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Japan's New Ibaraki Airport Won't Have ANA, JAL  
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8938 posts, RR: 40
Posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9046 times:



Quote:
Dec. 4 (Bloomberg) -- Japan’s $268 million Ibaraki Airport is on schedule to open for business in March 2010. The hard part will be persuading an airline to fly there.

The government and Ibaraki prefecture, home to 3 million people, are paying for the airport north of Tokyo, which won’t have train services and is a half-hour drive from Ibaraki’s capital, Mito. Japan Airlines Corp. and All Nippon Airways Co., which operate 90 percent of flights in the country, don’t plan to use it.

As the global credit crunch drives Japan into its first recession since 2001, the country is building roads and airports that have helped make it the world’s most indebted major economy. Critics say many of the projects have little economic value beyond the building industry.

. . .

“We’re not planning any flights from Ibaraki Airport,” Japan Air President Haruka Nishimatsu said on Dec. 2. “It’s out of the question.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...601109&sid=aYomskNBwinE&refer=home


Without JAL and ANA? Yikes. Sounds like a terrible miscalculation.


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2871 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9004 times:

Yikes. So, if you don't get the 2 main carriers for that country to buy into it, who does that leave? Not knowing the airlines of Japan too well, does Japan have LCC's or even reginal divisions of the main carriers that could be interested? I am very curious what research was done to determine the need for a new airport and moving forward with building it without interest from the main drive once it opens...an airline flying out of there!

~H81



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineBHMNONREV From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1368 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9004 times:



Quoting PPVRA (Thread starter):
Yikes. Sounds like a terrible miscalculation.

Should have asked us, we would have told ya so...

Signed,
MidAmerica Airport (BLV)


User currently offlineTeme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1480 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9003 times:
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Quoting PPVRA (Thread starter):
Without JAL and ANA? Yikes. Sounds like a terrible miscalculation.

Why it sounds like that?? It's too close to HND and NRT ...



Flying high and low
User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4670 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8962 times:



Quoting PPVRA (Thread starter):
Japan's New Ibaraki Airport Won't Have ANA, JAL

sounds like someone is f*cked. Basically all regional aircraft are part of these 2 airlines. The smallest thing out there that doesn't belong to them is a 733 (I guess) of Skymark, and I doubt they will waste resources on this.



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22706 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8928 times:



Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 2):
Should have asked us, we would have told ya so...
Signed,
MidAmerica Airport (BLV)

Interesting comparison. Still, had TW survived (or AA kept the hub) and the fourth runway not been built, I don't think we would have seen AA or WN at BLV. It was (and is) the smaller carriers who are interested in secondary and tertiary airports, at least at the beginning. If Japan doesn't have strong smaller carriers, then it seems like there's no point in building a secondary airport.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2940 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8754 times:

The new civil airport is going to be shared with the current military facility. It's in middle of f*ing nowhere, is not an understatement and that's hard to do in crowded Japan.
JL or NH will eventually send maybe a prop or RJ run by their subsidiaries or partners, but don't count on large numbers of aircraft.
Once again the government at it mispending taxpayer money.

Quoting PPVRA (Thread starter):
The government and Ibaraki prefecture, home to 3 million people

What fraction of that population lives within one hour of travel time to the airport. I'd approximate at about 10%, if that.


User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8638 times:

Long live Japanese Government!!!!!

1) Don't consult with locals
2) Don't listen to anyone but other politicians and bureaucrats. Even if 99% of the people are against it, do it because "you are working for the people". (Big BS)
3) Ignore what the market says.
4) If you have money in a budget, you MUST use it even if you don't have to.
5) look inward as long as possible and ignore Global trends.
6) pocket money whenever possible because you can abuse the system and no Japanese national is going to check.
7) Policy? What the hell is that?
]8) Responsibility? What the hell is that?

Gifu Prefecture is 4 million people but we don't guild a big ass airport to compete with Kansai or Chubu. That would be suicide.

Japan needs a revolution. They need to throw every politician in front of the Shinkansen and start over.

The money used for this airport could have been used to develop existing airports or maybe diverted to shore up the Social Security system or help reinforce schools that don't meet earthquake standards.

The school I work at needs massive interior and exterior work. Our main meeting hall, used for graduation and morning school meetings, was built after WWII. We were going to replace it with a new facility but the city said, "Sorry no money". The building was going to cost just around $100,000. If there was to be a large earthquake in our town and kids were in that building, they would die. Japanese teachers need retraining to stay competitive in the global economy. But NO build an airport that no one will use

The only good thing about Ibaraki airport is that in an emergency, it can handle diversions. But even then, there would be no way for people to get places.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently onlineEightball From Saudi Arabia, joined Oct 2007, 280 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8560 times:

The Japanese government could have put some of the money that is being used to build Ibaraki airport into extending the runways at HND in order to make it easier for wide-body aircraft to do long haul operations out of the airport, and then they could have put the rest of the money into other important things in Japan like schools, hospitals, etc. I think that the decision to build this airport was made without any proper research into whether or not airlines and people would want to use it.


Follow your dream.
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8546 times:

Well, if the Japanese politicians have money burning a hole in their pocket, why not build a rail connection to the airport - then maybe someone would fly there?

As for building in the middle of nowhere - Japan doesn't have eminent domain, getting the land to build an airport is a challenge. There is a reason they kept manufacturing islands in the sea to build new ones.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 7):

Japan needs a revolution. They need to throw every politician in front of the Shinkansen and start over.

Yeah, about the Shinkansen - in the era of proliferated, affordable, fast, and convenient bullet train service, what is the point of building new domestic airports?

It seems Japan has issues building airports without fiasco. Tokyo Narita took twenty years, drew the ire of thousands to millions of people, could not be built to the original size or capacity in the design because they couldn't secure sufficient land - and then both Nagoya Centrair and Osaka Kansai cost billions to build and have nowhere near the kinds of traffic which were anticipated for them.

Somewhat strange.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2940 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8220 times:



Quoting Centrair (Reply 7):

Nicely vented.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 9):
Well, if the Japanese politicians have money burning a hole in their pocket, why not build a rail connection to the airport - then maybe someone would fly there?

Because the federal government builds the airport. Local roads and infastructure is put to the local government. The local government doesn't have much money and wasn't about spend any money on this. However, since the airport/terminal is going to be built, they had to at least upgrade some of the tiny farm roads in the area. So they are stuck doing the PR for the airport but again many airlines are not biting.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21472 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8093 times:



Quoting Centrair (Reply 7):
Gifu Prefecture is 4 million people but we don't guild a big ass airport to compete with Kansai or Chubu. That would be suicide.

I've been to Gifu city. Nice little city. And you are right, the region could not support a major airport. This Ibaraki plan is crazy.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineNRT744 From Japan, joined Feb 2005, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7967 times:



Quoting Centrair (Reply 7):
They need to throw every politician in front of the Shinkansen and start over.

I like that statement.
But since it's an aviation thread, they should lie blindfolded in the middle of any unprofitable runway such as Kobe, Noto, Kitakyushu, Shizuoka (under construction and will become one), Akita, Nakashibetsu, Nanki-Shirahama, Wakkanai, Okayama, Matsumoto ... well, they have plenty to choose.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 7):
The only good thing about Ibaraki airport is that in an emergency, it can handle diversions.

Do you mean HND/NRT diversions? That would be possible only if the runway is long enough for widebodies. How long is the runway anyway?

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 6):
It's in middle of f*ing nowhere

Yep. The only airport that isn't is FUK.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 9):
Tokyo Narita took twenty years, drew the ire of thousands to millions of people, could not be built to the original size or capacity in the design because they couldn't secure sufficient land

To be fair, NRT is still under construction. So the year 2008 makes it the big 30.
I was only 6 back in 1978, but I'll NEVER forget NRT back then.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 9):
and then both Nagoya Centrair and Osaka Kansai cost billions to build and have nowhere near the kinds of traffic which were anticipated for them.

How did this country become the 2nd most powerful in economics? There must be some kind of formula we never learn ... or should I say, "we shouldn't learn".

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 9):
It seems Japan has issues building airports without fiasco.

Hey!! It's not just the airports.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 9):
Somewhat strange.

Welcome to Japan.


User currently offlineNorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7833 times:
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Quoting Centrair (Reply 7):
4) If you have money in a budget, you MUST use it even if you don't have to.

Absolulutely, because next year's budgetary allocation is based on what you spent this year. So, if you're allocated 60 million this year, but you only spend 52 million, then next year, you're only allocated 52 million, so, if you want to keep that extra 8 million in the budget for next year, you have to find something to spend it on, other than a mansion in beverly hills for yourself. Airports in general are nice pork projects that money can be sent on that in turn make a politician look good in his district, not to mention setting the benchmark for the following year's budget. it may seem absurd, but that's the way the government works, spoken as the son of a 35 year veteran government manager.



Why are people so against low yields?! If lower yields means more people can travel abroad, i'm all for it
User currently offlineTeme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1480 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7801 times:
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And when they have the airport up and running they will start make roads and Shinkansen tracks to it.  Smile


Flying high and low
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2940 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7721 times:

As far as I know, the only foreign carrier thinking about serving this airport is Air Asia. At least some airlines have interest in Shizuoka Airport, including Asiana.

Quoting NRT744 (Reply 12):
That would be possible only if the runway is long enough for widebodies. How long is the runway anyway?

There will be two 2700m runways when completed. There is already one with the based JASDF F-15s.

Quoting NRT744 (Reply 12):
But since it's an aviation thread, they should lie blindfolded in the middle of any unprofitable runway such as Kobe, Noto, Kitakyushu, Shizuoka (under construction and will become one), Akita, Nakashibetsu, Nanki-Shirahama, Wakkanai, Okayama, Matsumoto ... well, they have plenty to choose.

You are getting way out of hand. The first four you mention are legit but most of rest have been around for decades. Granted there's no need for a 3000m runway at Okayama, but many regional airports, built before the 1990s do serve their purpose because either they are far outposts such as Wakkanai where flying makes the most economic and timely sense.


User currently offlineNRT744 From Japan, joined Feb 2005, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7620 times:



Quoting Carpethead (Reply 15):
At least some airlines have interest in Shizuoka Airport, including Asiana.

With the economic crisis and the construction mess Shizuoka is in right now, "OZ's interest" doesn't sound so assuring anymore.

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 15):
but many regional airports, built before the 1990s do serve their purpose because either they are far outposts such as Wakkanai where flying makes the most economic and timely sense.

The fact is, most airports have to spend millions of local tax every year to "keep" its purpose. It's just not fair when the majority disagreed.
I personally don't want to see another airport like Noto in this country.

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 15):
There will be two 2700m runways when completed.

What?? Another 2700??
My parents are going to hate spending taxes on this. I guess they'll have to advertise "natto" when it opens. ..sigh


User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1792 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6439 times:



Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 9):
in the era of proliferated, affordable, fast, and convenient bullet train service, what is the point of building new domestic airports?

Oh yeah, exactly I mean JR Tokai just announced the building of the new linear motor car project between Nagoya and Tokyo Shinagawa in 40 minutes didn't they? Which takes out the whole purpose for a lot of airports such as ITM or UKB because they serve HND the most. Who wants to take the plane for 55 minutes and ride the train to Shinagawa when in the future, they are going to extend the motor car to Osaka station as well?

Honestly, when I was living back in Canada, this country seemed like transportation heaven. But the more you look into living here, its transportation hell because every single method is trying to kill each other.

In the future, perhaps local munincipalities should completely subsidize flights so some plane perhaps can operate ITM-KIX, or UKB-KIX. I really don't see the purpose of Shizuoka airport at all. Well if they want, they can operate Shizuoka - NRT, KIX, or NGO to try to feed local people to countries abroad. A 2200 metre runway can't operate medium-longhaul int'l flights especially in the summer when its humid.

Japanese politicians need to retake physics while studying finance all over again.... Well in fact, they should go through the entire education system from kindergarten again. Then maybe they'll understand something.



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineHotelbravo From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5843 times:

Maybe this will prompt a Knock-Tokyo by Ryanair?  Yeah sure

User currently offlineEXTspotter From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5684 times:

Knock, pah. It isn't even an FR base, and EVERYWHERE is an FR base. I would say that Hahn or Stansted first, Knock later!

If the runway really is 2700m, then when FR make their longhaul business, a service from "near" London, or "near" Frankfurt to Japan - even if it is in the middle of nowhere - would be a moneyspinner.



AF BE BY FR MV PD SZ U2 VZ DHC6, 8-3/4Q, 732/8, 763ER, A319, A380
User currently offline413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5676 times:

With the Japanese economy arguably still in a recession since the 90s, you'd think more people would be angry enough at the lack of proper planning and management by all politicians there.

User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6759 posts, RR: 76
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5429 times:

I started laughing when this page opened up:
http://www.pref.ibaraki.jp/bukyoku/kuko/english/index.html

then I looked at the other English pages... and was almost tempted to think that "hey, maybe it's a good idea"... until I saw the "Low Cost Airport" page... with "Self Propelled Off Block" (ie: self maneuvering stands)... and went back to the original page and saw... "1 berth for 767/A300 sized aircraft" and "3 berths for 737/A320 sized aircraft"...

Then I started to laugh again...

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineEXTspotter From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5279 times:

OMG, it looks like they have been using Google Translator, especially their advertising bar: The Northernn Gateway to the Tokyo Metoropolitan Area

Though in the Tokyo metropolitan area, 30% cheaper landing fees than Hanedaand Narita.

For this one, its not the spacing problem that bothers me, it is the lack of sense of the entire sentance. They might as well have put "Lets Airport" and be done with it...



AF BE BY FR MV PD SZ U2 VZ DHC6, 8-3/4Q, 732/8, 763ER, A319, A380
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21472 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5013 times:

It's a haiku man, lighten up.

Spring welcomes much rain
Narita closes often
Try Ibaraki!

Quoting EXTspotter (Reply 22):
They might as well have put "Lets Airport" and be done with it...

Sponsored by Pokari Sweat!



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4619 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 23):
Spring welcomes much rain
Narita closes often
Try Ibaraki!

I think that was wonderful.

Inspiration!!!!!



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
25 Carpethead : I agree with you that I don't want to see an airport like Kobe, Noto, or Shizuoka ever built. However, shall we close all airports like Wakkanai that
26 NRT744 : Indeed, some remote airports are valued. But what really bugs me is that a lot of politicians aren't concerned whether the airport is going to make p
27 Huaiwei : Now if Tokyo is London and they decide to build a major airport in the middle on nowhere to replace the congested and physically restricted airports
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