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Singapore's A380 To LAX And SFO, When?  
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11182 times:

Anybody know a more definete date for SQ's A380 flights to LAX and SFO???

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11137 times:

To be honest, I don't think that either SFO or LAX will be in the near term. The yields to/from both SFO and LAX aren't all that great. So, it becomes a matter of trying to maximize revenue. LHR is certainly capable of supporting 3 daily 380 flights so I would not be surprised to see that occur before LAX and SFO. SIN-HKG-SFO is scheduled to be downsized to a 77W from the current 744, so I think that is a good indication of what's happened to the yields. Add in the current financial climate and you can see why I think it will be a while.

User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8321 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11042 times:
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SQ Flights 1/2 to SFO from HKG were to be A380 by the time trhe 6th A380 arrived, that changed to an 77W. LHR seems to be the priority for SQ's A380, so until all 3 daily LHR flights operate with teh planes other cities have to wait. FRA would be the second important European city. Then either SIN - NRT-LAX & SIN-HKG-SFO are next in line. More A380 flights to Australia will occur.

User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2070 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10791 times:



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 1):
SIN-HKG-SFO is scheduled to be downsized to a 77W from the current 744, so I think that is a good indication of what's happened to the yields.

It really is not a good indication. SQ is getting rid of their 744s and all their 744s will be gone over the next two years. The 77W offers a far superior product in the front cabins than their 744s.

It is true they are loosing 4 (p) and 8(y) class but the fares are higher on the 77W than the 744.



John@SFO
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9168 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10719 times:

Will they exercise the options for their remaining 6 A 380s eventually? Or even more? I suppose so right?

They can upgrade their B 747-400s if they want but they will be gone by 2012 from what I heard?


User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10627 times:



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 1):
To be honest, I don't think that either SFO or LAX will be in the near term. The yields to/from both SFO and LAX aren't all that great. So, it becomes a matter of trying to maximize revenue. LHR is certainly capable of supporting 3 daily 380 flights so I would not be surprised to see that occur before LAX and SFO. SIN-HKG-SFO is scheduled to be downsized to a 77W from the current 744, so I think that is a good indication of what's happened to the yields. Add in the current financial climate and you can see why I think it will be a while.

Well not sure about San Francisco and New York, but in the US, I'm 100% sure we'll see SQ send the A380 to Los Angeles. No doubt about that


User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10599 times:



Quoting United Airline (Reply 4):
Will they exercise the options for their remaining 6 A 380s eventually? Or even more? I suppose so right?

It depends - if it looks like the long-term outlook is not for as much growth - more 77Ws will be in order (as we are seeing 744 routes move to 77Ws), however if growth turns back on - then we could see more A380s to replace 744s. It depends.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10566 times:



Quoting Legacyins (Reply 3):
It is true they are loosing 4 (p) and 8(y) class but the fares are higher on the 77W than the 744

Really??? Have you checked lately? When the 77W and 380 were introduced, they were. However they are the same now!

Quoting Juventus (Reply 5):
Well not sure about San Francisco and New York, but in the US, I'm 100% sure we'll see SQ send the A380 to Los Angeles. No doubt about that

Pardon my sarcasm, but if you're so sure why do you ask? I never said never, but it will be a while. I could see LAX, like SFO going to a 77W until there is a significant improvement on yields. The NRT-LAX market is fairly saturated and there is considerable downward pressure on yields. To be honest, the 380 is really too much capacity on both routes right now.


User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 10529 times:



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 7):
Pardon my sarcasm, but if you're so sure why do you ask? I never said never

I'm asking about the DATE ( as the title says). Maybe there been a definety date that I wasn't aware of. I did a search, found answers like "early 2009" or 'mid 2009".


User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 10454 times:



Quoting Juventus (Reply 8):
I'm asking about the DATE ( as the title says). Maybe there been a definety date that I wasn't aware of. I did a search, found answers like "early 2009" or 'mid 2009".

As I tried to say, there has been no word internally. Speculation is that both LA and SFO will go to the 77W and some European destination will get the 380. Again, there has been no official word within Flight Ops.


User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 10400 times:



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 9):
As I tried to say, there has been no word internally. Speculation is that both LA and SFO will go to the 77W and some European destination will get the 380. Again, there has been no official word within Flight Ops.

Thanx, that's what I was looking for ("nothing official yet")....... I was affraid something had been announced and I missed it.


User currently offlineThe Coachman From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1428 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 10315 times:

Slightly off topic but alluded to within this thread - I have heard whispers of MEL getting a 380 soon after the 2nd European city (which one would assume would be FRA).

I think a 2nd A380 will be in order in SYD, possibly on the midnight departure from SIN and the midday departure from SYD. The early morning departure from SYD is not as popular from what I have heard (though I must admit that my source is a little sketchy) and it requires an aircraft to overnight in SYD. When the 744 goes, possibly could go 77W?

Too many premium pax to warrant putting a normal 773 on it IMHO.

On another note, how has the 0700 departure SIN-SYD and vv been performing (the only 77W flight to SYD at the moment 5x weekly)? My source hasn't been able to glean anything about this.



M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2070 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 10282 times:



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 7):
Really??? Have you checked lately?

Yes, about three minutes ago. Two dirrefent aircraft going to the same destination on the same date. It shows a difference of about $700 UDS. Compliments of SQ.


SQ1/2

Business Class
(B747-400)
San Francisco(SFO)
00:05 Hong Kong (HKG)
06:55 (22 Dec)

SQ1

Business Class
(B747-400)
Hong Kong(HKG)
08:00 Singapore (SIN)
11:50 (22 Dec)


TOTAL PRICE USD 7,163.60
Fare for 1 Adult: USD 6,730.00
Taxes & Surcharges: USD 433.60
Total Fare: USD 7,163.60


SQ16/15

Business Class
(B777-300ER)
Singapore (SIN)
09:15 Seoul (ICN)
16:35

SQ15

Business Class
(B777-300ER)
Seoul(ICN)
19:25 Singapore (SIN)
01:05 (23 Dec)



TOTAL PRICE USD 7,879.60
Fare for 1 Adult: USD 7,446.00
Taxes & Surcharges: USD 433.60
Total Fare: USD 7,879.60



John@SFO
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10220 times:



Quoting Legacyins (Reply 12):

Yes, about three minutes ago. Two dirrefent aircraft going to the same destination on the same date. It shows a difference of about $700 UDS. Compliments of SQ.

But, it's like comparing apples to oranges. The true test is over the same route. When the 380 and 77W were first introduced, there was a premium, but that has been eliminated.

I just checked LHR-SIN-LHR departing 11 Dec rtn 19 Dec. The fare is exactly the same on a 380 or 744
TOTAL PRICE GBP 3,604.00
Fare for 1 Adult: GBP 3,351.00
Airport/Government Taxes GBP 108.80
Carrier Surcharges GBP 144.20
TOTAL : GBP 3,604.00

Again, equipment makes no difference.


User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2070 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 9933 times:



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 13):
The true test is over the same route

Ok, we will use your little example over the same route.


On 1/05/09. SQ 1/2 on a 744 will cost you:

TOTAL PRICE USD 7,163.60
Fare for 1 Adult: USD 6,730.00
Taxes & Surcharges: USD 433.60
Total Fare: USD 7,163.60


On 1/16/09. SQ 1/2 on a 77W will cost you:

TOTAL PRICE USD 7,879.60
Fare for 1 Adult: USD 7,446.00
Taxes & Surcharges: USD 433.60
Total Fare: USD 7,879.60

Same route but an increase of $700 UDS in Y in less than 2 weeks.



John@SFO
User currently offlineThe Coachman From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1428 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9361 times:



Quoting Legacyins (Reply 14):
Ok, we will use your little example over the same route.


On 1/05/09. SQ 1/2 on a 744 will cost you:

TOTAL PRICE USD 7,163.60
Fare for 1 Adult: USD 6,730.00
Taxes & Surcharges: USD 433.60
Total Fare: USD 7,163.60


On 1/16/09. SQ 1/2 on a 77W will cost you:

TOTAL PRICE USD 7,879.60
Fare for 1 Adult: USD 7,446.00
Taxes & Surcharges: USD 433.60
Total Fare: USD 7,879.60

Same route but an increase of $700 UDS in Y in less than 2 weeks.

You do realise that the difference between the 01/05 and 01/16 means a difference in shoulder and high season fares do you not?



M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2070 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 9230 times:



Quoting The Coachman (Reply 15):
You do realise that the difference between the 01/05 and 01/16 means a difference in shoulder and high season fares do you not?

Yes, I am quite familiar. So, the last flight for the 744 on SQ1 is 1/13/09 and the first flight for the 77W is 1/14/09. The price difference between a flight on the 744 is still $700 less than on the 77W one day later. So, whether if it is one day or ten days, the price increased by $700.



John@SFO
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8002 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 9205 times:

I still think SQ will put the A380-800 on the SQ001/SQ002 route some time in 2009. The reason is simple: there is a huge population of Hong Kong expatriates living in northern California (that includes me! Big grin ), and many of them travel to and from Hong Kong from San Francisco extensively almost year-round.

User currently offlineThe Coachman From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1428 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 8715 times:



Quoting RayChuang (Reply 17):
I still think SQ will put the A380-800 on the SQ001/SQ002 route some time in 2009. The reason is simple: there is a huge population of Hong Kong expatriates living in northern California (that includes me! ), and many of them travel to and from Hong Kong from San Francisco extensively almost year-round.

Why do you keep pushing this SQ is performing fantastically on SIN-HKG-SFO vv wheelbarrow? They're not. Yields have been torpedoed with too much capacity on the route. SQ would have kept the 744 on the route had there been sufficient demand. But no, they've gone to 777-300ER.

Quoting Legacyins (Reply 16):
Yes, I am quite familiar. So, the last flight for the 744 on SQ1 is 1/13/09 and the first flight for the 77W is 1/14/09. The price difference between a flight on the 744 is still $700 less than on the 77W one day later. So, whether if it is one day or ten days, the price increased by $700.

No, I don't think you understand. The difference in fares between shoulder and high season can often be $700 - there has to be a changeover date. I can book at the same lower price if I fly the 744 HKG-SFO and the 77W SFO-HKG - so product is not the reason. It is about the season.

In any case, your statement that a move to the 77W is purely about the product and does not reflect on yields is not true because, if an A380 was on that route, do you think the price would be $USD7800? No, because do you think SQ could really sell 60J class seats at $7,800?



M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 8632 times:



Quoting Legacyins (Reply 14):
Ok, we will use your little example over the same route.

Again, you need to use the same route, same day. Just as I did on the LHR-SIN-LHR route, if you do that you will see there is no premium charged. Looking at any two different days could result in different prices.


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8988 posts, RR: 75
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8496 times:



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 19):
Again, you need to use the same route, same day. Just as I did on the LHR-SIN-LHR route, if you do that you will see there is no premium charged. Looking at any two different days could result in different prices.

What we have noticed is the from outports where there is a local carrier on the same route SQ does not have a price differance, but if you look at the prices ex SIN, e.g. look at a route that you have the 77W, 744, and A380 on, like SIN-SYD, SQ does charge more on the 77W/A380 than what they do on the 744 for business. You also see it on the SIN-HKG sector on the 77W vs other 772/773 or the 744, in the reverse direction, they charge the same.

SQ also acharges more for "suites" on the A380 over F class on the 77W/744.

Only economy is consitant across fleets/direction of travel.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8314 times:



Quoting Zeke (Reply 20):
SQ also acharges more for "suites" on the A380 over F class on the 77W/744.

SQ's position is Suites is not a F fare but a R fare and as such it will be higher. It's the same as flying the Concorde and F on a 744. The fare basis and classes of travel aren't the same so, of course the fares will be different.

Quoting Zeke (Reply 20):
What we have noticed is the from outports where there is a local carrier on the same route SQ does not have a price differance, but if you look at the prices ex SIN, e.g. look at a route that you have the 77W, 744, and A380 on, like SIN-SYD, SQ does charge more on the 77W/A380 than what they do on the 744 for business. You also see it on the SIN-HKG sector on the 77W vs other 772/773 or the 744, in the reverse direction, they charge the same.

Again, checking SIN-LHR-SIN fJ Class a 10 Dec Departure and a 16 Dec return, it makes no difference.

TOTAL PRICE SGD 8,590.00
Fare for 1 Adult: SGD 8,000.00
Taxes & Surcharges: SGD 590.00
Total Fare: SGD 8,590.00
It makes no difference if you go via a 744 or 380, the fare is the same. While I will agree there is a slight variance if you look at SIN-HKG-SIN, the driving factor seems to be the time of day rather than the aircraft. Depending on the departure time, the prices seem to vary by about +/- S$300.

But, they did eliminate the "premium" once the 77W was in sufficient numbers in the system. There were too many issues (Read PPS complaints) about equipment substitutions and issues such as that.


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8253 times:

Three times a day to LHR i can see - I would expect FRA to get the A388 as well. They have a flight that continues to JFK IIRC and this will probably go A388 as well.

As for other European destinations - CDG? I dont see them sending it to ZRH or MXP yet though.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2952 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8198 times:



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 9):
Speculation is that both LA and SFO will go to the 77W

In that case, SQ11/12 will be 77W since SQ no longer flies SIN-TPE-LAX.
It will be nice to something other than 744s on that flight.


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8988 posts, RR: 75
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8049 times:



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 21):
Again, checking SIN-LHR-SIN fJ Class a 10 Dec Departure and a 16 Dec return, it makes no difference.

All prices in SGD

One way fares

Dec 10

SIN-SYD J class

744 - 4,448
77W - 4,735
A380 - 4,735

Dec 16

SYD-SIN

744 - 2,883
77W - 2,883
A380- 2,883

Return business fare (SIN-SYD-SIN) dep dec 10 return dec 16

744 - 5,403
77W - 6,403
A380 - 6,403

It does make a differance.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
25 PhilSquares : Trying not to make a mountain out of a very small ant hill, but 15 Dec is the high season and fares go up dramatically, especially ex-SIN. I don't ha
26 Zeke : Phil, I used the same dates as you used in your example in reply 21 to be consistent. Airlines do have staff that look at the fares that competitors
27 The Coachman : I've looked at SYD-SIN fares - and there is no difference in J class when you book a return fare ex-SYD - 744, 77W, 380...same fare. All on a particul
28 Zeke : As I said previously And the price comparison
29 ZK-NBT : CDG is quite likley I've heard after the third LHR service, for CDG they would operate daily replacing the 10 weekly 77W freeing up 3 77Ws of which 2
30 Juventus : This is all surprising to me. I was under the impression LAX (after LHR) was Singapore's most important international destination. You guys are saying
31 United Airline : So will FRA-JFK be kept? If they cut it then Moscow-Houston will be their only transatlantic route. I suppose SQ will go for more A 380s when the econ
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