today only included the Republic of Austria's shares, if I got that right.


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User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7966 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4676 times:



Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 8):
Yeah, and I do not why a lot of guys here find Lufthansa a very good airline. Their shorthaul and longhaul services are really behind all other airlines.

To be fair, they are not behind *all* other airlines (ground service is often better), but LH really excels when something goes wrong - a delay, a diversion ... whatever.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5600 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4586 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 9):
I see no reason to believe that they'll dismantle the brand.

OK, I agree with all of you that the brand may survive for some time, but will it be anything distinctive or just an alternative paint job? Not that there's anything wrong with Lufthansa ....

Does the buy include Tyrolean?

[Edited 2008-12-05 22:46:54]


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8625 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4560 times:
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Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 14):
Does the buy include Tyrolean?

Tyrolean has long since disappeared - I believe that they are now branded as "Austrian Arrow" but in any event , if LH purchase OS surely that includes wholly owned subsidiaries



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineWAC From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4557 times:



Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 14):
Does the buy include Tyrolean?

yea and Lauda Air (austria).
I think LH will like with Swiss invest heavily in keeping up the Austrian image...


User currently offlineTW741 From Liechtenstein, joined Sep 2004, 478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4543 times:



Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 14):
Does the buy include Tyrolean?

it includes anything related to the OS group:
- OS / NG / VO
- OS Technics
- any other company owned or partially owned by the OS group

but as already stated - the sale includes only the state owned stake of a little under 42%. So they are the largest shareholder but not the majority shareholder for the moment.

First offer to minority shareholders (holding roughly 50%) is for EUR 4.44/share which is the average trade price over the past 6 month.

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 1):
Sorry to see another distinctive airline fade away.

Wolfgang Mayrhuber said
- OS will be operating under the own brand with its own distinctive service
- network will remain the same, adaptions will be made but not "as distributed in the media" resized drastically and longhaul operations will be kept

furthermore he said: "it will not be easy, we know that".
Mayrhuber does not foresee big problems in respect of EU laws.

Quoting Qazar (Reply 2):
So, does that make Lufthansa the largest airline Group in Europe?

That makes the collection so far:
- SWISS
- Brussels Airlines (45% for now, with the remaining 55% in 2011)
- BMI (How come LH is being so secretive about the info regarding this acquisition)
- Austrian Airlines (100%)

Afaik Lufthansa group is/will be the following airlines:
- Lufthansa
- Lufthansa Regional/City Line
- Lufthansa Italia (to be set up January 2009 as company with own AOC)
- Air Dolomiti 100%
- Austrian 41,6% with the goal to have 75% of shares (pending approvals)
- BMI 30% (further 50% to be aquired Jan 09)
- Brussels Airlines (LH announced it would aquire 45% with an option to aquire the remaining 55% in 2011)
- Condor 24,9%
- Eurowings 49% with additional 51% to be aquired Jan 09
- Luxair 13%
- JetBlue 19%
- SunExpress 50%
- Swiss 49% plus 51% via a "Swiss construction Almea"

In addition LH group is
- LH Cargo
- LSG SkyChefs
- Delvag (Insurance)
a.s.o.



TWA - we showed you how good we have been!
User currently offlineBoeingdotcom From Singapore, joined Nov 2008, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4503 times:

Will the austrian 767 and 777 be dumped? Lufthansa doesn't operate this two aircraft.


Never forget to be yourself.
User currently offlineTW741 From Liechtenstein, joined Sep 2004, 478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4449 times:



Quoting Boeingdotcom (Reply 18):
Will the austrian 767 and 777 be dumped? Lufthansa doesn't operate this two aircraft.

pretty sure not in the very next future. I don't see any major change in the OS fleet for the next 6 months as this period will be needed to sort out the legal side of the purchase plus a further 6 months until the actual start of restructering of OS takes place.
Since OS is intended to operate as OS even whith LH being the planned majority owner we will see for some time the fleetmix of Dashs, F70ies, F100s, CRJs, 737s, A320s, 767s and 777s.
To my mind the CRJs will be the first to be retired and more Q400s coming in instead. Next to be replaced/retired would be the F70s and F100s

My bet is that the only aircraft remaining longer in the fleet are the C152's  Big grin

but they could paint the belly of the C152s also in baby-blue  duck 



TWA - we showed you how good we have been!
User currently offlineOta1 From Germany, joined Apr 2008, 399 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4449 times:
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Quoting TW741 (Reply 17):
Afaik Lufthansa group is/will be the following airlines:
- Lufthansa
- Lufthansa Regional/City Line
- Lufthansa Italia (to be set up January 2009 as company with own AOC)
- Air Dolomiti 100%
- Austrian 41,6% with the goal to have 75% of shares (pending approvals)
- BMI 30% (further 50% to be aquired Jan 09)
- Brussels Airlines (LH announced it would aquire 45% with an option to aquire the remaining 55% in 2011)
- Condor 24,9%
- Eurowings 49% with additional 51% to be aquired Jan 09
- Luxair 13%
- JetBlue 19%
- SunExpress 50%
- Swiss 49% plus 51% via a "Swiss construction Almea"

Through OS LH will also have a 22,5% stake in PS...


User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5569 posts, RR: 36
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4418 times:



Quoting TW741 (Reply 17):
Swiss 49% plus 51% via a "Swiss construction Almea"

As I know is "Almea" gone and LH owns directly 100% of the SWISS shares. This happened mid 2007 and the Almea trust was deleted in the commercial register by December 14th 2007. SWISS is a direct and 100 % subsidiary which is consolidated in the accounting of LH.


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4390 times:



Quoting Boeingdotcom (Reply 18):
Will the austrian 767 and 777 be dumped? Lufthansa doesn't operate this two aircraft.

LH is pretty pragmatic with things like that - the fact that they don't operate those two types is probably less important than the question whether the two types fit Austrian's route profile better than an A330/A340 combination would, or if changing to A330s/A340s would offer benefits outweighing any advantages the B767/B777 combination has (depending on whether they do offer any, and what those benefits are).

In the end, Condor was able to build up a fleet of B757s and B767s while 50% under LH's control - both types that LH doesn't operate, but both types that served DE's routes better than the alternatives.

I do, however, think that one of LH's first priorities will be getting some structure in OS's fleet - it does seem a bit erratic, and at least at the low end (Dash 8, CRJ, F70) and in the mid part (F100, B737, A32S) seem a bit more overlapping than necessary.

Quoting TW741 (Reply 19):
I don't see any major change in the OS fleet for the next 6 months as this period will be needed to sort out the legal side of the purchase plus a further 6 months until the actual start of restructering of OS takes place.

I don't think it'll take quite that long, somehow I seem to remember that the first changes happened at LX fairly quickly - as in within the first month or so. Letting everything continue "as is" for another half year doesn't really seem like something LH would do in my view, considering the losses that OS is suffering right now.

While LH, fortunately, doesn't usually work on short-term plans and look at the long-term solution instead, I'm not sure that OS's situation doesn't also require some short-term action as well.

Having said that, I hope that as much as possible of what makes Austrian Airlines what it is will survive: it is my national carrier (despite the fact that I live in Germany), and whenever I fly to Vienna, OS is my first choice. The fact that LH is now going to be their parent offers some comfort to me, because I see this fact as an improvement of OS's situation: far more stability, far more experience and expertise, probably very soon a management who's first priority will not be making politicians happy but seeing the airline prosper.

LH offers OS the stability it needs - see the example of LX, which LH turned into one of Europe's best performing carriers (I think I read that LX's performance is even above LH's own), away from the near-death case it was turning into just a few years ago.

In my view, this is OS's best chance to fly on for years to come.



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineAdicool From Netherlands, joined Apr 2007, 302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4341 times:



Quoting Ota1 (Reply 20):
Through OS LH will also have a 22,5% stake in PS...

any juicy rumours yet about those shares and what LH could be doing with them? I think this is a quite interesting fact no one seems to mention.


User currently offlineDavidkunzVIE From Austria, joined Mar 2007, 431 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4273 times:



Quoting Leskova (Reply 22):
a management who's first priority will not be making politicians happy but seeing the airline prosper

Absolutely. I am very relieved that Faymann/Dichand will have to shut up now.  Wink



DH3 DH4 CR1 CR2 CR7 CR9 F70 732 733 734 73G 738 752 762 763 772 742 743 319 320 321 333 343
25 Babybus : Well done to LH! I think LH really was the only airline in Europe that could take on and handle the problems of OS. It was an airline going nowhere ve
26 Kiwiandrew : BA also should have made a move on LX with their uncongested hub in a great geographical position when they had the chance... but no , BA had to 'sho
27 JoFMO : I can't believe the incompetence of BA's management. The fvcked it up with KLM, with LX, with SN, and they are now trying hard to do the same with IB
28 ZRH : This is unfortunately not true at all. In the peak times ZRH is very congested and has slot problems.
29 Kiwiandrew : by European major airport standards ( and particularly compared to LHR ) ZRH is still relatively uncongested and a pleasure to transit through
30 ZRH : Ok, I absolutely agree. Specially regarding passenger facilities it is very convenient and uncongested. The "only" problems they have are the runway
31 Kiwiandrew : I cant believe that I managed to leave my ( current ) local carrier out of my list of BA's missed opportunties - but you got my point anyway
32 TFFIP : ...hmmm....waiting with baited breath... for a major overhaul and the start of something great at LHR. can you expand on that? i dont know very that
33 AustrianZRH : The problem is that OS was managed by people who knew next to nothing about their business. Many board members were put there for having a membership
34 TFFIP : So Lufthansa are collecting airlines with special and varied kinds of management problems.
35 JoFMO : LX and SN had no management problems. And I also doin't think the management is the biggest problem of OS. They have their fair share of the problmes
36 DavidkunzVIE : Exactly - but a mature and independent management would never allow the state (and its populists) to interfere with their own business.
37 Columba : I think the focus of LH will be more on the regional fleet. As LH and OS will operate similar routes within Europe I guess some of these routes will
38 Musapapaya : How are they behind? Their on time performance is better than BA and AF and baggage reliability is higher. You are absolutely right.
39 CRJ900 : Any chance of CRJ900 and/or CRJ1000 replacing the F70/F100? Tyrolean Airways did place a Memorandum of Understanding with Bombardier for 8 or 12 x CR
40 Abrelosojos : = Jaja. OS management is in complete denial about how bad things are at OS. I am looking forward to seeing how this unfolds. My prediction (and y'all
41 AIR MALTA : I have travelled several times on LH, AF, OS and BA on both longhaul and shorthaul and I have to say that the on board service is far better on other
42 Columba : I am not sure as LH also did not really want the CRJ900 in the first place as they considered it too much of a stretch and they feared the turn aroun
43 TFFIP : ..There is another thread on this subject too. It seems though you won't find a bmi crew member who doesn't see the new ownership as a sign of hope o
44 Ota1 : You know we all judge from our (some people even from second party) experiences. My personal experiences with LH is way better than those I have made
45 JoFMO : Now the German press is reporting that AFKLM has formally abjected to the sale at the EU. That might piss off LH pretty much and raise some bad sentim
46 PEET7G : You are correct with day-to-day service, but that is their goal. You get a standard and perfect service that might miss the show and glow of airlines
47 WAC : Well legally AF was not given the same opportunity in their bid.... Austrian Government did not say that the bid could allow the government to take s
48 TW741 : Not correct this way - LH requested in their offer that OeIAG/the state has to take over a part of the debt. AF could have requested the same in an o
49 Post contains links WAC : well AF didn t know that there was a possibility of Austrian government and they claim that s why they didn t bid....LH obviously knew it was a possi
50 AustrianZRH : I don't think it was that way. The 500M debt release was a condition of LH in their binding offer, as far as I am informed (of course, that's from th
51 Ota1 : Well, but AF dropped out of the race before the had to offer their concept, not before having to offer a price(which was 5 days later)...and, AF coul
52 AIR MALTA : This is really strange! I have flown both OS and LH several times and OS was the friendlier one. LH cabin crew are mechanical. The food is nothing sp
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