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Turkish Airlines To Introduce First Class  
User currently offlineTKfan From Turkey, joined Oct 2007, 659 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 12353 times:

After the acquisition of Jet Airways 77W, Turkish Airlines wants to introduce F/C service.
They tried it once in the 90ies, but had to cut this due to economic reason.

We had discussed this on another thread, and now a reliable columnist on Hurriyet wrote about this:
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/yazarlar/10523457.asp?yazarid=41&gid=61

The first Airplanes will arrive on 15th December, dont know if they will be in service immediately. Turkish Airlines will keep Jet Airways configuration with 8 F/C-Suites. They work together with Do&Co their Catering Partner for the catering concept. Most likely they will have a Chef on every flight.

I thought the F/C demand would be to North America, but he wrote, initially they will be deployed to their Far Eastern destinations.

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2318 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 12128 times:



Quoting TKfan (Thread starter):
The first Airplanes will arrive on 15th December

Your talking about the 773ERs right? I can assume they are being painted into TK colors as we speak?



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17065 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 12103 times:

Interesting.

But if TK now will introduce F class, will they take down of Business class service to make a bigger difference between F and Business??



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineGokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1123 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 12035 times:

A poor decision by TK in my opinion. Have they studied this before and wanted to add First Class?, or they said what the heck the 777W's we are leasing already have them so why not.
TK doesn't have enough J seats that's their problem, its been said by TK management many times that the new wide-body order will have a config that has more J seats.
This also brings more clutter to already inconsistent TK J product. The 330's have the new J seats they are refurbishing the A340's to that standard which is great, then you bring a completely different product in to the mix. FF's will enjoy picking and choosing days of a week where the better J product is flying say IST-JFK
My disagreement is meaningless of course if TK is leasing these planes for a very short period of time and it doesn't pay to do the work inside the plane for that amount of time. If that's the case it begs the question why did they bring a new type to the fleet for that short period of time?



Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26949 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 12031 times:



Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 3):
A poor decision by TK in my opinion.

I agree and I dont really see the need for it . Hope Im wrong and it works for them but in this current climate it will be tough.


User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8535 posts, RR: 54
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 12024 times:
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Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 3):
if TK is leasing these planes for a very short period of time

- How long are the lease deals for?



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineGokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1123 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11978 times:



Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 5):

I don't know for sure and I have been trying to find out, I've heard 3 years(which would be extremely short) I'm sure someone here knows better.



Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17065 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11951 times:



Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 6):
I don't know for sure and I have been trying to find out, I've heard 3 years(which would be extremely short)

Well if it is only for three years, then I dont understand why TK want to introduce F class. Too much of a hassle



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineTKfan From Turkey, joined Oct 2007, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11689 times:



Quoting SXDFC (Reply 1):
Your talking about the 773ERs right? I can assume they are being painted into TK colors as we speak?

I dont think so, most probably the work will be done at Turkish Technic facilities as some interior changes if need, I guess as January and February are slow month, the birds will be ready for the next summer season.
But I'd love to see these beauties in TK colors as soon as possible  Wink

Quoting B747forever (Reply 2):
But if TK now will introduce F class, will they take down of Business class service to make a bigger difference between F and Business??

Theres not much to add, even the Business Class on Jet Airways Planes are better as TKs own B/C so theres not much to do.
The fact that the F/C has suites makes a lot difference to the existing B/C.

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 3):
A poor decision by TK in my opinion. Have they studied this before and wanted to add First Class?, or they said what the heck the 777W's we are leasing already have them so why not....
My disagreement is meaningless of course if TK is leasing these planes for a very short period of time and it doesn't pay to do the work inside the plane for that amount of time. If that's the case it begs the question why did they bring a new type to the fleet for that short period of time?

I dont think its a poor decision.
TK did indeed these studies to introduce First Class. Now as there are these Aircraft available and they have an excellent F-Product why not to test it now?

Now if the 77W has a better CASM compared to the 343 as it is claimed always, and they dont loose any seats, every sold F-Seat is an additional income.
TKs 343 has 34 B/C and 237 Y/C. The new 77W will have 8 F/C, 30 B/C and 274 Y/C, you do the math  Wink


User currently offlineGokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1123 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 11426 times:



Quoting TKfan (Reply 8):
TK did indeed these studies to introduce First Class. Now as there are these Aircraft available and they have an excellent F-Product why not to test it now?

Do you know for a fact or are you referring to the Hurriyet article? I'm just curious, I don't know if you work for TK.
My reasons behind the disagreement is first being inconsistency of product which I explained on my previous reply. Also;

Quoting TKfan (Reply 8):
Now if the 77W has a better CASM compared to the 343 as it is claimed always, and they dont loose any seats, every sold F-Seat is an additional income.
TKs 343 has 34 B/C and 237 Y/C. The new 77W will have 8 F/C, 30 B/C and 274 Y/C, you do the math Wink

Do the math you are decreasing the always overbooked J, in favor of a 1 Ton each F class seat that hasn't been successful for TK before, in a global economy that's in recession. Not the best time to try a new product. I simply think TK exec's saw the F suites got excited and said what the heck we'll keep em, unfortunately too many non-paying politicians will enjoy them the most.



Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4424 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 11315 times:

Well, I for one blow all my miles try to fly in one of those F seats if it was offered on the JFK-IST route. That is all.
In terms of business model it doesn't make sense.
TK doesn't need F class. TK should do more to improve its J product to the highest level first.


User currently offlineGokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1123 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 11270 times:



Quoting TK787 (Reply 10):
Well, I for one blow all my miles try to fly in one of those F seats if it was offered on the JFK-IST route. That is all.
In terms of business model it doesn't make sense.
TK doesn't need F class. TK should do more to improve its J product to the highest level first.

TK787 couldn't agree more, just like you said it doesn't make any sense. Improve your J product to highest level like a business first kind of product, have that consistently on all your long haul aircraft its as simple as that.



Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
User currently offlineAA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1245 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 11197 times:

I recently flew on TK and was far less than impressed. My flights were all regional or domestic, but it was still not that great. I had been told that it was one of the best flight experiences around, a sort of undiscovered jewel, but after my own travel I was sorely dissappointed. Having primarily travelled on US legacies and major European carriers, I shouldn't been surprised. It also became apparent to me after I spent a short period of time in Turkey, that the Turkish are a very proud people and think all things Turkish are the finest. The person who extolled the virtues of TK to me was a Turkish person. Needless to say, all the puzzle pieces fell into place after my trip...

All that to say, I think ANY improvement can't be that bad. I do have to say though, I can't remeber the last time I was served a full, hot meal on a 50 minute flight...



Sic 'em bears
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30908 posts, RR: 87
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 11185 times:
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I admit to not have been following this whole event in any great detail, but it sounds like 9W is trying to perform a short-term reduction in capacity whilst they stabilize themselves.

A three-year lease sounds short, but since it is a wet-lease (so the crews come, as well), that might very well be normal. And that it is a wet-lease and TK is not doing any modifications to the plane's interior might be a sign that 9W set these conditions as part of the deal because they expect to get those planes back and return them to revenue service with themselves once their own situation is sorted out and normalized.

As such, this might have made these planes not so attractive to some of "the usual suspects" who are either large 77W operators (SQ, CX) or new operators who need planes quickly (BA and VA) as both customers would want them for "the long haul", to excuse the pun.

If TK is desperate for immediate lift over the short-term and 9W is desperate for immediate cash, I can see how the two formed this deal to address each of their current, pressing needs until they have time to implement a more long-term process (TK getting other planes for long-term service and 9W taking their birds back).


User currently offlineGokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1123 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 11117 times:

Another thread says the lease is for 6 months???? What exactly is the deal for? If in fact its a short lease TK should/must leave the ac as is, hence the first class I guess.


Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4424 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 11080 times:

My understanding of the rumors so far;
-The lease is for 3 years;
-Wet lease (crews) is for 6 months.

After 6 months THY crews will take over for the remainder of the lease term.


User currently offlineTKfan From Turkey, joined Oct 2007, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 10824 times:



Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 9):
Do you know for a fact or are you referring to the Hurriyet article? I'm just curious, I don't know if you work for TK.
My reasons behind the disagreement is first being inconsistency of product which I explained on my previous reply. Also;

I am not working for Turkish Airlines, have my own business and it is not aviation related.
I am just a big fan of Aviation at all and especially Turkish Airlines, therefore I read every single news about them.
Have no link but either Karlitekin or Kotil mentioned this several times while TK was upgraded by Skytrax to 4 Stars they want to further improve their service. First Class, Premium Economy were the topics they were thinking of.

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 9):
Do the math you are decreasing the always overbooked J, in favor of a 1 Ton each F class seat that hasn't been successful for TK before, in a global economy that's in recession. Not the best time to try a new product. I simply think TK exec's saw the F suites got excited and said what the heck we'll keep em, unfortunately too many non-paying politicians will enjoy them the most.

If the J-Seats are full there will be still some F-Seats available.
Their trial in the 90ies was with the wrong plane (310) at a wrong time (first Gulf war, several political and economic crisis in Turkey plus not a real working network).
If you remember, TKs only longhaul flights with First-potential were to JFK, NRT, SIN all were operated with one-stop


User currently offlineCastropRauxel From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 10482 times:



Quoting Oa260 (Reply 4):
Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 3):
A poor decision by TK in my opinion.

I agree and I dont really see the need for it

I'm not that sure. if TK have done the field work and think they can sell F tickets; and if the aircraft are coming with suites anyway, why not give it a try? this is actually the smartest thing to do, instead of going and deciding that they will have F product on their network. this way they could test it and see how viable it is. plus don't forget that now TK is much stronger and appreciated than ever before - and as a STAR member, I think they could sell those seats even at this time.


User currently offlineTKfan From Turkey, joined Oct 2007, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10196 times:



Quoting CastropRauxel (Reply 17):
I'm not that sure. if TK have done the field work and think they can sell F tickets; and if the aircraft are coming with suites anyway, why not give it a try? this is actually the smartest thing to do, instead of going and deciding that they will have F product on their network. this way they could test it and see how viable it is. plus don't forget that now TK is much stronger and appreciated than ever before - and as a STAR member, I think they could sell those seats even at this time.

 checkmark  fully agree to your opinion

Now it is official; Turkish Airlines will wet-lease three 77W, two arriving on 15th December and the third on 15th January.
Wet-lease is for 6 month. Hope its like TK787 said before, the wet lease is for the crew and the birds will stay longer... wishful thinking


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8341 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9831 times:
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Quoting TKfan (Reply 16):
If the J-Seats are full there will be still some F-Seats available.
Their trial in the 90ies was with the wrong plane (310) at a wrong time (first Gulf war, several political and economic crisis in Turkey plus not a real working network).
If you remember, TKs only longhaul flights with First-potential were to JFK, NRT, SIN all were operated with one-stop

Turkey has grown lots economically since the Gulf War of 1990. First Class to Singapore, Tokyo and JFK with 77W is a great way to transition another airline from A343 to 777's. The good news is Istanbul is 13 to 14 hours from GRU, LAX and a little less to most of the Far East.


User currently offlineTKfan From Turkey, joined Oct 2007, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 9403 times:

Checked the timetables at Turkish Airlines, the B777 will be deployed to LHR, SIN and HKG in the initial phase with the inaugural flight on 29 Dec to Singapore...

Any lucky Guy flying one of these flights??  Wink

29DEC TK66 IST-SIN
30DEC TK1979 IST-LHR
30DEC TK70 IST-HKG
31DEC TK1979 IST-LHR
31DEC TK70 IST-HKG

01JAN TK1979 IST-LHR
01JAN TK66 IST-SIN
02JAN TK1979 IST-LHR
02JAN TK70 IST-HKG
03JAN TK1979 IST-LHR
03JAN TK70 IST-HKG
04JAN TK1979 IST-LHR
04JAN TK66 IST-SIN


User currently offlineBahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1779 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 9356 times:

TKFan,
looks like they are going to use the first aircraft for this schedule. I am sure some lucky souls in C class will experience the lounges in F. THY's website still gives the option of either economy or business. I am not sure what the seat buckets are in reservation systems.



Earthbound misfit I
User currently offlineTKfan From Turkey, joined Oct 2007, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 9314 times:

You are right Bahadir, checked the fares too, no First available. It was really a quick transaction, not enough time for any publicity, just few interviews...
As you have said, it seems some lucky souls in B/C will be upgraded in the initial phase.

I think when in mid/end January the third 77W arrives, next route to be upgraded is JFK for sure.


User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 9278 times:

If these are the 9W C seats, then those are obtusely heavy seats - and on a pound-for-pound basis - kick the heck out of C yields.

As for offering C - if they sell some C seats, that's candy for them, otherwise it's something to upgrade their super-FF affinity program members with - it helps build good will and loyalty with the most important customers. Everyone loves an upgrade, if you are buying a J seat and there is no C, where do you go?



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineBahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1779 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9228 times:

FlyDreamliner,
TK is in the market of attracting more transit traffic. That's how they are planning to excell. I am sure they can offer a scheme like 'buy a full C fare and get upgraded to suites' type of deal. All you have to do is to tell people serving the customer give them a special seat assignment.
For now the new class of service can be used to attract more people with full fares.
Looking at sidestep, one way LHR-HKG fare in C is $1700 with LH. TK charges $3000. On the other hand TK may bump the people up with full fare to the suites and retain these people for future F service. After all cheapest F class service is $4000.

It's not bad for TK to bump the people up to the next level. On the other hand, putting together a specific F class of service will be a major challenge for Turkish because of the known customer service issues that the airline faces to this date.



Earthbound misfit I
25 777way : This mentality seems to be the norm in many countries.
26 EmiratesLover : Can you imagine what a novel experience it will be...... A Turkish airline flying people from the four corners of the world with the Indian flag, Indi
27 Bahadir : EmiratesLover , don't want to rain on your parade of 'world peace and united nations' thing but i am sure there will be some turkish attendants on boa
28 TKfan : Now after a week in service, does anybody have information about the loads in F/C?? Its still not bookable through their website. Another question whi
29 Post contains links TKfan : After discussing for a month F/C with Turkish Airlines, we now have a glimpse how the service is like on it. Thank you OA260 for your wonderful TR!! h
30 Post contains links TKfan : I just reread an article in Turkish Airlines Inflight Magazine, there is a sentence I didnt take notice so much: sometime in November or December this
31 PP705 : Can't wait to see them
32 Post contains links TKfan : Couldnt find other sources/pics: Hatice Sultan Mansion Fehime Sultan Mansion unfortunately burned in 2002 Air view of both Both Mansions were built at
33 JAL : Interesting they decided to restart First Class just when the economy is going bad.
34 Gokmengs : Almost $400K a month to rent these "Yali"s and 15 million to renovate them. What are they planning to use them for? The article says Boutique Hotel's
35 LAXintl : Trust me this is just as much an experiment as a long term project for THY. The opportunity for a F-class product while previously conceptualized onl
36 TKfan : I think $400K is a bargain for the buildings in that area. TK is not going to rent/run it as an Airline, it will be done by their subsidiary Turkish
37 TKfan : Seems, the third 77W will enter the fleet next week, and TK not able to fly them to JFK. Can anyone explain what the problem is?? Turkey and the US ha
38 Post contains links TKfan : Turkish Airlines recently started a campaign to promote their First Class like they did some years ago with Business Class. If you fly with someone to
39 OA260 : Why was this? I saw a 9W 777W take off from LHR on Sunday , It looks better in TK livery IMHO.
40 TKfan : Dont know if they are not allowed, or they need the extra capacity to BKK. Three out of ten weekly flights to BKK are upgraded to a 77W.
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