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A330/A340 #1000  
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6870 posts, RR: 63
Posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8085 times:

Some time in the first half of next year Airbus will deliver the 1,000th plane off the joint A330/A340 line.

(Let's not have any tedious complaints that the two planes are "different". They are numbered sequentially so for the purposes of this thread they are one production run.)

What will it be?

Airbus have a frustrating habit of not building certain msns. To date, 18 numbers have not been built: 92, 105, 108, 124, 130, 298, 589, 592, 594, 596, 599, 613, 808, 816, 864, 872, 878, 880.

If there are no more gaps, the 1,018th plane is scheduled to be an A330-300 for Swiss. That would therefore be the 1,000th A330/A340.

But I bet it won't be the 1,000th either flown or delivered!

Msn 1017 is an A340-600 (for Iberia) and they tend to run several months behind the A330s. In other words, msn 1018 for LX is likely to fly and be delivered before msn 1017 for IB.

Then there is msn 992 - an A330-200 destined for XL. Two other XL A330s have gone to Mexicana but I'm not aware that a new home has been found for the third one. It's on order for ILFC so they could place it elsewhere. Or they could defer it and msn 992 might become another 'not built'.

Then there's msn 996 which is earmarked as a KC-45 for the USAF. (Oops!) (Msn 980 was also destined for the USAF but now seems to be going to the RSaudiAF.)

Then there's msn 1004 which is scheduled to be the first A330F. It would hardly be surprising if that plane first flew out of sequence - i.e. later.

Moreover, the cancellations/deferrals we keep being told to expect may have a further impact on deliveries next year.

There seems little doubt that #1,000 will be up and flying in 2009. But it is still far for certain to whom that honour will go.

(A few years from now we can speculate all over again regarding who'll get the 1,000th A330. They've sold that many but fewer than 600 have so far been built. When will we see A330 #1,000? In around 2013?)

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6870 posts, RR: 63
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7909 times:

Good question. I'm glad someone brought it up.

To date, 39% of planes off the line have been A340s and 61% have been A330s. In other words, for every three A330s built there have been two A340s. That may surprise some here but in the early years the A340 was by far the better seller.

However, there are likely to be only another seven A340s between now and "#1,000" compared to forty or more A330s.

By the time the landmark is reached the total should be around 37% A340s and 63% A330s.

Anyway, odds are that the 1,000th plane will be an A330 and not an A340.


User currently offlineIvo From Belgium, joined Sep 2000, 470 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7807 times:

According to http://www.airlinerlist.com the 1000th A330/A340 will be c/n1018 an
A330-343E Reg HB-JHB for Swiss.


Ivo


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12400 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7807 times:
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While it was obviously not delivered, EY's pranged A340-600 did leave the production line, so the 1,000th delivery will certainly not be the 1,000th built!


Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4705 posts, RR: 38
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7802 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting PM (Reply 1):
Anyway, odds are that the 1,000th plane will be an A330 and not an A340.

That is most likely. Who would have thought that this program would actually sell a lot more then 1,000 copies? A great achievement as also Boeing has achieved great achievements with the B767 and B777! It shows that both companies had the correct vision regarding their product line-up. Although the sales success might have even taken them by surprise.

BTW: was a reply in this thread deleted or did you respond to your own opening post? Big grin


User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1915 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7716 times:



Quoting PM (Reply 1):
To date, 39% of planes off the line have been A340s and 61% have been A330s. In other words, for every three A330s built there have been two A340s. That may surprise some here but in the early years the A340 was by far the better seller.

However, there are likely to be only another seven A340s between now and "#1,000" compared to forty or more A330s.

By the time the landmark is reached the total should be around 37% A340s and 63% A330s.

Very good round-up, PM.
While you are at it, you could mentioned that most of the un-built frames are A340s: 80% A340s against 20% A330s.
This does not take into account the 4 latest cancelled frames which I have not seen allocated either way (but likely to be A345 or 6).


User currently offlineDALCA From Netherlands, joined Aug 2006, 518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7543 times:

Will cn #1000 be specially marked for this occasion? Might add a bit more colour to the LX aircraft for a change.  Silly


Zanair flight, please hold on finals as we have to clear rhino's off the runway. Next flight: AMS-FRA-AMS
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7493 times:

Certainly an achievement for Airbus. The family has an interesting history. Originally the A343 was supposed to be a DC-10 and L-1011 replacement, the A333 its brother for shorter distances, where an A306 was too small. The longer-range A342 was not much of a success. The best step was probably to shorten the A333 to the A332, a size that a lot of carriers seem to appreciate, especially since the plane has a lot of range, too. The A346 was supposed to replace older 747s, it did that well for LH, VS, IB, and TG. The A345 was its shortened version for the ULH sector.

Quoting PM (Reply 1):
By the time the landmark is reached the total should be around 37% A340s and 63% A330s.

Looking at the backlog, one can expect final numbers to be even more in favor of the A330. My guess for the end of the production would be roughly 1400-1600 A330s (including freighters and tankers) and 400 A340s.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 3):
While it was obviously not delivered, EY's pranged A340-600 did leave the production line, so the 1,000th delivery will certainly not be the 1,000th built!

Maybe some of IT's A345 still stand around at TLS at the time of the 1,000th delivery, too, or planes for another carrier that is not able to pick them up at the supposed delivery time. That might distort numbers even further.


User currently offlineIvo From Belgium, joined Sep 2000, 470 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7338 times:

Airlinerlist.com shows an A340-542 c/n 1091 for Air Ukraine ?
I did't now about this order.

Some more info please??


Ivo


User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2185 posts, RR: 36
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7310 times:



Quoting PM (Reply 1):
Good question. I'm glad someone brought it up.

Are you congratulating yourself for bringing up this thread??!!

In any case it will be funny to see how Airbus spins this...


User currently offlineFrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1573 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7262 times:



Quoting PM (Thread starter):
To date, 18 numbers have not been built: 92, 105, 108, 124, 130, 298, 589, 592, 594, 596, 599, 613, 808, 816, 864, 872, 878, 880.

Does anyone know what the reason was for not building these? It could be that they were cancelled after an msn number was allocated, but that's just an uneducated guess from my part...

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 3):
While it was obviously not delivered, EY's pranged A340-600 did leave the production line, so the 1,000th delivery will certainly not be the 1,000th built!

The 1000th one built, that will be the real landmark IMO. Hope Airbus plans some kind of special ceremony around it... I remember Boeing has a tradition doing so in the past, but I can't remember Airbus celebrating such an occasion??



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7214 times:



Quoting Ivo (Reply 8):
Airlinerlist.com shows an A340-542 c/n 1091 for Air Ukraine ?
I did't now about this order.

Some more info please??

Thanks for telling us about it, very interesting, indeed. They currently have 17 737s, including 733, 734, and 735. I see them sometimes at TXL. An A345 would be pretty strange, but it would allow them some serious long-haul, probably to New York. A332 might actually be better.

Their current fleet info:

http://flyuia.de/eng/company/ukraine-international-airlines/fleet.html

Their current route-map:

http://www.flyuia.com/eng/informatio...rvices/destinations/route-map.html


User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1915 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7144 times:



Quoting Frigatebird (Reply 10):
Quoting PM (Thread starter):
To date, 18 numbers have not been built: 92, 105, 108, 124, 130, 298, 589, 592, 594, 596, 599, 613, 808, 816, 864, 872, 878, 880.

Does anyone know what the reason was for not building these? It could be that they were cancelled after an msn number was allocated, but that's just an uneducated guess from my part...

That's educated enough.
MSNs are allocated to types and contracts.
When a contract falls off and that it is too late to re-allocate type or customer, the MSN is cancelled.
Parts intended for the cancelled MSNs are then re-assigned to later MSNs of same type.


User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2696 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7045 times:



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 3):
While it was obviously not delivered, EY's pranged A340-600 did leave the production line, so the 1,000th delivery will certainly not be the 1,000th built!

The same applies to MSN 042, the A330-300 which was planned to be delivered to Thai Airways but crashed during test flight.


User currently offlinePlaneInsomniac From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 6066 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 1):
That may surprise some here but in the early years the A340 was by far the better seller.

People should also not forget the environment in which the A340 was designed. At that time (first studies 1981, launch 1987), ETOPS was limited to 60 minutes first and then 90 minutes - too short for many routes. (The FAA then extended ETOPS to 180 minutes in 1988.)

[Edited 2008-12-07 13:28:53]


Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6870 posts, RR: 63
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5273 times:



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 3):
While it was obviously not delivered, EY's pranged A340-600 did leave the production line

It even flew!

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 4):
BTW: was a reply in this thread deleted or did you respond to your own opening post? Big grin

What kind of a loser would do that?  Big grin

Quoting Thorben (Reply 7):
Looking at the backlog, one can expect final numbers to be even more in favor of the A330.

Hugely so!

Quoting Thorben (Reply 7):
400 A340s

Fingers crossed, but I doubt it. They'd need to sell another twenty or so. I guess we'll see a few more VIP A345s or A346s (and A343s?) but it's hard to see any more airline sales. Indeed, if VS cancel their deferred A346s they'd need to sell more than twenty.  Sad

Quoting Runway23 (Reply 9):
Are you congratulating yourself for bringing up this thread??!!

Yes!  yes   wink 


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4437 times:



Quoting Thorben (Reply 7):
Looking at the backlog, one can expect final numbers to be even more in favor of the A330. My guess for the end of the production would be roughly 1400-1600 A330s (including freighters and tankers) and 400 A340s.

While it is possible the A-340 production ends at, or around 400 airframes built and delivered, I don't see how the A-330 can get to 1400-1600 airframes built and delivered. The A-330 has to much compitition now, and the new A-350 will add another compititor to that list (which includes the B-767 and B-777). The best future in sales for the A-330 will be in the form of the A-330F, and even that competes directly with the B-767F and B-777F, then the new A-350-900F should be coming along about 2016, or a little later. Fopr new build tankers, I don't see a lot of new builds, maybe 25-50 more new build tankers, with the largest tanker orders coming from France, UK, and NATO, with smaller orders from Turkey, Singapore, and maybe a few other countries

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 13):
Quoting Scbriml (Reply 3):
While it was obviously not delivered, EY's pranged A340-600 did leave the production line, so the 1,000th delivery will certainly not be the 1,000th built!

The same applies to MSN 042, the A330-300 which was planned to be delivered to Thai Airways but crashed during test flight.

So, would MSN 1020 actually be the 1,000th?


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6870 posts, RR: 63
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4402 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 16):
I don't see how the A-330 can get to 1400-1600

Granted, that's ambitious but they are two thirds of the way there.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 16):
The A-330 has to much compitition now

The A330 has never sold as well as it has over the past three years - just when it had most "competition". Half of all A330 sales have been in 2006-2008. And, in terms of delivery times, how "competitive" is the 787 right now? Most customers could have a fleet of A330s in service before they get a single 787.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 16):
the new A-350 will add another compititor to that list (which includes the B-767 and B-777)

The A350 will complement rather than compete with the A330. And the A330 doesn't compete with the only two 777 pax variants which are selling. As for the 767, that ceased to be a credible competitor (except for top-up orders) some time ago.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 16):
The best future in sales for the A-330 will be in the form of the A-330F, and even that competes directly with the B-767F and B-777F

In fact it competes "directly" with neither and will easily find its own niche. (It has already.)

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 16):
then the new A-350-900F should be coming along about 2016

Which will compete with the 777F, not the A330F.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 16):
Fopr new build tankers, I don't see a lot of new builds, maybe 25-50 more new build tankers, with the largest tanker orders coming from France, UK, and NATO, with smaller orders from Turkey, Singapore, and maybe a few other countries

Haven't you forgotten the USA?!  duck 

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 16):
So, would MSN 1020 actually be the 1,000th?

No, no, the two planes which never left Toulouse were built and flown. They 'count'.


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6870 posts, RR: 63
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4264 times:

If anyone is curious, nine planes off this production line have so far been written off. (Two had PW, three had CFM and four had RR. None had GE.)

msn 10 A340-200 (1994) CFM
msn 36 A340-300 (2001) CFM
msn 42 A330-300 (1994) PW
msn 68 A330-300 (2000) PW
msn 289 A340-300 (2005) CFM
msn 336 A330-200 (2001) RR
msn 341 A330-200 (2001) RR
msn 731 A340-600 (2007) RR
msn 856 A340-600 (2007) RR


User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1915 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3920 times:



Quoting PM (Reply 18):
If anyone is curious, nine planes off this production line have so far been written off.

And for those even more curious, the causes of the w/o:

msn 10 A340-200 (1994) CFM - pump fire during maintenance @ CDG
msn 36 A340-300 (2001) CFM - act of war @ CMB
msn 42 A330-300 (1994) PW - act of war @ CMB
msn 68 A330-300 (2000) PW - w/o due to corrosion caused by cargo
msn 289 A340-300 (2005) CFM - runway overrun and fire @ YYZ
msn 336 A330-200 (2001) RR - act of war @ CMB
msn 341 A330-200 (2001) RR - act of war @ CMB
msn 731 A340-600 (2007) RR - runway overrun @ UIO
msn 856 A340-600 (2007) RR - infamous engines test @ TLS


User currently offlineOvercast From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3886 times:



Quoting Breiz (Reply 19):
msn 42 A330-300 (1994) PW - act of war @ CMB

I thought this one was at Toulouse, during engine flight tests..


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3884 times:



Quoting Runway23 (Reply 9):
In any case it will be funny to see how Airbus spins this...

Spins what?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 16):
The A-330 has to much compitition now

If I may ask, where is this "too much competion" which you state the A330 has now, or what is competing with it on any sort of equal footing?


User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1915 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3778 times:



Quoting Overcast (Reply 20):
Quoting Breiz (Reply 19):
msn 42 A330-300 (1994) PW - act of war @ CMB

I thought this one was at Toulouse, during engine flight tests..

Absolutely correct. Crash at low speed, high angle. A monument commemorates the accident. My bad.


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3384 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3614 times:



Quoting Ivo (Reply 8):
Airlinerlist.com shows an A340-542 c/n 1091 for Air Ukraine ?
I did't now about this order.

Some more info please??


Ivo

I wonder if this one was supposed to go to IT and is another reallocation?


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